Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: OzVilla on September 01, 2019, 07:29:19 AM

Title: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 01, 2019, 07:29:19 AM
So 10% of the season gone, played a top 4 side, a side looking to break into top 6 and 2 sides that youíd expect weíd be competing to stay up with. P4-W1-L3.

Weíve not had much luck but thatís still a disappointing return. We needed to get off to a good start, we havenít and at times weíve looked naive. So anybody starting to get worried yet?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mr underhill on September 01, 2019, 07:44:47 AM
Well it's not been a great start, but we have, through necessity, assembled a new squad and they need some time to work cohesively. If the next four yield the same return, I think you  would have to become concerned - but to be honest I'm not really a great fan of this bullshit , super hyperbolic venal, greedy grasping league anyway.MOTD says it all - cnuts.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: KRS on September 01, 2019, 07:48:56 AM
No. There are teams with much worse team work, ethic and spirit than us so weíll be fine. Much to improve but we have a talented manager and squad with much to learn. Early days and all that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 01, 2019, 07:56:14 AM
It's been deflating to lose 3 out of the 4 and given the scars of our recent history there is the nagging concern that we could go weeks, months without winning again. I think these are the natural emotions of the football fan. Logic tells me there are 34 games to go so there is no need to worry. If last season taught us anything it is that teams can transform their level of performance hugely within a season. So I'm going to be positive. On to the next one (shame it's 2 weeks away)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mallo on September 01, 2019, 07:59:32 AM
Not yet - much depends if we can stay in striking distance of 17th. We can buy in jan if needed. If we continue with the commitment Iím sure weíll get better. If weíre still in the bottom 3 at Xmas Iíll worry.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: rob_bridge on September 01, 2019, 08:02:15 AM
No. Expected 4 maybe 5 points at this stage.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AV82EC on September 01, 2019, 08:15:01 AM
No.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on September 01, 2019, 08:44:28 AM
No, wanted a win and a draw from Everton and Palace. Which we should have had.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on September 01, 2019, 08:44:32 AM
Worried no. Depressed? Yes.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: VillaAlways on September 01, 2019, 08:45:09 AM
Not at all. We will only get better
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 01, 2019, 08:46:09 AM
Yes. Weíre not going to score enough goals, and weíre way too lightweight in midfield.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: charleeco7 on September 01, 2019, 08:46:25 AM
Another point would have been nice as if we can average 2 points per game we will stay up but itís not terrible and still early days.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on September 01, 2019, 08:48:19 AM
We have a capable squad I would like DS to make changes early when players are not performing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Allan C on September 01, 2019, 09:33:55 AM
No not worried  Iíve seen enough to know we are good enough to reach mid table at least
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on September 01, 2019, 09:35:36 AM
Worried? A little bit. Pissed off? More than a little bit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 01, 2019, 09:41:42 AM
So 10% of the season gone, played a top 4 side, a side looking to break into top 6 and 2 sides that youíd expect weíd be competing to stay up with. P4-W1-L3.

Weíve not had much luck but thatís still a disappointing return. We needed to get off to a good start, we havenít and at times weíve looked naive. So anybody starting to get worried yet?

102 pts left to play for in 34 matches (81pts from 27 if we write off top 4 matches)
Villa need to be achieving 35-38 points avoid drop
For argument sake how worried are we in getting 8 wins and 9 draws from remaining matches? Be it 27 or full 34 matches.

Focusing on home matches up to and including boxing day.
Villa have 8 matches at home- with 1 against top 4 team Liverpool. Perhaps Leicester City as a top 6 contender could also be considered a more difficult match.
That said the other 6 are all matches to accumulate points  by boxing Day and before new year 2020.
From overall 8 matches taking 4 to 5 wins and a few draws would be decent . 15-18pts
Winning 6+ home matches before new year and we're doing very well.

Mon 16 Sep 20:00   
WHU (H)   
Sat 28 Sep 15:00      
BUR (H)   
Sat 19 Oct 15:00      
BHA (H)   
Sat 2 Nov 15:00      
LIV (H)   
Sat 23 Nov 15:00      
NEW (H)   
Sat 7 Dec 15:00      
LEI (H)   
Sat 21 Dec 15:00      
SOU (H)   
Thu 26 Dec 15:00      
NOR (H)      

Our home form is particularly important so to pick up as many wins as we can in this period, especially as fixtures are favourable, can give as strong platform to remain in league.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nastylee on September 01, 2019, 09:42:14 AM
36 points seems a long way away.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clampy on September 01, 2019, 09:47:48 AM
Worried? Not in the slightest, not after 4 games anyway. We'll improve as the season goes on.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chris Smith on September 01, 2019, 09:49:02 AM
36 points seems a long way away.

As it does for many clubs, weíre one point from 10th place.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 01, 2019, 09:49:30 AM
36 points seems a long way away.

Not necessarily 36 points!
Yes in past 24 seasons, the 18th-placed team, the highest to go down, have averaged 35.5 points

Though very recent history , the last 3 Premier League seasons, the minimum points needed to be safe:

2018/19 34 pts
2017/18 34pts
2016/17 35pts

"Premier league history has shown that since the league was cut to 20 teams in 1995/96, the average points required to avoid the drop has been much lower than 40."
It is not since 2002/3 season that over 40 pts was needed . That season 43 points needed to stay in league.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on September 01, 2019, 09:50:15 AM
I'll be worried if we haven't picked up a few points by the conclusion of the Brighton game. We have a run of mostly horrible looking games after that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Godfrey Brian on September 01, 2019, 09:55:00 AM
We've a lot of learning to come as individuals, team and club throughout this season. Some of that is going to be painful.I do think that the club is now set up to accommodate it and progress though. So not worried but expecting a tough season with regular lows and a few highs.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: VillaAlways on September 01, 2019, 09:56:38 AM
We have a capable squad I would like DS to make changes early when players are not performing.
This for me. He doesnít react when weíre under the cosh and he should have subbed Tres at half time yesterday as he was booked and playing crap
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on September 01, 2019, 10:01:05 AM
If we had come up after being out of this League for more than say 10 years no one would worry about  the current state however we are burdened with recent experience and that is making people keeping looking towards loo door.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: aev on September 01, 2019, 10:13:25 AM
I am but then I worry about everything Villa related.


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 01, 2019, 10:23:28 AM
Another point would have been nice as if we can average 2 points per game we will stay up but itís not terrible and still early days.

2 points per game we''d be going for the Champions' League!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 01, 2019, 10:24:11 AM
We have a capable squad I would like DS to make changes early when players are not performing.
This for me. He doesnít react when weíre under the cosh and he should have subbed Tres at half time yesterday as he was booked and playing crap

Make of this what you will.
The goal conceded away  against Palace was in the 73rd minute
The 1st goal conceded away this season was v Spurs also in the 73rd minute.

The Premier league season so far :
Between minutes 31st to 70th minute there has been no goal scored or conceded by Villa.
It's a small sample of data as only 4 matches but interesting nonetheless.

Villa have scored 50% of goals in first 30 minutes of matches and 50% from 70th minute to 90th of matches .

Scored:
Spurs 9'
Bournemouth 71'
Everton 21' 90'

Villa have conceded 36% of goals in first 30 minutes and conceded 64% of goals from 70th to 90th minute.

Goals conceded minutes
Bournemouth 1' 12'
Palace 73'
Spurs 73' 86' 90'

Similar pattern In league cup tend to have goals be it for or against in first half hour of a match or in final 20 minutes.
 
Aston Villa scored v Crewe
4 ' 24'  45' 69' 76' minutes), Grealish (87' minutes)
And conceded '84
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Baldy on September 01, 2019, 10:24:41 AM
No. We would be equal 11th and happy campers if it wasn't for that shocking/disgraceful decision yesterday.

With more new players than any other side in the league we have loads of room for development and can only improve as the season progresses.

Would help immensely if Friend was banned from officiating at any future Villa matches and also prevent him from inciting a possible riot.   >:(
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on September 01, 2019, 10:30:34 AM
The Bournemouth result is the one thats really fucked us to this point. My early thoughts going into the International break is that it's going to be close. I agree with Risso, specifically for me we need a player that can really protect the defence in that defensive midfield role and i think we need wide attacking players that will really stretch the opposition defence and score goals. These are the 2 areas that are letting us down the most. I actually think that the midfielders we have are good enough but we don't specifically have a real breaker up of play in there, a younger and 'premier league standard version' of Jedinak for example. Trezeguet has a lot of potential and should improve over time but we still look like we need more (and better) options in those positions as well. The ball comes back way too easily from those areas, this is a problem that has remained from last season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 01, 2019, 10:39:23 AM
Iím still 50/50. Yesterday felt like a bad one partly because we were robbed at the end, partly because of the way we let them back into the game both halves.

But I said before the game a draw was a good result, 4 points from 4 would have been good based on the fixtures, and we only missed out on being in that position through incompetent reffing.

Win next game in convincing fashion and weíre back where we should be, lose and it starts to look dicey.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on September 01, 2019, 10:46:48 AM
Yes, 4 or certainly 5 points would have been a solid start. As it is we have 3, although it really should have been 4 after yesterday even if we didn't deserve it. If we go all season a point or two short of target for each set of games we're going to be running it close.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: andrew08 on September 01, 2019, 10:57:43 AM
I think we need to run at a point a game all season so until we get a win behind that Iím not concerned. Home form will be key of course, and the Bournemouth freak has hurt us, after a Arsenal away hopefully we should be 6 for 6. Any points picked up away will be bonus... yesterday should have been one.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 01, 2019, 11:04:24 AM
Yes, 4 or certainly 5 points would have been a solid start. As it is we have 3, although it really should have been 4 after yesterday even if we didn't deserve it. If we go all season a point or two short of target for each set of games we're going to be running it close.

Yep. If weíre a point or two off a run rate of one per game we can easily make that up with a good run. Given the rebuild over the summer weíre likely to get better as the season develops as long as we donít get into a losing mentality.

Good leadership and squad togetherness are key and I have a lot of faith in both those aspects.

Yesterday might have been a blessing in disguise. Getting robbed by the ref is better mentally than losing fairly after a poor performance and brain fart from trezeguet.   
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: richtheholtender on September 01, 2019, 11:12:00 AM
I donít think the situation would be looking as bad if Newcastle hadnít of beaten spurs and palace hadnít of beaten united. Trezeguet concerns me. Jota Abs El Ghazi have had some sort of impact on games where as he seems to just be taking every opportunity to go to the floor. He just doesnít look the threat I thought he would. I still donít see the value in signing Konsa instead of say Maupay was. As somebody else put, we look a striker to light and a centre half to heavy. I also think that after spending £130 million on 12 new players, to fall short of getting another striker/winger for say £15-£20 million doesnít make sense. If the money was an issue, why not use the loan market like Bournemouth did for Wilson?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Fred Crump on September 01, 2019, 11:12:43 AM
We have a capable squad I would like DS to make changes early when players are not performing.
This for me. He doesnít react when weíre under the cosh and he should have subbed Tres at half time yesterday as he was booked and playing crap

Make of this what you will.
The goal conceded away  against Palace was in the 73rd minute
The 1st goal conceded away this season was v Spurs also in the 73rd minute.

The Premier league season so far :
Between minutes 31st to 70th minute there has been no goal scored or conceded by Villa.
It's a small sample of data as only 4 matches but interesting nonetheless.

Villa have scored 50% of goals in first 30 minutes of matches and 50% from 70th minute to 90th of matches .

Scored:
Spurs 9'
Bournemouth 71'
Everton 21' 90'

Villa have conceded 36% of goals in first 30 minutes and conceded 64% of goals from 70th to 90th minute.

Goals conceded minutes
Bournemouth 1' 12'
Palace 73'
Spurs 73' 86' 90'

Similar pattern In league cup tend to have goals be it for or against in first half hour of a match or in final 20 minutes.
 
Aston Villa scored v Crewe
4 ' 24'  45' 69' 76' minutes), Grealish (87' minutes)
And conceded '84

I would make the following of that:

We support a team of 11 blokes who play on a bit of grass in Birmingham and we try to kick a ball into a net more times in about an hour and a half than another team of 11 blokes who are trying to kick the same ball into another net more times than us.
But then statistical analysis never was my strong point.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 01, 2019, 11:16:52 AM
I was going off trezeguet before yesterday. I donít think heís done enough justify a starting place. Lot of swagger without backing it up has had all our best chances this season and not taken them, Bolasie style.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on September 01, 2019, 11:20:38 AM
Yeah, i only skimmed through it but it's a bit early in the season for all that bollocks.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AllanW on September 01, 2019, 11:24:37 AM
No. Not worried.

The squad and coaching staff are capable of ensuring the club stays up.

UTV
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Fred Crump on September 01, 2019, 11:36:45 AM
Iím not worried on the basis of results so far. I was worried before the season started and will continue to be until the end of the season because despite having a fantastic manager, owners and set up generally, we came up as the 3rd best team (by quite a long way) and you canít transform anything overnight.
Also letís not kid ourselves, for all the hyperbolic Sky and BBC ĎPremier Leagueí crap nearly all the teams in this league are bloody good and some may as well be off a different planet. So I donít buy this ĎPalace and Bournemouth are nothing special, we should be hammering the likes of themí stuff.
Itís going to be a battle in every game and as far as I can see , we have battled in every one so far. When we stop doing that, I will really start to get concerned.
In the meantime UTV !!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: maidstonevillain on September 01, 2019, 11:38:19 AM
I will start to worry if we lose to West Ham.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on September 01, 2019, 11:59:10 AM
I've been worried since we got whacked at Newcastle in 2010 and I'm hardly about to stop now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pete3206 on September 01, 2019, 12:21:26 PM
No, not worried at all.

It's a long season and they'll be a lot of ups and downs.

We'll be OK.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on September 01, 2019, 12:30:28 PM
I was going off trezeguet before yesterday. I donít think heís done enough justify a starting place. Lot of swagger without backing it up has had all our best chances this season and not taken them, Bolasie style.

Not worried at the moment, but agree with this. The one player I have a real concern about at the moment. This theratrical chucking himself on the floor every time he's barely touched really boils my piss. He's done it several times, correctly been laughed at by officials, and then leaves us open to a counter attack.

Actually thought he was unlucky with his first yellow where the Palace lad made a complete meal of very little contact. The second was just ridiculous, especially as our friend couldn't wait to get the red card out.

Hopefully his form, involvement and attitude will improve a lot, because we really need it to.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 01, 2019, 12:41:11 PM
I know what you mean.

However, i think this team was always going to need 5/6 games to properly gel, and I still think that is the case.

Having said that, seeing us in the relegation places, even after only a few games, does make me uncomfortable.

I've seen enough so far to be positive about, we just need to start losing fewer games, and try not to panic in the meantime.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on September 01, 2019, 12:44:12 PM
Yes. We’re not going to score enough goals, and we’re way too lightweight in midfield.

I'm not in panic mode but this has definitely crossed my mind more than once.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: gpbarr on September 01, 2019, 12:50:44 PM
Not worried but Dean has to get a grip of his tactics - yesterday was all wrong and to survive in this league we first have to exercise control in midfield. Playing Jota, McGinn, and Grealish in the same side, away, is a mistake (that three leave us too light in terms bossing midfield) and as a result Palace largely were on the front foot for very large parts of the game. The fact we only lost 1-0 says much about our defense and their terrible attack.

Hourihane and Marvelous alongside Luiz in midfield would significantly strengthen the core. Then we need our FB to supply the ammo which means Taylor has to give way.

If we lose to WH, our confidence may really start to plummet.


 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SamTheMouse on September 01, 2019, 12:53:47 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 01, 2019, 12:57:51 PM
I was worried before the season started and I'm still worried now.  Not because of anything that's happened on the pitch, just because it was always going to be very difficult this season and we had particular disadvantages in having signed so many new and inexperienced players.  I said at the start that I'd take 17th like a shot, and I still would.  I think we'll stay up but I suspect it won't be by much.  A striker in January will help tremendously.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: richtheholtender on September 01, 2019, 12:58:21 PM
If Everton can shove +3 up wolves today weíll be back out the relegation zone.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard E on September 01, 2019, 01:06:19 PM
Yes, and for the same reasons as Risso.

But then I was born worried so plus ca change.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: boutrosboutrosgnarly on September 01, 2019, 01:06:48 PM
No, we've played four games.Stupid mistakes have cost us but I think we've played well except yesterday.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Scovilla on September 01, 2019, 01:37:37 PM
Yes, but always are when it comes to Villa.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 01, 2019, 01:49:04 PM
It will all be about our home games and if we can smash 30 points from them and pick up 10/12 away we will be fine
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: amfy on September 01, 2019, 01:51:27 PM
If Everton can shove +3 up wolves today weíll be back out the relegation zone.

I would love it, just love it, if this happened.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: FatSam on September 01, 2019, 01:53:07 PM
Like some others have said, Iím worried, but only in the way that has been pretty much the default for the whole of my Villa-supporting life.

I wrote on the post-match thread that we lost the game yesterday because of a poor decision, and can be overly self-critical. Teams win games all the time that they donít deserve to, as we did during our 12 game winning run last season.

Iíd be surprised if we were dominating any of the teams we have played so far given the complete overhaul that was necessary over the summer.

What I am worried about though is complacency. I am worried that the team might be overly confident that things will eventually come good - and they might not. Every game obviously matters, and we donít want to become adrift at the bottom. I am worried that we donít really have another way to play if this doesnít work (mainly due to our limited options up front).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on September 01, 2019, 01:59:12 PM
The slight worry I have is Smith rigidly sticking to the existing formation waiting for it to come right. We have to move away from the "2 number eights" and have two sitting in midfield.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 01, 2019, 02:00:19 PM
The slight worry I have is Smith rigidly sticking to the existing formation waiting for it to come right. We have to move away from the "2 number eights" and have two sitting in midfield.

Not to worried but 1 win in 4 is not good. I agree with the above
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: richtheholtender on September 01, 2019, 02:05:59 PM
If Everton can shove +3 up wolves today weíll be back out the relegation zone.

I would love it, just love it, if this happened.

Itís happening
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa75 on September 01, 2019, 02:11:58 PM
The day I stop being happy at winning 3 in 4, or being worried that we've lost 3 out of 4, is probably the day I'm dribbling into my pureed food not even knowing what the fuck Aston Villa is.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on September 01, 2019, 02:26:38 PM
I mean, for context, if the score stays the same Wolves will be on the same number of points as us, but winless, and I'm not sure how many people have them going down at this stage.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: amfy on September 01, 2019, 02:43:12 PM
I mean, for context, if the score stays the same Wolves will be on the same number of points as us, but winless, and I'm not sure how many people have them going down at this stage.

Quite.

To be honest, I would almost prefer to laugh at dropping them into the bottom three on alphabetical order and then us copiously pointing out the 21 letter gap.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 01, 2019, 02:51:12 PM
Yes. Weíre not going to score enough goals, and weíre way too lightweight in midfield.
Agree, if we continue to set the team up like this we are going to struggle, we have to sort the midfield out and soon.
We can then worrie about the goals.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on September 01, 2019, 03:15:42 PM
Iíll only start getting worried when I see the Villa fans Worried thread make an appearance
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Taylor on September 01, 2019, 03:33:03 PM
The straw that iím clinging to is that we havenít been totally outplayed by anyone yet. I seem to remember in our relegation season, that this happened pretty much every week.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 01, 2019, 03:34:29 PM
The straw that iím clinging to is that we havenít been totally outplayed by anyone yet. I seem to remember in our relation season, that this happened pretty much every week.
Are you sure ?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Taylor on September 01, 2019, 03:44:14 PM
The straw that iím clinging to is that we havenít been totally outplayed by anyone yet. I seem to remember in our relation season, that this happened pretty much every week.
Are you sure ?
About which bit? Being outplayed or it happening every week. Perhaps I just remember the bad days of that season, but I think there were a lot.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on September 01, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
No.
3 points separate 7th from 19th.
Enjoy the ride with just 4 games in. After 9-10 games things will become clearer and then we'll know what kind of roller-coaster we're on.
UTV!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Goldie.7 on September 01, 2019, 03:56:32 PM
No. Expected 4 maybe 5 points at this stage.

We have neither of those so saying "no" makes no sense.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 01, 2019, 03:57:59 PM
Not worried yet. Fully expected a difficult start.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Matt C on September 01, 2019, 04:05:17 PM
Early days yet but yesterdayís defeat really grates and weíve now got two week to stew on it.

That said, perhaps two weeks for Smith and his team to reflect and reset might come at a good time. We need to change the shape, lose a winger, push Jack further forward and get some more strength in midfield. Then we need to work on moving possession from midfield to attack far more quickly and getting more runners to support Wesley.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 01, 2019, 04:09:39 PM
No, early days, keep the faith UTV
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 01, 2019, 04:10:12 PM
The straw that iím clinging to is that we havenít been totally outplayed by anyone yet. I seem to remember in our relation season, that this happened pretty much every week.
Are you sure ?
About which bit? Being outplayed or it happening every week. Perhaps I just remember the bad days of that season, but I think there were a lot.
I have not seen every minute of every game but we have had long periods of being outplayed or over run including yesterday.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on September 01, 2019, 04:15:12 PM
A lot of the other established prem clubs look far more athletic and stronger than us, and Greater than I remember from when we were there last
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 01, 2019, 04:24:43 PM
We were outplayed for most of the second half against Spurs, and for the last half an hour it was like the Alamo.  Perhaps only to be expected given it was the first match back against one of the best teams in the Premier League.  Bournemouth was a decent performance, and we had ⅔ of the possession, only for the stupid mistakes to cripple us.  Everton swamped us for the first twenty minutes of the game and created a few good chances during the 90 minutes they should probably have scored from, but overall I thought we were the best team and looked very good.  Yesterday was abject, and made even worse by the sending off.

The plus points are the defence, as I don't think there's much wrong there and we have good strength in depth.  Even Taylor looks half decent.  The midfield has talent in it, but it just doesn't seem to be working at this higher level at the moment.  Luiz is clearly a very good player, but he's on the small side, and doesn't seem as physical or athletic as some of the enforcers other teams have.  Jack hasn't fully hit his stride yet, and McGinn seems to have too much to do.

The real worry for me is the front three.  Wesley will be a good player, but is going to take time to really get up to speed.  I'm not convinced at all that Jota and El Ghazi are good enough for the Premier League, and Trezeguet doesn't really seem deserving of his nick name at the moment.

Early days, but lack of goals from the front three is going to make sure we hang around the lower reaches until Christmas I reckon.  When January hits, I'd like to see another wide player but more importantly, a goal scorer coming in.  I think not bringing one in was the one misstep the management team made in the summer, but it was a big one.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Goldie.7 on September 01, 2019, 04:44:04 PM
Yes. Weíre not going to score enough goals, and weíre way too lightweight in midfield.

100% correct. We'll be yo-yoing near the bottom of the table most like until we buy something that should have been a top priority this summer, another striker.

Going into your first PL campaign after being absent for three seasons with very limited forward options is negligence.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: nick harper on September 01, 2019, 04:47:13 PM
4-2-3-1 needs to be the formation I think to get more presence in midfield. Weíre not getting enough of the ball for Grealish and McGinn to be influential in the final third.
He needs to find a place for Hourihane in the side as well. He creates and scores too many goals to be a bit part player.
That formation will need our full backs to be bombing up and down - so tough on Taylor whoís done pretty well defensively.
Also think Davis will play a bigger role in that formation. He links really well with players coming towards him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on September 01, 2019, 05:04:13 PM
No, yes. I mean no; I mean yes. I don't know.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Taylor on September 01, 2019, 05:05:15 PM
People make it sound so easy though. Just go and buy a striker, thatíll sort it, but a top striker is so hard to find plus also ridiculously expensive. I was at the game yesterday, unfortunately in the home stand with a Palace supporting mate, he is resigned to losing Saha in the Jan window, add to that the fact that benteke canít buy a goal at the moment just highlights how hard it is to score goals in this league.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 01, 2019, 05:10:14 PM
The slight worry I have is Smith rigidly sticking to the existing formation waiting for it to come right. We have to move away from the "2 number eights" and have two sitting in midfield.

Letís not chuck everything out just yet.  Itís been four games, nowhere near long enough to suggest we are sticking rigidly to anything.  Smith is an intelligent man and he will be looking a what needs to improve and figuring out how to do that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on September 01, 2019, 05:16:37 PM
I'd like us to stop, or at least limit, the number of short goal kicks. They were shite under Lambert and they're shite now. All they do is mean we are unable to maintain a high defensive line and we invite pressure.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 01, 2019, 05:19:45 PM
The slight worry I have is Smith rigidly sticking to the existing formation waiting for it to come right. We have to move away from the "2 number eights" and have two sitting in midfield.

Letís not chuck everything out just yet.  Itís been four games, nowhere near long enough to suggest we are sticking rigidly to anything.  Smith is an intelligent man and he will be looking a what needs to improve and figuring out how to do that.

The trouble is I don't think he's making good subs so far.  At Spurs the midfield desperately needed shoring up, but he chose to sub a winger for a winger and brought Jota on.  Bournemouth made a sub at half time for their player who was a walking red card.  With four yellow cards at half time, and a ref clearly looking to send one of ours off, Smith should have done the same.  Things like that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 01, 2019, 05:22:37 PM
The next 5 league games will show us how much we need to worry imo. West Ham, Burnley and Brighton at home, Arsenal and Norwich away.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 01, 2019, 05:24:59 PM
The slight worry I have is Smith rigidly sticking to the existing formation waiting for it to come right. We have to move away from the "2 number eights" and have two sitting in midfield.

Letís not chuck everything out just yet.  Itís been four games, nowhere near long enough to suggest we are sticking rigidly to anything.  Smith is an intelligent man and he will be looking a what needs to improve and figuring out how to do that.

The trouble is I don't think he's making good subs so far.  At Spurs the midfield desperately needed shoring up, but he chose to sub a winger for a winger and brought Jota on.  Bournemouth made a sub at half time for their player who was a walking red card.  With four yellow cards at half time, and a ref clearly looking to send one of ours off, Smith should have done the same.  Things like that.

Surely the players have to take some responsibility for cautions, Trez was very naive and rightfully got a second yellow, I don't think that you can blame Smith for bookings
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Tom_Mc9? on September 01, 2019, 05:25:54 PM
The next 5 league games will show us how much we need to worry imo. West Ham, Burnley and Brighton at home, Arsenal and Norwich away.

Seven points, which will leave us with 10 from a possible 21. I'd put that as somewhere between okay and not okay.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 01, 2019, 05:48:58 PM
No worried per se, but we need to get the system right. Weíre not on the front door enough in some games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 01, 2019, 05:52:10 PM
I think not bringing one in was the one misstep the management team made in the summer, but it was a big one.

Yes, agree with that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 01, 2019, 05:55:06 PM
Yes. Weíre not going to score enough goals, and weíre way too lightweight in midfield.

100% correct. We'll be yo-yoing near the bottom of the table most like until we buy something that should have been a top priority this summer, another striker.

Going into your first PL campaign after being absent for three seasons with very limited forward options is negligence.

Negligence is a bit strong.  Smith and the club said they wanted to bring a striker in and had targets, but the combination of the right player with the right attitude at the right price and the right financial package did not materialise.

Not getting another striker was not ideal, but neither would have been spending stupid money just to get someone through the door or panic buying a ill-suited player just to say theyíve signed someone.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 01, 2019, 05:58:31 PM
The slight worry I have is Smith rigidly sticking to the existing formation waiting for it to come right. We have to move away from the "2 number eights" and have two sitting in midfield.

Letís not chuck everything out just yet.  Itís been four games, nowhere near long enough to suggest we are sticking rigidly to anything.  Smith is an intelligent man and he will be looking a what needs to improve and figuring out how to do that.

The trouble is I don't think he's making good subs so far.  At Spurs the midfield desperately needed shoring up, but he chose to sub a winger for a winger and brought Jota on.  Bournemouth made a sub at half time for their player who was a walking red card.  With four yellow cards at half time, and a ref clearly looking to send one of ours off, Smith should have done the same.  Things like that.

Surely the players have to take some responsibility for cautions, Trez was very naive and rightfully got a second yellow, I don't think that you can blame Smith for bookings

Subs I agree could be improved, and we have to have confidence it will as Smith gains more experience in the Prem.

I agree that it was clear that we were going to have someone sent off after the first half, we were talking about it in the stands at half-time, the players should really have made a concerted attempt to make sure they didnít give that idiot easy decisions to show cards.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa75 on September 01, 2019, 06:08:04 PM
The next 5 league games will show us how much we need to worry imo. West Ham, Burnley and Brighton at home, Arsenal and Norwich away.

Seven points, which will leave us with 10 from a possible 21. I'd put that as somewhere between okay and not okay.


Considering the teams we would have played, that will be relegation form.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ads on September 01, 2019, 06:32:49 PM
Two champions league competing sides, a top 6 contender, 4 mid table sides and 2 relegation rivals;that's surely as even a spread as possible.10 points would leave us with with 1.11 a game and 42 overall.

That said, Burnley and Brighton have to be games we win and Norwich away one we dont lose. I'd fancy us against Weat Ham.

More generally, I have my concerns. Yesterday was poor, despite that we ought to have had a point and 4 would have been what I expected.

I dont think we're being out muscled or out run, I think we're the architects of our own downfall. We give it up too cheaply and display a lot of naivety.

That includes a midfield that isn't functioning correctly. We are bedding players in though  but we're too deep. We creates nothing for Wesley or Davis in the box yesterday till late on. Grealish is too deep and the 433 is too easily nullified.

Away from home I'd have two sat to give Grealish licence to be 20 yards further forward, with McGinn tucked in and one wide man in support of Wesley. We need a better shape.

At home we've created more and 433 is less problematic.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: in exile on September 01, 2019, 06:48:10 PM
I am...a little.
I have been underwhelmed by the form of Grealish, McGinn, Jota, Trez, Louiz and after yesterday Guilbert.
Part of me wants a shake up in midfield but part of me wants to stick with it to see if we can turn it around.
We ought to be beating the likes of Bournemouth and Palace
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: andyh on September 01, 2019, 07:20:13 PM
we have no automatic right to beat just beat the Ďlikesí of anyone.
We are the new boys to this division, making a huge step up in class.

We have got to learn from these games, and learn quickly enough so that we donít find ourselves playing catch before too long.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: gpbarr on September 01, 2019, 07:29:20 PM
After 4 games last season, the bottom three was West Ham, Burnley, and Newcastle. And they all had less than three points. None of them were relegated.

Let's see where we are after 10 games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 01, 2019, 07:32:35 PM
The next 5 league games will show us how much we need to worry imo. West Ham, Burnley and Brighton at home, Arsenal and Norwich away.

