Gerard Houllier - the great imponderable

[Somniloquism]

Thought we finished 9th that season.

[curiousorange]

I've always thought there was a great deal of revisionism about that season because of the high points - finishing 9th and beating Man City, that mad United game etc. But the negatives loom large in my memory, like chanting "you're getting sacked in the morning" while losing to Sunderland and that bloody Liverpool game.  Maybe others saw in that side what I couldn't see, but I thought we were fairly meat and potatoes, and it seemed to be a half-fit Young wearing a plaster on his knee every game doing the heavy lifting.

Because of personal circumstances I have a lot of emotional investment in Houllier's time at the club so today's news gave me a little tweak in the stomach. But looking at it objectively, I don't think it would have worked for longer than we had him for. It was a panic signing, a shorthand to prove we still had some clout. But it was miles better than what we did next, when we didn't have to panic at all.

[SoccerHQ]

Young still scored the odd free kick and penalty but I never thought he was that effective in number 10 role compared to out wide. Downing outperformed him during the season so he's one who prefered the Houllier style to MON. Albrighton also did very well first half of the season before fading after xmas.

Still rather Young had stayed of course given what we replaced him with over the next few seasons.

[RamboandBruno]

I've always thought there was a great deal of revisionism about that season because of the high points - finishing 9th and beating Man City, that mad United game etc. But the negatives loom large in my memory, like chanting "you're getting sacked in the morning" while losing to Sunderland and that bloody Liverpool game.  Maybe others saw in that side what I couldn't see, but I thought we were fairly meat and potatoes, and it seemed to be a half-fit Young wearing a plaster on his knee every game doing the heavy lifting.

Because of personal circumstances I have a lot of emotional investment in Houllier's time at the club so today's news gave me a little tweak in the stomach. But looking at it objectively, I don't think it would have worked for longer than we had him for. It was a panic signing, a shorthand to prove we still had some clout. But it was miles better than what we did next, when we didn't have to panic at all.

Nothing against Houllier at all and feel for his family and all those who loved him in and out of football And he seems a really popular chap. I was just never convinced he really wanted to be at villa. It’s a long time ago and my memory maybe blurred by time, but seemed like there were a couple of faux pars on his part. I seem to remember him whimsically looking or touching the ‘This is Anfield’ sign when we played them up there. Nothing wrong with his heart being with Liverpool, but came across badly at the time. Also a very beatable Man City away in the cup, playing the second string, when a good couple of thousand villa had made The journey  up there on a freezing midweek night.

[Risso]

He'd been out of proper management for a while, and it showed.  And for all the talk of his Director of Football credentials, most of his later purchases at Liverpool were terrible, eg Diouf, Cheyrou, Diaou, Biscan etc.

[Proposition Joe]

The run we went on at the end of the season was Gregory-esque as I remember, and at the time I would have been happy for Houlier to go upstairs and Gary Mac to keep the manager's job.

[rob_bridge]

He'd been out of proper management for a while, and it showed.  And for all the talk of his Director of Football credentials, most of his later purchases at Liverpool were terrible, eg Diouf, Cheyrou, Diaou, Biscan etc.

Good lord that is one hell of list and not a good one.

[Dick Edwards]

When O'Neill walked out only days before the new season kicked off we were left in a difficult position. Given the situation, I think the Houllier appointment could have been a good punt. However, he didn't come in until October so had to get up to speed very very quickly which as time revealed was not ultimately good for his health.

[ez]

He was an unusual managerial appointment for us. We don't normally go for high achievers with cvs like his. I thought we were really stepping up by appointing him. There was still talk of champions league from the club and with a bit of fine tuning we would get into the top 4. Obviously that didn't happen. Bloody frustrating.

[curiousorange]

He'd been out of proper management for a while, and it showed.  And for all the talk of his Director of Football credentials, most of his later purchases at Liverpool were terrible, eg Diouf, Cheyrou, Diaou, Biscan etc.

Good lord that is one hell of list and not a good one.

There was a piece on The Athletic which popped up where Houllier admitted, at least with Diouf, that he'd been somewhat duped by a recommendation (Dioufed?). There's also been a story doing the rounds about confronting Paul Ince in training with an encyclopaedic knowledge of how many training ground games he'd lost, which is meant to prove he knew what he was talking about. To me that shows he had a good memory, not evidence he was a particularly gifted man manager.

