Summer Transfer Thread and Gustavo Cisneros Type Rumours.

[Monty]

A 'front 6', with a flat four of McGinn, Luiz, Ward-Prowse and Buendia behind Tammy and Ollie finishes tenth, max. That's a crap system for all of these players, would inevitably end up defending and countering with long balls, forces square pegs into round holes and controls precisely 0 games.

[SamTheMouse]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset if we signed Tammy, he's a good player, but it's not a signing that would excite me. He probably wouldn't even be a regular starter in our system. 40 million on a back up striker is not where we are currently. If it is, we should be looking to sign Kane.

[PaulWinch again]

Ill be doing cartwheels of we sign tammy.

When was the last time we had two quality strikers at the club? Its been years

Gabby carew days?

You want to play a big-man-fast-man 4-4-2 with long balls? I mean, I kinda want to finish above 15th.

He’s not saying that is he? He’s saying that’s the last time we had two good strikers at the club.

[cdbearsfan]

Timo Werner who scored 78 in 127 games for RB Leipzig. Yes he had an increasingly comedic mare with Chelsea last season, but he's thoroughly done it at top division level.

Tammy was streaky, then the goals dried up, and he doesn't do anything else. Come on CD, don't do the 'my opinion is correct' stuff, I can see the goal record but I think there are a bunch of mitigations and I'm just not all that convinced all round.

A goal record isn't a matter of opinion, is it?

How you interpret it is. Darren Bent for instance, scored a bunch but whenever he played a full season his team would overall score fewer. You can't just take the name of the player next to the 'goal' figure and graft it onto another team by signing him. Football is alchemy, it's difficult to predict, and the evidence of my eyes tells me that Tammy scores some, misses more, and does nothing else.

I note as well that Werner cost £48m, not the £70m+ mentioned earlier.

Just getting a bit desperate now, he scores lots of goals, that's undeniable. Every striker misses some chances, they are judged first and foremost on their goal record and Abraham's is fantastic.

You seem to just be in a strop because you've decided Grealish is off, despite there being no evidence of that as yet. Maybe trust our owners as they haven't let us down yet?

Not sure why you keep bringing Werner up, I haven't mentioned him and have no opinion on his abilities.

[Toronto Villa]

He’s an England international who lost his place at Chelsea because they spent massively on two average German players. He’s also only 23 years old. You’d think he was 29 and on the way out by some of the comments about him. It’s amazing to think we were moments from bankruptcy three or so years ago and now having finished 11th, not 4th or 5th we can turn our nose up at a forward who has proven himself at this level. Ollie and Tammy can play as a lone striker or together in the right formation. Give him good service and he will score goals.

[Axl Rose]

Would love Tammy back. Sorry Monty!

[PaulWinch again]

I actually think Werner is a really good player, but Tammy is a different type of player. Tuchel wants to play a particular way and so Werner suits his system. It doesn’t mean Tammy isn’t bloody good.

[Toronto Villa]

Timo Werner who scored 78 in 127 games for RB Leipzig. Yes he had an increasingly comedic mare with Chelsea last season, but he's thoroughly done it at top division level.

Tammy was streaky, then the goals dried up, and he doesn't do anything else. Come on CD, don't do the 'my opinion is correct' stuff, I can see the goal record but I think there are a bunch of mitigations and I'm just not all that convinced all round.

A goal record isn't a matter of opinion, is it?

How you interpret it is. Darren Bent for instance, scored a bunch but whenever he played a full season his team would overall score fewer. You can't just take the name of the player next to the 'goal' figure and graft it onto another team by signing him. Football is alchemy, it's difficult to predict, and the evidence of my eyes tells me that Tammy scores some, misses more, and does nothing else.

I note as well that Werner cost £48m, not the £70m+ mentioned earlier.

Just getting a bit desperate now, he scores lots of goals, that's undeniable. Every striker misses some chances, they are judged first and foremost on their goal record and Abraham's is fantastic.

You seem to just be in a strop because you've decided Grealish is off, despite there being no evidence of that as yet. Maybe trust our owners as they haven't let us down yet?

