Anyone starting to get worried?

[Luke8]

Dont get why we raised our game against spurs who are better than us but absolutely perform pathetically against Southampton. Had we performaed like we did against sours we probably could have got something.

West ham showed fight and were unlucky i want to see the samw from our players.

That’s the point though, we have seen it from our players. The same as I’m sure I could find plenty of games where West Ham have been woeful this season.

The reason we are where we are (and the same for teams around us) is that though we do have decent players we are no where near consistent enough with our performances. The best teams find that mentality/physicality etc. to produce great performances/results week after week, not just every few games.

[Mister E]

Dont get why we raised our game against spurs who are better than us but absolutely perform pathetically against Southampton. Had we performaed like we did against sours we probably could have got something.

West ham showed fight and were unlucky i want to see the samw from our players.

Poor management and motivation - we've seen it against a few of them other struggling teams.

[Drummond]

I used to work for a firm where the owner said he hired people on 1) attitude, 2) ability and 3) experience. In that order. I thought he was a bit of a twat because of that, initially. But they are quite successful, so I changed my thinking after a bit. Back to Southampton though and where were all 3 of those attributes?

It's a good way of doing things. Seems to be how Sheffield United are doing well, similar can be said if other clubs that are deemed to be punching.

We have had, over the years, got number 1 wrong haven't we? I don't think that's an issue with the vast majority of our squad now.

I think we have an issue with 2. There's potential but it needs to be realised. Jack is now flourishing but it's taken him a while to really consistently perform at the level he is. Whilst we don't have others operating at the same level, there's potential.

3 is the interesting one. We really haven't got much of it at all.

All in all, in my mind Number 1 is essential in every player. Number 2 is essential for a few and desirable in the rest. Number 3 is essential in some in the squad but not required in most.

You could put a scale together about where you think each of our players are and it would give a pretty good indication of why we are where we are.

I think that then comes back to recruitment.

[mallo]

Lets just imagine we survive by the skin of our teeth this season - what the hell are we going to do differently which leads to us actually competing next season?

[Legion]

Would rather have that scenario to worry about than being back in Division 2.

[Ugo]

Spam are a shit team for sure. My specific concerns are that they still look more likely to nick a result against big teams than us and that if it comes down to a last day head to head they’ve got more bottle across the team. I hope I’m wrong obviously.

I’d say the opposite is true.

We have run Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal very close this season and arguably should have picked up points from all three of those games. We also did manage to pick up points at Old Trafford. It is against the lesser teams where we have performed poorly.

I’d also be interested to hear who and why you think West Ham have more bottle and not just because of the last two games played by both teams.

[Risso]

West Ham are undeniably shit, seeing as they're in the bottom three and we're not, but they have beaten Man U and Chelsea this year, whilst we remain the ONLY team in the division not to have beaten one of the "big" teams.  In fact I think I'm right in saying that all of the teams we've beat in the league have been in the bottom half when we beat them.  Not a great omen for the rest of the season, since all but two of our remaining games are against top half teams.

[Ads]

West Ham are undeniably shit, seeing as they're in the bottom three and we're not, but they have beaten Man U and Chelsea this year, whilst we remain the ONLY team in the division not to have beaten one of the "big" teams.  In fact I think I'm right in saying that all of the teams we've beat in the league have been in the bottom half when we beat them.  Not a great omen for the rest of the season, since all but two of our remaining games are against top half teams.

What I think we've done more often than not is beat ourselves. And we're massive. So we have beaten a big team!

More seriously, I think we're far more prone to rank stupidity than anybody else and that's our biggest downfall.

[hilts_coolerking]

I'm worried because although we're not in the relegation zone, last night's game indicated how precarious that 1 point gap is.  It's only going to take one rogue result to turn things around.  That also goes for us obviously but getting those surprise results is something we've not done this season, apart from a solitary point at Old Trafford.  Yes we've had good performances against the better teams but we've got no points from them.  The stuff about only needing to beat the teams around you is now pretty irrelevant - we need to get points wherever we can and from whoever we can.

[themossman]

Spam are a shit team for sure. My specific concerns are that they still look more likely to nick a result against big teams than us and that if it comes down to a last day head to head they’ve got more bottle across the team. I hope I’m wrong obviously.

I’d say the opposite is true.

