Fans Worried Over Villa Future

[Toronto Villa]

I pray every day for this thread to die.

[dave shelley]

Amen to that.

[Lucky Eddie]

Are you ever going to show us the proof of this?

Perhaps my memory isn't quite what it used to be but having worked at the football grounds of Wigan, Hull, Derby and Swansea twenty odd years ago the point I'm trying to make is that even without the benefit of twenty years premiership income they and others have moved away from ram shackle grounds operating in some cases out of portacabins to compete with us commercially whilst we started the premiership era from the advantageous North Stand office complex which was undeniably one of the best in world football.


I don't think we've moved on at anything like an acceptable pace and we've been caught up commercially by clubs whom none of us historically would have considered worthy of competing with Aston Villa.

If I'm guilty of lacking in the figures to prove this as fact then I apologise, but I can't apologise for having retained the passion and belief that Aston Villa Football Club should think bigger. Guilty as charged; blame me Dad and William Mcgregor.

[dave.woodhall]

Are you ever going to show us the proof of this?

Perhaps my memory isn't quite what it used to be but having worked at the football grounds of Wigan, Hull, Derby and Swansea twenty odd years ago the point I'm trying to make is that even without the benefit of twenty years premiership income they and others have moved away from ram shackle grounds operating in some cases out of portacabins to compete with us commercially whilst we started the premiership era from the advantageous North Stand office complex which was undeniably one of the best in world football.


I don't think we've moved on at anything like an acceptable pace and we've been caught up commercially by clubs whom none of us historically would have considered worthy of competing with Aston Villa.

If I'm guilty of lacking in the figures to prove this as fact then I apologise, but I can't apologise for having retained the passion and belief that Aston Villa Football Club should think bigger. Guilty as charged; blame me Dad and William Mcgregor.

You mean that post-Taylor Report, clubs who had massive grants to rebuild their stadia actually did just that, and clubs who got promoted into the most commercially successful sports league in the world have made more money? Well I never..

And I know you haven't answered a single question or provided one iota of proof for your ever-incredulous claims, but where do you get the idea that in 1992 the North Stand offices were "undeniably one of the best in world football"?

[brian green]

A bit of magnanimity would go a long way here I think.

[AV82EC]

Are you ever going to show us the proof of this?

Perhaps my memory isn't quite what it used to be but having worked at the football grounds of Wigan, Hull, Derby and Swansea twenty odd years ago the point I'm trying to make is that even without the benefit of twenty years premiership income they and others have moved away from ram shackle grounds operating in some cases out of portacabins to compete with us commercially whilst we started the premiership era from the advantageous North Stand office complex which was undeniably one of the best in world football.


I don't think we've moved on at anything like an acceptable pace and we've been caught up commercially by clubs whom none of us historically would have considered worthy of competing with Aston Villa.

If I'm guilty of lacking in the figures to prove this as fact then I apologise, but I can't apologise for having retained the passion and belief that Aston Villa Football Club should think bigger. Guilty as charged; blame me Dad and William Mcgregor.

I'm going to agree and disagree here.  LE is quite right to state that we have fallen massively behind other clubs when it comes to Commercial income, any glance through the Deloitte rankings will tell you that, where it spells it out in a horrifying glare.  However his start point is a complete fallacy in saying we had a world class commercial operation a few years ago.  I'd say we possibly had that in the late 80's and possibly early 90s but were rapidly overtaken by clubs of a similar and comparable size throughout the next 25 years.  We've been playing catch up in the Lerner era but as Dave W has pointed out on numerous occasions the opportunity was lost in the mid/late 90's and early 00's.  And the blame for that can be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of one man, H D Ellis.

[john e]

Great job with the poll options whoever did them

[dave.woodhall]

Are you ever going to show us the proof of this?

Perhaps my memory isn't quite what it used to be but having worked at the football grounds of Wigan, Hull, Derby and Swansea twenty odd years ago the point I'm trying to make is that even without the benefit of twenty years premiership income they and others have moved away from ram shackle grounds operating in some cases out of portacabins to compete with us commercially whilst we started the premiership era from the advantageous North Stand office complex which was undeniably one of the best in world football.


I don't think we've moved on at anything like an acceptable pace and we've been caught up commercially by clubs whom none of us historically would have considered worthy of competing with Aston Villa.