Seven points, which will leave us with 10 from a possible 21. I'd put that as somewhere between okay and not okay.


Considering the teams we would have played, that will be relegation form.

Think we'll only get 5. Draws v West Ham and Burnley and win Brighton. Would say something at Norwich but our record there has been dismal since Lambert got sacked (that and Anfield were two away grounds he also turned into a mini Guardiola for the afternoon).

We just need to hang in until xmas. Think we can pick up some wins over xmas period and January and hopefully get in 2-3 more proven players to get us over the line.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on September 01, 2019, 07:38:09 PM
After 4 games last season, the bottom three was West Ham, Burnley, and Newcastle. And they all had less than three points. None of them were relegated.

Let's see where we are after 10 games.

I like this stat. Good work 👍🏿
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 01, 2019, 07:42:36 PM
Newcastle didn't win a game til November, if memory serves me right. And they still weren't bottom then!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 01, 2019, 08:59:50 PM
No. Well, not yet anyway. Well, just a little. Sweet Caroline anyone?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 01, 2019, 09:12:22 PM
Points totals to stay up will be much higher I think. Doubt anyone will stay up on 35 points like Brighton did.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on September 01, 2019, 09:16:12 PM
No. Well, not yet anyway. Well, just a little. Sweet Caroline anyone?

FUCK THE BLUES!

Sorry, couldn't help it. It's just so catchy!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on September 01, 2019, 09:49:37 PM
It's too early to be worried to be honest.  I am concerned about where the goals are going to come from and also about the lack of physical presence in the centre of the park.  Silly errors are costing us dear at the moment.  Really poor defending cost us the goal with Mings over-stretching and Grealish smashing the clearance into Ayew.  The positives are that we haven't been walloped and seem capable of defending well.  I'd like to see Makamba and Luiz in the centre of the park together to allow Grealish and SJM to play further forward. I don't know whether Dean wants to experiment just yet though and he certainly doesn't strike me as one to panic. I think we will struggle but hopefully finish above the line rather than below it.  Those of us wanting to purchase more players in January may see those players decide to go elsewhere as they may not take the risk of a relegation battle, which may, ultimately see them in the Championship.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 01, 2019, 09:51:42 PM
I still think we'll eventually be OK. 16th. Just.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Davkaus on September 01, 2019, 09:58:55 PM
we have no automatic right to beat just beat the Ďlikesí of anyone.
We are the new boys to this division, making a huge step up in class.

Well said.

I get the impression some people thought that after a decade of being very badly run, scraping promotion after a ridiculous run against the odds when we looked down and out last season, then basically signing a whole new team, that we'd roll back the clock and go back to being a comfortable PL team.

Being Aston Villa counts for sod all this season, it'll take a lot of bloody hard work to be able to look down on any PL clubs and put relegation out of our mind any time soon.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AVH87 on September 01, 2019, 10:06:29 PM
What worries me more than the start is at least a couple of people already mentioning the J word, January. That suggests they think the current group isn't good enough to stay up. I think we need a bit of improvement as we will need to finish above at least 1, maybe 2, proven Prem teams (your Brightons/Newcastles/Southamptons) of this world, and at the moment they look a little bit streetwise and not exactly relegation fodder.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: algy on September 01, 2019, 10:47:24 PM
Not worried at the moment. Losing to Spurs away is pretty much par for the course for anyone not chasing the title. After that, we've played 3 mid table teams, beat one and lost to the other 2. To me, that suggests we're probably a way off qualifying for Europe right now but there's nothing at all to go off against the type of teams likely to be involved in a relegation battle.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 01, 2019, 10:59:01 PM
Itís all about small margins at the minute.

We were punished early on against Bournemouth for some silly mistakes which played into their hands and prevented us getting the points we were capable of getting.  We didnít perform very well at Palace, but poor judgement sent us a man down and a referee mistake prevented us taking home a point.  A slight shift in fortunes could have seen us with 7 points from four.

On the other hand, had Everton taken their opportunities we could have lost that one too, and so a small shift in fortunes the other way could have left us with nothing so far.

What we need to see now is whether or not the team can push on and make these little improvements that will see us putting points on the board more regularly.  I think they are capable of it and Smith and his staff are capable of bringing it out in them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on September 01, 2019, 11:40:51 PM
Itís all about small margins at the minute.

We were punished early on against Bournemouth for some silly mistakes which played into their hands and prevented us getting the points we were capable of getting.  We didnít perform very well at Palace, but poor judgement sent us a man down and a referee mistake prevented us taking home a point.  A slight shift in fortunes could have seen us with 7 points from four.

On the other hand, had Everton taken their opportunities we could have lost that one too, and so a small shift in fortunes the other way could have left us with nothing so far.

What we need to see now is whether or not the team can push on and make these little improvements that will see us putting points on the board more regularly.  I think they are capable of it and Smith and his staff are capable of bringing it out in them.

I think there are significant issues to be fixed by management this break. The football we are playing is really poor (including v Everton) and needs significant tactical adjustment to get more out of our two best players in midfield. When Grealish was out last season injured, Smith stuck rigidly to the same formation without success until he returned from injury. I hope he isn't going to repeat that mistake this season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 02, 2019, 12:15:36 AM
What worries me more than the start is at least a couple of people already mentioning the J word, January. That suggests they think the current group isn't good enough to stay up. I think we need a bit of improvement as we will need to finish above at least 1, maybe 2, proven Prem teams (your Brightons/Newcastles/Southamptons) of this world, and at the moment they look a little bit streetwise and not exactly relegation fodder.

It's too early to judge the new signings especially as 3-4 of them haven't even set foot on a premier league pitch yet.

I doubt i'm in the minority in  being hugely surprised on the last day of the window we didn't get in at least one more attacking player and that's the area of the pitch we've looked short so far. Not just with the 3 starting but a game turning option to bring off the bench. Looks even weaker with Kodjia unavailable since the first game.

We will sign on in January. Dosen't have to be 20m player, could be player who is out of favour and signs on loan. Many clubs have done that and stayed up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 12:23:44 AM
We will sign on in January.

With a pen in our hands?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on September 02, 2019, 01:13:01 AM
When you break the games down it's not so gloomy, Spurs are a top outfit and we nearly caused an upset, Everton are supposedly a top six side and we beat them, Bournemouth we were disappointing and we saw what happened at Palace. Remember the pace of the game has gone up from last season and some of our players like McGinn are finding it hard adjusting. Wesley needs more support he will come good but disappointed with with Trez. We have players who can come in and make a difference.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Goldie.7 on September 02, 2019, 03:44:59 AM
After 4 games last season, the bottom three was West Ham, Burnley, and Newcastle. And they all had less than three points. None of them were relegated.

None of those just got promoted or purchased a whole new squad.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 02, 2019, 03:57:42 AM
What is the point in worrying?  As fans there is only one thing we can do, which is get behind the team, encourage them, and show them how much their efforts mean to us all.

Panicking, second-guessing, and getting on peopleís backs after only four games isnít going to achieve anything.  If people expected us to walk it then thatís their own fault, it was always going to be a difficult season and if you canít take the downs with the ups then youíre really not going to enjoy a lot of football in life!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 02, 2019, 04:07:18 AM
No. Outside of the top 2 nobody is that special. Thatís why one win all of a sudden puts us in the top 6. Way too early yet. Concerned about a few things? Absolutely. But we have time to fix them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: darren woolley on September 02, 2019, 06:50:14 AM
We will be OK too early to be worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Mister E on September 02, 2019, 08:27:16 AM
After 4 games last season, the bottom three was West Ham, Burnley, and Newcastle. And they all had less than three points. None of them were relegated.

Let's see where we are after 10 games.

I like this stat. Good work 👍🏿
Palace lost all of their first 6 games, scoring no goals; two seasons' ago.
Stayed up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: fbriai on September 02, 2019, 09:24:02 AM
Not worried at all. We've got some good players and a good team.

We've not had the rub of the green at times. Should have got something from the Bournemouth game and should have got something on the weekend.

We'll be grand.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on September 02, 2019, 09:29:09 AM
After 4 games last season, the bottom three was West Ham, Burnley, and Newcastle. And they all had less than three points. None of them were relegated.

Let's see where we are after 10 games.

I like this stat. Good work 👍🏿
Palace lost all of their first 6 games, scoring no goals; two seasons' ago.
Stayed up.

Keep 'em coming 😁
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 02, 2019, 09:34:37 AM
Huddersfield lost three of their first four games last season, and went down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ktvillan on September 02, 2019, 10:00:34 AM
I'm not so worried that we only have three points and are in the bottom 3 as there is still a long way to go.  However I am a bit concerned that we seem to be struggling to adapt to the pace, tempo and intensity of PL games.  Even during our 10 game winning run we had periods where the tempo dropped off and we ceded possession and chances to the opposition. You can get away with that in the Championship, but not the PL. We need to be able to keep the intensity going for most if not all of the game. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mike on September 02, 2019, 10:14:20 AM
We were at least as good as Bournemouth but suffered from two semi fluke goals and were very unlucky against Palace. Like others, I worry about the striker options but as long as the team spirit holds, we will be fine once we get a few wins in.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on September 02, 2019, 10:20:45 AM
We were at least as good as Bournemouth but suffered from two semi fluke goals and were very unlucky against Palace. Like others, I worry about the striker options but as long as the team spirit holds, we will be fine once we get a few wins in.
It's hard to judge whether we were as good as Bournemouth.  We gifted them a 2 goad start and they played the rest of the game accordingly.  They didn't do much because they didn't have to.  Yes they were lucky, but they beat us at a canter.
As for Palace, the decision was a disgrace but they were FAR better than us on the day.
I am still hopeful we will be ok, but I don't take much comnfort from those two games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on September 02, 2019, 10:28:11 AM
Huddersfield lost three of their first four games last season, and went down.

Yeah, but they're shit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Neil Hawkes on September 02, 2019, 10:38:30 AM
We were at least as good as Bournemouth but suffered from two semi fluke goals and were very unlucky against Palace. Like others, I worry about the striker options but as long as the team spirit holds, we will be fine once we get a few wins in.
It's hard to judge whether we were as good as Bournemouth.  We gifted them a 2 goad start and they played the rest of the game accordingly.  They didn't do much because they didn't have to.  Yes they were lucky, but they beat us at a canter.
As for Palace, the decision was a disgrace but they were FAR better than us on the day.
I am still hopeful we will be ok, but I don't take much comnfort from those two games.
The Palace game; they had a team going in at half time that where allowed to act without impunity also bolstered by the fact that every poor tackle by the opposition players would result in either a booking or a sending off - we held our own very well with 10 against 12 (one with the power to make any decision he deemed fit).
AND no, not worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Oscar Arce on September 02, 2019, 11:06:29 AM
Yes.
I don't think our squad is good enough or deep enough, we don't have enough possession and we don't create enough chances.
Our new signings are a mixed bag: Been impressed with Heaton, Engels and Guilbert, but Trezeguit and Wesley are simply not good enough at this level, Jota a bit player at best, El Ghazi poor.
Even after the euphoria of the Everton win I was'nt convinced and I think Smith's tactics of getting the ball to stick up top with players joining from midfield is flawed, we have to be able to change tactics for different situations, and I'm surprised I haven't seen enough of that from Smith.
We all, me included, want him so much to succeed, but I don't think our owners will want us to get too stranded near the foot before they start getting twitchy, hope it does'nt come to that but the West Ham game is becoming huge now before a trip to Arsenal, where we won't have much possession again.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: walsall villain on September 02, 2019, 11:29:21 AM
Huddersfield lost three of their first four games last season, and went down.

Yeah, but they're shit.
Palace lost first 7 on the trot 2 years ago and stayed up. Not worried yet.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 02, 2019, 11:31:36 AM
People make it sound so easy though. Just go and buy a striker, thatíll sort it, but a top striker is so hard to find plus also ridiculously expensive. I was at the game yesterday, unfortunately in the home stand with a Palace supporting mate, he is resigned to losing Saha in the Jan window, add to that the fact that benteke canít buy a goal at the moment just highlights how hard it is to score goals in this league.
Yes point taken . It's about good recruitment.
Theres some arguments it's down to playing philosophy too though
Pukki and Abraham say hi !
Either would be welcomed at Villa and would provide some dynamism up front.
As well as this for energy and dynamism Harry Wilson and Callum Robinson as wide forwards
Exciting players who fit into Dean Smith system. Instead we have gone overseas market.
For me strikers need to be a goal threat. Wesley isn't .
Outside of Che Adams, who hasn't made step up so far, yet superb last season,  I don't know if Wes is going to be more effective goal scorer than any of these summer signings
Maupay, Mcburnie , Kean, Haller , Joelinton .

The first 2 were options that would have been as good the last 3 maybe outside of price range perhaps
I do think a couple of premier league experienced players would have been good to tide us over like premier league winners such as Drinkwater, Cahill, sturridge , wellbeck just short term to see us through.

As much as I support the player signings Suso and Smith made there are some players that moved to other clubs which really would have benefited Villa in both how we play under Dean Smith and solid pros who know England .
The likes of Wesley , Trezeguet , are expected to do too much too soon. And I feel to many transfer made are just looking for growth potential and developing rather than having any ready made players .
Say Villa signed Callum Robinson and Maupay, who would nt have to settle., instead of Trez and Wes would we have had more goal threat.
I think we would.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 02, 2019, 11:38:46 AM
We were at least as good as Bournemouth but suffered from two semi fluke goals and were very unlucky against Palace. Like others, I worry about the striker options but as long as the team spirit holds, we will be fine once we get a few wins in.
It's hard to judge whether we were as good as Bournemouth.  We gifted them a 2 goad start and they played the rest of the game accordingly.  They didn't do much because they didn't have to.  Yes they were lucky, but they beat us at a canter.
As for Palace, the decision was a disgrace but they were FAR better than us on the day.
I am still hopeful we will be ok, but I don't take much comnfort from those two games.

Bournemouth was a car crash first 15 minutes but not how you say they were far better than us when applying same to Palace.

Against Bournemouth we had 21 (!) shots, 7 on target and 10 corners. Palace had 22 shots with 5 on target and 13 corners (although at least half of them came after we went down to 10 men).

If v Bournemouth we'd had a card happy ref like Friend in charge then Phillip Billing surely would've got a red so that would've improved the stats aswell.

So far I'd say we won a tight game v Everton (1 nil up to 95th minute) and lost three tight ones, two by a single goal and Spurs was 1-1 up to 86th minute. Maybe a bit too simplistic but we are in games up to the very end.

We certainly have the keeper and CB combination to stay up as we're difficult to break down but we also lack lots in the final third, people would really be optimstic to think we have a front three that is certain to fire us to safety.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mike on September 02, 2019, 12:42:53 PM
We were at least as good as Bournemouth but suffered from two semi fluke goals and were very unlucky against Palace. Like others, I worry about the striker options but as long as the team spirit holds, we will be fine once we get a few wins in.
It's hard to judge whether we were as good as Bournemouth.  We gifted them a 2 goad start and they played the rest of the game accordingly.  They didn't do much because they didn't have to.  Yes they were lucky, but they beat us at a canter.
As for Palace, the decision was a disgrace but they were FAR better than us on the day.
I am still hopeful we will be ok, but I don't take much comnfort from those two games.

Bournemouth was a car crash first 15 minutes but not how you say they were far better than us when applying same to Palace.

Against Bournemouth we had 21 (!) shots, 7 on target and 10 corners. Palace had 22 shots with 5 on target and 13 corners (although at least half of them came after we went down to 10 men).

If v Bournemouth we'd had a card happy ref like Friend in charge then Phillip Billing surely would've got a red so that would've improved the stats aswell.

So far I'd say we won a tight game v Everton (1 nil up to 95th minute) and lost three tight ones, two by a single goal and Spurs was 1-1 up to 86th minute. Maybe a bit too simplistic but we are in games up to the very end.

We certainly have the keeper and CB combination to stay up as we're difficult to break down but we also lack lots in the final third, people would really be optimstic to think we have a front three that is certain to fire us to safety.

I didnít see the Palace game but I think Bournemouth were able to play at a canter because our keeper had a head rush inside a minute and 10 minutes later the combo of a mistake and a huge deflection pretty much finished the game. Once we steadied ourselves, I thought we played really well. But for a shocking ref, weíd have most likely got a point even after the dreadful start. If not for both, I think weíd have won.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: wince on September 02, 2019, 01:36:51 PM
Well wolves have yet to win (have drawn 3 times) so on points nobody in Mordor is saying they will go down. Just need to grind this season out and actually wake up in games and play without fear.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on September 02, 2019, 01:43:25 PM
Huddersfield lost three of their first four games last season, and went down.

Yeah, but they're shit.
Palace lost first 7 on the trot 2 years ago and stayed up. Not worried yet.
Newcastle had 6 points after 11 games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 02, 2019, 01:49:00 PM
Could have easily got  a point against BM and even thou we were poor v Palace we should have got a point . so should be on 5 with just one defeat V spurzzzzz

so not worried but would like at least one  win in the next 2 games
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on September 02, 2019, 01:49:31 PM
Iím not too worried about our ability and I believe weíll be fine. I am more worried about the decisions in general in football by refs and VAR. Iíve not seen MOTD for quite some time due so have not seen much football other than our own. The standard so far is shocking, with this and the new handball rule itís quite alarmingly awful. I suppose weíre all having to put up with it, I just thought the standard would improve now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 02, 2019, 01:50:24 PM
in fact ask me again after Burley Norwich and Brighton
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SW9-VILLA on September 02, 2019, 02:00:32 PM
Not worried, the aim for this season is just to survive and then build for next season. It's going to be a long season and will always take getting used to after becoming accustomed to regular wins in the Championship. All the other promoted sides have started quite strongly as well which has added to the pressure on us. Fancy us to hit a run of form soon though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on September 02, 2019, 02:01:19 PM
Spurs - defended well but we were outplayed for most of the match,
 all this 'we will give it a go win lose or draw' well we lost but even though we scored first i never felt we gave it a go at any time which was the most disappointing thing for me, people have said what did you expect against spurs, well i expected us to have a go like what we were told we would under Smith

might have held on for a point, but didnt

Bournmouth - better performance, made mistakes which cost but we were the better team and felt that all was well when competing against teams at this level

deserved a point but didn't get one

Everton - good performance against a good side, not all our own way but overcame and won, felt very confident we could go on from this and improve

deserved to win and did

Crystal Palace - back to square one, a sending off and a awful ref decision giving us excuses for what was a piss poor performance,

might have come away with a point but didn't



still confident we will stay up if we believe in ourselves and play attacking football to win and not get over cautious
we have seen enough in spells to think we can take points from teams in this league to stay in it
 



 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Diablo on September 02, 2019, 02:37:32 PM
Huddersfield lost three of their first four games last season, and went down.

Yeah, but they're shit.
Palace lost first 7 on the trot 2 years ago and stayed up. Not worried yet.
But didn't they change managers after 6 matches by getting rid of De Boer and bringing in Hodgson though?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: sirlordbaltimore on September 02, 2019, 05:52:48 PM


Worried? Yes
Is it too early to panic? Yes
Is it too early to express concerns? No

We don't look at all like a team at the minute to my eyes.

Mings and Engels look decent, as does Heaton, we do however still keep conceding goals

The full backs don't fill me with confidence. One minute Gilbert looks amazing the next very ropey. Taylor is Taylor, pretty solid defensively but offers absolutely zero over the halfway line.

The midfield three hasn't looked 'on it' for any game yet. We're not getting games by the scruff of the neck and dominating the middle of the park. Something isn't right in there. There appears to be very little cohesion between them and a big lack of forward momentum. Too much side to side stuff that doesn't hurt the opposition one bit.

The wingers have been incredibly lightweight to the point you struggle to remember any decent crosses. I've always felt Anwar was, at best an impact player. But i expected a LOT more of Trez, he's not looked up to it at all apart from a few glimpses against Spurs where he should've scored. Jota isn't a wide player to my mind, always looks better coming inside which he does all the time meaning we have a huge hole where he should be. I'd play him in the hole ahead of a midfield four.

Wes, looks isolated and not the first choice striker we need to get the goals to stay up at the moment. The raw talent may be there, but it's not showing enough yet. We need to work on whatever his strengths are and play to them. And he needs to up his awareness of players around him as he's not seeing the passing opportunities he should be. Davis is Davis, looks good at everything but the bit that really matters for a striker.

And I don't think this formation were refusing to tinker with is working at this level at all.


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 02, 2019, 06:14:45 PM
If Dean gets us more on the front foot weíll be ok. I donít think weíre well suited to our style at the moment.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on September 02, 2019, 09:12:38 PM
Yes.
I don't think our squad is good enough or deep enough, we don't have enough possession and we don't create enough chances.
Our new signings are a mixed bag: Been impressed with Heaton, Engels and Guilbert, but Trezeguit and Wesley are simply not good enough at this level, Jota a bit player at best, El Ghazi poor.
Even after the euphoria of the Everton win I was'nt convinced and I think Smith's tactics of getting the ball to stick up top with players joining from midfield is flawed, we have to be able to change tactics for different situations, and I'm surprised I haven't seen enough of that from Smith.
We all, me included, want him so much to succeed, but I don't think our owners will want us to get too stranded near the foot before they start getting twitchy, hope it does'nt come to that but the West Ham game is becoming huge now before a trip to Arsenal, where we won't have much possession again.

Totally agree. In a way Iím comforted by the fact that our owners will act before things get too serious. Be sad to see a Deano go but the future of the club comes first.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Mister E on September 02, 2019, 09:22:42 PM
I think the main lessons from the first 4 games are:
- there are no easy games: B'mouth and CP have proved that point
- we need to toughen up a little: I'd like to see Marvelous and Luiz as two holding MF
- we need to look after the ball a whole lot better than we currently do
- Wes will get better; he has talent but needs the midfield a little furtther up the field, in support
- I'm not sure Jota or Trez are regular starters: both have a role to play, though.

I don't believe this is the time to panic, but  - clearly - we need to start accumulating more points.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 02, 2019, 09:28:03 PM
Yes.
I don't think our squad is good enough or deep enough, we don't have enough possession and we don't create enough chances.
Our new signings are a mixed bag: Been impressed with Heaton, Engels and Guilbert, but Trezeguit and Wesley are simply not good enough at this level, Jota a bit player at best, El Ghazi poor.
Even after the euphoria of the Everton win I was'nt convinced and I think Smith's tactics of getting the ball to stick up top with players joining from midfield is flawed, we have to be able to change tactics for different situations, and I'm surprised I haven't seen enough of that from Smith.
We all, me included, want him so much to succeed, but I don't think our owners will want us to get too stranded near the foot before they start getting twitchy, hope it does'nt come to that but the West Ham game is becoming huge now before a trip to Arsenal, where we won't have much possession again.

Totally agree. In a way Iím comforted by the fact that our owners will act before things get too serious. Be sad to see a Deano go but the future of the club comes first.

I seriously doubt if they will replace Smith any time soon.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 02, 2019, 09:30:38 PM
Four games, the squad's being written off and the manager sacked.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pete3206 on September 02, 2019, 09:36:15 PM
Incredible, but not surprising
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 09:40:15 PM
Mock those with concerns all you like but Smith is on thin ice, if anything he's lucky to still have a job. Winning 15 of the last 21 competitive games Villa have played is pretty unacceptable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: rob_bridge on September 02, 2019, 09:44:48 PM
Mock those with concerns all you like but Smith is on thin ice, if anything he's lucky to still have a job. Winning 15 of the last 21 competitive games Villa have played is pretty unacceptable.

Indeed we need someone with more Premier League experience. Brucie Ole and Warnock should all be considered
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on September 02, 2019, 09:47:11 PM


Worried? Yes
Is it too early to panic? Yes
Is it too early to express concerns? No

We don't look at all like a team at the minute to my eyes.

Mings and Engels look decent, as does Heaton, we do however still keep conceding goals

The full backs don't fill me with confidence. One minute Gilbert looks amazing the next very ropey. Taylor is Taylor, pretty solid defensively but offers absolutely zero over the halfway line.

The midfield three hasn't looked 'on it' for any game yet. We're not getting games by the scruff of the neck and dominating the middle of the park. Something isn't right in there. There appears to be very little cohesion between them and a big lack of forward momentum. Too much side to side stuff that doesn't hurt the opposition one bit.

The wingers have been incredibly lightweight to the point you struggle to remember any decent crosses. I've always felt Anwar was, at best an impact player. But i expected a LOT more of Trez, he's not looked up to it at all apart from a few glimpses against Spurs where he should've scored. Jota isn't a wide player to my mind, always looks better coming inside which he does all the time meaning we have a huge hole where he should be. I'd play him in the hole ahead of a midfield four.

Wes, looks isolated and not the first choice striker we need to get the goals to stay up at the moment. The raw talent may be there, but it's not showing enough yet. We need to work on whatever his strengths are and play to them. And he needs to up his awareness of players around him as he's not seeing the passing opportunities he should be. Davis is Davis, looks good at everything but the bit that really matters for a striker.

And I don't think this formation were refusing to tinker with is working at this level at all.

That's the way I see it too pretty much. I'm not sure Wesley is the kind of forward who will thrive on crosses anyway like Abraham used to. Prefers to drop short or run onto through balls like he did to great effect v Everton. Need to completely reconfigure our midfield over this break. 4231, with width coming from the fullbacks, the likes of Hourihane and Nakamba coming into midfield and a style of play that values keeping the ball.

Im not buying the small margins argument. Arguably given the sitters Everton missed against us, that was a somewhat fortunate result. Three points after four games is about right based on the performances thus far. Two of our losses were against sides I expect in the 8 team mini league at the bottom of the table.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 02, 2019, 09:57:21 PM
I think the main lessons from the first 4 games are:
- there are no easy games: B'mouth and CP have proved that point
- we need to toughen up a little: I'd like to see Marvelous and Luiz as two holding MF
- we need to look after the ball a whole lot better than we currently do
- Wes will get better; he has talent but needs the midfield a little furtther up the field, in support
- I'm not sure Jota or Trez are regular starters: both have a role to play, though.

I don't believe this is the time to panic, but  - clearly - we need to start accumulating more points.

This is it for me. We got rid of Jedinak (and to a lesser extent Whelan) because he can destroy but not create. If we play Luiz and Marvellous together we have players who can stop the opposition and allow our creative players to do what they do - also Luiz can't currently do it on his own. We need to do it. They will allow us to play football.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nii Lamptey on September 02, 2019, 10:02:03 PM
Just back from family holiday and caught up with the Palace highlights!

I'm not too concerned by our form as I think we'll come good under Deano in the end, but with the squad we've assembled, I'll be honest and admit that I thought we'd have had 3 wins out of 4 at this point.

Playing devils advocat, we could even be sat on ZERO points going into the break, as Everton could have easily turned us over if they'd had their shooting boots on.

Two key areas need to be addressed as soon as the January window opens for me - Striker and LB.

I like the look of Wesley, but he's going to blow hot and cold for a season at least for me. We need a proven goalscorer to ease the pressure on him.

And personally, I thought Taylor had performed pretty well so far this season until I saw the Palace highlights - What the actual fuck were both he and Trezeguet doing down that left. Sod all marking that's for sure! And I don't think Targett (a Southampton benchwarmer) is the answer either. We need a left footed Freddie.

Performances aren't important at the moment, they will come. What we really need to start doing is adding points on the board - Especially against teams such as Bournemouth and Palace.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on September 02, 2019, 10:05:15 PM
                     Heaton
Guilbert   Engels   Mings  Targett
           Nakamba    Luiz
              ?      SJM    Grealish
                     Wesley

The three behind Wesley would interchange. The question mark, at the moment, is most likely Jota or Trezeguet, although Hourihane/Lansbury might come in to that thinking.  I agree with others that we need a more solid and physical midfield.  Full back getting forward as much as they can.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: four fornicholl on September 02, 2019, 10:17:04 PM
Yes, midfield and attack are a serious worry.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 02, 2019, 10:18:20 PM
                     Heaton
Guilbert   Engels   Mings  Targett
           Nakamba    Luiz
              ?      SJM    Grealish
                     Wesley

The three behind Wesley would interchange. The question mark, at the moment, is most likely Jota or Trezeguet, although Hourihane/Lansbury might come in to that thinking.  I agree with others that we need a more solid and physical midfield.  Full back getting forward as much as they can.

I think Hourihane competes with Marvellous and, at a push, SJM & Grealish. It's Jota's for me, with AEG and Lansbury pushing him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on September 02, 2019, 10:39:40 PM
                     Heaton
Guilbert   Engels   Mings  Targett
           Nakamba    Luiz
              ?      SJM    Grealish
                     Wesley

The three behind Wesley would interchange. The question mark, at the moment, is most likely Jota or Trezeguet, although Hourihane/Lansbury might come in to that thinking.  I agree with others that we need a more solid and physical midfield.  Full back getting forward as much as they can.

I think Hourihane competes with Marvellous and, at a push, SJM & Grealish. It's Jota's for me, with AEG and Lansbury pushing him.
I like this, I would hope we can push Jack further forward and Iíd like to see Jota in there ahead of AEG or Trez.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Diablo on September 02, 2019, 11:25:40 PM
I think Hourihane needs to be playing. I think he was very unlucky to be dropped and besides his goal threat our set pieces are pretty dire without him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Oscar Arce on September 03, 2019, 09:28:19 AM
Four games, the squad's being written off and the manager sacked.

I didn't say that
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: in exile on September 03, 2019, 09:32:05 AM
I think Hourihane needs to be playing. I think he was very unlucky to be dropped and besides his goal threat our set pieces are pretty dire without him.
I agree
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 03, 2019, 09:42:00 AM
Jesus. 11 pages.

To answer the original question, an emphatic 'No!'. Though I'm slightly concerned we're letting Liverpool get too big an advantage so early. Beat them twice though and the gap's just 3 points.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nelly on September 03, 2019, 11:00:37 AM
Another resounding no from me. I think we have to hold our nerve a bit. If we allow that tension to creep in, it'll be evident at Villa Park and could affect player confidence. We've a long season ahead and we've shown signs of playing excellent football. We're definitely here to compete and that may mean a spanking or three along the way, and we are learning but I'm certain we will be okay.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AllanW on September 03, 2019, 11:01:44 AM
Another resounding no from me. I think we have to hold our nerve a bit. If we allow that tension to creep in, it'll be evident at Villa Park and could affect player confidence. We've a long season ahead and we've shown signs of playing excellent football. We're definitely here to compete and that may mean a spanking or three along the way, and we are learning but I'm certain we will be okay.

