Fans Worried Over Villa Future

[Simon Page]

So we agree there is a plan after all?

I find the Ellis plan perfectly acceptable. It's the same one Man Utd and Arsenal used to such great effect. The difference is in the application. To completely succeed you need either luck and/or much better income. I think we'd agree that Villa failed to fully capitalise on the Premier League boom and the lack of competition anywhere in the Midlands. Hence it's not the plan that's wrong, but the application could be better.

The Leeds shit or bust method has so far only worked at Chelsea and that needed Abramovich. There's nothing wrong with wanting the two seasons Leeds enjoyed, but something very wrong with advocating it as a sensible business plan.

[ianrobo]

see and there is the big difference Simon and the heart of all these discussions.

The plan is simply NOT acceptable for a big club like us because the supporters demand far much. The orginal protests started when we were in the top 6 now you saying the plan is ok to keep us 10th.

Yes if you want to go back in history the last 10 years has been ok but I believe the club should be striving for the very top and we don't, thats why Elliss's reign will be remembered as unambitous and frankly boring.

[Simon Page]

Do you just skim read?

The plan works for the most successful clubs of the PL era. Therefore, we can extrapolate that the plan works. Indeed, four of the top six clubs in PL history utilise that exact same plan. So...

Man Utd: Worked through brilliant marketing of myth/legend coupled with luck of an exceptional youth crop.

Arsenal: Worked through brilliant marketing coupled with luck of Arsene's bargains coming good.

Liverpool: Failed (relatively) because of some poor purchases.

Villa: Failed (relatively) because of some poor purchases and not generating enough income.

Newcastle have combined good income generation with big debts (which seems to be what you're advocating but correct me if I'm wrong). Result, less success than Villa. Interestingly, Man Utd tried the same thing in the 80s and were moments away from being owned by Knighton once the banks got pissed off.

[dave.woodhall]

.

The plan is simply NOT acceptable for a big club like us because the supporters demand far much.

The big club with one title, one FA Cup and one European trophy in 85 years?

The big club that pre-Ellis's return had finished in the top four on a massive two occasions in te previous half a century? That big club?

Doug could have done better than he has, but let's not kid ouselves that we were Real Madrid before he arrived.

[ianrobo]

So Man Ure are different because they generate three times more money than us

Arsenal have been lucky wiith managers but now gone into debt by £200m

Liverpool are I believe £50m in debt (can anyone confirm this)

So none of them have the same policies because they all agressively market the club to increase revenue streams and thus afford players.

I am advocating debt Simon, all companies run an amount of leverage, anyone with a mortgage runs a debt based on future income.

It is a risk (and there's the key) but we could run a debt of £40m and afford it this releases the money for players to get us higher, generating  more money.

That is what all companiess do.

do you think DHL are buying Excel with cash ?

[OneIanTaylor]

In the last press release, VFC stated we have had "2 years of poor on-field performances"

Ok, last year wasn't great, but it could of been worse. And 03/04 was a great season which would of earned us Europe in a typical year!

[Simon Page]

Arsenal's debt is as a result of the stadium plan. At the minute it looks like biting them on the arse, but let's learn from Leeds and wait to see what happens.

Liverpool's debt is a new one to me. They have enjoyed the funding of Granada - which was like our frankly exceptional ntl deal only bigger.

£40m is around the market capital of the company. You'll forgive me if I don't take business advice from you?

[ianrobo]

Ok Dave so we have done fuck all for 80 years so what !!!

that should not meean we should think small we all know we could be a big club in all measures of what one is it is only people like Ellis who think being Birmingham's no.1 team that stops us.

[Chris Smith]

do you think DHL are buying Excel with cash ?

No, they are probabaly 'borrowing' a copy from work the same as everybody else.

[dave.woodhall]

Ok Dave so we have done fuck all for 80 years so what !!!

that should not meean we should think small we all know we could be a big club in all measures of what one is it is only people like Ellis who think being Birmingham's no.1 team that stops us.

So once Doug Ellis leaves, every day will be the first day of Spring. How, exactly?

[Risso]

So Doug's plan has been the same as Man Utd's and Arsenal's.  Apart from the bit about the brilliant marketing.  And the bit about appointing the right manager and sticking with them through thick and thin.  And the bit about having a decent board of directors all pulling together to take the club forwards. Ah yes, exactly the same

[Tony]

do you think DHL are buying Excel with cash ?

No, they are probabaly 'borrowing' a copy from work the same as everybody else.

I can use my work copy legally at home thank you very much!

[Tony]

Shouldn't or can't?

It clearly says "shouldn't" Tony!   ".....Except where it's in the best interests of the company."  

Well thank God Doug stayed on then, else we'd have very probably "done a Leeds."

So he can then, so what's the problem, why use personal insults about his age to try and make a point? That sort of personal abuse is counter productive, it undermines the good points made about the failings of Ellis' leadership.

[canadamatt]

So he can then, so what's the problem, why use personal insults about his age to try and make a point?

Running out of ideas obviously...

Next month he'll be too short and thus not fit to run Aston Villa.

Martin, can you clarify whether it's 6 or 7 for me?..just trying to tie up some loose ends.

[Risso]

Martin, can you clarify whether it's 6 or 7 for me?..just trying to tie up some loose ends.

In terms of contribution to this site I'd give you a 3.  You only seem to pipe up when there's a VFC thread.  STILL not got over your Villa Talk experience Matthew?