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Author Topic: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?  (Read 560775 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5955 on: October 07, 2021, 09:54:12 AM »
It's not remotely ridiculous Dem, and it's a perfectly fair comparison. Both cases are examples of selfish behaviour that have the ability to cost other people their lives. In both cases, there's a very simple, easy solution that doesn't threaten other people in society, ie don't drink alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car, and have a very quick, mostly painless injection.

Online cdbearsfan

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5956 on: October 07, 2021, 10:08:07 AM »
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.

The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.

Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous.  What a imbecile klopp is.

What's different in principle?

Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.

I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple  people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.

If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid

This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?

You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.

The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/

(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).

How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?

This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?

Aye.

It's very simple, Demetri.

Whose rights are more important...

(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine

or

(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?

It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.

Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?

No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.

Im not agrguing your points im arguing that comparing them to drink driving is ridiculous

They're on a scale towards drink drivers, aren't they? Both put others' lives at risk by their own selfishness. I'm not sure why you refuse to place them together.

Offline Demitri_C

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5957 on: October 07, 2021, 10:16:18 AM »
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.

The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.

Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous.  What a imbecile klopp is.

What's different in principle?

Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.

I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple  people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.

If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid

This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?

You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.

The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/

(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).

How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?

This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?

Aye.

It's very simple, Demetri.

Whose rights are more important...

(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine

or

(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?

It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.

Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?

No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.

Im not agrguing your points im arguing that comparing them to drink driving is ridiculous

They're on a scale towards drink drivers, aren't they? Both put others' lives at risk by their own selfishness. I'm not sure why you refuse to place them together.

So we gonna compare them to murderers and rapists as well next?

For me its not the same. Drink driving is a dangerous choice. Its not selfish its just plain right stupid and idiotic

Offline Demitri_C

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5958 on: October 07, 2021, 10:18:51 AM »
I know one person who is terrified of needles but desperately wants a Pfizer/moderna in a form of a tablet. No not a anti vaxxer just scared of needles. Does that make her as bad as a drink driver?

Offline Risso

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5959 on: October 07, 2021, 10:19:24 AM »
"Drink driving is a dangerous choice. Its not selfish its just plain right stupid and idiotic"

So is not getting vaccinated, it's surely not that difficult a concept to grasp?

Offline Demitri_C

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5960 on: October 07, 2021, 10:24:22 AM »
It's not remotely ridiculous Dem, and it's a perfectly fair comparison. Both cases are examples of selfish behaviour that have the ability to cost other people their lives. In both cases, there's a very simple, easy solution that doesn't threaten other people in society, ie don't drink alcohol and get behind the wheel of a car, and have a very quick, mostly painless injection.


I think what the government needs to do mart to help with the unvaccinated problem is get unvaccinated people together and find out why they are not getting the vaccine. Open the forum for discussion to try educate them and ease their concerns to make them feel more positive about getting the vaccine.

Instead of people calling them every name  under the sun (not saying you just generally) which does nothing to make them get the vaccine. If anything makes them more resistant. 

They need to start with footballers like Robinson and Ronaldo people who look up to these players.

Online Lastfootstamper

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5961 on: October 07, 2021, 10:29:38 AM »
Robinson was asked why, and he declined to give his reasons. It's going to be difficult engaging in a dialogue if people won't open up as to why.

Offline Demitri_C

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5962 on: October 07, 2021, 10:33:03 AM »
Robinson was asked why, and he declined to give his reasons. It's going to be difficult engaging in a dialogue if people won't open up as to why.

True but in their line of profession thats not good enough for me. If wba are punishing for this then good for them.

Its funny though why they are not saying anything tk mega star like ronaldo.

Tbh we could kind of join the dots and figure out who hasnt been vaccinated. Any player that goes away for internationals to a non red country and is isolating for 10 days hasnt been jabbed

Online cdbearsfan

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5963 on: October 07, 2021, 12:57:53 PM »
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.

The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.

Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous.  What a imbecile klopp is.

What's different in principle?

Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.

I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple  people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.

If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid

This is very poor logic - you must see it, surely?

You say “if the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then I would say yes it’s massively reckless”.

The vaccine is very effective at stopping transmission - people are 3 times less likely to catch it after being double vaccinated:
 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/amp/

(And of those who catch it, they are less likely to have serious symptoms and therefore less likely to spread it).

How can you argue that not being vaccinated if it stopped transmission by 100% is massively reckless, but choosing not to be vaccinated to stop transmission by about 70% is of no benefit (you said it “just stops you getting seriously ill”?

This is not rocket science, the evidence is in the public domain if you want to check, the entire medical profession worldwide has pretty much a single view here, and yet you are perfectly happy coming on to forums and spouting opinionated nonsense that endangers lives?

Aye.

It's very simple, Demetri.

Whose rights are more important...

(i) vulnerable people who are unable to have the vaccine

or

(ii) idiots who believe nonsense that they read on Facebook and refuse to have the vaccine?