+1
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: stubbsyandy on September 03, 2019, 12:18:51 PM
We need to create more chances
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: supertom on September 03, 2019, 12:51:12 PM
We're not poor. We've not been totally outplayed by anyone. It was always going to take a good 10-15 to get into full swing. We just need patience. We also need to eradicate gifting the opposition. Silly sendings off, silly mistakes. The break gives us time to sit and reflect on addressing this and Smith getting tough. I'd like to see Grealish as one of the front 3 rather than midfield 3, because he'll affect things further up and we can put more presence in our midfield. Hourihane should come back in because he's a goal threat. In fact he's more of a threat than anyone else in the midfield probably. Luiz or Marvellous to sit and hold.

We envision Grealish, or Smith does, as a number 10. That's not happening in the current formation. He's more an 8 and he doesn't suit it. Where-as if you look at Liverpool as an example, they play three up top, and almost like 3 10's. No one is particularly wide, or focal.  I'd have Grealish on the left. He's then got the ability to take it down the line, or come in field and instigate things. CH or JM could have a bit of licence to pull wide to give some width if needed (more so if Taylor played over Targett say).

We didn't particularly warrant a point but we were robbed of a perfectly good goal. 4 points and 11th and we'd be quite happy I think. 3 points and bottom 3. It's too early to worry. We're fine margins at the moment. Defensively we're solid enough. The attack will come but for that we need our most effective players playing, and Conor offers too much to be playing on the bench. Not least set pieces. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: not3bad on September 03, 2019, 01:50:28 PM
If Jack Grealish's goal vs Crystal Palace had stood, as it should have, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ez on September 03, 2019, 04:24:58 PM
Well we're not nearly as bad as when we went down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on September 03, 2019, 05:24:39 PM
I am more concerned that Dean appears to have changed his game plan to one of sitting back and counter attacking.  There is constant pressure on the defence and when we do break we are nowhere near quick enough against mostly very athletic opposition.  4-2-3-1 - give the four licence to go forward more.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 03, 2019, 07:28:14 PM
I am more concerned that Dean appears to have changed his game plan to one of sitting back and counter attacking.  There is constant pressure on the defence and when we do break we are nowhere near quick enough against mostly very athletic opposition.  4-2-3-1 - give the four licence to go forward more.

I do agree with this.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 03, 2019, 10:39:17 PM
Yes, midfield and attack are a serious worry.

Midfield will be fine in time. I personally think McGinn with Engels have been comfortably our best two players so far. You've seen Luiz have some good games so more to come from him and Jack of course. Also get Nakamba in there soon.

It's the three forward positions that are the big issue. Nothing convincing to replace Wesley and whoever plays out wide is lacking consistancy e.g. Jota superb v Everton then we hardly see him down at the Palace.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on September 03, 2019, 10:54:31 PM
one of Jota, el Gharzi or Trez need to play well enough to make that position there own until that happens we will keep chopping and changing because none of them have been consistently good enough yet to chose between them

i know its early days but i'd like to see one of them nail down that spot
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 04, 2019, 09:33:45 PM
If Jack Grealish's goal vs Crystal Palace had stood, as it should have, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Jack didn't score, twas Lansbury
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: DrGonzo on September 04, 2019, 09:49:17 PM
No. New team, many players new to English football... patience please.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nunkin1965 on September 04, 2019, 10:32:29 PM
No. Not worried.Players still getting accustomed to it all and there is plenty of time for all concerned.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tim on September 05, 2019, 08:03:27 AM
No, not worried just slightly disappointed so far. Hard to expect great things from the start but I had a feeling we might have got a little more from the games we've played. Long way to go and they do look more impressive then the results/points suggest though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: WarszaVillan82 on September 05, 2019, 08:37:09 AM
All through the summer we were saying we had to be patient, let the new players settle in etc and that this season was one of survival. All this remains true. And if it all goes to shite the worst that happens is we return to the Championship again for a while. Not a disaster
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Duncan Shaw on September 05, 2019, 12:56:27 PM
I wasn't worried, and I don't think I am too much, we need to settle.  However I watched MOTD last night for the first time this season to see the Palace game reaction etc. and all the teams look pretty good - including the likes of Burnley.  They all seemed to create a lot more chances than we have been doing so far, so that needs to improve.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 15, 2019, 06:57:25 PM
The results over this match weekend really putting pressure on Villa now .
I think 4 points is what's necessary in the next two matches v West Ham and Arsenal.
3 points would be minimum as keeping above the relegation done is important even at this early stage and a win tommorow would be really encouraging all round.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 15, 2019, 07:08:39 PM
As it currently stands these clubs are the ones in the positions battling to stay in the premier league.
3 points tommorow v West ham sets up as competitive for top half finish and good platform to push on. It's a good indication to shows where we are in progress since start of season.
A draw isn't really taking us places though good to take us out of relegation zone .
But a home defeat is unthinkable and could set up a struggle in trying to climb the league into anything higher than lower mid table or simply be hovering in and around the relegation zone


13   Norwich  6pts GD-3
14   Burnley  5pts GD-1
15   Sheff Utd 5pts GD -1
16   Brighton 5pts GD-3
17   Newcastle 4pts GD -4
----------------------------------------
18   Aston Villa 3pts GD -2
19   Wolves 3pts GD-4
20   Watford 2pts GD -6


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 15, 2019, 07:55:31 PM
Results this weekend have showed itís going to be a hard year to stay up. 2 other promoted sides looking very good value, both better than us, and it looks a big ask to finish above 3 established PL sides. The shit ones arenít quite as shit as Iíd hoped either.

Having said that, I do expect us to improve more than a lot of other teams around us as the season goes on, because of the squad turnover.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pete3206 on September 15, 2019, 08:16:02 PM
A defeat at home is not unthinkable, it's very possible, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

We also have a good chance of a victory, but that wouldn't mean we're in for a comfortable mid table either.

A draw wouldn't be a bad result against West Ham. They've had an OK start.

Keep the faith in Dean & Co.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Davkaus on September 15, 2019, 08:42:54 PM
The shit ones arenít quite as shit as Iíd hoped either.


I agree with this. I'd hardly watched any PL football for the past 3 seasons, and it looks like I'd mentally adjusted what good football was for the Championship. Even the shit PL teams are faster, stronger and better with the ball than the dross we've been playing for years. It's a much bigger step up than I thought it'd be, and we don't look up to the job so far.  There's a very long way to go, but I don't see any way we won't be in the mix at the bottom come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Flin5tone on September 15, 2019, 09:03:14 PM
After this Weekends results I think 4 defeats in 5 would be a disaster. If we want to stay up we need to be getting three points tomorrow, 1 point would not be a disaster zero points would make me panic a little
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 15, 2019, 09:50:55 PM
Results this weekend have showed itís going to be a hard year to stay up. 2 other promoted sides looking very good value, both better than us, and it looks a big ask to finish above 3 established PL sides. The shit ones arenít quite as shit as Iíd hoped either.

Having said that, I do expect us to improve more than a lot of other teams around us as the season goes on, because of the squad turnover.

In regards to Sheff Utd and Norwich I feel villa are somewhere in between.


Sheffield U lost to Southampton this weekend then it is going to seriously advantage us if we take the 3 points tommorow . However they showed their qualities away to Chelsea coming back to 2-2 a few weeks ago in their last fixture.
And while Norwich had a good 3pt gain with win so deserved was the effort this weekend.

On some hand, this isn't good for Villa purposes as It would mean that Man City would be very tough when they come to Villa park even if they rest players.

On observation Sheffield United generally, for all there bluster and team ethic, are lacking much of a goal threat and their loss to Southampton was pretty poor by all accounts.
I have my thoughts on then which include  carrying on from last season , ultimately finding goals hard to come by
The midfield is made up of  lower table , relegation calibre players .
Wilder has them set up in a particular pattern , organised , and play in a specific way but arent a free scoring team. They showed that last season and are unlike Norwich .
I expect Villa to also outscore Sheff Utd come season end.

Norwich and notably Pukki just totally pose a threat when in attack.
I think if Abrahams had been signed then we could have seen a few more goals and points .

My concern is what Wesley , in particular, and the Villa attack offer. How sustained is it and how quick can the team develop and progress.
Now Dean Smith is well aware of this and being the front foot forward thinking manager I hope he continues in same form as Farke sticking to his principles.
Though I ,like many , think we can progress with our attacking football, and develop as season goes on its essential to have more dynamism and sustained periods of quality in our attacking football.
Tommorow will highlight the level we're at to some degree after West Ham beat Watford in an open contest a similar match could ensue but it's a case of Villa creating and taking chances.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 16, 2019, 07:03:48 AM
Iím always happy when a manager is never satisfied, as there is always something that can be improved and Dean Smith certainly has his feet on the ground and always talks about how we can improve.  This is really positive.

Steve Bruce lost me when he made the comment along the lines of it not being unexpected to go a month without winning in the Championship.  To progress you need realistic and honest assessments so you can identify changes that will improve performances, and even though there would be an element of Bruce trying to defend himself in public, making such statements only sends out the wrong message to everyone involved.

I like that Smithís comments donít try and hide the reality, and as he is an obviously intelligent and passionate manager then this gives me confidence that things will improve.

Having been a season ticket holder through some pretty dire seasons, I have been buzzing about going to every single match so far this season and long may that continue!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 08:03:23 AM
Spot on mate. Iíve been thinking the same over the weekend. Thatís the other reason I think we should improve as the season goes on - Smith is smart and self aware enough to respond to the need to adapt, then take action, and the players all seem like they take coaching well and are prepared to graft between games.

Itís nice to think we donít have a set up where weíll keep making the same mistakes all season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 16, 2019, 09:48:37 AM
We've had a clear fortnight without losing many players. I'm confident we've worked on tons of stuff in training.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 16, 2019, 12:41:30 PM
We have just had two seasons of finishing in the top six. We were always likely to lose more games in our first season back in the Premier League. Everybody at the club from the owners to the supporters has to keep their bottle this season. We may well take a couple of heavy beatings and we may well go through lean spells during the course of the season. But panicking is not an option. Anybody who is losing their bottle in September is in for a long hard stressful season. Tonight is exactly the sort of game we need to win this season (as was Bournemouth and Everton) but I would suggest that anyone who needs their tie and shoe laces taken off them for their own safety this early in the campaign isn't cut out to be a football fan and should take up fishing or bowls.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 16, 2019, 01:46:57 PM
Would have liked at least 1 more point, maybe 3. Tonight is big as all home games should be, 6 points from the next 4 games
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on September 16, 2019, 01:55:55 PM
We have just had two seasons of finishing in the top six. We were always likely to lose more games in our first season back in the Premier League. Everybody at the club from the owners to the supporters has to keep their bottle this season. We may well take a couple of heavy beatings and we may well go through lean spells during the course of the season. But panicking is not an option. Anybody who is losing their bottle in September is in for a long hard stressful season. Tonight is exactly the sort of game we need to win this season (as was Bournemouth and Everton) but I would suggest that anyone who needs their tie and shoe laces taken off them for their own safety this early in the campaign isn't cut out to be a football fan and should take up fishing or bowls.

I was fishing today. It was far less stressful than supporting Villa. And also far less enjoyable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: not3bad on September 16, 2019, 02:45:39 PM
I'm a bit on edge today I must admit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 16, 2019, 02:52:06 PM
I am excited.  Can't wait!  Another full Villa Park under the floodlights, crowd up for it, Jack and the lads determined to make up for Palace, the TV cameras on-hand and all eyes on us...

This is what we wanted last year, it's not going to be easy but it's a ride I'd rather be on than not.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on September 16, 2019, 03:32:47 PM
Lose tonight and I will start to become concerned ... we need points on the board
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pat Mustard on September 16, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
Worried? I can't bloody wait for every game!  We've got a manager and a team looking as committed as any side we've had in 20 years, Villa Park is absolutely rocking, and even if the worst does happen I've lost the fear of relegation as the Championship was great fun for the last 2 years.

I say we go out every week without fear, players and supporters.  We've got so much going for us right now that we have to keep it going even if results go against us - stick to what we are doing and we will be more than alright.  The absolute worst thing we could do is start to get worried and retreat into our shells.  If results go against us then just get louder, play more aggressively and make others worry about us.  What was it Dean said last season about not just winning this game, but putting fear into your next opponents?  That's what I want to hear from everyone.

I'll leave you with this - imagine being a West Ham fan leaving Villa Park tonight having tasted the atmosphere we will generate. Then imagine having to go back and play in that soulless dome at the weekend.  I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

Worried?  Not a chance.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 16, 2019, 04:37:10 PM
We have just had two seasons of finishing in the top six. We were always likely to lose more games in our first season back in the Premier League. Everybody at the club from the owners to the supporters has to keep their bottle this season. We may well take a couple of heavy beatings and we may well go through lean spells during the course of the season. But panicking is not an option. Anybody who is losing their bottle in September is in for a long hard stressful season. Tonight is exactly the sort of game we need to win this season (as was Bournemouth and Everton) but I would suggest that anyone who needs their tie and shoe laces taken off them for their own safety this early in the campaign isn't cut out to be a football fan and should take up fishing or bowls.

I was fishing today. It was far less stressful than supporting Villa. And also far less enjoyable.


I have only been fishing once. On a lovely day on my uncle's mate's boat off the coast of Australia. I was bored shitless. I was only seventeen but realised there and then that if I didn't enjoy fishing in those circumsatances I was never going to be one of those people who gets up at 5am on a Sunday morning to go fishing in the rain in England.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 16, 2019, 04:38:17 PM
Worried? I can't bloody wait for every game!  We've got a manager and a team looking as committed as any side we've had in 20 years, Villa Park is absolutely rocking, and even if the worst does happen I've lost the fear of relegation as the Championship was great fun for the last 2 years.

I say we go out every week without fear, players and supporters.  We've got so much going for us right now that we have to keep it going even if results go against us - stick to what we are doing and we will be more than alright.  The absolute worst thing we could do is start to get worried and retreat into our shells.  If results go against us then just get louder, play more aggressively and make others worry about us.  What was it Dean said last season about not just winning this game, but putting fear into your next opponents?  That's what I want to hear from everyone.

I'll leave you with this - imagine being a West Ham fan leaving Villa Park tonight having tasted the atmosphere we will generate. Then imagine having to go back and play in that soulless dome at the weekend.  I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

Worried?  Not a chance.


That's the attitude we need. Excellent rallying call to the masses.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dr Butler on September 16, 2019, 04:40:14 PM
Worried? I can't bloody wait for every game!  We've got a manager and a team looking as committed as any side we've had in 20 years, Villa Park is absolutely rocking, and even if the worst does happen I've lost the fear of relegation as the Championship was great fun for the last 2 years.

I say we go out every week without fear, players and supporters.  We've got so much going for us right now that we have to keep it going even if results go against us - stick to what we are doing and we will be more than alright.  The absolute worst thing we could do is start to get worried and retreat into our shells.  If results go against us then just get louder, play more aggressively and make others worry about us.  What was it Dean said last season about not just winning this game, but putting fear into your next opponents?  That's what I want to hear from everyone.

I'll leave you with this - imagine being a West Ham fan leaving Villa Park tonight having tasted the atmosphere we will generate. Then imagine having to go back and play in that soulless dome at the weekend.  I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

Worried?  Not a chance.

spot on Pat....

UTV
The Doc
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 16, 2019, 04:54:28 PM
Can be optimistic that's great an' all however my over riding concern is the quality. And the levels and standard needed by the villa players .
I'm all for supporting and to have such belief and good vibes I just feel some top quality premier level is lacking . Dean Smith says himself haven't been good enough. I wondering if some can be good enough.
That's not me question Dean Smith he knows how it is and what he wants to do
West Ham may be going back to a souless stadium but I sooner have Haller as the striker than Wesley.
However these are enthusiastic times and I just want villa to play and perform to required potential we do that and they'll be no worries all round !
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on September 16, 2019, 05:11:34 PM
I say we go out every week without fear, players and supporters.

I'll be bloody worried if we go out every week without players!  Especially if the stadium is empty!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: gpbarr on September 16, 2019, 06:09:11 PM
Lose tonight and I will start to become concerned ... we need points on the board

IF we lose tonight, we will be 3 points off mid table having played teams 2nd, 3rd, 9th, 11th, and 12th.
IF we win tonight, we will be mid table still having played none of the teams in the bottom 7.

Worried - not!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on September 16, 2019, 06:11:44 PM
Win or lose, up the fucking Villa!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: jwarry on September 16, 2019, 06:24:01 PM
Worried? I can't bloody wait for every game!  We've got a manager and a team looking as committed as any side we've had in 20 years, Villa Park is absolutely rocking, and even if the worst does happen I've lost the fear of relegation as the Championship was great fun for the last 2 years.

I say we go out every week without fear, players and supporters.  We've got so much going for us right now that we have to keep it going even if results go against us - stick to what we are doing and we will be more than alright.  The absolute worst thing we could do is start to get worried and retreat into our shells.  If results go against us then just get louder, play more aggressively and make others worry about us.  What was it Dean said last season about not just winning this game, but putting fear into your next opponents?  That's what I want to hear from everyone.

I'll leave you with this - imagine being a West Ham fan leaving Villa Park tonight having tasted the atmosphere we will generate. Then imagine having to go back and play in that soulless dome at the weekend.  I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

Worried?  Not a chance.

spot on Pat....

UTV
The Doc

Yes excellent post Colonel, and spare a thought if you were a dingle too, are they worried?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on September 16, 2019, 10:16:27 PM
Worried? I can't bloody wait for every game!  We've got a manager and a team looking as committed as any side we've had in 20 years, Villa Park is absolutely rocking, and even if the worst does happen I've lost the fear of relegation as the Championship was great fun for the last 2 years.

I say we go out every week without fear, players and supporters.  We've got so much going for us right now that we have to keep it going even if results go against us - stick to what we are doing and we will be more than alright.  The absolute worst thing we could do is start to get worried and retreat into our shells.  If results go against us then just get louder, play more aggressively and make others worry about us.  What was it Dean said last season about not just winning this game, but putting fear into your next opponents?  That's what I want to hear from everyone.

I'll leave you with this - imagine being a West Ham fan leaving Villa Park tonight having tasted the atmosphere we will generate. Then imagine having to go back and play in that soulless dome at the weekend.  I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

Worried?  Not a chance.

Great fun in the championship? Revisionism comes to mind...The club was weeks away from bankruptcy at one point during all the fun
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 16, 2019, 10:19:54 PM
The last few months were bloody ace.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2019, 10:55:17 PM
We're competing well.

Defensively I think we're looking very solid, one goal conceded in three games.

More to come from midfield, Marvellous had a decent debut so another option for DM or box to box now.

But goodness me the decision not to sign another attacking player is very baffling to me and it's starting to hurt us. Tonight with 10 men to play for last 20 minutes we only had one attacking player on the bench and he's scored about 4 goals in two championship seasons.

Going to be a struggle to win games up to January I'm afraid for all our promising play.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: amfy on September 16, 2019, 11:09:46 PM
We're competing well.

Defensively I think we're looking very solid, one goal conceded in three games.

More to come from midfield, Marvellous had a decent debut so another option for DM or box to box now.

But goodness me the decision not to sign another attacking player is very baffling to me and it's starting to hurt us. Tonight with 10 men to play for last 20 minutes we only had one attacking player on the bench and he's scored about 4 goals in two championship seasons.

Going to be a struggle to win games up to January I'm afraid for all our promising play.

The actual shot count in the game though was that they had 13 to our 10, but 5 of ours were on target and only one of theirs. Some of our best chances donít even his that count e.g. the Grealish chance near the end was a whisker from being a goal but was not any kind of shot. The team are clearly working hard on improving which is currently getting us into scoring positions, and for me, sooner or later those start to go in.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: passport1 on September 16, 2019, 11:14:14 PM
A little concerned as to where our goals are going to come from on tonight's showing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 11:15:02 PM
Fair point amfy but in the other hand out actual shots on goal weíre all woeful! (with the exception of SJMís low shot, which fabianski did well to get a hand to).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on September 16, 2019, 11:17:29 PM
Their 13 shots takes us to 90 shots conceded in 5 games which is second highest after Arsenal. We need to reduce that however it's not effecting us negatively.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 16, 2019, 11:17:39 PM
A little concerned as to where our goals are going to come from on tonight's showing.

A bit depressing that the thing thatís fucking us is the exact thing everyone said would fuck us at the start of the season. I wanted to be proved wrong about that, as I hoped we were being run by super smart people.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 16, 2019, 11:18:08 PM
I am a bit concerned
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2019, 11:18:10 PM
Our corner count must be really low this season. Pretty sure the Everton and Spurs games we didn't have any and can't imagine we had that many v Palace when down to 10 men.

Tonight all I can remember is one in first half we took very quickly and one right at the end when West Ham defender nearly scored an OG. When you're struggling to create much from open play then set plays become pretty important. We scored loads from them last season but hardly getting any corners to work with this season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 16, 2019, 11:54:38 PM
Our corner count must be really low this season. Pretty sure the Everton and Spurs games we didn't have any and can't imagine we had that many v Palace when down to 10 men.

Tonight all I can remember is one in first half we took very quickly and one right at the end when West Ham defender nearly scored an OG. When you're struggling to create much from open play then set plays become pretty important. We scored loads from them last season but hardly getting any corners to work with this season.

Season stats
Corners:
Lowest in league on corners 14 taken. (20th)
lowest in league with 11 attempts from set pieces (20th)

Shots
21 on target (joint 10th)
55 shots (joint 14th)
26 in the box (19th )

Goals
Joint Second lowest with 4 goals (joint 19th)
3 inside box (joint lowest)
1 outside box
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 16, 2019, 11:59:27 PM
Amazed we've had as many as 14, majority of those must've come in the Bournemouth game when we had a decent amount.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 17, 2019, 12:05:28 AM
Corners v Bournemouth 10
V Palace 2
V West Ham 2
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 17, 2019, 12:08:30 AM
I think most of us felt that despite what seemed to be a very productive summer in the transfer market the one worry was that we should have signed another striker. We might regret not signing Maupay.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 12:31:09 AM
The lack of attacking options continues to be a big problem.  Wesley is no where near the finished article, and at the moment just looks like a big lump holding the ball up.  El Ghazi is poor at this level, and Jota is lightweight and mostly ineffective.  Bringing Davis on isn't ever going to lead to many goals I fear.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: usav on September 17, 2019, 12:38:57 AM
Yes, part of Wesleyís issue is the formation, heís really isolated up there on his own.

I want to find a way to get Marvelous and Douglas in the team at the same time., if that means moving Jack higher up the pitch, so be it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 12:41:20 AM
Yes, part of Wesleyís issue is the formation, heís really isolated up there on his own.

I want to find a way to get Marvelous and Douglas in the team at the same time., if that means moving Jack higher up the pitch, so be it.

Jack absolutely should be higher up the pitch.  I'd also like to see Luiz and Marvelous start, so would think about moving Jack further up instead of either El Ghazi or Jota, both of whom were pretty crap tonight.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Flin5tone on September 17, 2019, 12:53:30 AM
After tonight, yes.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: in exile on September 17, 2019, 08:03:12 AM
After tonight, yes.

Welcome to the dark side
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 17, 2019, 08:23:39 AM
We are going to regret not buying another striker

To currently have the options of Wesley and Davis is nowhere near enough.

Our build up play is also so slow and predictable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: jwarry on September 17, 2019, 08:49:04 AM
We are going to regret not buying another striker

To currently have the options of Wesley and Davis is nowhere near enough.

Our build up play is also so slow and predictable.

Itís still too early to judge this team as itís so new and Dean will need time to turn them into a team rather than a set of individuals. The problem is that the PL doesnít give you any time and the worry is he starts tinkering and panicking but I suspect he will stick to his principles. Does anybody know how wedded he has been to this 433 at his previous clubs?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on September 17, 2019, 08:59:42 AM
Already 9 point away from Liverpool after 5 games....not acceptable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on September 17, 2019, 09:03:31 AM
I'm not panicking as I still think we're a decent side with a good manager.  But I do think it will be touch and go - I'm not sure there are three worse teams than us.  I still think we'll be somewhere between 15 -19.  Right now if I was another relegation candidate I'd be looking at Villa as a team we'd hope to finish above.

I've always putting all our eggs in the Wesley basket was a huge risk and it's clear we are short of a striker and winger.  I just hope we can stay with the pack until January and strengthen then.

With all that said I do think there will be some games where we click and things would change very quickly if we could put a bit of a run together.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ajmant on September 17, 2019, 09:07:56 AM
Difficult match to assess last night.

I thought the central defensive pairing looked excellent last night. Guilbert was excellent as well, although he was caught out a couple of times pushing forward. I thought Taylor was fine defensively and Heaton untroubled all night. In the middle Marvellous was excellent I though apart from his one horrendous cross field pass, Grealish and McGinn weren't on it, although McGinn worked so so hard. Jack was forcing things too much although at times his options were limited. Out wide we really struggled, and Wes just doesn't have the pace to worry defenders. I thought he showed his strength really well with some excellent pinged passes out wide, but he just looks clumsy at times.

Long hard season ahead, which we knew it would be, but I cant see us scoring many goals which is a real worry.

Tempo of the games are noticeably quicker than last season, with better touches from most players. 

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ajmant on September 17, 2019, 09:08:22 AM
So yes worried!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mr underhill on September 17, 2019, 09:12:43 AM
it's the lack of goals that will do for us, if anything. changing formation may help, but I can see us panic buying in January and paying through thee nose.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 17, 2019, 09:17:16 AM
I hate this thread.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 09:20:05 AM
I hate this thread.

Don't read it then?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brian green on September 17, 2019, 09:32:49 AM
I love it.  Makes me feel calm.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 17, 2019, 09:37:32 AM
I don't see another 3pts coming till 19th October at home to Brighton.
Doesn't mean we won't pick up a point between now and then Arsenal a, Burnley h, Norwich (a) and we need too as after the Brighton home match have Man City a and the Liverpool home.

It may get worse before it gets better and a case for the recruited players needing to gel ,and get use to playing alongside each other . Aside from this the exact playing method and style Deano being implemented means patience is required I guess.
The great thing is had the win v Everton and showed glimpses and periods of decent play in all the matches. I think things will improve however it'll take a bit of time. I have reservations about the attacking goal threat and quality  but I don't have any reservations about Dean Smith what so ever .  So that's where my faith is in respect to doing ok , being competitive and remaining in premier league come season end.


 

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 17, 2019, 09:39:31 AM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: richtheholtender on September 17, 2019, 09:39:32 AM
It would be interesting to know how people would have viewed things generally if palace had not of beaten united, Norwich beaten Man City and Newcastle gone to spurs and won. All results that not many would have predicted. We could do with an ďexpected winĒ ourselves. Letís just hope we get one at the Emirates.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 17, 2019, 09:43:59 AM
It would be interesting to know how people would have viewed things generally if palace had not of beaten united, Norwich beaten Man City and Newcastle gone to spurs and won. All results that not many would have predicted. We could do with an ďexpected winĒ ourselves. Letís just hope we get one at the Emirates.

Well if we had held on against Spurs for a win or a point , beaten Bournemouth , drawn at Palace and won last night v West Ham then I know we be viewing things as successful and with far less questioning than the actual
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Scovilla on September 17, 2019, 10:02:00 AM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.
Agree. Marvellous and Luiw together would allow jack and john mc ginn to play higher and not tire too soon in the game. JMG disappeared 2nd half.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: lovejoy on September 17, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
A lot of bed wetting going on.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa75 on September 17, 2019, 10:17:28 AM
It would be interesting to know how people would have viewed things generally if palace had not of beaten united, Norwich beaten Man City and Newcastle gone to spurs and won. All results that not many would have predicted. We could do with an ďexpected winĒ ourselves. Letís just hope we get one at the Emirates.

Well if we had held on against Spurs for a win or a point , beaten Bournemouth , drawn at Palace and won last night v West Ham then I know we be viewing things as successful and with far less questioning than the actual


Absolute genius. 😂😂

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 17, 2019, 10:59:14 AM
- I'm not sure there are three worse teams than us. 

We're 4th bottom, so yes, there are.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on September 17, 2019, 11:14:40 AM
I actually thought we looked the most solid as a defensive unit so far this season. West Ham barely looked like scoring and Heaton had little to do. It's the second clean sheet but we rode our luck not to concede against Everton and Palace could have got more. I think Nakamba made a difference protecting, he's got a quicker turn of pace, he's snappier in the tackle and his positional sense is better than Hourahane and Douglas in that defensive position. Those 2 will be more effective further up the field, I'm sure a damn sight more effective than anyone that has played those wing positions so far. The formation we play cries out for quality on those wings, players that won't give the ball away cheaply and will create for others and score goals themselves. We're seeing none of that at the moment, Wesley looks isolated (and I think he'll be a good player with the right support), and I have to say so far Grealish is not having the impact in that attacking midfield role.
Ultimately it's the creativity and lack of quality and numbers in the final third that is letting us down. We need much better from the wingers, better players there or we need to tweak the formation from an attacking point of view.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on September 17, 2019, 11:32:06 AM
- I'm not sure there are three worse teams than us. 

We're 4th bottom, so yes, there are.
What a daft comment.  Just because there's 3 teams with fewer points after 5 games doesn't mean there are 3 worse teams.  Do you truly think we're a better team than Wolves with our current squads?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 17, 2019, 11:36:36 AM
- I'm not sure there are three worse teams than us. 

We're 4th bottom, so yes, there are.

By that logic if we lose to Arsenal and find ourselves in the bottom 3 you'll be saying we'll be relegated as we'll be one of the worst 3 teams?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 17, 2019, 11:50:05 AM
There is nothing wrong with playing one up front, as Spurs have shown. What we need to do is get Grealish and McGinn into the games in the danger areas like Spurs do with Ali, Son and Eriksen. Surely  the whole idea of playing just one up front is to give a couple of attacking midfielders the freedom and licence to attack.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 17, 2019, 12:11:21 PM
- I'm not sure there are three worse teams than us. 

We're 4th bottom, so yes, there are.
What a daft comment.  Just because there's 3 teams with fewer points after 5 games doesn't mean there are 3 worse teams.  Do you truly think we're a better team than Wolves with our current squads?

So how do you measure that teams are better or worse. So far three other teams have done worse than we have and you could well argue that we'd be higher in the table given our performances against Palace, Bournemouth and to a lesser extent Spurs.

The league is measured on points and where you finish.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 17, 2019, 12:12:48 PM
- I'm not sure there are three worse teams than us. 

We're 4th bottom, so yes, there are.

By that logic if we lose to Arsenal and find ourselves in the bottom 3 you'll be saying we'll be relegated as we'll be one of the worst 3 teams?

If you extrapolate it across the season, yes we would.

I don't think we're one of the worst 3 and I don't think we've got what we deserved from games but what you deserve and what you get are two different things.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on September 17, 2019, 12:23:39 PM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.
Agree. Marvellous and Luiw together would allow jack and john mc ginn to play higher and not tire too soon in the game. JMG disappeared 2nd half.

