MOTD

[Percy McCarthy]

The idea of impartiality on the BBC is impossible to achieve. Clint Eastwood is a prominent republican, if one of his films is on should the BBC edit him out? People watching the BBC don’t know/care about the way those on screen I are employed either directly or indirectly (the Lineker vs Alan Sugar debate) so impartiality is difficult to apply there.

In my opinion the answer is simple - if you do a politics related show you can’t make your political views known in the show and all presenters should use private social media to say whatever they like and have a bbc branded account fir the programme related stuff (eg MOTD running order). The fact that the chair of the BBC isn’t impartial means he should stand down as it undermines the impartial ethos all together.

Finally I’d the BBC is impartial why dont we hear views on the Ukraine conflict from the Russian perspective? It’s selective impartiality they apply always to show the government positively.

Impartiality is only really important for the information services of the BBC. I think sometimes the BBC can get the balance wrong in its attempts to find balance by giving the alternative view an equal platform that is perhaps disproportionate to the balance of the argument. That's why I don't think there's any sincere criticism possible of the BBC position on Ukraine; last year it provided Putin's historical fatalism ideology as one of the motivating factors, there's not a great deal else to be said or a need for that unnatural and disproportionate balance.

In terms of the entertainment elements, if they're employees then I don't see why that impartiality needs to be particularly enforced. Lineker has his views on politics and the world and its not something, beyond Qatar perhaps, that he talks about of MotD when introducing a game or putting questions to Shrearer et al. It's just not relevant and doesn't come up.

His views on social media are what they are. Sincerely held, he clearly knows little to nothing about history (not surprising given he spent a good deal of his childhood with the market stall and watching his parents playing cards, while also playing football for hours on end) and probably isn't a resource anybody would use in a serious conversation. But then nor is he trying to be. He's a man with an audience and a lot of followers, so has more responsibility as a result, but that he's been catapulted into this position is more out of a desire for Culture Warriors on both sides to fight over entrenched positions on a very weird website.

The BBC seems very good at making itself the story at times.

You keep repeating this bit but I think you're misreading his post to get to that conclusion:

There is no huge influx. We take far fewer refugees than other major European countries. This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s, and I’m out of order?

that a 47 word post, not a thorough analysis of the rise of naziism in 1930s Germany.

He's correct that there is no huge influx.
He's correct on the number of refugees we take.
He's correct that the policy is cruel and directed at very vulnerable people.

So the entire point of contention that you keep going back to is "language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s" but you seem to be taking that in a specific way and inferring a lot more into it than you should be.

He didn't compare the government to Nazis.
He didn't say the policy was fascist.
He didn't claim refugees are being treated the same as jews were in the 30s.
He didn't imply in any way that this will lead to anything further.

He simply said the language isn't dissimilar to that of the time. That's a really fucking low bar, literally any document from 1930s Germany referring to Jews as a plague/invasion/animals/etc or as a problem the country needed to address urgently is enough to prove him right and finding examples like that doesn't take long.

Maybe he didn't have to make the comparison and maybe it can lead to misinformation amongst his followers but if that's a problem then it's no worse than the misinformation that is coming from the government about immigration.

Someone’s desperate to change the point of debate for some reason. And I don’t just mean the ‘outraged’ far-right MPs.

[Brazilian Villain]

I'm sorry but I'm not f**king happy about my favourite MOTD thread being turned in to the film review section. Do you think you're all Mark bastard Kermode? Every time I go on a thread nowadays people always end up harping on about how good the Godfather is, it's f**king tiring .

I think I'm in about the 0.01% of people who isn't bothered about the Godfather. Watched it once and just thought 'it was alright... wouldn't watch it again'. Just for a bit of that balance we all yearn for.

I genuinely hate pun fests though, they are a scourge on this forum and anyone participating should face lengthy bans. Bloody intolerant lefties, ay.

Mods, can we please ban this guy? I don't like what he's saying 😉

Don't you worry Rory, he'll soon be sleeping with the fishes.

[Brazilian Villain]

I’ve never seen the Godfather. Is that bad?

It’s not bad for you, I’m jealous.

Donnie Brasco is great as well, as are other true story ones - Goodfellas, Casino, Gotti (1996 HBO version - not the Travolta one). Witness to the Mob is underrated IMO. The last two are available on YouTube.

I'd add The Irishman, Carlito's Way and the epic Once Upon a Time in America to the must-see list.

[Baldy]

Leaving aside the issue of the tweets for a second, Lineker gets paid an enormous amount of money for a programme that only pulls in a couple of million viewers most weeks.

That figure shocked me as well. Thought it would be millions more (but I am an old fart). I guess the fact Lineker has been on it since 1999 he has seen a lot of wage increases!!

Needs to change its format. Show the highlights, have a panel of referees and former managers, have a comedy section (bit like SAS on 606 Podcast), chant of the week etc. Need to freshen it up a bit.

[Clark W Griswold]

I’ve never seen the Godfather. Is that bad?

It’s not bad for you, I’m jealous.

Donnie Brasco is great as well, as are other true story ones - Goodfellas, Casino, Gotti (1996 HBO version - not the Travolta one). Witness to the Mob is underrated IMO. The last two are available on YouTube.

I'd add The Irishman, Carlito's Way and the epic Once Upon a Time in America to the must-see list.