It should never be a "choice" for someone to increase the chances of someone else dying. That's why we have legislation to prevent drink driving and smoking in public.

Of course, not so high a percentage will die as would happen if everybody started drink driving. Nevertheless, if there is even one avoidable death which is caused by someone who refuses to have a vaccine, that's one too many, yeah?

No idea why you keep whiteknighting these arseholes. Selfishness is the most contemptible of human traits and there is no greater act of selfishness than feeling that your "freedom" is worth more than somebody else's life.

Im not agrguing your points im arguing that comparing them to drink driving is ridiculous

They're on a scale towards drink drivers, aren't they? Both put others' lives at risk by their own selfishness. I'm not sure why you refuse to place them together.

So we gonna compare them to murderers and rapists as well next?

For me its not the same. Drink driving is a dangerous choice. Its not selfish its just plain right stupid and idiotic

You're all over the place, here.

"Yeah, but rapists" is the best defence you can offer?

I explained why they should be compared to drink drivers, as did Risso. It really isn't that difficult to grasp.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5964 on: October 07, 2021, 01:55:19 PM »
Jürgen Klopp launched an attack on people who refuse coronavirus vaccinations by comparing them to drink-drivers and saying they are to blame if others catch Covid from them.

The Liverpool manager accused the anti-vaccination movement of ignoring the experts and endangering others while making disingenuous claims about a loss of freedom to justify their stance.

Comparing them to drink drivers is absolutely ridiculous.  What a imbecile klopp is.

What's different in principle?

Anti-vaxxers do something for selfish reasons that puts others at greater risk. Just like drink drivers.

I dont agree. Drink driving is reckless irresponsible and dangerous. You could kill multiple  people. A non vaccinated person who be someone who works from home, doesnt interact with many, takes a LFT before they see people. That is not the same for me at all.

If the vaccine 100% stopped passing on the virus then i woukd say yes its massively reckless but it doesnt just protects you from getting seriously ill from covid

Demitri, I don't think you're trolling but your insistence on ignoring facts and trotting out the same old stuff is incredible.

Just like a drunk driver, an unvaccinated person could also kill multiple people and LFTs do not prove you don't have covid.  They just flag up people who are asymptomatic would wouldn't otherwise be captured by testing.

This isn't opinion - it's medical fact you're choosing to ignore.

As for the 100% effectiveness argument you're clinging to, the vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing serious illness or death either.  So by your same logic of "it doesn't stop 100% of transmission so what's the point", it doesn't stop serious illness or death by 100% so presumably we should chuck the whole vaccination programme for covid, and pretty much every other vaccine, in the bin?  The covid vaccine efficacy is about as high as it gets - it's a borderline medical miracle how they developed something that's so effective, so quickly.  It's utter insanity to think it's a bad thing.

Don't you see how this makes no sense?

Offline Risso

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5965 on: October 07, 2021, 03:14:59 PM »
If somebody drinks and drives, most of the time they won't have a crash and kill somebody, but the chances of them doing so are very much greater than if they were sober.

If somebody has the covid vaccine, yes they can still get it and pass it on. But their chances of doing so are reduced, and their symptoms will be less severe. If their symptoms are less severe, then there's less chance of them ending up in hospital and taking NHS resources, and there's less chance of passing it on, because if they're not coughing their lungs up they're not ejecting higher viral loads more savagely.

If everybody took the decision to drink and drive, the numbers of deaths on the road would increase dramatically. If everybody took the same selfish decision not to have the vaccine, then deaths would be many times greater than they are at the moment, back in the several hundreds and thousands a day. There really is no good reason for the vast majority of people not to have the vaccine. "Personal choice" by itself is NOT a good reason.

Online UK Redsox

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5966 on: October 07, 2021, 03:37:03 PM »
If you’ve had the vaccine isn’t that your way of protect yourself?

There’s a huge proportion of people who will not have the vaccine because of their religious beliefs. That again has to be their choice. I’m not religious in any way and do not understand it and can’t think of any reason to have such faith in a higher being. But I can’t and won’t criticise those that choose to.

I will.......

A reason not to have the vaccine is if a reputable doctor says that it is dangerous for you.

Religion is not a valid excuse

Offline Risso

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5967 on: October 07, 2021, 03:50:45 PM »
I know some fairly devout Christians, Muslims and Sikhs, and they've all had the vaccine. Which religions exactly oppose having it? Even the Jehovah's Witnesses say to have the vaccine (they do think it's a portent of the End of Days, but whatever).

Online cdbearsfan

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5968 on: October 07, 2021, 04:16:31 PM »
Well, they've vaccinated people in/from Vatican City, Canterbury, Saudi Arabia, Israel, India, Utah and the Punjab so not sure which religion is supposed to be anti-vaccine. Sounds like another excuse for the "Fred on Facebook said his arm fell off" idiots.

Online UK Redsox

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Re: How much will Coronavirus (COVID-19) impact Aston Villa's season?
« Reply #5969 on: October 07, 2021, 04:37:22 PM »
Religions are just better organised versions of FOFSHAFF groups

 


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