The trouble is, the only way you get Nakamba, Luis, Grealish and McGinn in the same side is if you do away with wingers and rely on the full backs to provide the width.  Guilbert can probably do that, but I don't think Taylor's got it in him.  It will also put our centre backs under more pressure.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on September 17, 2019, 12:34:29 PM
- I'm not sure there are three worse teams than us. 

We're 4th bottom, so yes, there are.
What a daft comment.  Just because there's 3 teams with fewer points after 5 games doesn't mean there are 3 worse teams.  Do you truly think we're a better team than Wolves with our current squads?

So how do you measure that teams are better or worse. So far three other teams have done worse than we have and you could well argue that we'd be higher in the table given our performances against Palace, Bournemouth and to a lesser extent Spurs.

The league is measured on points and where you finish.
I make a judgement on how well teams play, not a black and white analysis of results after 5 games (where of course all teams have had different fixtures etc).  Based on how we have played so far and taking account the strenth of our squad then as I stated I'm not convinced there are three worse teams than us at the moment.  If you think Wolves are, well ok but I doubt many will agree.

If your contribution to this thread will be an update on where we stand in the league each week then fair enough, but it's hardly an informed view of how good we are or where we are likley to end up this season, which was my interpretation of what this thread was really about.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 17, 2019, 12:49:31 PM
I also think that we'll stay up, but I don't think you can base anything on a league table after 5 games, our current points per game says we're both wrong that we'll stay up if we do base it on the current table as we'll finish with 30 or 31 points. 3 teams currently being below us is as meaningless as that ppg or us losing and being bottom 3 after Arsenal, which I doubt will have either of us thinking we'll be relegated.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 17, 2019, 12:56:58 PM
Worried? I can't bloody wait for every game!  We've got a manager and a team looking as committed as any side we've had in 20 years, Villa Park is absolutely rocking, and even if the worst does happen I've lost the fear of relegation as the Championship was great fun for the last 2 years.

I say we go out every week without fear, players and supporters.  We've got so much going for us right now that we have to keep it going even if results go against us - stick to what we are doing and we will be more than alright.  The absolute worst thing we could do is start to get worried and retreat into our shells.  If results go against us then just get louder, play more aggressively and make others worry about us.  What was it Dean said last season about not just winning this game, but putting fear into your next opponents?  That's what I want to hear from everyone.

I'll leave you with this - imagine being a West Ham fan leaving Villa Park tonight having tasted the atmosphere we will generate. Then imagine having to go back and play in that soulless dome at the weekend.  I know whose shoes I'd rather be in.

Worried?  Not a chance.

Great fun in the championship? Revisionism comes to mind...The club was weeks away from bankruptcy at one point during all the fun

I don't get how the club's financial status prevented us enjoying winning more games per season than we had since the Martin O'Neil years...
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: danno on September 17, 2019, 01:01:55 PM
I also think that we'll stay up, but I don't think you can base anything on a league table after 5 games,

Or ten. Last season after ten games Newcastle had three points. Three draws, seven defeats. They finished 13th.

I think there's more to come from us, think we'll take a hiding or two along the way but am still cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 17, 2019, 01:04:29 PM
We are going to regret not buying another striker

To currently have the options of Wesley and Davis is nowhere near enough.

Our build up play is also so slow and predictable.

As has been discussed a lot already, the board and manager both wanted to reinforce the attack but as they have publicly stated the right deal for the right player did not come up.  This wasn't a belief that we didn't need to buy, but a belief that chucking money up the wall ( again ) for the sake of it was not the answer.

They will be sitting there wishing that they had been able to get something over the line without doubt.  But there's a big difference between running a team and running a whole football club and unfortunately in the real world there are other considerations.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ger Regan on September 17, 2019, 01:04:30 PM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.
Agree. Marvellous and Luiw together would allow jack and john mc ginn to play higher and not tire too soon in the game. JMG disappeared 2nd half.

The trouble is, the only way you get Nakamba, Luis, Grealish and McGinn in the same side is if you do away with wingers and rely on the full backs to provide the width.  Guilbert can probably do that, but I don't think Taylor's got it in him.  It will also put our centre backs under more pressure.
Targett might have it in him, though. Right now the wide players are totally ineffective, so it's worth a go.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 17, 2019, 01:07:58 PM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.

I thought the end of the game yesterday was crying out for Hourihane.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on September 17, 2019, 01:08:37 PM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.
Agree. Marvellous and Luiw together would allow jack and john mc ginn to play higher and not tire too soon in the game. JMG disappeared 2nd half.

The trouble is, the only way you get Nakamba, Luis, Grealish and McGinn in the same side is if you do away with wingers and rely on the full backs to provide the width.  Guilbert can probably do that, but I don't think Taylor's got it in him.  It will also put our centre backs under more pressure.


I would get rid of the wingers . I wouldnt say Jota is a winger , he hasnt got the pace anyway so Id drop him but I reckon we need to get Targett in there as he could do the job at left back.

Id go 4 2 3 1   and get SJM , Conor  and JG to support Wes more and some crosses from the full backs .  I thought Marvelous for his first game looks a good player  .

We have to support Wes .

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 17, 2019, 01:14:07 PM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.

I thought the end of the game yesterday was crying out for Hourihane.

Either him or Lansbury would have been a good idea.  We had a man advantage, but completely failed to make that count and just swapped one ineffective winger for another.  We should have been looking to swamp the midfield, but persisted with the same tactics that weren't working.  At times towards the end of the second half we had four or five players in our own half doing nothing.  Grealish was clearly frustrated, and when he gets frustrated he starts to try too hard, and his game goes to pot.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on September 17, 2019, 01:45:59 PM
We need to get Conor in there somewhere for his delivery , set pieces and goals . especially If we can play Marvelous and Luis together with Jack and Conor further up.   Jota and EGZ are very poor at the moment , easily pushed off the ball . Id leave Trez on the bench for now too.

I thought the end of the game yesterday was crying out for Hourihane.

Either him or Lansbury would have been a good idea.  We had a man advantage, but completely failed to make that count and just swapped one ineffective winger for another.  We should have been looking to swamp the midfield, but persisted with the same tactics that weren't working.  At times towards the end of the second half we had four or five players in our own half doing nothing.  Grealish was clearly frustrated, and when he gets frustrated he starts to try too hard, and his game goes to pot.

Agree with all these post. The wide men are currently not very effective so why not try midfielder alternatives
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dogtanian on September 17, 2019, 01:55:04 PM
Lots of people predicted that we'd get 'found out' and battered every game, but no one has looked like thrashing us so far and our performances are getting better bit by bit.

Home form - 4 points from 3 games, two of which were against top 10 teams last season who have both spent this summer, and the third we were the better team but a couple of silly nervous mistakes cost us two early goals.  Two clean sheets is nothing to be sniffed at in this league either, in fact our last season in the Prem we only kept 6 all season.

Away form - 0 points from 2 games, one of which was against the European runners-up and other could easily have been a draw, one way or another.

Neither of those records is anything to cry about.  The Bournemouth game is the big regret because it was two silly mistakes so early that denied us three points that would have us around mid-table and no-one would be bothering with this thread.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: qwerty on September 18, 2019, 03:17:09 PM
My take on Villa thus far.

Positive:
Villa have a reasonable defence, but it frequently comes under excessive pressure.

Negative:
1. No defined style of play.
2. No proven goalscorers.
3. Midfield lacks coordination in build-up play (see 1).
4. Compared to other Premiership teams Villa appear tentative. They repeatedly fail to impose themselves on the opposition (as with 10 man West Ham), preferring to re-enact their version of the Battle of of the Alamo (as seen at Crystal Palace. Never mind the terrible refereeing, Villa should have lost by several goals).

Outlook:
Unless:
(i) a defined style is introduced with joined up midfield play, suitable for combating Premiership teams and
(ii) the attack is strengthened to enable Villa to score more goals, then there is only one possible outcome, relegation.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 18, 2019, 03:38:26 PM
My take on Villa thus far.

Positive:
Villa have a reasonable defence, but it frequently comes under excessive pressure.

Negative:
1. No defined style of play.
2. No proven goalscorers.
3. Midfield lacks coordination in build-up play (see 1).
4. Compared to other Premiership teams Villa appear tentative. They repeatedly fail to impose themselves on the opposition (as with 10 man West Ham), preferring to re-enact their version of the Battle of of the Alamo (as seen at Crystal Palace. Never mind the terrible refereeing, Villa should have lost by several goals).

Outlook:
Unless:
(i) a defined style is introduced with joined up midfield play, suitable for combating Premiership teams and
(ii) the attack is strengthened to enable Villa to score more goals, then there is only one possible outcome, relegation.
The Villa.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on September 18, 2019, 03:46:27 PM
I don't understand how we went from having a define style of play last season to no style at all this season.

The jump was huge, no doubt, but surely we should have an ethos here - whether we carried it with us from the Championship or re-calibrated during the summer.

How have we just regressed to sending XI lads out on the pitch again in the hopes that they'll string moves together as if by magic?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 18, 2019, 03:52:21 PM
Lots of people predicted that we'd get 'found out' and battered every game, but no one has looked like thrashing us so far and our performances are getting better bit by bit.

Home form - 4 points from 3 games, two of which were against top 10 teams last season who have both spent this summer, and the third we were the better team but a couple of silly nervous mistakes cost us two early goals.  Two clean sheets is nothing to be sniffed at in this league either, in fact our last season in the Prem we only kept 6 all season.

Away form - 0 points from 2 games, one of which was against the European runners-up and other could easily have been a draw, one way or another.

Neither of those records is anything to cry about.  The Bournemouth game is the big regret because it was two silly mistakes so early that denied us three points that would have us around mid-table and no-one would be bothering with this thread.

Did anybody predict that we'd get battered every game?  Certainly nobody on here that I can recall.  I'm not sure our performances are improving to be honest.  They've all been similar, but I'd argue that Everton and Bournemouth (silly mistakes aside) were the best.  The recurring theme, and that was one theory that was stated on here, is that our attacking options aren't great and we'll struggle to score goals.

All of Wesley, Davis, Trez, Jota and El Ghazi have big question marks against them.  At best, they're going to take time to come to terms with the Premier League.  At worst, they're just not good enough.  That's all of our front three and back ups that have been disappointing so far.  Two goals in five games between them.  I don't think we'll get battered very often if ever, as Heaton, Mings, Engels and Guilbert are all excellent.  The problems are at the other end of the pitch.  It's disappointing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chris Smith on September 18, 2019, 03:56:28 PM
Itís a new team; new to each other and new to the country in many cases. There is obviously going to be a period of adjustment there are clear signs of how we want to play which is based on a solid defence and an ability to quickly turn defence into attack as our goals against Everton showed. Itís not fully functioning yet but it would be a surprise if it was given that theyíve only played together 5 times and some fewer than that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 18, 2019, 04:50:29 PM
Looking at our next four fixtures if we can carry on keeping things tight at the back we could get something from the Arsenal game. I don't think they offer too much so long as you can keep their front two quiet (which admittedly is easier said than done). We have to fancy ourselves to win our two home games against Burnley and Brighton. I also fancy us to get something at Norwich. I would be more worried if I was a Norwich fan than I am as a Villa fan. They have been the great entertainers so far this season but they are conceding too many goals. The 'you score two and we will score three' spirit is not something they will get away with over a full season in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on September 18, 2019, 05:30:53 PM
My take on Villa thus far.

Positive:
Villa have a reasonable defence, but it frequently comes under excessive pressure.

Negative:
1. No defined style of play.
2. No proven goalscorers.
3. Midfield lacks coordination in build-up play (see 1).
4. Compared to other Premiership teams Villa appear tentative. They repeatedly fail to impose themselves on the opposition (as with 10 man West Ham), preferring to re-enact their version of the Battle of of the Alamo (as seen at Crystal Palace. Never mind the terrible refereeing, Villa should have lost by several goals).

Outlook:
Unless:
(i) a defined style is introduced with joined up midfield play, suitable for combating Premiership teams and
(ii) the attack is strengthened to enable Villa to score more goals, then there is only one possible outcome, relegation.

As soon as I got to the line that Villa should have lost by several goals to Palace I stopped reading because I don't get why some fans seem to think that any half-decent chance a team creates can be used as 'moral defeat' when they're trying to make a point. We conceded 1 and should've scored 1 but for one of the worst decisions any of us will ever see, we were robbed of a point despite not playing as well as we'd like. You add nothing to an argument by giving the opposition bonus goals.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on September 18, 2019, 07:50:39 PM
I'm not worried but like one or two others have said, I do wonder where the goals are coming from and also think that Jack and SJM are both playing too deep.  Taylor has done fine defensively but offers nothing going forward.  I'd like to see the following formation with the three behind the striker interchanging positions and the full backs getting forward quickly to support.  Hourihane gets the nod for his ability to get into the box and for his set pieces but Trezeguet would also do well in there too. 

                      Heaton
Guilbert   Engels    Mings    Targett
          Nakamba      Douglas
      Grealish   McGinn  Hourihane
                     Wesley
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: in exile on September 22, 2019, 06:30:08 PM
NOW are you worried?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 22, 2019, 06:30:56 PM
Mildly.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: aj2k77 on September 22, 2019, 06:31:39 PM
NOW are you worried?

No, we lost away at Arsenal, with 32 games to go.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: VillaAlways on September 22, 2019, 06:31:49 PM
NOW are you worried?
Yes. Reminded me of Leicester in our relegation season
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 22, 2019, 06:34:37 PM
Very worried now.  It won't be long until the players' confidence disappears, and the atmosphere in the ground turns negative.  That was utterly shit today.  Two games in a row now against ten men, and one point to show for it.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 22, 2019, 06:39:43 PM
I am not going to panic after a defeat away to Arsenal, even if they did have a man sent off. The next three games against Burnley, Norwich and Brighton are massive. Struggle in those three and we will know it is looking likely to be a relegation battle.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 06:40:27 PM
Very worried now.  It won't be long until the players' confidence disappears, and the atmosphere in the ground turns negative.  That was utterly shit today.  Two games in a row now against ten men, and one point to show for it.

Get some Tena on your next supermarket trip. We've a lot of games to go.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 06:41:13 PM
Next three games are huge for me.

Going into November still in single figure points isn't going to be pretty. We are already in bottom 3 as it is despite some good play in spells of many games.

Massive missed opportunity lost today I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on September 22, 2019, 06:41:37 PM
It would be nice if we occasionally won any of them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa in Denmark on September 22, 2019, 06:42:47 PM
I am not going to panic after a defeat away to Arsenal, even if they did have a man sent off. The next three games against Burnley, Norwich and Brighton are massive. Struggle in those three and we will know it is looking likely to be a relegation battle.
Struggle in those three and there won't any likely about it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 22, 2019, 07:20:13 PM
Yes today was massive and could be a catalyst either way.
The players will take some of the blame but also know they got no help from the manager when they needed it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: taylorsworkrate on September 22, 2019, 07:22:41 PM
Yes today was massive and could be a catalyst either way.
The players will take some of the blame but also know they got no help from the manager when they needed it.

Don't want to compare it to the Leicester game in 2015, but mentally I think it has to be compared.

The week after that game we put in a fucking insipid pathetic display losing at home to WBA.

This time we need a proper response and need to win.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: four fornicholl on September 22, 2019, 07:25:27 PM
No.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 22, 2019, 07:26:25 PM
Cup match next up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ads on September 22, 2019, 07:27:07 PM
I'm not worried as my main concern was whether we are able to compete and I feel satisfied that yes, we do belong here.

I think we're going to need to work on our own naivety as its cost us points this season and again today.

But we're needing 34 points from the last 32. Staying up is the only aim, we certainly can do it, but whether we will of course is another matter.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 22, 2019, 07:45:49 PM
It would be nice if we occasionally won any of them.

Haven't we won yet?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa75 on September 22, 2019, 08:04:28 PM
It would be nice if we occasionally won any of them.

Haven't we won yet?

Yep. 1 out of 6, and 4 points.

= relegation form.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mr underhill on September 22, 2019, 08:38:18 PM
I was always concerned that we, by necessity, had too big a rebuild on our hands. Maybe that was what Purslow was referencing when he said promotion had come a year early. Already tere are grounds to question some of the recent recruitment. I know he has his supporters, and may well prove an astute buy, but imo Konsa was a luxury we could have done without, whilst another forward was a priority we did without for one reason or another. I am bemused by Targett too - i realise he's been injured but he was overlooked immediately after an impressive pre-season in favour of Taylor, who most of us never wanted to see play at left back again. No one knows what the next 32 games will hold for us, but on the evidence of the first six, not much is my guess.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on September 22, 2019, 08:44:00 PM
I was always concerned that we, by necessity, had too big a rebuild on our hands. Maybe that was what Purslow was referencing when he said promotion had come a year early. Already tere are grounds to question some of the recent recruitment. I know he has his supporters, and may well prove an astute buy, but imo Konsa was a luxury we could have done without, whilst another forward was a priority we did without for one reason or another. I am bemused by Targett too - i realise he's been injured but he was overlooked immediately after an impressive pre-season in favour of Taylor, who most of us never wanted to see play at left back again. No one knows what the next 32 games will hold for us, but on the evidence of the first six, not much is my guess.

Konsa is cover for a long hard season. We should have signed another striker as well
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on September 22, 2019, 08:49:36 PM
I am not going to panic after a defeat away to Arsenal, even if they did have a man sent off. The next three games against Burnley, Norwich and Brighton are massive. Struggle in those three and we will know it is looking likely to be a relegation battle.

with what confidence do we go into those three games?

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on September 22, 2019, 08:57:50 PM
The one thing I do find positive is unlike 15/16 we know the investment is there and we won't be hung out to dry like we we were in January 16.  A long long way to go but being patient is difficult, especially as after pretty much three seasons of winning games regularly (lower division or not) the feeling of losing every week is fucking depressing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on September 22, 2019, 08:59:26 PM
It worries me that most of our players look knackered after half time, McGinn is our only goal threat yet tires badly in the second half.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on September 22, 2019, 09:01:08 PM
I mean, for people worried about the league table, the current top 4 in Spain (as things stand) is Athletic Bilbao, Sevilla, Granada, & Real Sociedad, and much as I'd love an all-Basque/Andalusian top 4 in Spain it really isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 22, 2019, 09:33:33 PM
It is surely too early to factor in the league table too much. Obviously everyone would like a few more points on the board, but I donít think the sample size is large enough to make definitive judgement.

Same with comparing other teams results at this stage (seen a few mention Watford drawing with Arsenal last week as though it makes today worse). The league seem much more like the Championship (in an everyone can beat everyone way) than it used to. West Ham, for example, I thought were fairly average against us, yet beat Manchester United today, who themselves beat a decent Leicester side last week.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on September 22, 2019, 09:34:20 PM
I think I might start being concerned if these next three league games don't yield a decent points return, particularly with two of them at home.  Burnley are a streetwise and dogged team, Norwich and Brighton are games I expect us to be really competitive in and to pick up points.  We will see.  At some point, I expect the owners to put the feelers out.  They would be daft if they didn't, surely they would want to protect their investment?  I am not suggesting Dean Smith is ditched at this point but if we are 12 games in and still in the bottom three, I suggest things will get a bit twitchy.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 22, 2019, 09:41:05 PM
I mean, for people worried about the league table, the current top 4 in Spain (as things stand) is Athletic Bilbao, Sevilla, Granada, & Real Sociedad, and much as I'd love an all-Basque/Andalusian top 4 in Spain it really isn't going to happen.

If we were top 4 I'd probably think we weren't going to win the title, but being in the bottom three, and playing as we are, I think there's a decent chance we'll go down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on September 22, 2019, 09:51:03 PM
I mean, for people worried about the league table, the current top 4 in Spain (as things stand) is Athletic Bilbao, Sevilla, Granada, & Real Sociedad, and much as I'd love an all-Basque/Andalusian top 4 in Spain it really isn't going to happen.

If we were top 4 I'd probably think we weren't going to win the title, but being in the bottom three, and playing as we are, I think there's a decent chance we'll go down.

Don't disagree, but it is still premature to draw conclusions.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on September 22, 2019, 09:56:31 PM
After today yes I am worried. The poor results when in 10 men situations is very big issue. Losing today was total incompetence and incompetent teams do not survive,
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 09:58:08 PM
We need to win next Saturday.

At the moment table is still condensed and not yet split into many seperate divisions beyond the top 2 who are miles better than everyone else.

We beat Burnley and we move to 7 points so one off Chelsea, Man. United, Sheffield United and a few other teams who have had comfortable starts and don't look like getting relegated.

Struggle to get wins in our next three and it's not going to be a real slog then up to middle of December as that's when the hard fixtures start piling up one after the other. Man. City and then Liverpool in one week at the start of November for example. Minor miracle to even get a point out of those two games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:03:06 PM
Keep saying this, I donít want to be the plucky side who have a go but come up short. To throw away the game today, to only manage a draw v 10 man West Ham is very poor. Itís ok Dean or others saying it will be ok, fact is, we have thrown away points. We need to get clever and very quickly. 4 points from the next two games and yes things look different, but I can only comment on what has happened.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: eamonn on September 22, 2019, 10:09:56 PM
Hope this plucky loser shit is not going to be a regular feature.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:17:52 PM
Hope this plucky loser shit is not going to be a regular feature.

It wonít be if we start winning games
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:27:52 PM
There's undoubtedly a chance we'll finish bottom 3. We haven't been beaten out of sight but we've looked shambolic at points in games too often and losing 4 out of 6 tells its own story. Long way to go and as we saw last season form can switch dramatically. Hopefully there's some good times ahead this season but at the moment it's shit. Today was a real choker in particular.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: andyh on September 22, 2019, 10:31:38 PM
After today yes I am worried. The poor results when in 10 men situations is very big issue. Losing today was total incompetence and incompetent teams do not survive,
I think this is a nail on head comment.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 22, 2019, 10:34:18 PM
All season weíve been saying played well but we need to learn about the PL quickly and cut out the silly mistakes which is true. But at the moment we appear to be doing neither. How long before the Ďitís still early season, new teamí excuses start becoming the norm.

Iíd say DS has 10/12 games. If weíre still treading water then iíd expect the owners to get twitchy. They like a name and I can see them going for Mouriniho.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 22, 2019, 10:42:52 PM

Iíd say DS has 10/12 games. If weíre still treading water then iíd expect the owners to get twitchy. They like a name and I can see them going for Mouriniho.

Is there anything from them to suggest that? Surely if that was true they would have gone Henry over Dean Smith in the first place.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:44:19 PM
Mourinho, really?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 22, 2019, 10:45:14 PM
Theyíll either go internal (Terry) or tried and trusted PL experience. Henry was a name (just not a managerial one).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 22, 2019, 10:47:00 PM
Mourinho, really?

Thatís who I think theyíd go for yes.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 10:48:02 PM
Interesting, but a debate / conversation hopefully we donít have to have
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on September 22, 2019, 10:48:28 PM
I hate to use the dreaded 'F' word but we are starting to sound very fickle very quickly. We might be Aston Villa but right now we are a newly promoted club who have spent the best part of a decade struggling to survive in the Premier League, failing to survive in the Premier League and then battling to get back into the Premier League. The criticism of the manager who got us promoted at the first time of asking is particularly unfair. Seriously, did anybody think this season was going to be a cakewalk?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 22, 2019, 10:53:53 PM
I hate to use the dreaded 'F' word but we are starting to sound very fickle very quickly. We might be Aston Villa but right now we are a newly promoted club who have spent the best part of a decade struggling to survive in the Premier League, failing to survive in the Premier League and then battling to get back into the Premier League. The criticism of the manager who got us promoted at the first time of asking is particularly unfair. Seriously, did anybody think this season was going to be a cakewalk?

You're right, it won't be a cakewalk, which is why thrown away three points like today are so hard to swallow, I guess.

There's nothing wrong with criticising him. We all fuck up, he just needs to not fuck up with the same thing repeatedly, that's the key.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 22, 2019, 10:56:03 PM
I really did not expect to see Dean Smith be so passive as his team were being torn apart by 10 men either.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 22, 2019, 10:56:40 PM
Interesting, but a debate / conversation hopefully we donít have to have

Totally agree, Iíd love nothing more than DS to be a massive success and be Villa manager for the next 10 years. It feels so right. But in the meantime he needs a few results on the next 5 games else he might be looking over his shoulder.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 22, 2019, 10:57:21 PM
I think he will be given plenty of time. Itís arguable that promotion was achieved ahead of schedule given the position when Dean Smith was appointed (and also in March)

Obviously targets and plans change once promotion is achieved - the owners (and Christian Purslow) are clearly not just going to be happy thinking itís a bonus we are here letís see what happens, but I think given the state of the squad following the play off final, heíll be given a while to work with what is essentially a new team and squad of players.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 22, 2019, 10:59:45 PM
Asp from second half v spurs have not been outplayed
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 22, 2019, 11:03:08 PM
Asp from second half v spurs have not been outplayed

I was at Palace and they outplayed us. I know about the ďincidentĒ at the end, but we could easily have been 2-0 down before that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on September 22, 2019, 11:11:27 PM
Asp from second half v spurs have not been outplayed
We were totally outplayed by 10 men team. A team that played on Thursday but was still had more energy than us in the second half.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 22, 2019, 11:34:06 PM
Mourinho, really?

Thatís who I think theyíd go for yes.

Don't think he'd give us the time of the day. Would be more likely to go for a Javi Gracia if he's still out of work or even Nuno if Wolves sack him.

Obviously hope we don't change manager in near future but it may happen more quickly than people realise if we don't pick up a win or two in next three games. After that it's a tough 8 game period with only Newcastle at home looking really winnable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 22, 2019, 11:44:23 PM
It was the 'Steve Bruce' substitution that fucked us. Bringing Elmo on effectively said to the players "this team, who you've gone toe-to-toe with for 70 minutes, we're now scared of them."
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 23, 2019, 07:15:11 AM
Mourinho, really?

Thatís who I think theyíd go for yes.

Don't think he'd give us the time of the day. Would be more likely to go for a Javi Gracia if he's still out of work or even Nuno if Wolves sack him.


I'm basing that on the fact that we seem to like people who have previous connections - that's certainly something we did with our transfer business.  I'm fairly sure Mouriniho worked with Purslow at Chelsea so you'd think they'd know each other well and obviously there's a massive connection between Mouriniho and John Terry. 

Also he's 56 now, if Mouriniho wants to work in England again he probably needs to be looking at a club outside of the current top tier teams, cant see him pitching up at Man City, Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal and he's already been at Chelsea (twice) and Man Utd.  That leaves someone outside that group as a long term project that can offer him some serious financial backing to achieve it.  Which leaves us, Everton and maybe Wolves at a push.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on September 23, 2019, 07:20:09 AM
Not yet no way. Weíve probably been our worst enemy in all our games this season, but we have shown enough quality for me to say weíll turn it around. Also Iím sure as we did last season learn from this. Dean as much as the squad are new in this league and I have to believe that he and his coaching team will improve enough to finish mid table.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: qwerty on September 23, 2019, 08:00:22 AM
IanJ,

I wish I had your optimism about turning around the current situation.

The last two games have highlighted the tactical incompetence of Dean Smith.

John McGinnís post-match comments are illuminating:
Quote
But we got deeper and deeper and you can't do that. It is game management. It has cost us dearly this season.
When you force pressure on yourself you get punished. We need to capitalise when things go for us in the game.

If John McGinn can see the problem, why can't the manager? It is so glaringly obvious.

After promotion it was clear that the squad needed serious reinforcement to stand any chance of remaining in the Premiership. Unfortunately Villa seem to have followed Fulham in throwing a lot of money at Championship-standard players.

Despite this, I do think that a different manager who has some tactical nous would be capable of picking up more points with the same raw material.
Villa have chucked away vital points in the last two games thanks to Dean Smithís tactical inadequacy and naivety at Premiership level.

The situation is only going to get much worse with him in charge. He is completely out of his depth and needs to go pronto.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on September 23, 2019, 08:02:25 AM
Not worried. More exasperated.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on September 23, 2019, 08:05:43 AM
Qwerty, I don't think Guilbert, Heaton, Mings, Engels, Nakamba, and Luiz, but to name a few, are Championship quality level.

Wesley and El Ghazi on current form might be, but they may come good. I've seen El Ghazi on form, and how I wish he could perform consistently. And then there's Trezeguet. I like him and think he'll be a really important player for us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: curlytailavfc on September 23, 2019, 08:10:25 AM
alot of teams we will play wount be bothered if they go down to 10 men as it never works in our favor
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on September 23, 2019, 08:16:37 AM
qwerty has signed up and made two posts: one telling us we are doomed to relegation, and the other telling us Dean needs to go.


Welcome to the site! I'm eagerly awaiting the third post.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on September 23, 2019, 08:24:18 AM
qwerty has signed up and made two posts: one telling us we are doomed to relegation, and the other telling us Dean needs to go.


Welcome to the site! I'm eagerly awaiting the third post.

Maybe the third one will be to say the owners need to sell up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 23, 2019, 08:36:54 AM
qwerty has signed up and made two posts: one telling us we are doomed to relegation, and the other telling us Dean needs to go.


Welcome to the site! I'm eagerly awaiting the third post.

I'm waiting to see what his mate asdfgh has to say about it all.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on September 23, 2019, 08:43:31 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have spotted the cupboard dwelling, thigh rubbing jerk-off keyboard warrior.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 23, 2019, 08:56:59 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one to have spotted the cupboard dwelling, thigh rubbing jerk-off keyboard warrior.

AKA a Nose.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mr underhill on September 23, 2019, 09:08:26 AM
also known as a person entitled to an opinion?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 23, 2019, 09:09:53 AM
Yes, even though he/she is wrong.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 23, 2019, 11:05:23 AM
It's such an obvious giveaway, qwerty the keyboard. His mate azerty will be next.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on September 23, 2019, 11:18:38 AM
also known as a person entitled to an opinion?
Nobody has stopped them from giving one. I gave mine. Politely. I can't see what the problem is.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: qwerty on September 23, 2019, 12:47:03 PM
Bad English & mr underhill,

Thank you for allowing to have my say on this forum, regardless of whether anybody else agrees with me or just thinks I am talking out of my backside.

Aston Villa is as much my club as it is to all the other fans who post on H & V.
It pains me to see Villa struggling after all that effort to get out of the Championship.
The last thing we all want is for Villa to go down after just one season.

@Abbeyfealeavefc,
I am afraid that you are reading far too much into the name qwerty.
Would it be too much to ask for you to refrain from making such obnoxious comments about other posters in the future?
It does you no credit whatsoever.



Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: MalcolmP on September 23, 2019, 01:25:38 PM
It pains me to see Villa struggling after all that effort to get out of the Championship.

we are not struggling! - we have held our own for most of the matches against Spurs and Arsenal who have finished top 6 for how many years?. More than held our own against a decent West Ham team, beaten Everton and should have beaten Bournemouth. We have been denied 2 points from ludicrous VAR decisions against Palace and Arsenal. Had we got those we would be on 6 points only 2 points behind Spurs and Man Utd! NaÔve yes, struggling definitely not. It is a massive learning curve in the step up from the championship to the premier league and this takes time. I will see how we are doing at Christmas time - until then I will ignore the negative opinions of many fickle supporters on here and twitter who are exact same ones calling for Dean Smiths head in January last year and we know what happened after that!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: nevillain on September 23, 2019, 02:00:26 PM

we are not struggling! - we have held our own for most of the matches against Spurs and Arsenal who have finished top 6 for how many years?. More than held our own against a decent West Ham team, beaten Everton and should have beaten Bournemouth. We have been denied 2 points from ludicrous VAR decisions against Palace and Arsenal. Had we got those we would be on 6 points only 2 points behind Spurs and Man Utd! NaÔve yes, struggling definitely not. It is a massive learning curve in the step up from the championship to the premier league and this takes time. I will see how we are doing at Christmas time - until then I will ignore the negative opinions of many fickle supporters on here and twitter who are exact same ones calling for Dean Smiths head in January last year and we know what happened after that!

[/quote]

Nail. Head
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on September 23, 2019, 02:23:46 PM
It pains me to see Villa struggling after all that effort to get out of the Championship.

we are not struggling! - we have held our own for most of the matches against Spurs and Arsenal who have finished top 6 for how many years?. More than held our own against a decent West Ham team, beaten Everton and should have beaten Bournemouth. We have been denied 2 points from ludicrous VAR decisions against Palace and Arsenal. Had we got those we would be on 6 points only 2 points behind Spurs and Man Utd! NaÔve yes, struggling definitely not. It is a massive learning curve in the step up from the championship to the premier league and this takes time. I will see how we are doing at Christmas time - until then I will ignore the negative opinions of many fickle supporters on here and twitter who are exact same ones calling for Dean Smiths head in January last year and we know what happened after that!

Agree with this.  Think we will have a far better idea of where we are after the next three league games.   
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Gerrin on September 23, 2019, 02:38:23 PM
It pains me to see Villa struggling after all that effort to get out of the Championship.

we are not struggling! - we have held our own for most of the matches against Spurs and Arsenal who have finished top 6 for how many years?. More than held our own against a decent West Ham team, beaten Everton and should have beaten Bournemouth. We have been denied 2 points from ludicrous VAR decisions against Palace and Arsenal. Had we got those we would be on 6 points only 2 points behind Spurs and Man Utd! NaÔve yes, struggling definitely not. It is a massive learning curve in the step up from the championship to the premier league and this takes time. I will see how we are doing at Christmas time - until then I will ignore the negative opinions of many fickle supporters on here and twitter who are exact same ones calling for Dean Smiths head in January last year and we know what happened after that!



I agree with this. The only game I'm pissed off about is the Bournemouth game, we should've won that one, but gave them a 2 goal start. After watching the Newcastle home match on Saturday, they are in a much worse state than us. The team are hopeless, 25% possession at home against Brighton. The club as a whole is in a similar state to when we went down, nobody cares. At least there's optimism back at Villa. I think we'll have enough to stay up, see where we're at Christmas like you say.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Abbeyfealeavfc on September 23, 2019, 06:30:34 PM
Hahahaha qwerty
Get over yourself mate!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 23, 2019, 08:27:18 PM
Watford Southampton Brighton are 3 that don't over impress
I'll add Newcastle that's 4 teams I think we will beat in matches at home. And 4 teams that can be higher than
I'll add Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace and Norwich
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 23, 2019, 08:49:20 PM
also known as a person entitled to an opinion?

Why is it that those who moan about not being allowed to have an opinion are invariably the ones who think nobody should ever dissgree with them?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AllanW on September 23, 2019, 09:24:12 PM
Yep. This may be crossing-over with the 'Realistic Expectations' thread but I agree there are at least 3 teams who are obviously worse than us and I'd expect after the whole season to see us finish above them;

Watford
Brighton
Newcastle

I'd add that Crystal Palace and Southampton may well perform worse than us as well.

We've begun gelling a new team and that will take time. We have a capable and skilled set of staff, a terrific set of players who are more than good enough to get better and better and, most importantly, a big and growing fanbase wager for good football. The future is bright. 

No, I'm not worried, I'm excited. UTV.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on September 23, 2019, 11:43:43 PM
Yep. This may be crossing-over with the 'Realistic Expectations' thread but I agree there are at least 3 teams who are obviously worse than us and I'd expect after the whole season to see us finish above them;

Watford
Brighton
Newcastle

I'd add that Crystal Palace and Southampton may well perform worse than us as well.

We've begun gelling a new team and that will take time. We have a capable and skilled set of staff, a terrific set of players who are more than good enough to get better and better and, most importantly, a big and growing fanbase wager for good football. The future is bright. 

No, I'm not worried, I'm excited. UTV.

What also provides some reassurance is the thought that if things do begin to slide badly enough for the button to be pushed on DS, the ambition and the money is seemingly there for a more than decent replacement to be attracted to the club and reinforcements brought in during the January transfer window.

Obviously hope the former of those is not required.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: boozey182 on September 24, 2019, 10:54:49 AM
On Sunday, after the match, I thought we were doomed. I expected to get battered by them, losing 3 or 4 nil, but somehow losing like that was much, much worse. Yesterday, I was angry, mainly with the officiating - it felt a bit like the world was against us.

Today though, I feel much more positive. I've watched our goals back and they are both excellent; the first a long, patient build up, stringing together passes from back to front, right to left - they didn't get near us. And the second was all about Jack - driving 50 yards, with the defence to scared to make a tackle, and our star striker being clinical. It's the goal we've been waiting for all season.

So on Sunday, I was very much of the opinion that if we couldn't get something from that match, how on earth are we going to get enough points to stay up? Not a wholly unreasonable position, but one I've shrugged off. Now I'm thinking that things are just starting to click. That we're seeing glimpses of what we expected to see this team doing: passing through teams, running at defences, taking the game to teams no matter who they are. We outplayed Arsenal for a long time on Sunday, now we have to build on that.

The weaknesses in our team are definitely concerning, but the biggest problem at for us at the moment is mental - the sort of thing you learn with experience and we are getting taught lessons by the bucket load at the moment. It may well stand us in good stead later on in the season.

Personally, I think now is the time to really get behind Dean and the team. A lot of us said that we've got to give Dean time, and even if we went down, we'd trust him to bring us back up and build something lasting. (Presumably, having been relegated without losing a match and playing fantastically every week..!) Well this is the moment we need to all step up - three points on Saturday would be massive, and we need to create an atmosphere like the Everton match.

This time last year we were losing to Millwall, Wednesday and QPR, and look how we turned it around. We're just getting started, there is no need to worry.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 24, 2019, 11:20:16 AM
I had to drive down for meetings in Brisbane today. I went back through a few Villa View podcasts from February.

Itís amazing how far weíve come from where we were then. Iím not suggesting all is rosy but it bloody well cheered me up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Billy Walker on September 24, 2019, 11:20:56 AM
I'd say at this stage there's a good ten clubs who are all capable of finishing in the bottom three.  The difference between staying up and going down will be overall squad ability and depth, allied to team spirit and fan support.  If Villa fans, home and away, can stick together throughout the inevitable ups and downs of this particular campaign, and we use our squad and January transfer window wisely, we can survive and build/kick on again next season.  Villa Park, especially, will play a crucial part this season, we have to keep the "Everton match atmosphere" up win, lose or draw. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Billy Walker on September 24, 2019, 11:26:03 AM
I had to drive down for meetings in Brisbane today. I went back through a few Villa View podcasts from February.

Itís amazing how far weíve come from where we were then. Iím not suggesting all is rosy but it bloody well cheered me up.

Exactly, this time last year we were losing 1-2 at home to Sheffield Wednesday.  If someone had told me then that we would be back in the top flight a year later, bitterly frustrated due to losing at the Emirates, I wouldn't have believed it.  We have travelled a huge distance in a very short time and a lot of the reason for that, in my opinion, is the bond that was rekindled between the Club and the fanbase.  If we stick together we can push on.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: FatSam on September 24, 2019, 11:26:08 AM
I didn't watch the Arsenal game live, but watched a full replay last night, after having watched MOTD on Saturday night, and read peopleís reactions on here. 

In my opinion we were the better team in the first half, and despite conceding a goal, looked fairly comfortable until around the 70 minute mark Ė just before Arsenal made their double substitution. The double substitution was a really positive and well-timed intervention to support the pressure Arsenal had started to put on us immediately before this. From that point on we lost control of the game, only coming back into it after Arsenal had taken the lead Ė although they saw the game out much more competently than we had been doing previously.

I think Terry Gibson was the co-commentator, and whilst it was fairly obvious stuff, I thought he summarised events very well. He was saying early in the second half that we were the better team, but wasteful, and needed to make the extra man count as Arsenal would have a spell at some point in the game despite being a man down. It felt like we were taking things for granted and lacked urgency in that period between the sending-off and the double substitution Ė we seemed happy to trundle along with a one goal lead.

We obviously need to learn how to make an extra man count. I think this is partly tactical, and comes from the shape and substitutions made by DS, and partly down to the urgency and decisiveness shown by the players. I think both were suspect on Saturday, and we let a game that we should have been bossing escape from us. Arsenal are apparently the only team I n the EPL who have won more matches than they have lost when they have a player sent off. I can understand why this is the case, as the best form of defence is attack, and they generally take the game to the opposition.

The really important thing is to learn from it. We needed to be the team taking the initiative and asking the questions in the second half, and the substitutions needed to be in pursuit of that.

More generally, the two most reliable weapons we currently have in my opinion are Jack carrying the ball towards the opposition penalty box, and Conor taking dead balls. Jack needs to be in the right position to be making those runs with the ball, as they frequently result in goals. I donít understand why it only happens once or twice a game Ė we should be trying to orchestrate this at every opportunity.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa75 on September 24, 2019, 11:35:38 AM
We don't seem to be playing as a coherent unit. We look like a group of individuals, with individual ideas, who occasionally link for the odd bit of good play, seemingly by accident rather than design.

Obviously this is mostly down to playing in a new division with a lot of new players. Dean's job is to get us playing as that coherent unit, and quickly, otherwise we will go down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on September 28, 2019, 04:57:10 PM
This is by no means a certain-doom prediction, but we've taken 2 points from Bournemouth, West Ham and Burnley at home, and 0 points away. I think we're a good side, but at the moment I don't think we're better than 3 other sides in this division.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: curiousorange on September 28, 2019, 05:26:58 PM
I honestly can't remember how we stopped up during those Lambert seasons; all I know is that somehow we did. That's what I'm hoping for this time around, because quite honestly I don't have the stomach for a promotion battle again. Just work it out, Smith, ffs.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: GarTomas on September 28, 2019, 05:29:47 PM
Hopefully weíve not yet played the teams who are worse than us to finish above.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 28, 2019, 05:31:55 PM
Yes because weíre continuing to make the same sort of mistakes.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: curiousorange on September 28, 2019, 05:38:52 PM
I think back to the relegation season and a lot of the games blur into one mass of utter shit. But I remember winning the opener at Bournemouth and thinking we'd be okay, and eventually getting that home win against Palace in January or whenever it was, and knowing it was a blip. Right now I'm considering the Everton match and trying to work out whether it's a Bournemouth moment.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: myf on September 28, 2019, 06:49:40 PM
This is by no means a certain-doom prediction, but we've taken 2 points from Bournemouth, West Ham and Burnley at home, and 0 points away. I think we're a good side, but at the moment I don't think we're better than 3 other sides in this division.

at the moment we're the third worst team in the prem
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2019, 06:53:31 PM
I honestly can't remember how we stopped up during those Lambert seasons; all I know is that somehow we did. That's what I'm hoping for this time around, because quite honestly I don't have the stomach for a promotion battle again. Just work it out, Smith, ffs.

Lambert's first season actually reminds me very much of this one.

At the time it was seen as promising summer window but we still signed largely a number of unknowns who lacked prem experience. We were in games just as we are now but were struggling to score and get wins on the board.

Were in bottom 5 pretty much first half of the season and then that nightmare December run happened and we look dead and buried after that.

There's always a way to stay up. January window is looking huge. We can't gamble on signing more project players, we have enough of those at the club.

Need 2 experienced and proven final third players on loan or here full time. Plenty on fringes of top sides will want to go and play week in week out with Euro 2020 so don't buy any argument we couldn't sign them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 28, 2019, 06:57:04 PM
This is by no means a certain-doom prediction, but we've taken 2 points from Bournemouth, West Ham and Burnley at home, and 0 points away. I think we're a good side, but at the moment I don't think we're better than 3 other sides in this division.

Completely agree that we should be targeting more points from those games, and I would obviously be more concerned with our results and performances, but I can imagine that fans of a few other teams around us probably thinking something similar (with some similar fixtures):

Brighton - 2 points from West Ham, Burnley and Southampton at home

Newcastle - Draws against Watford and Brighton at home

Watford - Zero points from West Ham and Brighton at home
 
Norwich - Zero points or goals against West Ham, Burnley and Palace away


Even heard two Everton fans on a phone in (not the best place to gauge an opinion granted) last week saying they couldnít think of three teams that had been worse than them  this season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2019, 06:57:37 PM
I think back to the relegation season and a lot of the games blur into one mass of utter shit. But I remember winning the opener at Bournemouth and thinking we'd be okay, and eventually getting that home win against Palace in January or whenever it was, and knowing it was a blip. Right now I'm considering the Everton match and trying to work out whether it's a Bournemouth moment.

Start of that season we had WBA, Swansea, Stoke, Sunderland, Watford and West Ham as home games up to January. We managed 2 points from that.

Blunt truth is to stop up you need to average around 25-30 points from home games over a season. If you can't beat enough bottom half teams than that dosen't half put some pressure to get a shock win or two.

Given our dismal record v likes of liverpool, Arsenal and of course Man. United on our turf it's not an advisable tactic for us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: danno on September 28, 2019, 07:02:39 PM
Agree it is a bit like Lambert's first season, funnily enough though I don't think Yacouba Sylla would improve our midfield as much as he did those first few months he was here.

Genuinely can't remember who we had playing next to Vlaar. Was it  Clark ? 

Actually think only the 2012 Agbonlahor and Benteke would get into today's team.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2019, 07:05:37 PM
Agree it is a bit like Lambert's first season, funnily enough though I don't think Yacouba Sylla would improve our midfield as much as he did those first few months he was here.

Genuinely can't remember who we had playing next to Vlaar. Was it  Clark ? 

Actually think only the 2012 Agbonlahor and Benteke would get into today's team.

Yes Clark was regular that year at CB. Full back were Lowton and mainly Bennett with cameos from Lichaj/Enda Stevens/Baker.

Midfield was pretty poor for much of the season until the run in when Delph-Westwood-Sylla did a good job covering ground for the front three.

I think we had much better options than we did in defence and midfield back then. Can't say the same about final third though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: danno on September 28, 2019, 07:12:09 PM
Agree it is a bit like Lambert's first season, funnily enough though I don't think Yacouba Sylla would improve our midfield as much as he did those first few months he was here.

Genuinely can't remember who we had playing next to Vlaar. Was it  Clark ? 

Actually think only the 2012 Agbonlahor and Benteke would get into today's team.

Yes Clark was regular that year at CB. Full back were Lowton and mainly Bennett with cameos from Lichaj/Enda Stevens/Baker.

Midfield was pretty poor for much of the season until the run in when Delph-Westwood-Sylla did a good job covering ground for the front three.

I think we had much better options than we did in defence and midfield back then. Can't say the same about final third though.

Yeah, although I'm perhaps being overly harsh on Vlaar and Delph.

I Definitely wouldn't fire up the delorean for the fullbacks or GK though!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 28, 2019, 07:14:00 PM

Blunt truth is to stop up you need to average around 25-30 points from home games over a season. If you can't beat enough bottom half teams than that dosen't half put some pressure to get a shock win or two.

Given our dismal record v likes of liverpool, Arsenal and of course Man. United on our turf it's not an advisable tactic for us.

Admittedly Iím trying to look at things in a positive light, but we are averaging what, a shade under 24 points over the season currently, so not far off that target.

Yes, we have the toughest fixtures to come, but we have also played two teams many expected to finish in the top eight this season, so have a decent amount of Ďbottom halfí teams to play at home still.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 28, 2019, 07:15:58 PM
Actually just checked back. In Lambert seasons and McLeish year we only averaged about 20 points over the season at VP so I probably set back a little too high and we're on course to beat that.

Need to start picking up some points on the road starting in Norfolk.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 28, 2019, 07:41:01 PM
Yeah, I wouldnít be too concerned with our home form just yet. Disappointed that we havenít taken a couple of good opportunities to register more points, but not particularly worried.

Would definitely be nice for the squad to get a result away from home, for their confidence and belief to do so if nothing else. However, the three teams we have played away have only lost a single home game between them so far, so definitely easiest games to come there.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 28, 2019, 10:04:17 PM
I don't see another 3pts coming till 19th October at home to Brighton.
Doesn't mean we won't pick up a point between now and then Arsenal a, Burnley h, Norwich (a) and we need too as after the Brighton home match have Man City a and the Liverpool home.

It may get worse before it gets better and a case for the recruited players needing to gel ,and get use to playing alongside each other . Aside from this the exact playing method and style Deano being implemented means patience is required I guess.
The great thing is had the win v Everton and showed glimpses and periods of decent play in all the matches. I think things will improve however it'll take a bit of time. I have reservations about the attacking goal threat and quality  but I don't have any reservations about Dean Smith what so ever .  So that's where my faith is in respect to doing ok , being competitive and remaining in premier league come season end.

Next 6 fixtures then

As I think Brighton will be the win . Next match at home is where we pick up some 3 pts.
Draw next week. Probably 4-4
Then the win v Brighton

But I fear how we cope then against Man City press , passing and attacking intent.
And how we cope with Liverpool.
Their roatations for Champs league may give us some hope.

Then. Fixtures are
Wolves (a) after their Europa league so may catch them out
Newcastle ( h)
Man utd (a)

We may be going with the 7 wins 15 draws route to get to 36 points
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on September 28, 2019, 10:10:17 PM
Tonight we are 16 points behind Liverpool. I am beginning to think we will struggle to catch them😏
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 28, 2019, 10:25:58 PM
Tonight we are 16 points behind Liverpool. I am beginning to think we will struggle to catch them😏

Leave the room. We need believers.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 28, 2019, 10:38:43 PM
The positive thing is that we're not being royally fucked over every week. We're in games but stupid errors cost us.

We can do this. And I believe we will.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on September 28, 2019, 10:46:04 PM
The positive thing is that we're not being royally fucked over every week. We're in games but stupid errors cost us.

We can do this. And I believe we will.

Me too.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on September 29, 2019, 12:13:44 AM
I honestly can't remember how we stopped up during those Lambert seasons; all I know is that somehow we did. That's what I'm hoping for this time around, because quite honestly I don't have the stomach for a promotion battle again. Just work it out, Smith, ffs.

Was thinking about that during the game today.  We were dire under Lambert, but still managed to stay up.  I think we are a better side than then, but we did have Benteke back then, who was a real threat and we haven't got anything close to him at the moment. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 29, 2019, 12:14:54 AM
I have a horrible feeling we are shaping up for one of those 'plucky losers, came and tried to play the game the right way, but went straight back down' relegations.

It's much better than our last relegation, which was a comedy one, mind.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 12:16:57 AM
I honestly can't remember how we stopped up during those Lambert seasons; all I know is that somehow we did. That's what I'm hoping for this time around, because quite honestly I don't have the stomach for a promotion battle again. Just work it out, Smith, ffs.

Was thinking about that during the game today.  We were dire under Lambert, but still managed to stay up.  I think we are a better side than then, but we did have Benteke back then, who was a real threat and we haven't got anything close to him at the moment. 

Benteke of 2013/14 in this team would see us upper mid table now for sure.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 12:19:16 AM
I honestly can't remember how we stopped up during those Lambert seasons; all I know is that somehow we did. That's what I'm hoping for this time around, because quite honestly I don't have the stomach for a promotion battle again. Just work it out, Smith, ffs.

Was thinking about that during the game today.  We were dire under Lambert, but still managed to stay up.  I think we are a better side than then, but we did have Benteke back then, who was a real threat and we haven't got anything close to him at the moment. 

Benteke of 2013/14 in this team would see us upper mid table now for sure.
agree
Makes a hell of a difference having a player as good as he was.
I think we are in trouble and Smith is worrying me because he seems a bit stuck.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 12:34:32 AM
Itís because we have no striker options. Kodja being injured leaves only Davis. If Smith sticks with 4-3-3 he has to play Wesley who lacks consistency along with AEG and Trez.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 12:46:57 AM
Itís because we have no striker options. Kodja being injured leaves only Davis. If Smith sticks with 4-3-3 he has to play Wesley who lacks consistency along with AEG and Trez.
Davis showed more in 10 minutes than Wesley in nearly 90.
Davis has to be given a chance.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on September 29, 2019, 12:56:05 AM
The positive thing is that we're not being royally fucked over every week. We're in games but stupid errors cost us.

We can do this. And I believe we will.

Me too.

We need to wise up . And every chance.
8 points now dropped from losing positions . Thats the most by any team  in the league.
Even taking half those Villa would have made a difference to current situation.

Goals conceded 11.
Goals conceded second half 9
Goals conceded last 20 minutes 7
Goals conceded last 10 minutes 5 (most by any team in last 10 minutes)


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JJ-AV on September 29, 2019, 07:27:32 AM
Not that worried yet. We've shown we're capable (despite obvious quality issues in key areas), but we do need to improve.

The next 6 league games have 4 games we should be looking to get points from. 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses would see us on 1 point per game of 13 from 13.

It's not ideal but if we can stay around that ratio until January hopefully we can get some short term signings to keep us up. We should be looking at Premier League proven players now (ahem Batshuayi and Damarai Gray), who can come in and make an impact.

My main concern is that the bottom 3 are the teams with the worst forwards. Watford have Welbeck and Deeney to come in, and above us Norwich have Pukki and Southampton have Ings who look capable to score enough to keep them up.

Trezeguet improved from the bench so that's a positive. Anwar looked good. Wesley needs to improve but there are positives. Just need to stay with it, and should we go down we should stick with Smith (unless something changes wildly.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 08:12:47 AM
Iím not worried about any aspect of the team apart from our striker situation (which is obviously a concern).

Whatís the situation with free agents and is there anyone still out there we can look to get an hour out of at least?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 29, 2019, 08:48:23 AM
We're one point off 17th, (which effectively should be our target).
We're 3 points off 11th (and being above Man Utd).
One draw behind Norwich, one win behind Sheffield United.
If we'd not lost all those points from winning positions we'd have another 8 and be third.

Basically this is absolutely not the time to panic. We're giving away silly goals but we can, and will, get better.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: purpletrousers on September 29, 2019, 08:55:49 AM
Iím not worried about any aspect of the tram apart from our striker situation (which is obviously a concern).

Whatís the situation with free agents and is there anyone still out there we can look to get an hour out of at least?

I occasionally wonder if typos are deliberate to take threads off track into punathons.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: aldridgeboy on September 29, 2019, 09:27:15 AM
Iím worried, but not panicking. I see much good in the team. We are a million miles away from where we were last two seasons on this league.

But, the  bottom line is weíre in the bottom three with nearly a quarter of the season gone. We havenít had, on paper, a hard start. We need to win home games against the likes of Bournemouth and Burnley  and a 10 man West Ham  really). Mistakes get punished instantly in this league, and itís costing  us dearly.

I just hope we are learning and improving enough to be ok. Itís hopefully looking like Watford will be the team that will struggle all season, leaving us needing to be better than two other teams. Fingers crossed we will be.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clampy on September 29, 2019, 09:33:21 AM
I'm not too worried either. We were never going to come out of the blocks firing and we've had our fair share of bad luck but we've also not helped ourselves either. I think we'll be fine.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa75 on September 29, 2019, 10:34:47 AM
I always worry when I see a Villa side that collectively shits itself when under the slightest bit of pressure.

We already look like a team that doesn't know how to see a game out and get a win. The fans already expect us to lose a lead, and the players look like they're in the same frame of mind.

Can Smith change that around?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: FatSam on September 29, 2019, 10:48:49 AM
Iím not too worried. I think that if we had the striker options that we all (including DS) knew we needed in the summer, then we would be comfortably mid-table now. It is important not to panic, as to throw everything out of the window when itís very close to clicking, would be idiotic. However, it is critical that we are still in touch by January, so that the season is not a write-off, and it is worth signing a striker in the window. Our last season in this division started similarly to this one, but we then hardly picked-up any more points until January I think. It feels like from now until January is what will define our season - it could go either way, but I think staying positive, and doing what we currently are (in broad terms) is the best course of action. That doesnít mean not trying Davis or Kodjia instead of Wesley or similar tweaks, and closing down games better.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AllanW on September 29, 2019, 10:53:34 AM
Is it safe to come back on the site yet? Have all the titty-babbies finished their crying? Have all the infants finished blowing their snot-bubbles? Have all the Mystic Megs finished telling us how the rest of the season will go? From their font of wise and truthful knowledge and their complete stock of inside information?

Good.

The Burnley forum wasnít wrong when it said we have Ďtemperamentalí supporters they just meant infantile and they were referring to times like those weíve had immediately after the last 2 games. If this were a site for schoolkids youíd feel justified in saying ĎStop being so childish, youíre fourteen now; act like ití.

ĎSmith outí, ĎWeíll be relegatedí, ĎWe are in troubleí, ĎQuestions need to be asked of Grealishí, ĎWesley is utter shiteí, ĎTaylor is crapí, Ďgetting embarrassing nowí, Ď I canít see us survivingí, Ďour striker is a waste of a shirtí, Ďhuge couple of games before the tin hats and blindfolds come outí, ĎDeano doesnít look up to PL standardí, Ďitís just not good enoughí, Ďthe honeymoon is overí, ĎAs it stands weíre fuckedí, ĎI can see us going down, easilyí, Ďweíre clearly out of ideasí, Ďweíre going downí, Ď and thatís just on the post-match thread. With friends like these who needs opponents?

Itís still September; we have a great manager and coaching staff; we have a great playing staff; itís still September.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sdwbvf on September 29, 2019, 11:00:20 AM
Quite right. Lots of positives, just need to get into the swing. Oh and hope no opposition players get sent off!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 29, 2019, 12:01:54 PM
The positive thing is that we're not being royally fucked over every week. We're in games but stupid errors cost us.

We can do this. And I believe we will.

On a negative note in 15/16 the first time we lost a game by more than one goal margin was middle of that October!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ez on September 29, 2019, 12:03:46 PM
Itís because we have no striker options. Kodja being injured leaves only Davis. If Smith sticks with 4-3-3 he has to play Wesley who lacks consistency along with AEG and Trez.

The striker situation isn't great but we are scoring enough goals to win games. It's the conceding of goals that is a more urgent problem.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 29, 2019, 12:08:40 PM
Is it safe to come back on the site yet? Have the self proclaimed stoics acting the hard man gone yet?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 29, 2019, 12:10:58 PM
Is it safe to come back on the site yet? Have all the titty-babbies finished their crying? Have all the infants finished blowing their snot-bubbles? Have all the Mystic Megs finished telling us how the rest of the season will go? From their font of wise and truthful knowledge and their complete stock of inside information?

Stop being so childish, youíre fourteen now; act like it.

 ;)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Dazvillain on September 29, 2019, 12:15:12 PM
Posted this in post Burnley thread but probably better off here...

Marvellous is turning world class and is our best performer by far. Watching live yesterday, his no nonsense tackling, constant distribution, going forward decision making and loads of taps and flicks to dispossess opposition was top drawer. Luiz started season well and I liked him but something dramatic needs to happen to get his place back unless Luiz plays odd game as a sitter with marvellous further forward giving jack or mcginn an occasional rest .
Good to see Connor back and Targett will be reliable if they can get his hamstrings sorted. Iím glad Deano had balls to tweak system and personal.
He needs to have balls to put Hause LB whilst Targett out and drop Engels for a bit as heís made poor decisions last few weeks and cost penalties/goals to give Konsa a chance to play with mings .

Until we get another quality striker option to start as choice from Wesley and another decent option off bench we will be in the bottom 5 until January unfortunately .
If we make those January acquisitions and pull a run out of the bag half as good as last year between feb - April hopefully weíll survive
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ktvillan on September 29, 2019, 12:16:56 PM
I'm concerned that we've conceded five very preventable goals in the last two games due to defensive lapses.  That was our strong point up to then.  I'm concerned that Wesley doesn't seem to be cutting the mustard but Smith seems wary of giving Davis a run.  Surely it's worth a try?  I'm concerned Smith is persisting with Taylor who is (usually) just about ok defensively but offers nothing going forward.  I'm concerned that Trezeguet shows some good touches but lacked composure when wasting two or three clear chances which could have given us two goal cushions.  I'm also concerned that refs and VAR officials have given some bloody awful decisions against us, a trend that needs to change if we are to have any chance.   I'm concerned that we can't seem to last more than 70 minutes without looking knackered.  I'm concerned that we seem to fall apart when faced with only 10 men.  I'm concerned that Smith seems dumbfounded when the opposition make formation and tactical changes, and slow to react when our players are obviously knackered.  I'm concerned that there aren't any obvious relegation fodder teams in the PL this year - even Watford looked they could play a bit against Arsenal.

Apart from that everything is fine and dandy, and it is only September....
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on September 29, 2019, 12:29:20 PM
'Titty babies', good grief. We've had a concerning start to the league season and look to have done problems. As I said, I think we're a good side, but it's a tough league and good sides can and will go down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chinchilla Bathhouse on September 29, 2019, 12:35:17 PM
Is it safe to come back on the site yet? Have all the titty-babbies finished their crying? Have all the infants finished blowing their snot-bubbles? Have all the Mystic Megs finished telling us how the rest of the season will go? From their font of wise and truthful knowledge and their complete stock of inside information?

Good.

The Burnley forum wasnít wrong when it said we have Ďtemperamentalí supporters they just meant infantile and they were referring to times like those weíve had immediately after the last 2 games. If this were a site for schoolkids youíd feel justified in saying ĎStop being so childish, youíre fourteen now; act like ití.