I think Goodfellas is the best of the lot, with GF1 and 2 very close behind.

[Percy McCarthy]

I’ve never seen the Godfather. Is that bad?

It’s not bad for you, I’m jealous.

Donnie Brasco is great as well, as are other true story ones - Goodfellas, Casino, Gotti (1996 HBO version - not the Travolta one). Witness to the Mob is underrated IMO. The last two are available on YouTube.

I'd add The Irishman, Carlito's Way and the epic Once Upon a Time in America to the must-see list.

The Irishman is good stylistically but loses marks from me for being a load of absolute bullshit.

I did enjoy Kill The Irishman though. Totally unrelated, the story of Danny Green. I suspect that you’d enjoy that one BV, he was very proud of his heritage.

[Percy McCarthy]

I’ve never seen the Godfather. Is that bad?

It’s not bad for you, I’m jealous.

Donnie Brasco is great as well, as are other true story ones - Goodfellas, Casino, Gotti (1996 HBO version - not the Travolta one). Witness to the Mob is underrated IMO. The last two are available on YouTube.

I'd add The Irishman, Carlito's Way and the epic Once Upon a Time in America to the must-see list.

I think Goodfellas is the best of the lot, with GF1 and 2 very close behind.

Listened to a podcast the other day about how the last $700k of Jimmy The Gent Burke’s Lufthansa money was kinda stolen off his daughters and frittered away by current mobsters.

[Ian.]

I think - inevitably - the way people 'consume' MOTD has changed - as a result of the fact that what we consider 'the media' is entirely different to what it was 20 years ago, let alone 50 or whatever it is since MOTD started.

You can watch pretty much every game live online, without too much hassle, you can see people posting the goals on twitter as they happen, you can see all the highlights from sky straight after the final whistle more or less. MOTD these days seems (for a lot of people) like more of a 'there's nothing else better on' thing rather than a weekly appointment as it was in the past.

I was thinking recently, that "and if you don't know the scores and are waiting for match of the day, walk away now" message that they STILL do on the news on Saturday is probably the most anachronistic thing on television.

Anyway, well done, Gary.

Also, with Peter Withe's Shin you get every Villa goal a whole 5 minutes before we actually score on TV.

Am I right in thinking he works in a Sky live broadcast van or something like that?

I just thought he was some kind of freaky Time Lord.

[Clark W Griswold]

I’ve never seen the Godfather. Is that bad?

It’s not bad for you, I’m jealous.

Donnie Brasco is great as well, as are other true story ones - Goodfellas, Casino, Gotti (1996 HBO version - not the Travolta one). Witness to the Mob is underrated IMO. The last two are available on YouTube.

I'd add The Irishman, Carlito's Way and the epic Once Upon a Time in America to the must-see list.

I think Goodfellas is the best of the lot, with GF1 and 2 very close behind.

Listened to a podcast the other day about how the last $700k of Jimmy The Gent Burke’s Lufthansa money was kinda stolen off his daughters and frittered away by current mobsters.

I was recently saddened to see that Ray Liotta had died last year, not very old and i was quite surprised to read that the other cast members including De Niro hadn't really had many dealings with him in the 30 plus years since. I always imagined they'd have been close after pulling off such a modern classic as that together.

I agree on The Irishman also, i did enjoy it but a lot was based on speculation rather than fact.

[Risso]

Leaving aside the issue of the tweets for a second, Lineker gets paid an enormous amount of money for a programme that only pulls in a couple of million viewers most weeks.

That figure shocked me as well. Thought it would be millions more (but I am an old fart). I guess the fact Lineker has been on it since 1999 he has seen a lot of wage increases!!

Not wages, as he very obviously isn't an employee and quite correctly offers his services as an independent contractor, which is in no way designed to avoid tax and national insurance contributions.

[Ads]

Someone’s desperate to change the point of debate for some reason.

Would you be able to explain how, as I don't agree, but would be curious to hear you out. I've deleted the bulk of it because I know that winds folks up when we get quote pyramids.

[Jon Crofts]

Leaving aside the issue of the tweets for a second, Lineker gets paid an enormous amount of money for a programme that only pulls in a couple of million viewers most weeks.

That figure shocked me as well. Thought it would be millions more (but I am an old fart). I guess the fact Lineker has been on it since 1999 he has seen a lot of wage increases!!

Not wages, as he very obviously isn't an employee and quite correctly offers his services as an independent contractor, which is in no way designed to avoid tax and national insurance contributions.

Is he still outside IR35? How the chuff does he manage that?

[TonyD]

Looks like he will be coming back.
Missed opportunity to change the guard. 

[Dave]

Someone’s desperate to change the point of debate for some reason.

Would you be able to explain how, as I don't agree, but would be curious to hear you out. I've deleted the bulk of it because I know that winds folks up when we get quote pyramids.

Actually, while I'm not saying that he can't, can I offer the moderatorly advice that he doesn't?

As I don't think it'll lead to an exchange that will make anybody feel better about things.

[Chris Smith]

Looks like he will be coming back.
Missed opportunity to change the guard. 

I don’t mind Lineker, he’s a presenter in the Des Lynam role rather than a pundit and does it pretty well. Shearer, Richards and the rest though I have no time for. It’s why I only ever watch it on catch-up so that I can fast forward through the crap.