We have run Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal very close this season and arguably should have picked up points from all three of those games. We also did manage to pick up points at Old Trafford. It is against the lesser teams where we have performed poorly.

I’d also be interested to hear who and why you think West Ham have more bottle and not just because of the last two games played by both teams.

You've made my point for me there. Operative words are 'run close' and 'should have picked up points'. As Risso say, spam have actually picked up points in games against top half teams where they've managed to get ahead.

The second point is subjective I guess. We have showed bottle on occasion (Watford, Burnley, Leicester in the cup) and some players have it in buckets but for me too many players are capable of disappearing in the big 6 pointers against shit teams that fancy it more (Bournemouth, Southampton).

[Drummond]

West Ham are undeniably shit, seeing as they're in the bottom three and we're not, but they have beaten Man U and Chelsea this year, whilst we remain the ONLY team in the division not to have beaten one of the "big" teams.  In fact I think I'm right in saying that all of the teams we've beat in the league have been in the bottom half when we beat them.  Not a great omen for the rest of the season, since all but two of our remaining games are against top half teams.

It's true.

Moyes has never won at Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal or Chelsea, in all his time as a manager. So it's not just us that has bad records to break.

[Luke8]

Spam are a shit team for sure. My specific concerns are that they still look more likely to nick a result against big teams than us and that if it comes down to a last day head to head they’ve got more bottle across the team. I hope I’m wrong obviously.

I’d say the opposite is true.

We have run Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal very close this season and arguably should have picked up points from all three of those games. We also did manage to pick up points at Old Trafford. It is against the lesser teams where we have performed poorly.

I’d also be interested to hear who and why you think West Ham have more bottle and not just because of the last two games played by both teams.

You've made my point for me there. Operative words are 'run close' and 'should have picked up points'. As Risso say, spam have actually picked up points in games against top half teams where they've managed to get ahead.

The second point is subjective I guess. We have showed bottle on occasion (Watford, Burnley, Leicester in the cup) and some players have it in buckets but for me too many players are capable of disappearing in the big 6 pointers against shit teams that fancy it more (Bournemouth, Southampton).

The thing is, due to the inconsistency of about 17 teams in the league, you could go round and round in circles picking ‘example games’ to prove a point. West Ham have nicked a couple against the top teams but by virtue of still being below us have also been pretty abject against some bottom half ones.

You could also argue that our performances against some of the ‘better’ teams have merited more points whereas the close fought 1-0 victories that a few teams have nicked (eg. West Ham and Newcastle vs Chelsea), while showing those battling qualities, are less likely to be repeated/result in picking up points against these teams long term.

Also, just to reiterate my point about inconsistency, you could point to the victories over Burnley, Watford and possibly even Norwich at home as us showing fight/bottle/graft in big six pointer games.

[Demitri_C]

West Ham are undeniably shit, seeing as they're in the bottom three and we're not, but they have beaten Man U and Chelsea this year, whilst we remain the ONLY team in the division not to have beaten one of the "big" teams.  In fact I think I'm right in saying that all of the teams we've beat in the league have been in the bottom half when we beat them.  Not a great omen for the rest of the season, since all but two of our remaining games are against top half teams.

It's true.

Moyes has never won at Liverpool, ManU, Arsenal or Chelsea, in all his time as a manager. So it's not just us that has bad records to break.

Mcleish of all people won at chelaea and lambert at arsenal. God feels so long ago...

[tim]

Spam are a shit team for sure. My specific concerns are that they still look more likely to nick a result against big teams than us and that if it comes down to a last day head to head they’ve got more bottle across the team. I hope I’m wrong obviously.

I’d say the opposite is true.

We have run Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal very close this season and arguably should have picked up points from all three of those games. We also did manage to pick up points at Old Trafford. It is against the lesser teams where we have performed poorly.

I’d also be interested to hear who and why you think West Ham have more bottle and not just because of the last two games played by both teams.

Is it Villa running them close, or them 'lowering' themselves as they know that a lesser performance would be adequate. It's certainly possible the close call was down to Villa being good, but not necessarily... 

[Drummond]

I'm not worried. I think our future is secure. I know it's looking dicey for going back down again but if that happens I think we're far better prepared for it than last time.

I'd just rather not have to watch Grealish play for anyone else in English football.