Not sure why you keep bringing Werner up, I haven't mentioned him and have no opinion on his abilities.

And even if he goes, which we all agree would be massively shit the club isn’t going to shut down. We have a really good, young squad, a brilliant academy and we will reinvest the money on top of what we would already spent. It will be a kick in the bollocks but we’ll be fine. West Ham had a superb season and they don’t have any player remotely close to Jack. We need also to improve and compete at the top end without him. And if Dean Smith cannot do that we will hire someone who we hope can.

[SamTheMouse]

A 'front 6', with a flat four of McGinn, Luiz, Ward-Prowse and Buendia behind Tammy and Ollie finishes tenth, max. That's a crap system for all of these players, would inevitably end up defending and countering with long balls, forces square pegs into round holes and controls precisely 0 games.

Exactly. The key to football these days is control, which means possession and intelligent movement. Tuchel knows this, it's why he values Werner so highly. It's no longer your centre forward who gets all the goals. Look how many El Ghazi got, despite being frankly quite a mediocre player.

[Monty]

'Strop', good grief, I just think the goal record of a certain player is a touch illusory for certain reasons, I don't think he represents value for money, and I don't think he's the best option out there to go into our system. And it really doesn't matter at all mate - it's just another opinion, and learning to accept that other people have them is just, sort of, normal? Good luck to yous who like you some Tammy, if he comes in I hope you're right.

The Werner thing was in response to other comments a page or so back.

[DrGonzo]

Tammy vs Werner side thread?  I've just been through 5 pages of circular argument... yawn. 

[SoccerHQ]

Based on transfer fees, Man City's bench in their last game cost about £300 million. If we are going to get to their level we will have to have hugely expensive players not even guaranteed a starting place. Why not start now? Abraham has an excellent scoring record for Chelsea since returning from his loan spell, and had a brilliant goal rate for us, too. The idea that he doesn't is just bizarre revisionism.

We're getting there....Traore, El Ghazi, Sanson and Luiz all likely bench players next season....60m odd there.

I think Chelsea will let Tammy go for around 30m so don't think that's overprice at all...indeed for all the experience he has and age it's a pretty good deal in the modern game.

I mean we signed Wes for 20 odd million and he was limited to Belgian and Polish leagues and seems we stuck an extra 5m on the fee just to make sure he got a work permit.

[Toronto Villa]

'Strop', good grief, I just think the goal record of a certain player is a touch illusory for certain reasons, I don't think he represents value for money, and I don't think he's the best option out there to go into our system. And it really doesn't matter at all mate - it's just another opinion, and learning to accept that other people have them is just, sort of, normal? Good luck to yous who like you some Tammy, if he comes in I hope you're right.

The Werner thing was in response to other comments a page or so back.

But what system is that exactly? The system with Jack we look superb. Without him we are dreadful. We need to have players for different systems because even if Jack stays he will likely miss games. We cannot become a relegation team when he isn’t playing and need to have players and system that can adapt based on the circumstances.

[PaulWinch again]

I also think it’s dangerous to assume that top 4 clubs are always right in their assessment around whether a player is good enough. Look at examples where they’ve got it wrong - De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku, Pique etc.

[cdbearsfan]

'Strop', good grief, I just think the goal record of a certain player is a touch illusory for certain reasons, I don't think he represents value for money, and I don't think he's the best option out there to go into our system. And it really doesn't matter at all mate - it's just another opinion, and learning to accept that other people have them is just, sort of, normal? Good luck to yous who like you some Tammy, if he comes in I hope you're right.

The Werner thing was in response to other comments a page or so back.

We already managed to get a system that got the best out of McGinn, Grealish and Abraham when we had far inferior players around him. No reason why we couldn't do so with some of the talent we are acquiring. You said yourself attitudes may have been coloured by the "news" about Grealish so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume you might be in a bad mood having written off our chances of keeping him.

You're always on about having tactical flexibility (even extending to your disgraceful support of five at the back) so having the option to have two high scoring centre-forwards on the pitch at the same time when we need a goal is surely a good thing?

Fair enough re: Werner.