Says the man who wants to start a petition against a referee because 'it's not fair.'
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 03:18:52 PM
I'm concerned that we've conceded five very preventable goals in the last two games due to defensive lapses.  That was our strong point up to then.  I'm concerned that Wesley doesn't seem to be cutting the mustard but Smith seems wary of giving Davis a run.  Surely it's worth a try?  I'm concerned Smith is persisting with Taylor who is (usually) just about ok defensively but offers nothing going forward.  I'm concerned that Trezeguet shows some good touches but lacked composure when wasting two or three clear chances which could have given us two goal cushions.  I'm also concerned that refs and VAR officials have given some bloody  awful decisions against us, a trend that needs to change if we are to have any chance.   I'm concerned that we can't seem to last more than 70 minutes without looking knackered.  I'm concerned that we seem to fall apart when faced with only 10 men.  I'm concerned that Smith seems dumbfounded when the opposition make formation and tactical changes, and slow to react when our players are obviously knackered.  I'm concerned that there aren't any obvious relegation fodder teams in the PL this year - even Watford looked they could play a bit against Arsenal.

Apart from that everything is fine and dandy, and it is only September....
You Titty Baby. ;)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2019, 03:30:01 PM
We're one point off 17th, (which effectively should be our target).
We're 3 points off 11th (and being above Man Utd).
One draw behind Norwich, one win behind Sheffield United.
If we'd not lost all those points from winning positions we'd have another 8 and be third.

Basically this is absolutely not the time to panic. We're giving away silly goals but we can, and will, get better.


So what you're saying is that if we had more points, we'd have more points, and be higher up the table.  Can't really argue with that I suppose.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 29, 2019, 03:39:37 PM
I'm sorry but saying "we have a great playing staff" is horseshit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2019, 03:42:20 PM
Other than the defence, the rest of the team isn't really much of an improvement on last year, and in effectively swapping Tammy for Wesley, we've massively weakened the front three.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 29, 2019, 03:56:30 PM
Would you not say that Nkamaba looks like he will be a big improvement on playing Hourihane as a number six, Risso? Or that Trezeguet is a step up from Adomah/Green?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: walsall villain on September 29, 2019, 04:02:17 PM
Would you not say that Nkamaba looks like he will be a big improvement on playing Hourihane as a number six, Risso? Or that Trezeguet is a step up from Adomah/Green?
I would yes. And as for replacing a much loved striker that wasnít ours, it was always going to be difficult as a newly promoted club.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 29, 2019, 04:07:45 PM
The only position our best 11 this season isn't either stronger or at least on a par with the best 11 of last season is the striker imo.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on September 29, 2019, 04:10:10 PM
The only position our best 11 this season isn't either stronger or at least on a par with the best 11 of last season is the striker imo.

agreed. If we just had the same, so if Tammy was still with us we'd be in a much better position. For the grief some gave Tammy last year (I really didn't get why) his movement and instinct are off the chart compared to Wesley. Such a shame really that Chelsea had the transfer ban.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 29, 2019, 04:11:57 PM
The only position our best 11 this season isn't either stronger or at least on a par with the best 11 of last season is the striker imo.

Agreed. Would have loved to keep Abraham.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 29, 2019, 04:25:55 PM
If we had Tammy this season I agree we'd most likely be in a better position, if we had the team from last season we'd be nailed on for the drop imo.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ads on September 29, 2019, 04:47:22 PM
Yes, I think my worries about Abraham were definitely wrong. But whether I thought he was up to it or not, there was never any chance of him coming here again.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on September 29, 2019, 04:59:18 PM
Yeah, he was never coming this season sadly. While he always spoke warmly of us while he was here, I can understand him having an emotional attachment to Chelsea and wanting to try and make it there given he has been there since he was seven or eight.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 29, 2019, 05:01:16 PM
Michy Batshuyai is very similar to Tammy. Won't offer huge amount in build up play but get crosses into six yard box and he'll get on the end of them.

Would be looking for someone like him in January, reasonably proven and will want to play with Euro 2020 coming up. Palace got him on six month loan last January.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: dave.woodhall on September 29, 2019, 05:49:00 PM
The only position our best 11 this season isn't either stronger or at least on a par with the best 11 of last season is the striker imo.

agreed. If we just had the same, so if Tammy was still with us we'd be in a much better position. For the grief some gave Tammy last year (I really didn't get why) his movement and instinct are off the chart compared to Wesley. Such a shame really that Chelsea had the transfer ban.

ten years of worrying about FFP and it ends up affecting us because another club broke the rules.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on September 29, 2019, 05:56:04 PM
I'm not worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on September 29, 2019, 07:14:20 PM
Would you not say that Nkamaba looks like he will be a big improvement on playing Hourihane as a number six, Risso? Or that Trezeguet is a step up from Adomah/Green?

Was impressed with Nkamaba again yesterday and can only really remember him giving the ball away once.  Liked McGinn in that more advanced role, but thought Hourihane was pretty anonymous and the game passed him by.  If Douglas can get up to speed then him and Nkamaba with McGinn in front of them could be  a pretty decent midfield trio.

Thought Trezeguet offered more than El Ghazi in the time he was on, even though the latter did get a goal.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 29, 2019, 07:42:35 PM
We're one point off 17th, (which effectively should be our target).
We're 3 points off 11th (and being above Man Utd).
One draw behind Norwich, one win behind Sheffield United.
If we'd not lost all those points from winning positions we'd have another 8 and be third.

Basically this is absolutely not the time to panic. We're giving away silly goals but we can, and will, get better.


So what you're saying is that if we had more points, we'd have more points, and be higher up the table.  Can't really argue with that I suppose.

Yeah, that's right Risso. For once you can't find something to argue about. Do you want to complain about it anyway?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 29, 2019, 07:53:49 PM
Youíre such a pant wetter Drummond.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 29, 2019, 08:06:09 PM
Youíre such a pant wetter Drummond.

They're sipping wet Risso. I think you're just mistaking it for excitement though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on September 29, 2019, 08:16:45 PM
You see, Risso, I'm not the one who's worried. I'm not the one who thinks the end is nigh, who thinks everyone is shit, a waste of money and out of their depth. I think we'll be fine. I think our manager is great, will do a fine job for us and will be talked about for years.

We're not having the best run, but we're not being fucked over either. We haven't got a divine right to walk the league or to beat anyone. Based on the league positions last year, we started this as the lowest ranked.

We spent a lot of money replacing half the squad or making loans permanent. Given all the changes I think we need time to gel but already there are some great signs.

Of course I'd rather we won every game, of course I'm disappointed when we don't, but let's not cry about it eh?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on September 29, 2019, 08:26:17 PM
Iím with you on this one Drummond, I actually like watching us play, although I do get frustrated. We could do with a bit of luck, that would be nice. However Iím still very confident this team will start getting the results soon.

My brother,  has already, after their might win against Watford started the ďMind the GapĒ now they are above us. Thatís the first time they have even taken the lead in a match this season!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on September 29, 2019, 08:31:40 PM
I find it weird when people only seem to see things in a binary way. We are neither absolutely dreadful or brilliant. Dean is not a great manager, he may get there one day he may not, but heís also not hopeless. Villa arenít doing great at the minute, but it doesnít mean we need to sack the manager and equally it doesnít mean we give him a lifetime contract and canít question him.

We need to be better and hopefully Dean knows how to sort it, if he doesnít he wonít last.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: The Edge on September 29, 2019, 08:39:42 PM
I find it weird when people only seem to see things in a binary way. We are neither absolutely dreadful or brilliant. Dean is not a great manager, he may get there one day he may not, but heís also not hopeless. Villa arenít doing great at the minute, but it doesnít mean we need to sack the manager and equally it doesnít mean we give him a lifetime contract and canít question him.

We need to be better and hopefully Dean knows how to sort it, if he doesnít he wonít last.
That's very deep. Too deep for me anyroad
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on September 29, 2019, 08:52:48 PM
I think a fair few people got excited after the euphoric end to last season. That and maybe seeing premier league not being great last few seasons led to a few thinking we'd actually do a Wolves and be comfortable in top half.

Reality for me and I said it in the pre season prediction thread was 14th place on 42 points. I don't think I'll be that far out either way.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on September 29, 2019, 09:05:13 PM
16th.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 09:40:23 PM
Watching Newcastle and Watford certainly helps you be less worried. Weíre miles better than them and certainly at least 1 other team in this division.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on September 29, 2019, 09:52:11 PM
Brighton and Norwich are massive games. Burnley is one we should have won, but I thought they were actually a trickier opponent for us than better teams, because of the physicality and shithousery, which we donít cope well with.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on September 29, 2019, 09:57:26 PM
Watching Newcastle and Watford certainly helps you be less worried. Weíre miles better than them and certainly at least 1 other team in this division.
I really think we need to stop thinking we are miles better than any one in this league.
We quite obviously are not.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on September 29, 2019, 10:05:52 PM
Disagree, I think our league position is a slightly false reflection of how weíve played 1 extra point (Iím looking at you Kevin Friend) makes a difference such is the congested league.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ktvillan on September 29, 2019, 10:51:30 PM
I'm concerned that we've conceded five very preventable goals in the last two games due to defensive lapses.  That was our strong point up to then.  I'm concerned that Wesley doesn't seem to be cutting the mustard but Smith seems wary of giving Davis a run.  Surely it's worth a try?  I'm concerned Smith is persisting with Taylor who is (usually) just about ok defensively but offers nothing going forward.  I'm concerned that Trezeguet shows some good touches but lacked composure when wasting two or three clear chances which could have given us two goal cushions.  I'm also concerned that refs and VAR officials have given some bloody  awful decisions against us, a trend that needs to change if we are to have any chance.   I'm concerned that we can't seem to last more than 70 minutes without looking knackered.  I'm concerned that we seem to fall apart when faced with only 10 men.  I'm concerned that Smith seems dumbfounded when the opposition make formation and tactical changes, and slow to react when our players are obviously knackered.  I'm concerned that there aren't any obvious relegation fodder teams in the PL this year - even Watford looked they could play a bit against Arsenal.

Apart from that everything is fine and dandy, and it is only September....
You Titty Baby. ;)

Fuck yeah always up for a bit of titty.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ktvillan on September 29, 2019, 10:55:00 PM
I do think though that we were absolutely robbed of a point by Friend and robbed of a chance of a point by Jon Moss not giving a clear pen against Arsenal.  With those two extra points we'd be mid table and things would look a whole lot different.  Neither of those were the players or Smith's fault.   
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on September 30, 2019, 10:52:20 AM
You see, Risso, I'm not the one who's worried. I'm not the one who thinks the end is nigh, who thinks everyone is shit, a waste of money and out of their depth. I think we'll be fine. I think our manager is great, will do a fine job for us and will be talked about for years.

We're not having the best run, but we're not being fucked over either. We haven't got a divine right to walk the league or to beat anyone. Based on the league positions last year, we started this as the lowest ranked.

We spent a lot of money replacing half the squad or making loans permanent. Given all the changes I think we need time to gel but already there are some great signs.

Of course I'd rather we won every game, of course I'm disappointed when we don't, but let's not cry about it eh?

Nobody thinks everything is shit, including me, but the start has been extremely disappointing and lots of people are pointing out the faults.  This still feels hugely different from the last time when we went down, but if the end result is the same, it'll still be a massive and costly failure.  I don't think we will though, as if we're struggling into January then the owners will surely put their hands in their pockets again.  The front three situation is very bad though, with nobody of Premier League quality at all (yet).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on September 30, 2019, 01:43:57 PM
This is a general point, not aimed at any people in particular but after reading the site the last few days ....

Can't we stop using inflammatory terms like 'knicker wetters', 'happy clappers' and whatnot, from either sides, stuff we all know pisses people off?

Yeah, some people think we are going to struggle and risk relegation, others think we are going to be fine. Some of us think Dean is doing a good job, others think he's showing signs of naivety.

Can't we just accept that we won't all agree on things and stop being so fucking confrontational about it all the time? It's like making your point and countering an argument isn't enough unless you've slipped in something you really know is going to rile someone (and when lots of us have been here for years, we all know what these things are)?

It's a football discussion website, we're not all going to agree all the time, anyone who can't handle conflicting opinions should probably waste their work time spend their leisure time elsewhere.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villa75 on September 30, 2019, 01:55:30 PM
I haven't seen anybody who thinks we should be "winning all 7 games"?

I know plenty that have expected us to win, given the opposition, more than one though. Moaning, entitled bastards that they are.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Smithy on September 30, 2019, 02:12:14 PM
"most points lost from a winning position" is a horrible stat, but I'd much rather be sat here having lost leads we'd earned, than never having looked like leading games.  Clearly we have a problem in either finishing off teams, or holding on to leads - that reason might be tactical, it might be psychological, who knows - but I do know I'd rather be supporting a team that struggles to hold to leads than trying to get them in the first place.

We haven't had a lot of luck, and VAR has cost us too, and these are things that will hopefully even themselves out over the course of the season, but we clearly need to be doing better.  That said, it's still so early we're literally a couple of wins from upper mid-table and I'd like to see us get at least one of those this weekend.  This team feels a million miles better than the one that was relegated, and I'm still confident it will come good (even if 'good' means midtable mediocrity).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 30, 2019, 02:29:42 PM
With the players we've got and the way they go about their work, even mid-table mediocrity will be nothing if not blummin entertaining. I'll have that for now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 30, 2019, 05:11:41 PM
This is a general point, not aimed at any people in particular but after reading the site the last few days ....

Can't we stop using inflammatory terms like 'knicker wetters', 'happy clappers' and whatnot, from either sides, stuff we all know pisses people off?

Yeah, some people think we are going to struggle and risk relegation, others think we are going to be fine. Some of us think Dean is doing a good job, others think he's showing signs of naivety.

Can't we just accept that we won't all agree on things and stop being so fucking confrontational about it all the time? It's like making your point and countering an argument isn't enough unless you've slipped in something you really know is going to rile someone (and when lots of us have been here for years, we all know what these things are)?

It's a football discussion website, we're not all going to agree all the time, anyone who can't handle conflicting opinions should probably waste their work time spend their leisure time elsewhere.
Can I still say "humbug"?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on September 30, 2019, 05:30:54 PM
Draw at Norwich, beat Brighton and I will feel better
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on September 30, 2019, 05:55:00 PM
You see, Risso, I'm not the one who's worried. I'm not the one who thinks the end is nigh, who thinks everyone is shit, a waste of money and out of their depth. I think we'll be fine. I think our manager is great, will do a fine job for us and will be talked about for years.

We're not having the best run, but we're not being fucked over either. We haven't got a divine right to walk the league or to beat anyone. Based on the league positions last year, we started this as the lowest ranked.

We spent a lot of money replacing half the squad or making loans permanent. Given all the changes I think we need time to gel but already there are some great signs.

Of course I'd rather we won every game, of course I'm disappointed when we don't, but let's not cry about it eh?


I agree with everything you said here 100%

the biggest problem i have is we were having massive arguments last season because you were saying exactly the same thing about Bruce
not trying to be horrible but your track record of calling it is a bit rubbish really

Iím on your side re Smith but wasnít re Bruce just hoping your judgement improved a bit else weíre all doomed
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on October 01, 2019, 11:04:18 AM
You see, Risso, I'm not the one who's worried. I'm not the one who thinks the end is nigh, who thinks everyone is shit, a waste of money and out of their depth. I think we'll be fine. I think our manager is great, will do a fine job for us and will be talked about for years.

We're not having the best run, but we're not being fucked over either. We haven't got a divine right to walk the league or to beat anyone. Based on the league positions last year, we started this as the lowest ranked.

We spent a lot of money replacing half the squad or making loans permanent. Given all the changes I think we need time to gel but already there are some great signs.

Of course I'd rather we won every game, of course I'm disappointed when we don't, but let's not cry about it eh?


I agree with everything you said here 100%

the biggest problem i have is we were having massive arguments last season because you were saying exactly the same thing about Bruce
not trying to be horrible but your track record of calling it is a bit rubbish really

Iím on your side re Smith but wasnít re Bruce just hoping your judgement improved a bit else weíre all doomed

I believe in giving people a chance.

The difference this season is that Smith's career has always had an upwards trajectory and I believe he's still improving.

Bruce was dealt a shit hand at the beginning of last season and had a lot to cope with but deserved to go in the end.

I just don't want dissenting voices taking over and for Smith not to get a proper chance.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SW9-VILLA on October 01, 2019, 12:30:43 PM
I think a fair few people got excited after the euphoric end to last season. That and maybe seeing premier league not being great last few seasons led to a few thinking we'd actually do a Wolves and be comfortable in top half.

Wolves stormed the Championship and won it, we went up via play-offs so anyone expecting us to perform similarly to Wolves need to manage their expectations. It's quite remarkable for any newly promoted team to have a season like that anyway.

I think some of our fans got used to us winning a lot last season and expected more of the same despite the step up in quality.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on October 01, 2019, 03:05:06 PM
I think a fair few people got excited after the euphoric end to last season. That and maybe seeing premier league not being great last few seasons led to a few thinking we'd actually do a Wolves and be comfortable in top half.

Wolves stormed the Championship and won it, we went up via play-offs so anyone expecting us to perform similarly to Wolves need to manage their expectations. It's quite remarkable for any newly promoted team to have a season like that anyway.

I think some of our fans got used to us winning a lot last season and expected more of the same despite the step up in quality.

we are performing similar to Wolves this season though they are just two points ahead of us
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on October 01, 2019, 04:28:15 PM
I think a fair few people got excited after the euphoric end to last season. That and maybe seeing premier league not being great last few seasons led to a few thinking we'd actually do a Wolves and be comfortable in top half.

Wolves stormed the Championship and won it, we went up via play-offs so anyone expecting us to perform similarly to Wolves need to manage their expectations. It's quite remarkable for any newly promoted team to have a season like that anyway.

I think some of our fans got used to us winning a lot last season and expected more of the same despite the step up in quality.

You can throw in Purslow and Dean Smith too then if you're saying that as they had a lot to say pre season about ambitions.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ads on October 01, 2019, 06:02:59 PM
It's been very fine margins. We've been on the end of some rank decisions and our naivety seems to have been punished disproportionately.

It wouldn't be particular unfair to argue we ought to be on 11 or 12 points.

But here we are, learning, but certainly giving cause for optimism as much as concern. Watford and Newcastle have the stretch of relegation about them while we're playing ok.

Conversion from ok to points must start to happen though. 4-6 points from the next two ought to be in our grasp. Anything from the next two thereafter would be highly unexpected.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 01, 2019, 11:26:54 PM
Not worried, plenty of goals in our wingers, midfield and forward. They will come and so will the points, weíre playing well 👍
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on October 02, 2019, 03:52:50 AM
I havenít looked this up but how did Eddie Howe start when Bournemouth first game up? Heís a manager whoís grown with his role and responsibilities as a PL manager. Always impressed with him and it could be that Dean is just learning his job, making mistakes, doing some good things. Just all part of the process.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on October 02, 2019, 06:49:40 AM
I havenít looked this up but how did Eddie Howe start when Bournemouth first game up? Heís a manager whoís grown with his role and responsibilities as a PL manager. Always impressed with him and it could be that Dean is just learning his job, making mistakes, doing some good things. Just all part of the process.

W2 D1 L4 from the first 7. (wins both against teams with 10 men, though they were already winning both games).

The it was DLLLLDD. Including two games shipping 5.

We beat them first game after they had 59% possession, out passed us and had more shots too. Gestede scored the only goal.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 05, 2019, 11:44:04 AM
When you compare our squads this season to last, you can break down our current plight to this:

GK - IMPROVEMENT - Heaton -(*Though Steer I felt was unlucky to lose the shirt - Not a critical upgrade imo)
DF - IMPROVEMENT throughout - Better, more mobile RB and LB in Guilbert and Targett, additions of Engels and Konsa improves depth in CB positions too.
DM -  IMPROVEMENT - Replacing Whelan and Jedinak with Nakamba and Douglas Luiz. Younger, bettter players.
WINGS - IMPROVEMENT - Additions of Jota and Trezeguet
FWD - WORSE - Wesley is so far not showing enough - Not enough effort, doesn't hold the ball up, and is rarely in the right position for a lone CF

I must admit, whilst I appreciate what Tammy did for us last season, I wasn't too bothered about not getting him back this season, as I didn't think he'd cut it in the Premier League (didn't set the world alight with Swansea or his cameo appearances for Chelsea). How wrong was I!

It's clear as day that our CF position is the problem. The team is generally playing well, but by not having someone that can show for the ball (and hold it up!), it's putting way too much pressure on them -especially later in games - which i think is why they're tiring so easily leading to silly mistakes.

I thought it would be risky putting all of our eggs in the Wesley basket, and so far, this has proved true. If Dean and the owners can get someone in as soon as that January window opens, I think we'll be okay - A good second half to the season in fact! If he persists with him, we're only heading in one direction imo.





Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on October 05, 2019, 12:07:27 PM
With regards to Abraham, it mustn't be overlooked that at Chelsea he's surrounded by a more accomplished group than we've assembled. If all things remained the same and we transpose him for Wes, he'd still not have a hatful because we don't create that many chances for a centre-forward. His conversion rate with us wasn't stunning anyway.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nii Lamptey on October 05, 2019, 12:14:18 PM
Kind of agree. Maybe Tammy isn't the answer, but if it was a straight choice between him and Wesley at the moment, it certainly wouldn't be the latter.

Regardless of who it is in that slot, I do think our achilles heel has been that FW position. We're crying out for someone that the team can just ping the ball to (and it sticks), to give them a little breather. This league is relentless compared to where we've just come from, and I think our main issue is that they're all fooked after 60mins* due to there being no let up for them.

*On that note, you've also got to question Dean's constant stubborness to not make subs until it's too late.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 05, 2019, 12:47:17 PM
Not worried, plenty of goals in our wingers, midfield and forward. They will come and so will the points, weíre playing well 👍

Don't see plenty of goals tbh. Think McGinn is looking good for double figures and could well be our leading goalscorer this season. The rest look in 5-8 goal bracket to me, yes even Wes.

Could still be enough if we get back to keeping clean sheets.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SamTheMouse on October 05, 2019, 01:28:20 PM
I think we are a pretty good side, barring some iffy play from Wesley at times (hopefully this is a learning curve).

The biggest issue is that we just haven't been able to maintain the required level of performance consistently over 90 minutes. If we can improve on that, I think we'll be fine.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on October 05, 2019, 07:29:20 PM
Not worried, plenty of goals in our wingers, midfield and forward. They will come and so will the points, weíre playing well 👍

Don't see plenty of goals tbh. Think McGinn is looking good for double figures and could well be our leading goalscorer this season. The rest look in 5-8 goal bracket to me, yes even Wes.

Could still be enough if we get back to keeping clean sheets.

Appreciate that this looks easier to say after today, but I did post elsewhere about sharing the goals around should Wesley not get too many.

If you say we would need to score roughly 40-45 goals (read somewhere that goals scored correlates quite closely to points gained) then hopefully something like this wouldnít be unrealistic:

Wesley/Davis/Kodjia - 15-18 goals
El Ghazi/Trezeguet/Jota - 10-12 goals
Midfield - 10-15 goals
Defence - 3-5 goals
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on October 05, 2019, 07:55:36 PM
Don't see plenty of goals tbh.

This comment has not aged well!!!   ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard E on October 05, 2019, 08:05:56 PM
Iím starting to get worried about how much Champions League tickets are going to cost.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on October 05, 2019, 08:06:28 PM
Don't see plenty of goals tbh.

This comment has not aged well!!!   ;) ;D ;D ;D


I predicted a 2-2 draw.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 05, 2019, 08:39:13 PM
Don't see plenty of goals tbh.

This comment has not aged well!!!   ;) ;D ;D ;D

Always delighted to be proved utterly wrong at times!

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: david wall on October 05, 2019, 10:43:48 PM
Iím starting to get worried about how much Champions League tickets are going to cost.

#Levels 😁
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on October 05, 2019, 10:45:51 PM
Slightly less.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on October 05, 2019, 10:47:46 PM
Iím starting to get worried about how much Champions League tickets are going to cost.

#Levels 😁


I worry about how much we will be fined by UEFA for "Not respecting the Champions League anthem".
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brentastonb6 on October 06, 2019, 12:16:37 AM
Don't see plenty of goals tbh.

This comment has not aged well!!!   ;) ;D ;D ;D

Always delighted to be proved utterly wrong at times!

Well done good Sir for acknowledging it, me Iím just delighted to be right on occasion 😀


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on October 06, 2019, 12:58:31 AM
Obviously still worried in a literal sense. It's a tough division, and nobody is owed anything - just ask Norwich, going from beating the best team on earth (IMO) to getting trashed by a fellow promotion side at home!

It's a crazy league, and good sides will go down as I've always said. I just feel happy to have a team to be proud of. They showed today they have quality, desire, and a willingness to not stay still but to always strive for more. So happy to be a Villan this evening.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on October 19, 2019, 03:59:45 PM
With Manchester United and Spurs looking likely to fill two of the three relegation places I reckon we will be fine.
 ;)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 19, 2019, 05:09:59 PM
Thank McGrath we won but another game we didn't do enough v 10 men, it's an itch we really need to scratch going forward.

Going into injury time I think it was one corner and one shot on target in the second half.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on October 19, 2019, 05:19:46 PM
I'm worried about the paltry allocation of tickets for next season's Champions League Final.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on October 19, 2019, 05:26:50 PM
What I think is interesting is that we're now joint 5th for goal scoring so our problems aren't going forward, despite us looking a bit toothless at times. We just need to learn to be a bit more ruthless. Generally the league starts to take shape after 9-10 games and we're bang in mid-table, pretty much where the vote on here (whichever thread it was) predicted. Today also saw our first goal from a defender, I doubt many would've predicted Targett for that particular stat.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Scovilla on October 19, 2019, 05:28:24 PM
Worried? Nah
(https://i.ibb.co/xLbNsRN/IMG-1384-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xLbNsRN)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on October 19, 2019, 05:29:16 PM
It was more likely than Taylor!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Diablo on October 19, 2019, 05:36:39 PM
With Manchester United and Spurs looking likely to fill two of the three relegation places I reckon we will be fine.
 ;)
Haha! If only.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: London Villan on October 19, 2019, 05:37:36 PM
Won as many games now as we did in the season went down...
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on October 19, 2019, 06:41:41 PM
It was more likely than Taylor!

Well yeah but if more likely to score than Taylor is your bar then most of this forum probably come above him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on October 19, 2019, 06:52:52 PM
I still think there's a strong chance of us being in the scrap come the final months of the season, so wins like today are really really important with the long-term in view. In the short term, we've got very tough run of games coming up now, so it was absolutely vital that a possible 2-3 consecutive defeats/winless games didn't become 3-4. We won't be in the relegation zone after the next round of fixtures barring a small mathematical miracle, and that's good to know.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on October 19, 2019, 07:12:07 PM
Yes I'n worried that the shite VAR may cost us a top six finish!!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LeeB on October 19, 2019, 09:06:53 PM
I still think there's a strong chance of us being in the scrap come the final months of the season, so wins like today are really really important with the long-term in view. In the short term, we've got very tough run of games coming up now, so it was absolutely vital that a possible 2-3 consecutive defeats/winless games didn't become 3-4. We won't be in the relegation zone after the next round of fixtures barring a small mathematical miracle, and that's good to know.

I think there will be half the division still in the scrap come the last few games. A lot of teams you would see in it look decent and nobody looks rank bad.

But I believe we will improve, and we have Grealish who is as good if not better than anyone outside the top two, and McGinn.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clampy on October 19, 2019, 09:08:31 PM
One thing I like about us under Dean Smith is that we never give up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard E on October 19, 2019, 09:12:34 PM
Think we could still do with getting another striker in during the January window.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clampy on October 19, 2019, 09:13:29 PM
Think we could still do with getting another striker in during the January window.

I think Kodjia could play a part still but otherwise, I agree.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on October 19, 2019, 09:21:08 PM
If we can hold a mid table position by the time we have played Chelsea away we will  be comfortable. However if, as it is likely, we are 16th or lower then we will be involved in the relegation scrap all season.
36 points will be enough  and we need 25 from 29 games. Surely that's do able?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on October 19, 2019, 09:25:35 PM
Win the next 2 league games, and the title is as good as ours. Guilbert with a back heel to Grealish who dummies a pass before playing it perfectly through to McGinn bursting through from midfield to slot it past the keeper and wrap up the game in front of a rammed Holte as we show Liverpool who truly are the best now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on October 19, 2019, 09:34:29 PM
I still think there's a strong chance of us being in the scrap come the final months of the season, so wins like today are really really important with the long-term in view. In the short term, we've got very tough run of games coming up now, so it was absolutely vital that a possible 2-3 consecutive defeats/winless games didn't become 3-4. We won't be in the relegation zone after the next round of fixtures barring a small mathematical miracle, and that's good to know.

I think there will be half the division still in the scrap come the last few games. A lot of teams you would see in it look decent and nobody looks rank bad.

But I believe we will improve, and we have Grealish who is as good if not better than anyone outside the top two, and McGinn.

Agree with this. With every team below Liverpool looking fallible and all the bottom teams being capable of good performances/games I think it could be over of those where the league is tight all the way down and a high total is needed to be out of the shit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on October 19, 2019, 11:31:30 PM
There's still teams with less than a point per game though so 35-36 will probably be about the level, which isn't all that unusual, I suspect a few teams will find some consistency through the middle of the season and
 going into the last 7-8 it will be 1-2 that look fucked and 4-5 others in the battle, so long as we don't look like we're getting drawn into that then it'll have been a good season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: robbo1874 on October 20, 2019, 01:50:00 AM
No 😎🍺👍😄
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Louzie0 on October 20, 2019, 02:06:29 AM
Iím with robbo.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 20, 2019, 12:01:10 PM
There's still teams with less than a point per game though so 35-36 will probably be about the level, which isn't all that unusual, I suspect a few teams will find some consistency through the middle of the season and
 going into the last 7-8 it will be 1-2 that look fucked and 4-5 others in the battle, so long as we don't look like we're getting drawn into that then it'll have been a good season.

Think it will be higher.

The league table from 9 games in last year had a bottom 4 of:

Cardiff 5 points
Fulham 5 points
Huddersfield 3 points
Newcastle 2 points

Brighton in 12th actually had 11 points so that's similar.

Much bigger gap to bottom 4 than now and also Fulham and Huddersfield hardly won a game for months so those two were both cut adrift quickly.

