Summer transfer, gossip, speculation and the usual butter ollocks thread

[ktvillan]

Who's "demanding ruthlessness"?  I said I think he deserves chance at the second season, but that there is case to be argued for going for someone considered more likely to take us to the top if they were available and willing to come -  and that others have been ruthless enough to try that. 

As for Wall Street, well I wouldn't understate or dismiss the financial implications of such decisions.  It might just be Aston but Aston Villa is a multi million pound business in a multi billion pound industry practically built on pure greed.  And you really don't have to look too far for Gordon Gekko types in the game.   

[ASHTONVILLA]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs and narrowly avoiding relegation (both only via streaky late season runs) successful.

Leicester won the league after getting rid of Pearson, who had a near identical 'success' (promotion and scraping survival). Watford got rid of a promotion winner, Southampton, Spurs, Man City. Chelsea do it all the time and have often done better by doing so.

[Exeter 77]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs

Doing so when starting from so far behind the other contenders surely has to been seen as a success though.

[ASHTONVILLA]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs

Doing so when starting from so far behind the other contenders surely has to been seen as a success though.

Only if you also accept that it was in part his failure that we were so far behind.

[Drummond]

yet we are just making up the numbers at the moment and nothing suggests we believe we are capable of anything else
Well Leicester, Spurs , Man City did for various reasons

Other than signing lots of young up and coming players for the future. Recruiting a new DoF who has come from a very successful stint at another club. Recruiting a Premier League winning Coach who also has management experience. Apart from that, then no, I guess you're right.

[algy]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs and narrowly avoiding relegation (both only via streaky late season runs) successful.

Leicester won the league after getting rid of Pearson, who had a near identical 'success' (promotion and scraping survival). Watford got rid of a promotion winner, Southampton, Spurs, Man City. Chelsea do it all the time and have often done better by doing so.

I guess there's groups on either side of this argument who aren't likely to agree regardless of what the others say.

However, Villa were explicitly trying to cut costs (specifically the wage bill), comply with FFP which we were perilously close to breaching, and company rebuild a team the season we were promoted. What Dean & Suso have done so far is nothing short of miraculous, even with the few failures that have come with it. Of which, i don't think we've actually overpaid on any player we've brought except perhaps Kalinic. They've maybe not been particularly brilliant, but i doubt we'd lose money on many and probably sell most for at least as much, if not more, than we'd paid.

[dave.woodhall]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs and narrowly avoiding relegation (both only via streaky late season runs) successful.

Leicester won the league after getting rid of Pearson, who had a near identical 'success' (promotion and scraping survival). Watford got rid of a promotion winner, Southampton, Spurs, Man City. Chelsea do it all the time and have often done better by doing so.

Saying that Dean Smith's record over the past two years isn't successful and breaking records is lucky is stretching the facts to suit your argument almost to breaking point. He got promoted in his first season. He kept us up in his second. He did what was asked of him.

Leicester sacked Nigel Pearson for non-footballing reasons, Watford sacked a manager who'd got them promoted then had five replacements in four years, Southampton struck lucky once and the other three have been answered above.

[pauliewalnuts]

yet we are just making up the numbers at the moment and nothing suggests we believe we are capable of anything else
Well Leicester, Spurs , Man City did for various reasons

Other than signing lots of young up and coming players for the future. Recruiting a new DoF who has come from a very successful stint at another club. Recruiting a Premier League winning Coach who also has management experience. Apart from that, then no, I guess you're right.

The signing promising up and coming players is great. However we need to make sure we do not make the same mistake as last time we did that (the Veretout et al era) - you can not only] sign players of that type, you also need proven quality, because otherwise you find yourself relying on too many of those younger players at the same time, which is exactly what did for us in our relegation season.

Bringing through up and coming players is fine, relying on them all producing is a recipe for disaster.

[eamonn]

What is our ambition this season?

It's depressing to realise it but even top ten is bloody difficult without spending a shedload of money and/or a manager like Wilder who has the same steady core of players that he gets every drop of sweat from.

[Gareth]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs

Doing so when starting from so far behind the other contenders surely has to been seen as a success though.

Only if you also accept that it was in part his failure that we were so far behind.

Really....you blame a guy who took over in the October miles behind without a fit centre half to call on part of the failure?? That season he was an unequivocal success

Last season he has to take responsibility for the fact we nearly went down in the same way as he takes plaudits for us staying up but the long and short was he achieved his objective.

[pauliewalnuts]

What is our ambition this season?

It's depressing to realise it but even top ten is bloody difficult without spending a shedload of money and/or a manager like Wilder who has the same steady core of players that he gets every drop of sweat from.

I bet Sheffield United go down this season.

[Stu]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs and narrowly avoiding relegation (both only via streaky late season runs) successful.

What did the club expect Smith to do when he was appointed? If the brief was:

1: Get Villa promoted, then
2: Keep Villa up

...he has succeeded. What's more, we got to a cup final in between.

What did you expect of Villa last season? Bearing in mind we finished 18 points behind the champions, Norwich, in the promotion season, then finished 15 points ahead of them last season - and they went down. All the while, we had to buy almost an entire team.

[brontebilly]

Remind me again - how often has a club sacked a successful manager because a better one suddenly became available, and improved?

I'd hardly call scraping promotion via the playoffs

Doing so when starting from so far behind the other contenders surely has to been seen as a success though.

Only if you also accept that it was in part his failure that we were so far behind.

Really....you blame a guy who took over in the October miles behind without a fit centre half to call on part of the failure?? That season he was an unequivocal success

Last season he has to take responsibility for the fact we nearly went down in the same way as he takes plaudits for us staying up but the long and short was he achieved his objective.

He did....but let's be honest Dean Smith was very very lucky to have retained his job for the duration of the season. 35 points from 38 games was a very poor return and we are somewhat fortunate it was just enough to survive.

A bad run at the start of the upcoming season and Smith will be very much under pressure again. Hence the immediate need to strengthen the squad quickly with quality that can go straight into the first eleven. I don't think Smith will survive a bad start.

[Monty]

To be clear, I'm not in favour of sacking Smith, he has fulfilled his brief. I just don't really think I've ever been convinced he's got what it takes to make the club leap forward in the Premier League, as I don't think we've ever really looked like a team with a coherent plan or style or anything really.

[ktvillan]

I'd agree Smith has done everything that he was targeted with and that equates to success of a sort.  But the question remains as to whether he has what it takes to achieve higher level targets, i.e. get us competitive with the top half of the table for a start, and then push on from there.  As I said I have my doubts when you consider his tactical naivety and some piss poor performances at times last season but I think he's earned the chance to have a go with what he's done so far.  Hopefully with a better calibre of player on board.