[SoccerHQ]

The run we went on at the end of the season was Gregory-esque as I remember, and at the time I would have been happy for Houlier to go upstairs and Gary Mac to keep the manager's job.

It wasn't that good. Before the amazing two wins v Arsenal and Liverpool we'd lost at WBA (who had 10 men) and had home draws with Stoke and Wigan.

Did Gary Mac actually go and manage anyone else after he left us? I can recall him losing to a non league team in the cup when he was Leeds manager so it never really took off like people expected.

[curiousorange]

The run we went on at the end of the season was Gregory-esque as I remember, and at the time I would have been happy for Houlier to go upstairs and Gary Mac to keep the manager's job.

It wasn't that good. Before the amazing two wins v Arsenal and Liverpool we'd lost at WBA (who had 10 men) and had home draws with Stoke and Wigan.

Did Gary Mac actually go and manage anyone else after he left us? I can recall him losing to a non league team in the cup when he was Leeds manager so it never really took off like people expected.

I might be slightly wrong about this but I'd long thought we were more or less safe after Houllier's last game in charge when we beat West Ham in injury time. But looking at the fixtures McCallister took charge of we can't have been.

[West Derby Villan]

I've always thought there was a great deal of revisionism about that season because of the high points - finishing 9th and beating Man City, that mad United game etc. But the negatives loom large in my memory, like chanting "you're getting sacked in the morning" while losing to Sunderland and that bloody Liverpool game.  Maybe others saw in that side what I couldn't see, but I thought we were fairly meat and potatoes, and it seemed to be a half-fit Young wearing a plaster on his knee every game doing the heavy lifting.

Because of personal circumstances I have a lot of emotional investment in Houllier's time at the club so today's news gave me a little tweak in the stomach. But looking at it objectively, I don't think it would have worked for longer than we had him for. It was a panic signing, a shorthand to prove we still had some clout. But it was miles better than what we did next, when we didn't have to panic at all.

Nothing against Houllier at all and feel for his family and all those who loved him in and out of football And he seems a really popular chap. I was just never convinced he really wanted to be at villa. It’s a long time ago and my memory maybe blurred by time, but seemed like there were a couple of faux pars on his part. I seem to remember him whimsically looking or touching the ‘This is Anfield’ sign when we played them up there. Nothing wrong with his heart being with Liverpool, but came across badly at the time. Also a very beatable Man City away in the cup, playing the second string, when a good couple of thousand villa had made The journey  up there on a freezing midweek night.

Totally agree with all your points R&B

[robbo1874]

That last sentence is absolutely spot on - I wonder what would have happened if rather than his enforced retirement that Houllier had been able to move upstairs in some capacity and oversee structural change to the playing side that was sorely needed post-MON?  The 10 subsequent years might have been slightly easier to bear, but at least it finally feels like we have got back to the place where the structure of the club is solid and we have a manager who is looking beyond the end of each season.

I agree with your post Pat. I think if Gerard had moved into a DOF role and McAllister taken over management of the side it would have had a good chance of working out. Unfortunately for us we never got to see how it might have worked out. Could’ve possibly stopped the decline into oblivion. RIP Monsieur Houllier. What could’ve been eh?

[SoccerHQ]

The run we went on at the end of the season was Gregory-esque as I remember, and at the time I would have been happy for Houlier to go upstairs and Gary Mac to keep the manager's job.

It wasn't that good. Before the amazing two wins v Arsenal and Liverpool we'd lost at WBA (who had 10 men) and had home draws with Stoke and Wigan.

Did Gary Mac actually go and manage anyone else after he left us? I can recall him losing to a non league team in the cup when he was Leeds manager so it never really took off like people expected.

I might be slightly wrong about this but I'd long thought we were more or less safe after Houllier's last game in charge when we beat West Ham in injury time. But looking at the fixtures McCallister took charge of we can't have been.

SHA went down on 39 points that year so you really did need 40 points to be sure of safety . We had 42 points going into the final two games so it was still possible if very unlikely.