If I'm guilty of lacking in the figures to prove this as fact then I apologise, but I can't apologise for having retained the passion and belief that Aston Villa Football Club should think bigger. Guilty as charged; blame me Dad and William Mcgregor.

I'm going to agree and disagree here.  LE is quite right to state that we have fallen massively behind other clubs when it comes to Commercial income, any glance through the Deloitte rankings will tell you that, where it spells it out in a horrifying glare.  However his start point is a complete fallacy in saying we had a world class commercial operation a few years ago.  I'd say we possibly had that in the late 80's and possibly early 90s but were rapidly overtaken by clubs of a similar and comparable size throughout the next 25 years.  We've been playing catch up in the Lerner era but as Dave W has pointed out on numerous occasions the opportunity was lost in the mid/late 90's and early 00's.  And the blame for that can be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of one man, H D Ellis.

It's been embarrassingly bad since Tony Stephens departed in 1986. Never mind Steve Stride, there was one man who should have been manacled to his desk and never allowed to leave. He went to Wembley, turned that round, then became an agent and hand-picked the best English players of the nineties.

[AV82EC]

Are you ever going to show us the proof of this?

Perhaps my memory isn't quite what it used to be but having worked at the football grounds of Wigan, Hull, Derby and Swansea twenty odd years ago the point I'm trying to make is that even without the benefit of twenty years premiership income they and others have moved away from ram shackle grounds operating in some cases out of portacabins to compete with us commercially whilst we started the premiership era from the advantageous North Stand office complex which was undeniably one of the best in world football.


I don't think we've moved on at anything like an acceptable pace and we've been caught up commercially by clubs whom none of us historically would have considered worthy of competing with Aston Villa.

If I'm guilty of lacking in the figures to prove this as fact then I apologise, but I can't apologise for having retained the passion and belief that Aston Villa Football Club should think bigger. Guilty as charged; blame me Dad and William Mcgregor.

I'm going to agree and disagree here.  LE is quite right to state that we have fallen massively behind other clubs when it comes to Commercial income, any glance through the Deloitte rankings will tell you that, where it spells it out in a horrifying glare.  However his start point is a complete fallacy in saying we had a world class commercial operation a few years ago.  I'd say we possibly had that in the late 80's and possibly early 90s but were rapidly overtaken by clubs of a similar and comparable size throughout the next 25 years.  We've been playing catch up in the Lerner era but as Dave W has pointed out on numerous occasions the opportunity was lost in the mid/late 90's and early 00's.  And the blame for that can be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of one man, H D Ellis.

It's been embarrassingly bad since Tony Stephens departed in 1986. Never mind Steve Stride, there was one man who should have been manacled to his desk and never allowed to leave. He went to Wembley, turned that round, then became an agent and hand-picked the best English players of the nineties.

Just googled him and see what you mean Dave!! Can we get him back?!! I wonder why he left.......

[dave.woodhall]

Are you ever going to show us the proof of this?

Perhaps my memory isn't quite what it used to be but having worked at the football grounds of Wigan, Hull, Derby and Swansea twenty odd years ago the point I'm trying to make is that even without the benefit of twenty years premiership income they and others have moved away from ram shackle grounds operating in some cases out of portacabins to compete with us commercially whilst we started the premiership era from the advantageous North Stand office complex which was undeniably one of the best in world football.


I don't think we've moved on at anything like an acceptable pace and we've been caught up commercially by clubs whom none of us historically would have considered worthy of competing with Aston Villa.

If I'm guilty of lacking in the figures to prove this as fact then I apologise, but I can't apologise for having retained the passion and belief that Aston Villa Football Club should think bigger. Guilty as charged; blame me Dad and William Mcgregor.

I'm going to agree and disagree here.  LE is quite right to state that we have fallen massively behind other clubs when it comes to Commercial income, any glance through the Deloitte rankings will tell you that, where it spells it out in a horrifying glare.  However his start point is a complete fallacy in saying we had a world class commercial operation a few years ago.  I'd say we possibly had that in the late 80's and possibly early 90s but were rapidly overtaken by clubs of a similar and comparable size throughout the next 25 years.  We've been playing catch up in the Lerner era but as Dave W has pointed out on numerous occasions the opportunity was lost in the mid/late 90's and early 00's.  And the blame for that can be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of one man, H D Ellis.

It's been embarrassingly bad since Tony Stephens departed in 1986. Never mind Steve Stride, there was one man who should have been manacled to his desk and never allowed to leave. He went to Wembley, turned that round, then became an agent and hand-picked the best English players of the nineties.