Don't see the same happening this season, can see Watford at some stage of the season winning 3/4 and getting out of bottom 3 so we still have plenty of work to do. Last two weeks have shown we are capable of winning the games we really need to so that's very promising so the odd shock result now would help.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: wittonwarrior on October 20, 2019, 12:11:05 PM
Apart from Palace away that was our worst performance of the season yesterday and we still won

May not pull up any trees this season but we will be safe
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mike on October 20, 2019, 09:37:28 PM
On the plus side, I think Norwich are fairly determined to get relegated.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on October 20, 2019, 10:36:28 PM
I think we will be ok but the performance yesterday hopefully reminds people that come out with, we are much better than ............
Because we are really not much better than any one in this division.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on October 20, 2019, 10:39:48 PM
We're better than the teams below us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on October 20, 2019, 10:40:37 PM
Anyway, a little less now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on October 20, 2019, 10:40:52 PM
I donít think weíve been appreciably better or worse than any of our opponents so far. Probably didnít deserve a win yesterday, but thatís more than offset by games where we were unlucky one way or another and didnít get the points we deserved.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hipkiss92 on October 20, 2019, 11:01:12 PM
Played 6 of 10 teams above us, drawn 2 lost 4. Played 3 won 3 9f 9 teams below us. Table would suggest we're in about the right position
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on October 20, 2019, 11:01:44 PM
Seems a very strange league this year. There are the top two and then everyone else. That could possibly result in a higher than normal points mark to stay up. Norwich hardly spent any money so must have been planning for a relegation battle. A number of other teams could get drawn into it. Next 4 games going to be huge for our chances.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on October 20, 2019, 11:17:19 PM
Seems a very strange league this year. There are the top two and then everyone else. That could possibly result in a higher than normal points mark to stay up. Norwich hardly spent any money so must have been planning for a relegation battle. A number of other teams could get drawn into it. Next 4 games going to be huge for our chances.

Behave. The next three mean diddly squat for our chances, unless you're talking about us winning the league!

Newcastle at home is one we really need 3 points from though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on October 20, 2019, 11:50:49 PM
Seems a very strange league this year. There are the top two and then everyone else. That could possibly result in a higher than normal points mark to stay up. Norwich hardly spent any money so must have been planning for a relegation battle. A number of other teams could get drawn into it. Next 4 games going to be huge for our chances.

Behave. The next three mean diddly squat for our chances, unless you're talking about us winning the league!

Newcastle at home is one we really need 3 points from though.

And we'd better fucking get them otherwise the 'mad few' will be mad as hell!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on October 21, 2019, 12:01:03 AM
4 points is achievable from Wolves-Newcastle.

Other two is probably just about keeping the GD in healthy state although Liverpool haven't exactly blown teams away outside of Anfield this season, poor today and only won by one goal at Sheffield United and Southampton.

Important we don't gift them a goal early on and keep it 0-0 as long as possible.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2019, 03:48:37 PM
May as well dust this one off. Three straight defeats and today the worst of all of them. We looked dreadful for 95% of the game. And Dean Smith just has no idea how to set up when Jack isn't in the game. As it stands we are going to be very lucky if we can find 3 teams worse than us. Dean Smith needs to figure this out or he might be looking for a new job. The owners won't want their investment playing Championship football again next season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 10, 2019, 03:52:58 PM
I think we are going down.

It's all well and good putting together patches of decent play in the big games but ultimately futile if you come away with zero points.

Where are the matches where we can really be expected to take three points?

The full strength side is barely good enough and even the slightest exposure to injuries and we look like a lower half championship side.

I am sure we will have plenty of games where we will be able to say we played well, but in too many of those games we will fail to take points.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2019, 03:55:30 PM
We'll stay up no problem.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 10, 2019, 03:55:53 PM
No
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2019, 03:56:04 PM
To think the 140m or whatever it was we spent got us to become a bottom six side. And we will drop even lower without another 50m being spent in January. Our forward options are fucking mince.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 10, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
We've got half the team out, and we've narrowly lost to a team that qualified for Europe and another that won the European Cup. I'm not going to reach for the razor blades just yet. Get Grealish fit and bring on Newcastle.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 03:57:50 PM
I think we are going down.

It's all well and good putting together patches of decent play in the big games but ultimately futile if you come away with zero points.

Where are the matches where we can really be expected to take three points?



The full strength side is barely good enough and even the slightest exposure to injuries and we look like a lower half championship side.

I am sure we will have plenty of games where we will be able to say we played well, but in too many of those games we will fail to take points.

Two of the teams we beat last month?

We play Norwich, Southampton and Watford over 7 days in December. I think it's fair to say with Liverpool cup game also thrown into the mix that is a hugely critical part of the season and will set the tone for how big the task is from January onwards.

We'll stay up but we need to keep our big players fit. Newcastle is winnable game but that will be a struggle if likes of Heaton and Grealish are out as they simply gives the whole team more confidence and quality out there.

Today to me showed the mistake in not doing more on August 31s. We lack quality in the final third.

Let's remember we barely won a game for three months without Grealish in the championship so not sure why people are expecting us to go to established prem teams away from home and get at least a point.

I fully expected us to lose when I saw the team at 1pm. Good at least for our GD we somehow only lost by one goal.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villadelph on November 10, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
While I have a hard time seeing any squad currently in the bottom three accumulating more points than us, I AM NOT HAPPY with the product right now.

Dean is doing a poor job, there's no way around that fact. We can't play into our lone striker, our wingers are terrible and we throw away points.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 10, 2019, 03:59:10 PM
Wesley seems to have two settings - best player on the pitch or absent.

Not buying another striker was a mistake.

I don't think we'll be experiencing a comedy relegation like the last time we went down, I think we'll be one of those sides people think try to play good stuff but ultimately fail.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Stu on November 10, 2019, 03:59:11 PM
Newcastle will nick a 1-0 off us, nailed on.

I think the team is too lightweight tbh.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: GarTomas on November 10, 2019, 03:59:58 PM
No. Weíve had one transfer window where we rebuilt the squad.  It was always going to be a tough first year back.

Some smart additions in Jan and I think we will be fine.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2019, 04:00:49 PM
Newcastle won't be a pushover at all. They've won 2 straight, will be very confident. If Jack is back I can see us getting something from it, and that something needs to be a win. But if not then I just don't see how we can win.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 10, 2019, 04:01:56 PM
No, not at all.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 10, 2019, 04:02:44 PM
I think we are going down.

It's all well and good putting together patches of decent play in the big games but ultimately futile if you come away with zero points.

Where are the matches where we can really be expected to take three points?



The full strength side is barely good enough and even the slightest exposure to injuries and we look like a lower half championship side.

I am sure we will have plenty of games where we will be able to say we played well, but in too many of those games we will fail to take points.

Two of the teams we beat last month?

We play Norwich, Southampton and Watford over 7 days in December. I think it's fair to say with Liverpool cup game also thrown into the mix that is a hugely critical part of the season and will set the tone for how big the task is from January onwards.

We'll stay up but we need to keep our big players fit. Newcastle is winnable game but that will be a struggle if likes of Heaton and Grealish are out as they simply gives the whole team more confidence and quality out there.

Today to me showed the mistake in not doing more on August 31s. We lack quality in the final third.

Let's remember we barely won a game for three months without Grealish in the championship so not sure why people are expecting us to go to established prem teams away from home and get at least a point.

I fully expected us to lose when I saw the team at 1pm. Good at least for our GD we somehow only lost by one goal.

The point about Grealish - that's exactly it. He gets injured and we can't be expecting to get anything against a team barely above us in the league.



Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 10, 2019, 04:03:24 PM
Grealish missing is a nightmare for us, if affects the whole team.

On the flipside, when he comes back it'll give the whole team a boost and we will batter someone.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 04:03:54 PM
No. Weíve had one transfer window where we rebuilt the squad.  It was always going to be a tough first year back.

Some smart additions in Jan and I think we will be fine.

Same for me. I said in August 14th place and 42 points.

Think Norwich and Southampton will start getting cut adrift in next few weeks, the danger is Watford could go on a run, they have some streaky players.

Again I get the feeling some were getting carried away after the Norwich and Brighton wins and thinking top half was a certainty. Reality is Norwich are the worst team in this league and Brighton played with 10 men for 50 minutes and we only just beat them.

Since then we've lost three games in which I only really expected a point at best (and we should've got that point unexpectedly last week) And we played two of those games without our best player.

There are reasons if you look beyond the reactionary stuff. I was more worried in August when we weren't winning and didn't really look like scoring much.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2019, 04:04:42 PM
The truth is while Jack is an outstanding player we only have one player anywhere near that quality. In the PL that's just not enough.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on November 10, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
I'm getting a bit fed up of Smith's lack of flexibility regarding formation. Try something else.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: GarTomas on November 10, 2019, 04:07:44 PM
The truth is while Jack is an outstanding player we only have one player anywhere near that quality. In the PL that's just not enough.

Fair to a point. I think some of the recruitment, Nakamba, Engels, Guilbert to name 3 have the potential to be decent premiership players. 

Weíre not getting battered (yet!) by anyone which if I compare to Watford, Norwich and Southampton is a big plus.

I think a team could stay up this year on 34.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 10, 2019, 04:07:58 PM
Our next five fixtures...outside of Newcastle who are actually in decent form...fuck me. Sheff Utd at their place will be rock hard. We might only get 4 points from the next 15

NEWCASTLE H
MAN U A
CHELSEA A
LEICESTER H
SHEFF UTD A
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 04:09:01 PM
The truth is while Jack is an outstanding player we only have one player anywhere near that quality. In the PL that's just not enough.

That's an issue when you just buy young and up coming players from smaller leagues. No problem with that policy but we also need some experienced players.

We need to do this in January, step up the transfer quality a little.

People wonder why Wolves are again top half and pretty much through to europa league knock outs. Moutinho in midfield has about 80 caps for Portugal. Neves was starting in the CL at 19 years old. Jimenez, 22 goals in 70 games for Mexico.

That's the sort of proven quality we need in next two transfer windows if we are serious about being top half in this league this time next year.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on November 10, 2019, 04:09:13 PM
This is exactly what I feared about getting back into the PL, particularly with a manager ,who I love, but with no relevant experience.

Weíre doing a full circle, with or without Grealish.

Itís going to be a long hard winter and January signings are essential.

Obviously too early to say weíre going down but itís a distinct possibility as things stand.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on November 10, 2019, 04:09:58 PM
I can't see many points there. The plus side is we won't be suffering the same sort of January transfer window we had in 2016.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on November 10, 2019, 04:12:21 PM
All about January now. Iíll be extremely surprised if weíre not in the bottom 3 at Christmas and if we donít spend big money, at least, on a striker and one wide player, we may as well admit weíre down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Billy Walker on November 10, 2019, 04:14:13 PM
The Man City/Liverpool double-header always had the potential to destabilise us a little.  We have to regroup now and not panic or lose our heads.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 04:15:29 PM
Our next five fixtures...outside of Newcastle who are actually in decent form...fuck me. Sheff Utd at their place will be rock hard. We might only get 4 points from the next 15

NEWCASTLE H
MAN U A
CHELSEA A
LEICESTER H
SHEFF UTD A

The 5-6 fixtures after that will decide our season I think.

Norwich (h)

Southampton (h)

Watford (a)

Burnley (a)

Man. City (h) (o.k let's ignore that one).

Brighton (a)

Watford (h)

Make or break period certainly. We need to get our key players fit and ready to win 2-3 of those and then things will look much better.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2019, 04:16:35 PM
Of course there's a chance we're going down, the same applies to at least half the division. We shouldn't even be in the top flight considering where we were 9 months ago. The changes we've undergone meant it was going to be a struggle at times, and is underlined by 9 months ago we were about to lose 2-0 at home to Albion to kill off any hopes of promotion. I'd bet that hardly any of us seriously believed we had a chance after that game. 2 players started today that started that Albion game, that's how much we've had to change things in such a short time.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2019, 04:23:47 PM
We won't go down. Have people forgotten just how shit Norwich, Watford and Newcastle are?!

And that's before we get to 9-0 Southampton, Sheff United who will drop off sooner or later and a host of other extremely average bottom half clubs.

We're currently missing our best player, our goalie and one of our centre halves. To compound matters, the guy we brought in as back up to our best player is also injured. And in our last three games we've played the two best teams in the league and possibly Europe.

It's really not that bad.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: KRS on November 10, 2019, 04:29:19 PM
No. Weíve only played 12 games so far with a new squad. There will be 3 worse teams than us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bobby Boy on November 10, 2019, 04:30:46 PM
We won't go down. Have people forgotten just how shit Norwich, Watford and Newcastle are?!

And that's before we get to 9-0 Southampton, Sheff United who will drop off sooner or later and a host of other extremely average bottom half clubs.

We're currently missing our best player, our goalie and one of our centre halves. To compound matters, the guy we brought in as back up to our best player is also injured. And in our last three games we've played the two best teams in the league and possibly Europe.

It's really not that bad.

Newcastle have just won their last 2 games and Watford are better than their position suggests. They won't go down.

We need to worry about ourselves first and foremost and there are concrete things to worry about.

11 points from 12 games with a really tough run of games after Newcastle is something to worry about.

We cannot afford to get into a death spiral.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 04:30:53 PM
Newcastle are looking o.k atm, that's a very dangerous game for us particularly if we don't have our full 11 out. They have rapid players on the counter attack.

Get the feeling Watford are going on a run, they have some winnable games over next five fixtures.

Southampton and Norwich do look relegation material though. That said Southampton could well change their manager, they've done that previous two seasons and stayed up just.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: TonyD on November 10, 2019, 04:31:03 PM
I think it depends on what players are bought in January and if Dean can change the formation.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 04:32:56 PM
Losing games from winning positions.
Confidence beginning to ebb.
We donít have a striker for this level and unless that changes we are in deep shit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on November 10, 2019, 04:39:01 PM
Wesley seems to have two settings - best player on the pitch or absent.

Not buying another striker was a mistake.

I don't think we'll be experiencing a comedy relegation like the last time we went down, I think we'll be one of those sides people think try to play good stuff but ultimately fail.

Genuine question but when has Wesley been the best player on the pitch?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 10, 2019, 04:42:37 PM
Wesley seems to have two settings - best player on the pitch or absent.

Not buying another striker was a mistake.

I don't think we'll be experiencing a comedy relegation like the last time we went down, I think we'll be one of those sides people think try to play good stuff but ultimately fail.

Genuine question but when has Wesley been the best player on the pitch?

Everton
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 10, 2019, 04:54:04 PM
Iím concerned after today
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 04:58:43 PM
Newcastle is really huge in the context of our season.

Win that and we could pick up the odd surprise draw in the next four fixtues. Don't and we could very well not win until December 21st so would more than likely be in bottom 3 by then.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: TheMalandro on November 10, 2019, 05:00:02 PM
It's going how I expected so far, a few highs and lots of disappointments.

I'm positive there will be three teams below us, at least.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on November 10, 2019, 05:07:06 PM
I donít think we will go down. Can understand people that are worried though.

We are just so naive and make too many poor decisions - particularly in both boxes. Both the players and the coaching staff that is. Just today, Luiz should be taking the yellow for bring Adama down for the second goal and the system Smith has us playing was just so open it was asking for trouble, especially in the first half.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LukeJames on November 10, 2019, 05:07:50 PM
Im genuinly not worried, I've seen more than eno7gh to suggest we will stay up comfortably.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mallo on November 10, 2019, 05:08:36 PM
Southampton and Norwich are goners for me, so we just need to beat 1 more team, but the lack of goals and threat is a big worry for me - I'd expect us to buy in Jan.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 05:13:53 PM
Southampton and Norwich are goners for me, so we just need to beat 1 more team, but the lack of goals and threat is a big worry for me - I'd expect us to buy in Jan.

Lack of goals? Weren't we the highest scorers just a few weeks back?

We just don't have the proven forward quality to trouble the best defences in the league. Wolves have a very good defensive structure, it's only twice this season they've conceded more than one goal in a league game.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on November 10, 2019, 05:33:09 PM
Looking at the next five, yes. I'm starting to. If we don't get three points against Newcastle, things could start getting really tough.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on November 10, 2019, 05:35:12 PM
Said at the start of the season we'd survive but only barely, finishing 16th or 17th. Not overly worried as I haven't seen anything to change that for better or worse.

That said I think even finishing 17th requires 1 or 2 quality signings in January. A striker is a must. I expect the owners, Suso and Smith will all be on the same page there.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 05:39:57 PM
Yeh, lets just buy a striker in January, easy.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on November 10, 2019, 05:46:32 PM
Yeh, lets just buy a striker in January, easy.


Is football supposed to be easy? I must have missed the memo.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: GemSaloon on November 10, 2019, 05:53:27 PM
Not too worried. It was always going to be tough coming up through the playoffs and having to replace so many in the summer. Overall we've played well so far this season, things like the goal against Palace being disallowed and conceding late goals against the big boys make it seem worse than it really is.

Still have full confidence in Smith, we're in a much better position now than when he took over. Bit more quality in January and beating the teams around us (especially at home) will see us home. It's a long term project, we have a lot of potential and a good coach, keep the faith.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 10, 2019, 05:59:11 PM
7 defeats out of 12 isn't good. Three teams worse than us at the moment so could be worse. My concern is teams immediately above us are West Ham, Tottenham and Everton and realistically they're not going to be down there come season's end. Likes of Newcastle, Brighton, Sheff U have stolen a march on us. Long way to go and overall I'm pretty confident we'll be fine but would be nice to be more comfortable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AV82EC on November 10, 2019, 06:11:52 PM
No.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on November 10, 2019, 06:23:30 PM
Yeh, lets just buy a striker in January, easy.


Didn't we buy Darren Bent, one of the highest scorers in Premier League history, in January?

Edit: And pick up Robbie Keane on loan?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on November 10, 2019, 06:23:40 PM
7 defeats out of 12 isn't good. Three teams worse than us at the moment so could be worse. My concern is teams immediately above us are West Ham, Tottenham and Everton and realistically they're not going to be down there come season's end. Likes of Newcastle, Brighton, Sheff U have stolen a march on us. Long way to go and overall I'm pretty confident we'll be fine but would be nice to be more comfortable.

Dropped points against 10 man Arsenal and West Ham have proved costly. They are two very average sides. Few extra points now would have us comfortable. It's worrying enough to be honest, particularly if Grealish cant shake off his current injury quickly. Summer signings seems a very mixed bag and we continue to concede late goals.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 06:26:29 PM
Yeh, lets just buy a striker in January, easy.


Didn't we buy Darren Bent, one of the highest scorers in Premier League history, in January?
Exactly
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 06:26:36 PM
7 defeats out of 12 isn't good. Three teams worse than us at the moment so could be worse. My concern is teams immediately above us are West Ham, Tottenham and Everton and realistically they're not going to be down there come season's end. Likes of Newcastle, Brighton, Sheff U have stolen a march on us. Long way to go and overall I'm pretty confident we'll be fine but would be nice to be more comfortable.

Dropped points against 10 man Arsenal and West Ham have proved costly. They are two very average sides. Few extra points now would have us comfortable. It's worrying enough to be honest, particularly if Grealish cant shake off his current injury quickly. Summer signings seems a very mixed bag and we continue to concede late goals.

Add in Burnley. Niggly team to play against but we were leading twice against them. Bournemouth was also a disappointment given it was our first home game back, nightmare first 10 minutes.

That period we should've got more points on the board given the match situations and way this league is it hurts you when you then get a run of fixtures against better teams and start losing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 06:28:50 PM
7 defeats out of 12 isn't good. Three teams worse than us at the moment so could be worse. My concern is teams immediately above us are West Ham, Tottenham and Everton and realistically they're not going to be down there come season's end. Likes of Newcastle, Brighton, Sheff U have stolen a march on us. Long way to go and overall I'm pretty confident we'll be fine but would be nice to be more comfortable.

Dropped points against 10 man Arsenal and West Ham have proved costly. They are two very average sides. Few extra points now would have us comfortable. It's worrying enough to be honest, particularly if Grealish cant shake off his current injury quickly. Summer signings seems a very mixed bag and we continue to concede late goals.

Add in Burnley. Niggly team to play against but we were leading twice against them. Bournemouth was also a disappointment given it was our first home game back, nightmare first 10 minutes.

That period we should've got more points on the board given the match situations and way this league is it hurts you when you then get a run of fixtures against better teams and start losing.
You have to take the opportunity in this league and we have thrown points away now we face difficult games and injuries and lack of form is beginning to tell.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 06:32:47 PM
I would say though we were unlucky after those back to back wins and being 11th we got Man. City and Liverpool straight after. It would be like Newcastle in good form having those two games up next rather than us and I think Southampton at home.

Add in how we messed up the end of the Liverpool game and it's a real momentum killer. Let's hope we come out firing v Newcastle to try to get back on track.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on November 10, 2019, 07:13:41 PM
The next few games now look a bit daunting - not panicking yet but my earlier thoughts of how teams promoted through the play off struggle are resurfacing
The gamble on Wesley doesn't seem to be returning anything
Newcastle ain't gonna be easy - I'm worried that SJM is starting to look jaded 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 10, 2019, 07:18:48 PM
We need to never hit the lows of the first half again.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on November 10, 2019, 07:44:26 PM
We need to never hit the lows of the first half again.

Very true. I think the first half today, Palace and possibly the first twenty minutes against Bournemouth have been the only times where I would say that our performances have been poor though.

The rest of the time I think we have been fairly decent performance wise, but the problem for me is that, while I reckon we would have a good chance of beating 14/15 teams when we are good, we just look vulnerable and unable to dig out a result even when our performance levels are ok.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: aj2k77 on November 10, 2019, 07:50:23 PM
We are too easy to beat and too easy to score against. If the team doesn't toughen up and make things harder for the opposition then we are going down. We need more of a never say die attitude. Expansive football is great and I'm not advocating going Bruceball but we can't be so open so often. Teams more often than not are not earning their shots against us. Simply too comfortable to play against and it isn't helped either by the lack of closing down by any of our ''front 3''.  The ball comes back too often and too quickly against us.

Must do better, a lot better.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 07:55:37 PM
Surely our GD would be much worse if we were easy to beat, I'm talking Southampton with -18 and Norwich with -17.

Even after the last three defeats we're still only on -3. Everyone bar Spurs above us to Brighton have worse GD than we do.

As negative as all that sounds in the final few weeks that will act as an extra point so it could prove very crucial come May.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JJ-AV on November 10, 2019, 07:56:33 PM
Any names other than Morelos?

TBH I'd be happy with him, concerns obviously about his temprement but he looks a real warrior from the front.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 07:59:15 PM
Talk Chelsea will let Giroud go for 5m. Don't know if he'd want to come up here but that would be a move that would be ambitious and also give us what we need upfront, guy who's vastly experienced and can score and hold it up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: aj2k77 on November 10, 2019, 08:07:24 PM
Surely our GD would be much worse if we were easy to beat, I'm talking Southampton with -18 and Norwich with -17.

Even after the last three defeats we're still only on -3. Everyone bar Spurs above us to Brighton have worse GD than we do.

As negative as all that sounds in the final few weeks that will act as an extra point so it could prove very crucial come May.

Most of our goal difference is the Norwich game. Take that away and we have the 4th worst goal difference, we are currently the 4th worst side in the division and we've lost 7 out of 12 games. We are easy to score against and too easy to beat. We need a bit more metal. We've also given up the most shots and most chances in the division this season. It's not time to throw the baby out with the bath water but something isn't quite right and open teams that concede a lot tend to get relegated. We need to tinker a little, the current system is ok at times and at others isn't making it hard enough for the opposition.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on November 10, 2019, 08:22:49 PM
I think the fact that only the top four teams have won over a third of their games shows the evenness/stodginess of the rest of the league.

I think are biggest problem so far is that we have had to be pretty much bang on it to win games. Yes, we have been unlucky with some decisions, but are too naive and havenít really shown that we can dig out a result when we are not performing at a high level enough (West Ham/Burnley/Arsenal/Liverpool etc.)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 10, 2019, 08:30:08 PM
I'd go even further, instead of just taking away 1 win, if we take away all of the goals we've scored then we're hammered on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on November 10, 2019, 08:43:56 PM
I'll be surprised if we're not in the bottom 3 after the run of games up until Christmas after Newcastle. 3 points against SB's boys is an absolute must.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on November 10, 2019, 09:11:46 PM
Iím certainly worried as this is a relegation battle no doubt. Iíve been disappointed with the fact that weíre so inflexible on formation and weíve not learnt at all from our mistakes. Itís gonna be a long hard season.

Not being able to change things up top is costing us. We never seem to have a plan B.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: TheMalandro on November 10, 2019, 09:16:46 PM
Enjoy it.

Worried? I was after the Fulham playoff final.
I'm not now.

I think we have enough quality to survive, but more importantly the players have the right character.

As for the two week international break - I'm starting to miss the non stop championship games.


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: TheMalandro on November 10, 2019, 09:17:44 PM
I'd rather we didn't get relegated  however!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on November 10, 2019, 09:21:19 PM
The International break has actually fallen well for us. A chance to get key players fit for what is a massive game against Newcastle.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 10, 2019, 09:21:43 PM
Enjoy it.

Worried? I was after the Fulham playoff final.
I'm not now.

I think we have enough quality to survive, but more importantly the players have the right character.

As for the two week international break - I'm starting to miss the non stop championship games.

The Championship stops for internationals, too. I don't mind a bit of time off, tbh. I'm not even going to depress myself by watching sodding Scotland.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LukeJames on November 10, 2019, 09:28:53 PM
Enjoy it.

Worried? I was after the Fulham playoff final.
I'm not now.

I think we have enough quality to survive, but more importantly the players have the right character.

As for the two week international break - I'm starting to miss the non stop championship games.

This, we have enough to survive this season. Then I have no doubt we will continue to build again.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 10, 2019, 09:48:42 PM
Enjoy it.

Worried? I was after the Fulham playoff final.
I'm not now.

I think we have enough quality to survive, but more importantly the players have the right character.

As for the two week international break - I'm starting to miss the non stop championship games.

This, we have enough to survive this season. Then I have no doubt we will continue to build again.

I really hope you are right. I must admit to being a bit worried
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 09:54:48 PM
I disagree, I do not think we have enough to survive this season.
A Centre forward is an absolute must if we are to survive.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 10, 2019, 09:59:41 PM
I'd like one, but not sure it's an "absolute must" bearing in mind we are currently outside the relegation zone and only six clubs have scored more goals than us. Last year Southampton didn't have a single player who scored more than seven and stayed up relatively comfortably.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on November 10, 2019, 10:03:15 PM
We'll be fine. Eventually.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on November 10, 2019, 10:05:55 PM
Not just a centre forward though, the midfield is lacking Luiz hasn't impressed me although Marvellous has done well and we really need cover for Jack I honestly believe if he had played today we may have got the points that's why we need cover for him don't ask me who.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 10, 2019, 10:08:31 PM
I am also concerned that we seem stuck with a rigid  4 3 3 system that is often not working for us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LukeJames on November 10, 2019, 10:15:54 PM
Enjoy it.

Worried? I was after the Fulham playoff final.
I'm not now.

I think we have enough quality to survive, but more importantly the players have the right character.

As for the two week international break - I'm starting to miss the non stop championship games.

This, we have enough to survive this season. Then I have no doubt we will continue to build again.

I really hope you are right. I must admit to being a bit worried
Last 3 results have put pressure on us to beat Newcastle, but I believe in the long run our philosophy will see us survive comfortably.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Mellin on November 10, 2019, 10:48:02 PM
We're in the middle of a tough run of fixtures. If we don't win against Newcastle we'll probably be in the relegation zone in 3 games time. I wouldn't be panicing though as it gets easier after that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 10, 2019, 11:22:55 PM
The International break has actually fallen well for us. A chance to get key players fit for what is a massive game against Newcastle.

I agree, we need them all out there. If Grealish was only 50/50, Engels only got a knock and Heaton has a calf strain they should all be ready for Newcastle in 15 days.

What today has shown is we won't be beating any reasonably good premier league team if we have a mini injury crisis. That needs to be improved in January otherwise more points will slip by in second half of the season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on November 11, 2019, 12:28:46 AM
For once, playing on the Monday night gives us a boost as we won't be in the bottom three and can concentrate on getting players fit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on November 11, 2019, 01:00:31 AM
Those burned points early in the season was always going to come back to haunt us.  Spurs, Bournemouth, Arsenal, West Ham, Burnley, Liverpool were all games where we were the architects of our own downfall. Losing leads/points late or just not taking advantage of playing 10 men.  Should taken at least 8 points from those games - instead we took 2. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on November 11, 2019, 03:25:21 AM
I'm worried.

But not at all about football and our place in this league.

Today we were without our first choice keeper, and then lost the second choice keeper to injury. We lost our first choice centre half before the game and our first choice left back during it.

We were without our best player, and captain, and his direct replacement.

We've just lost three in the bounce to three teams who between them have squads worth a fuck load more than ours (at least one of which probably has a player worth almost as much as our whole squad cost), who qualified for Europe, 2 in Champions League including the reigning champions, who will comfortably finish top two again.

We lost by a 1 goal margin in 2 games and in the other the team that beat us scored the average number of goals they've scored this season.

My pants are dry.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on November 11, 2019, 03:25:56 AM
And yes, we were shit today.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: de bank on November 11, 2019, 06:52:59 AM
I am a little worried, I think with Dean Smith being Ďone of our owní there brings some blindness, the 433 hasnít worked, it didnít really last season until greaish was fit & it papered over the cracks & itís not working now at all, the wingers are championship standard, it leaves us open & the midfield lightweight & Wes isolated, all these problems weíve been saying since last year! I donít think Smith is learning, I donít think we have played that well apart from about 2 games, yes, he needs time, from the Newcastle game till Xmas will be a crucial period for Dean smith.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on November 11, 2019, 07:13:46 AM
Not at all, weíve played a few of the best teams in this league over the last few weeks. We held our own against 2 of them the a good part and we just failed to turn up yesterday, which happens once and a while. It was a bad day at the office.

We knew it would be tough, even tougher when injuries kick in, but other than yesterday there is nothing to suggest in my view weíll be relegated.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: QuintonVilla on November 11, 2019, 09:48:24 AM
There is zero creativity without Grealish and he is seemingly the only one who can keep the ball as we gave it away everytime we had it yesterday. Our attacking options worry me though, I said at the start of the season I couldn't believe we spent so much money but left ourselves so short up front. If we don't sign a striker in January we'll go down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on November 11, 2019, 09:56:30 AM
I am a little worried, I think with Dean Smith being Ďone of our owní there brings some blindness, the 433 hasnít worked, it didnít really last season until greaish was fit & it papered over the cracks & itís not working now at all, the wingers are championship standard, it leaves us open & the midfield lightweight & Wes isolated, all these problems weíve been saying since last year! I donít think Smith is learning, I donít think we have played that well apart from about 2 games, yes, he needs time, from the Newcastle game till Xmas will be a crucial period for Dean smith.