Just googled him and see what you mean Dave!! Can we get him back?!! I wonder why he left.......

You know that last phrase on your previous post?

[pauliewalnuts]

Great job with the poll options whoever did them

*tips hat*

[KevinGage]

To quote two men who know (or in one case knew) more than any of us could ever hope to:

"Villa have done well to still be regarded as a big club on the back of one FA Cup, one league title and one European trophy in eighty years" - Terry Weir.

"In all my time watching the Villa we've never filled the ground regularly" - John Russell.

Why are the five League Cups omitted in that argument?

One League, One FA Cup a European Cup (and Super Cup) + 5 League Cup wins still puts us far ahead of the vast majority of English clubs even if we were to do a completely arbitrary thing like discount the first 40-60 years of our existence (and why would we want to do a crazy thing like that).

[AV82EC]

Are you ever going to show us the proof of this?

Perhaps my memory isn't quite what it used to be but having worked at the football grounds of Wigan, Hull, Derby and Swansea twenty odd years ago the point I'm trying to make is that even without the benefit of twenty years premiership income they and others have moved away from ram shackle grounds operating in some cases out of portacabins to compete with us commercially whilst we started the premiership era from the advantageous North Stand office complex which was undeniably one of the best in world football.


I don't think we've moved on at anything like an acceptable pace and we've been caught up commercially by clubs whom none of us historically would have considered worthy of competing with Aston Villa.

If I'm guilty of lacking in the figures to prove this as fact then I apologise, but I can't apologise for having retained the passion and belief that Aston Villa Football Club should think bigger. Guilty as charged; blame me Dad and William Mcgregor.

I'm going to agree and disagree here.  LE is quite right to state that we have fallen massively behind other clubs when it comes to Commercial income, any glance through the Deloitte rankings will tell you that, where it spells it out in a horrifying glare.  However his start point is a complete fallacy in saying we had a world class commercial operation a few years ago.  I'd say we possibly had that in the late 80's and possibly early 90s but were rapidly overtaken by clubs of a similar and comparable size throughout the next 25 years.  We've been playing catch up in the Lerner era but as Dave W has pointed out on numerous occasions the opportunity was lost in the mid/late 90's and early 00's.  And the blame for that can be laid fairly and squarely at the feet of one man, H D Ellis.

It's been embarrassingly bad since Tony Stephens departed in 1986. Never mind Steve Stride, there was one man who should have been manacled to his desk and never allowed to leave. He went to Wembley, turned that round, then became an agent and hand-picked the best English players of the nineties.

Just googled him and see what you mean Dave!! Can we get him back?!! I wonder why he left.......

You know that last phrase on your previous post?

I had a feeling you were going to say that. Those old phrases "big club run like a corner shop" "biggest club in the Midlands" and "Doug Ellis, master businessman" just spring to mind again.

Thinking this through though if we'd had a cross of HDE on the football side and RL on the off field/commercial side we might be in a better position. Shame they were both crap at the other bit.

[dave.woodhall]

To quote two men who know (or in one case knew) more than any of us could ever hope to:

"Villa have done well to still be regarded as a big club on the back of one FA Cup, one league title and one European trophy in eighty years" - Terry Weir.

"In all my time watching the Villa we've never filled the ground regularly" - John Russell.

Why are the five League Cups omitted in that argument?

One League, One FA Cup a European Cup (and Super Cup) + 5 League Cup wins still puts us far ahead of the vast majority of English clubs even if we were to do a completely arbitrary thing like discount the first 40-60 years of our existence (and why would we want to do a crazy thing like that).

Probably because they were/are of an age when the League Cup was an irrelevancy, as indeed it largely still is. The fact remains that over a large chunk of football history we've not done particularly well, yet we somehow expect to always be up there challenging. 

[KevinGage]

You can spin that both ways. 

Up until 2000 we had barely gone a decade without winning at least one major trophy.  Up until the 1970's we were still the most successful English side in the game, and we were level with Yanited and Arsenal for total trophies won well into the 1990's.

Small fry like Liverpool don't seen to have any shame in acclaiming the LC as a major trophy.   Chelsea have always attempted to win it too.  It is really only Man U (and relegation fodder like Wolves and, sad to say, ourselves in recent years) who have treated the thing with contempt by fielding weakened sides.