Dean Smith is poor at making tactical changes during a game. Before Targett's injury we were being utterly annihilated throughout the pitch. The back four simply had to push further up the pitch, this was corrected at half time but at that stage Wolves should have been home and hosed.

It's all well and good giving good copy in post match interviews but managers earn their crust during the 90mins. Subs remain poor, Lansbury for Nakamba was another strange one.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ketzster on November 11, 2019, 10:26:20 AM
I am a little worried, I think with Dean Smith being Ďone of our owní there brings some blindness, the 433 hasnít worked, it didnít really last season until greaish was fit & it papered over the cracks & itís not working now at all, the wingers are championship standard, it leaves us open & the midfield lightweight & Wes isolated, all these problems weíve been saying since last year! I donít think Smith is learning, I donít think we have played that well apart from about 2 games, yes, he needs time, from the Newcastle game till Xmas will be a crucial period for Dean smith.

Yes. Iíve had huge doubts about Smith since last year and promotion didnít change that. Grealish came back and pulled us up, before that came some of the worst football Iíd ever seen from a Villa side. That 14 game run before Derby when Grealish came back told us more about Smiths capabilities than what came after. He needed to find a way of doing something different during that run and didnít.

The never changing formation, no matter who you are playing and who you have available didnít work between December and March, so it certainly wasnít going to work in the Premier League. Other than Rotherham away when we had no choice because of Mings being sent off, I canít remember a single minute of a single game under Smith where we have played anything other than 4-3-3. Heís great at getting us a lead, but thereís not much point in that if you donít change anything once the opposition make a change. Iíve never had such dread as I have under Smith when the opposition make a substitution. I canít think of any other manager that has never tried a different formation. His game management is very poor. A prime example being leaving Grealish on against Man City when the game was gone. I said to my uncle Ďwhy is he leaving Grealish on to get injured or sent off?í. Sure enough one of those inevitably happened.

People say Smith will learn. Thereís no evidence of it, just like there wasnít between Leeds at home and Stoke away last season. You can only learn if you are willing to change things, and I donít count playing Grealish on the left as a real change. Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool are all games that we might have won had Smith parked the bus or at least tried doing something different with 20 mins to go. Any substitutions are always like for like keeping the 4-3-3 which just wonít work at this level. It didnít work at Wigan away last season either when he made that triple substitution, so no, he doesnít learn. People say play 4-2-3-1 which I agree with but under Smith we know that isnít going to happen.

Weíve beaten a dreadful Everton side on that Friday, a dreadful Norwich side and got extremely lucky against a Brighton side that were running rings around us until Mooy got sent off. If Smith stays I think we are going down. At the moment we are in danger of wasting a great opportunity
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 11, 2019, 10:30:42 AM
Our midfield is not good enough to play 4-3-3. Yesterday he should have played 4-2-3-1, or 4-1-4-1, offer some protection, Dean in my humble opinion is to rigid to one system, without Jack we often look poor
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on November 11, 2019, 02:56:38 PM
Our midfield is not good enough to play 4-3-3. Yesterday he should have played 4-2-3-1, or 4-1-4-1, offer some protection, Dean in my humble opinion is to rigid to one system, without Jack we often look poor

Looks to me as if we were playing 4231 with Luiz and Nakamba sitting?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on November 11, 2019, 02:56:57 PM
My worry is the lack of fight and intensity, there is simply no excuse for that. Perhaps what happened in the last few minutes against Liverpool has dented confidence in the players?
However, a less talented and expensive squad at Sheffield United seem to stand up to the pressure and look like they'll survive in May.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on November 11, 2019, 03:26:30 PM
However, a less talented and expensive squad at Sheffield United seem to stand up to the pressure and look like they'll survive in May.

Much like Wolves yesterday, Sheffield United have a very good manager who has had pretty much the same group of players for 2-3 seasons and coach them very well to play the way that he wants them to.

Dean has only had 12 games with the majority of players that played yesterday. Iíve got faith that he will work it out as you can see for at least periods of pretty much all our games that when we are good we are a match for most teams. We do need to more more difficult to play against though when we are not at the top of our game. Think that is Smithís biggest test at the moment.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 11, 2019, 03:37:15 PM
Our midfield is not good enough to play 4-3-3. Yesterday he should have played 4-2-3-1, or 4-1-4-1, offer some protection, Dean in my humble opinion is to rigid to one system, without Jack we often look poor

Looks to me as if we were playing 4231 with Luiz and Nakamba sitting?
I think itís 4 3 3 with SJM roaming a bit from the right.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: QuintonVilla on November 11, 2019, 05:43:51 PM
I'm not questioning Smith and even if we go down he should stay, but his in game management hasn't been great this season. His subs are strange and poor most of the time and he doesn't seem to react very quickly to what's happening on the pitch. Yesterday in the first half you could see very early on that something wasn't working and we couldn't keep the ball but we didn't change anything and just plodded on until half time.

Then we had one sub left and he brings Lansbury on who didn't touch the ball. When you need a goal why would you not bring Kodjia on who is frustrating but can create something out of nothing at times or Hourihane who would have been a threat with any set piece around the box late on.

I also don't think we practice set pieces in training because ours are dreadful when Hourihane doesn't play. So many short corners or piss poor balls into the box.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 11, 2019, 06:02:02 PM
Our midfield is not good enough to play 4-3-3. Yesterday he should have played 4-2-3-1, or 4-1-4-1, offer some protection, Dean in my humble opinion is to rigid to one system, without Jack we often look poor

Looks to me as if we were playing 4231 with Luiz and Nakamba sitting?

From the Steve Bull stand it looked 4-3-3, maybe Iím wrong, then again at times I didnít really know what I was looking at!!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 11, 2019, 07:37:16 PM
I am a little worried, I think with Dean Smith being Ďone of our owní there brings some blindness, the 433 hasnít worked, it didnít really last season until greaish was fit & it papered over the cracks & itís not working now at all, the wingers are championship standard, it leaves us open & the midfield lightweight & Wes isolated, all these problems weíve been saying since last year! I donít think Smith is learning, I donít think we have played that well apart from about 2 games, yes, he needs time, from the Newcastle game till Xmas will be a crucial period for Dean smith.

Yes. Iíve had huge doubts about Smith since last year and promotion didnít change that. Grealish came back and pulled us up, before that came some of the worst football Iíd ever seen from a Villa side. That 14 game run before Derby when Grealish came back told us more about Smiths capabilities than what came after. He needed to find a way of doing something different during that run and didnít.

The never changing formation, no matter who you are playing and who you have available didnít work between December and March, so it certainly wasnít going to work in the Premier League. Other than Rotherham away when we had no choice because of Mings being sent off, I canít remember a single minute of a single game under Smith where we have played anything other than 4-3-3. Heís great at getting us a lead, but thereís not much point in that if you donít change anything once the opposition make a change. Iíve never had such dread as I have under Smith when the opposition make a substitution. I canít think of any other manager that has never tried a different formation. His game management is very poor. A prime example being leaving Grealish on against Man City when the game was gone. I said to my uncle Ďwhy is he leaving Grealish on to get injured or sent off?í. Sure enough one of those inevitably happened.

People say Smith will learn. Thereís no evidence of it, just like there wasnít between Leeds at home and Stoke away last season. You can only learn if you are willing to change things, and I donít count playing Grealish on the left as a real change. Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool are all games that we might have won had Smith parked the bus with 20 mins to go. Any substitutions are always like for like keeping the 4-3-3 which just wonít work at this level. It didnít work at Wigan away last season either when he made that triple substitution, so no, he doesnít learn. People say play 4-2-3-1 which I agree with but under Smith we know that isnít going to happen.

Weíve beaten a dreadful Everton side on that Friday, a dreadful Norwich side and got extremely lucky against a Brighton side that were running rings around us until Mooy got sent off. If Smith stays I think we are going down. At the moment we are in danger of wasting a great opportunity

The frightening thing about this post is that it is well argued, largely correct and worryingly convincing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chris Smith on November 11, 2019, 07:53:58 PM
When we were circling the plug for a few seasons prior to our relegation I always looked at the goal difference of the other sides around the bottom of the league compared to us and almost invariably those with the smaller gap were the ones that stayed up. This season the least worst are still 12 goals worse than us. Until that changes I remain confident that weíll be ok.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on November 11, 2019, 08:22:19 PM
I am a little worried, I think with Dean Smith being Ďone of our owní there brings some blindness, the 433 hasnít worked, it didnít really last season until greaish was fit & it papered over the cracks & itís not working now at all, the wingers are championship standard, it leaves us open & the midfield lightweight & Wes isolated, all these problems weíve been saying since last year! I donít think Smith is learning, I donít think we have played that well apart from about 2 games, yes, he needs time, from the Newcastle game till Xmas will be a crucial period for Dean smith.

Yes. Iíve had huge doubts about Smith since last year and promotion didnít change that. Grealish came back and pulled us up, before that came some of the worst football Iíd ever seen from a Villa side. That 14 game run before Derby when Grealish came back told us more about Smiths capabilities than what came after. He needed to find a way of doing something different during that run and didnít.

The never changing formation, no matter who you are playing and who you have available didnít work between December and March, so it certainly wasnít going to work in the Premier League. Other than Rotherham away when we had no choice because of Mings being sent off, I canít remember a single minute of a single game under Smith where we have played anything other than 4-3-3. Heís great at getting us a lead, but thereís not much point in that if you donít change anything once the opposition make a change. Iíve never had such dread as I have under Smith when the opposition make a substitution. I canít think of any other manager that has never tried a different formation. His game management is very poor. A prime example being leaving Grealish on against Man City when the game was gone. I said to my uncle Ďwhy is he leaving Grealish on to get injured or sent off?í. Sure enough one of those inevitably happened.

People say Smith will learn. Thereís no evidence of it, just like there wasnít between Leeds at home and Stoke away last season. You can only learn if you are willing to change things, and I donít count playing Grealish on the left as a real change. Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool are all games that we might have won had Smith parked the bus with 20 mins to go. Any substitutions are always like for like keeping the 4-3-3 which just wonít work at this level. It didnít work at Wigan away last season either when he made that triple substitution, so no, he doesnít learn. People say play 4-2-3-1 which I agree with but under Smith we know that isnít going to happen.

Weíve beaten a dreadful Everton side on that Friday, a dreadful Norwich side and got extremely lucky against a Brighton side that were running rings around us until Mooy got sent off. If Smith stays I think we are going down. At the moment we are in danger of wasting a great opportunity

The frightening thing about this post is that it is well argued, largely correct and worryingly convincing.

I agree.  There is absolutely no flexibility in what Smith does at all.  It's always the exact same formation, and then his substitutions are always like for like, and more often than not makes matters worse on the pitch.  At our best we play some very good football, but when we come under the cosh we never have any answer to it.  We got away with it in the Championship, but are getting punished regularly in the Premier League in the second half of an awful lot of games.  I expected a little bit more than hoping that there are three worse teams than us.  Still relatively early in the season, but the Newcastle game is looking huge.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 11, 2019, 08:24:17 PM
I think we'll batter Newcastle. Steve Bruce gets very confused by teams that play football.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on November 11, 2019, 08:29:09 PM
They beat Spurs and Bournemouth who both play football. Both sides beat us playing football. For all his shitness Bruce has got something going at Newcastle even if in the it will all come crashing down. But right now I don't fancy us without Grealish because we are just predictable.

The post by Mr Ketzster is very good
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on November 11, 2019, 08:37:29 PM
It's all very well to say if we'd parked the bus we might have won.  How many times did we slag of Bruce (and previous managers) for doing exactly that?  If you sit deep and invite pressure, more ofyen than not a good team will exploit it.

We do seem to have a soft underbelly, but we have been playing deeper to try to see games out, it's just that Smith likes to keep attacking options open with his subs to keep the oposition thinking.  I'm not saying I don't hink he's made mistakes, but I can often see the logic in what he is trying.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on November 11, 2019, 08:39:28 PM
They beat Spurs and Bournemouth who both play football. Both sides beat us playing football. For all his shitness Bruce has got something going at Newcastle even if in the it will all come crashing down. But right now I don't fancy us without Grealish because we are just predictable.

The post by Mr Ketzster is very good

You're right. I should have said that he gets confused when he plays a Dean Smith side.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on November 11, 2019, 08:48:01 PM
7 of the starting 11 yesterday were signed in the Summer so Smith's had precisely 12 games to work with them.  On top of that, we were missing our best player, his replacement, one of our centre halves and our goalie.  And then lost the replacement goalie and left back to injury in the first half.

And despite all that we lost by just 1 goal, away from home, to a team who qualified for Europe last year.

I really don't think it's time to get the razor blades out just yet.

I think we'll stuff Newcastle in a fortnight but even if we don't it's not the end of the world.  There's a long way to go in this season.  Anyone who thought we'd be comfortable was dreaming - it was always going to be a struggle but there's some absolutely abysmal teams in this division and we'll be fine.  Remember, it was only a week ago that we were getting plaudits for giving the European champions the scare of their lives.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AVH87 on November 11, 2019, 09:56:48 PM
Let's be honest, if Jack misses 13 games this season like he did last, we will be down. We won 2 of 13 in the Championship without him, OK so we've improved a bit in a few areas since then, but at this level I think we'd go on a similar run. Hopefully he's back for Newcastle and stays fit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on November 11, 2019, 10:20:24 PM
Our midfield is not good enough to play 4-3-3. Yesterday he should have played 4-2-3-1, or 4-1-4-1, offer some protection, Dean in my humble opinion is to rigid to one system, without Jack we often look poor

Looks to me as if we were playing 4231 with Luiz and Nakamba sitting?
I think itís 4 3 3 with SJM roaming a bit from the right.

Not sure about that, certainly when Grealish played recently it looked very much a 4231 with AEG, McGinn and Grealish the three. In truth we were a complete rabble in that first half so it was hard to know where anyone was playing, the players seemed in the same boat. McGinn definitely dropped deeper next to Luiz when Nakamba went off and Lansbury seemed to be playing up near Wesley, got in the box a good bit anyway.

I was very critical of Smith earlier in the season with the "two number eights" formation, which had Hourihane sitting and McGinn and Grealish further forward. Teams played through us at will. Nakamba has certainly added a bit of bite and mobility in there and Luiz is the natural partner for him. But he can start earning his spot on the team through performances on the pitch not on reputation from now on. We were pushing hard for an equaliser yesterday when he bottled physical contact with Traore for the second goal.

I'm not a huge fan of 352 or 343 but I think its something we could consider. Konsa in the middle with Engels and Mings on either side. We are far too easy to play against and arent creating enough chances, not a great combination.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on November 11, 2019, 11:12:47 PM
A team that continually alters its formation has a manager that doesn't know his best side.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on November 11, 2019, 11:27:54 PM
A team that continually alters its formation has a manager that doesn't know his best side.

It doesn't need to be continual change, just the ability to alter the formation or the type of substitutions once in a while to get a result.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 12, 2019, 12:06:15 AM
Let's be honest, if Jack misses 13 games this season like he did last, we will be down. We won 2 of 13 in the Championship without him, OK so we've improved a bit in a few areas since then, but at this level I think we'd go on a similar run. Hopefully he's back for Newcastle and stays fit.

When you think about it we've been pretty good with injuries this season. McGinn and Mings have played every game, Jack up to Liverpool had also played every game and I think Wesley has aswell. He's obviously not as good as the others but considering the lack of depth we have upfront it's important he stays fit.

So all our key players have been available up to Liverpool for every league fixture. I think bar Trez being suspended for West Ham the two regular wingers have also been available.

It's very difficult to do that for even half a season and now we're coming up to December knocks and strains are happening. Where we are at the club currently is we need our first choice 11 out to be confident of winning premier league games. I doubt I was the only one at 1pm yesterday looking at team news and thinking it would be a massive struggle to even get a point and so it proved.

It's not just us btw. West Ham's defence has completely gone to pot since Fabianski got injured, that joker they've got in goal now is one of worst premier league keepers I've seen since Mark Bunn was playing in this league. Also Man. United have looked better going forward since Martial returned.

Really shows you how crucial January is. At the very least we need to sign 2-3 who can be decent game changers off the bench and come in when likes of McGinn or Jack aren't available. A 2007 type window would be great as Young and Carew not only improved us that season but for the following seasons afterwards.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 12, 2019, 12:48:33 AM
I agree HQ, we were throwing away points with a full squad to pick from, now those points are going to be even harder to achieve.
Relying on the January transfer window is risky but as you say we need some quality recruits in some critical positions.
Centre Forward being the most important.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on November 12, 2019, 08:48:19 AM
We we have been slightly unfortunate with injuries is that the player who is perhaps closest to Jack in terms of skill set, in Jota, was also injured at the same time.

Would be the same with the GK position if Heaton is out for any length of time (not sure what the prognosis is for him?) as not many sides get down to their third choice keeper.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on November 12, 2019, 01:37:00 PM
A team that continually alters its formation has a manager that doesn't know his best side.

It doesn't need to be continual change, just the ability to alter the formation or the type of substitutions once in a while to get a result.

I know what you're saying but the squad isn't deep enough yet. We just don't have the creativity once Jack is out.  We have no third winger to put pressure on Trezeguet and El Ghazi unless Jack plays wide.  We need three or four more in come the transfer window.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on November 12, 2019, 02:37:11 PM
I think people hoping for 3 or 4 signing in January will be dissapointed.  My guess is we'll be looking at one or maybe two at most.  And even for those we'll probably be held to ransom until the end of the window.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on November 12, 2019, 02:54:36 PM
I think people hoping for 3 or 4 signing in January will be dissapointed.  My guess is we'll be looking at one or maybe two at most.  And even for those we'll probably be held to ransom until the end of the window.

A couple of very good additions is all we need. The defence has more than an enough cover, and so has the midfield 3.  It's up front where we're woefully short.  A proper striker and another decent attacking option and we'll be good.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on November 12, 2019, 03:05:31 PM
I think people hoping for 3 or 4 signing in January will be dissapointed.  My guess is we'll be looking at one or maybe two at most.  And even for those we'll probably be held to ransom until the end of the window.

A couple of very good additions is all we need. The defence has more than an enough cover, and so has the midfield 3.  It's up front where we're woefully short.  A proper striker and another decent attacking option and we'll be good.

yep i would agree with that
I actually think we are those two Ďvery goodí additions away from having a top half starting 11 (maybe eleven a top eight)
Obviously then as we go forward can strengthen the squad

on the subject of the thread title
I will get a bit worried if we lose to Newcastle
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Londonfranky on November 12, 2019, 03:13:19 PM
As an outsider looking at this I can understand the frustration, youíre lost to top teams after leading, youíve lost quite few games by the odd goal, what did really you expect at the start of the season? If look at the three teams below you, your goal difference is far better  thatís worth a point, I said the same thing at the start of the season, this is were John Terry earn his corn, what you need now between now and Christmas two or three scrappy 1-0 wins, at the moment your only a couple of wins away from the safety of mid table.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on November 12, 2019, 05:28:48 PM
Personally I have to say we are a season away form being a really great team.
Glimpses have been shown and keep these lot together every bloody last one of them will improve with our main man and  coach supreme Deano!
Additional moves are needed in window  however, hope they are more of the ready to come in to first team rather than a development type player.

I also have a strong belief as this squad have more time together and play games together the better they will become as players and as a team.

Finally I have so much faith in Smith that he will develop this team this season and Villa will show the progression and will be a good standing team come season end.
It takes some time to come together however it will come together and basically Villa will improve as season goes on.
That's what I think anyway.
So that's why I'm not worried (right now!)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on November 12, 2019, 06:11:35 PM
I admire your optimism. Personally I think we will struggle this season but survive and hopefully move on to more comfortable things next season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on November 12, 2019, 07:36:20 PM
I admire your optimism. Personally I think we will struggle this season but survive and hopefully move on to more comfortable things next season.

Seconded
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on November 12, 2019, 07:54:37 PM
i think we will survive but the old frustrations of the previous 4-5 years in the Premier League have really got to me again after three seasons of enjoyment in admittedly a lower quality division. The plethora of late goals against, the inability to beat the Sky teams, the patronising opposition fans, i haven't missed this at all. And to top it all off its bloody difficult getting a ticket this season. Having said that we have the best set up and management in years and the team is full of decent players who do seem to care (Sunday aside!).  I am sure in January Deano wont be hung out to dry and denied transfer funds like Garde was. In 2016 the white flag was being waved in January (if not earlier than that), this year our backers will do what it takes to strenghen the team. Beat Newcastle and things will look a whole lot better, i just think we need to be more positive in terms of playing two strikers up front because Wesley is extremely isolated in most of the games hes played. He hasnt impressed me bar one or two games but i would be interested to see how he got on with someone playing closer to him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on November 12, 2019, 11:21:46 PM
I think people hoping for 3 or 4 signing in January will be dissapointed.  My guess is we'll be looking at one or maybe two at most.  And even for those we'll probably be held to ransom until the end of the window.

A couple of very good additions is all we need. The defence has more than an enough cover, and so has the midfield 3.  It's up front where we're woefully short.  A proper striker and another decent attacking option and we'll be good.

Agree that a striker and another wide option are a must in January.  I would ideally like another central midfielder to go alongside Marvelous, as I think Douglas is struggling a bit to adapt at the moment and I don't think Hourihane and Lansbury are good enough if we want to push on in this league.  Attacking options are the priority though and I would forego strengthening other areas if it meant investing heavily in two players in those positions.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 13, 2019, 10:14:48 AM
Difficult to know how good Lansbury is. If we get a decent Centre Forward I will be happy, I think we have options every where else.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 13, 2019, 10:35:57 AM
I think Lansbury is a talented player, the problem is, to really settle and get the best out of him, he needs a run of games, which is never going to happen because after one or two matches, he'll trip over an inconveniently positioned blade of grass, do his hamstring and be out for six weeks.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on November 13, 2019, 10:54:05 AM
2 or 3 is really all we need. Many of our problems have, I think, stemmed from the squad still integrating and getting to know each other.  The last thing we need to do is start that process all over again.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on November 13, 2019, 11:46:47 AM
2 or 3 is really all we need. Many of our problems have, I think, stemmed from the squad still integrating and getting to know each other.  The last thing we need to do is start that process all over again.

I agree. I also think that as time goes on, those players who people think maybe aren't ready will keep playing and will be good enough. It takes a bit of time to build that knowledge and way of playing together.

I'd like another striker and an out-and-out pacy winger. Other than that we're ok for now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on November 13, 2019, 12:29:31 PM
If we have got 20 points after the Norwich game on Boxing Day and I think we will be ok
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 13, 2019, 12:36:57 PM
If we have got 20 points after the Norwich game on Boxing Day and I think we will be ok

That has to be the target. Wins v Newcastle, Southampton and Norwich would get us there.

Think we always used to be around that total in Lambert's three seasons and we only just stayed up in all three seasons. Anything less and it will be a major struggle as (on paper) we have a hard home run in the second half of the season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on November 13, 2019, 12:45:26 PM
If we have got 20 points after the Norwich game on Boxing Day and I think we will be ok

That has to be the target. Wins v Newcastle, Southampton and Norwich would get us there.

Think we always used to be around that total in Lambert's three seasons and we only just stayed up in all three seasons. Anything less and it will be a major struggle as (on paper) we have a hard home run in the second half of the season.

Where we play the same teams we did in the first half...  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 13, 2019, 12:59:05 PM
If we have got 20 points after the Norwich game on Boxing Day and I think we will be ok

That has to be the target. Wins v Newcastle, Southampton and Norwich would get us there.

Think we always used to be around that total in Lambert's three seasons and we only just stayed up in all three seasons. Anything less and it will be a major struggle as (on paper) we have a hard home run in the second half of the season.

Where we play the same teams we did in the first half...  ;)

Mainly teams stay up on their home form. If you get 25 points over a season at home then you only then to get 10 points away to stay up.

We have been o.k at home but still let some winnable games like Burnley and West Ham slip through our grasp.

After xmas we have to play Man. City, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man. United at VP. Beatable teams but they will still be playing for european places and we have terrible records v them bar Chelsea at Villa Park.

In an ideal fixture list I'd rather play all the top teams at home v xmas (given how poor Man. United and Spurs have been so far this season) and then you have all the relegation six pointers at home in the run in.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on November 13, 2019, 01:24:16 PM
If we bring a proven goalscorer in during January we will get over the line. As for being worried I think it is natural for anyone involved with a newly promoted club to be worried about being in a relegation battle. I think Norwich will struggle due to how many goals they concede and Sheffield United have done well so far but can they do it over a whole season? Add to that Southampton and Watford both seem to be having problems and Newcastle haven't totally convinced me despite doing well recently and I am hopeful of us keeping our heads out of the bottom six as the season goes on.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JUAN PABLO on November 13, 2019, 03:07:37 PM
get Jarred Bowen in January .. can play winger/upfront/support the striker . . scores and assists . .
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on November 13, 2019, 03:58:50 PM
get Jarred Bowen in January .. can play winger/upfront/support the striker . . scores and assists . .

I agree. I think Bowen will get snapped up by a PL team soon and would love it to be us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on November 13, 2019, 04:08:06 PM
Who?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Smithy on November 13, 2019, 04:19:52 PM
We're in a run of very tough games right now (we're three fixtures into a seven-game run where we play 7 of the current top 8 in the league), so I wouldn't expect us to get too many wins in the next four games.

BUT - our run over Xmas is actually quite kind, with our four games seeing us playing the current bottom three and Burnley again. The current tough run, is balanced by that easier Xmas. So I won't start to worry too much unless our position isn't improved after that Xmas run.  In the short run, I certainly don't expect us to be heading too far up the league in the next few weeks, but we should do enough to keep touch with lower mid-table.

Win against Newcastle and one of the others from Chelsea, Leicester, ManU or Sheff Utd, and things will start looking a lot better. Get nothing from those games, and we'd need 9 points over Xmas, definitely.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on November 13, 2019, 04:20:13 PM
At the moment, i think Southampton and Norwich are highly likely to finish below us and i think 1 or 2 from Watford, Newcastle and Brighton will as well so i'm going to predict us finishing 16th or 17th.
I'd be happy enough with that, as i think the nature of the club at the moment, manager, back room, squad, owners can only go one way and i think it would give us a foundation to build on. We should be back to being comfortably a top half side in 3-4 years all being well.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on November 13, 2019, 06:31:10 PM
2 or 3 is really all we need. Many of our problems have, I think, stemmed from the squad still integrating and getting to know each other.  The last thing we need to do is start that process all over again.

I agree. I also think that as time goes on, those players who people think maybe aren't ready will keep playing and will be good enough. It takes a bit of time to build that knowledge and way of playing together.

I'd like another striker and an out-and-out pacy winger. Other than that we're ok for now.

This was a point I tried to make in the summer, making loads of new signings is really exciting and lets fans get a bit carried away with thinking about how good we could be if everyone settles and performs to the level we want but it doesn't happen all that often. More likely you get a settling in period where you see good and bad from the players and you see some issues where players aren't quite used to playing together. It was my biggest problems with Bruce, he'd sign 6-7 players every summer and 3-4 every January and we'd be left looking like a new team after every window. The only time it didn't happen was when we signed Grabban and Tuanzebe and that led to us getting into the playoffs.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: algy on November 14, 2019, 12:37:50 PM
Not worried at all at the moment.

Think Southampton and Norwich look very weak defensively, at least one of them is going down and probably both.  I think Newcastle and Crystal Palace will both be in for a bit of a struggle too.  Honestly, I think if we pick up a few points before Christmas, we'll be well out of it come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CJ on November 14, 2019, 12:46:37 PM
I must admit I 'm starting to get worried.  We're nearly a third of the way through the season and averaging less than a point a game. Yes, we've been robbed by poor officiating, and if Jack had played against Liverpool I think we'd have hung on for at least a point. We couldn't clear our lines for the last 20 minutes when we were hitting the ball long and it was coming straight back. With Jack in the side we'd have had someone who could carry the ball and slow things down or make things happen. Against Wolves we were by and large simply shocking, and we are where we are, and we don't really know when Jack will be back.

I think Norwich and Southampton are in deep trouble, but I think Watford will pull away especially now that they've got Deeney fit again.  After Newcastle we've got a tough run of 4 games, and although we've got a relatively 'easy' run over Christmas, if a gap opens up it may be psychologically difficult to close that and we could be playing catch-up all season. Of course if we pick someone up in January who'd have the sort immediate impact Dion Dublin or Darren Bent had we'd be fine, but I don't know who that player might be. I have faith in the owners to make funds available to protect their investment, but I'm now officially worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 14, 2019, 01:35:33 PM
The problem is confidence

Win a couple like we did recently and we cannot wait for the next games, even though it was City and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' we all was up for the games. Lose 3 on the bounce , as we have done, and all of a sudden every game in the upcoming fixtures looks daunting.

Every team puts in a few below par games when it just seems we are not at the races - lets hope the break snaps us out of it and we can get some of the critical players not only fit but firing again

Not prepared to give up just yet or even get too worried
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on November 27, 2019, 05:53:31 PM
The bookies currently have Norwich as the relegation favourites with Watford and Southampton making up the bottom three. They have Newcastle, Villa and West Ham completing the bottom six. There is a it of a jump in the odds then to Brighton, Bournemouth and Palace. Everton come next. At the moment they rate Sheffield United and Burnley's chances of staying up more than Everton's.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on November 27, 2019, 06:43:41 PM
From hearing Everton supporters on the radio of late, there's plenty of concern amongst them. They can't see where a turnaround is going to come from. That was a bad result at the weekend, maybe there's something in those worries.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard on November 27, 2019, 06:57:56 PM
Not any more. Think we will lose a lot of games but win enough to stay up comfortably. Can't see us drawing many.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on November 27, 2019, 07:19:28 PM
Get past Christmas above the bottom 3, which we will, weíll be safe and sound mid table by March.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JJ-AV on November 27, 2019, 08:05:09 PM
1 point per game until we can get a forward in. If we get a goalscorer in January (or Wes becomes on) we will stay up comfortably (baring injuries). If not then we will be right in the mix.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on November 27, 2019, 08:43:33 PM
1 point per game until we can get a forward in. If we get a goalscorer in January (or Wes becomes on) we will stay up comfortably (baring injuries). If not then we will be right in the mix.

6th highest scorers in the league and you think more goals are needed?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on November 27, 2019, 08:47:33 PM
It would be nice.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brentastonb6 on November 27, 2019, 10:37:17 PM
1 point per game until we can get a forward in. If we get a goalscorer in January (or Wes becomes on) we will stay up comfortably (baring injuries). If not then we will be right in the mix.

6th highest scorers in the league and you think more goals are needed?

Agree with this sentiment, even watching Wesley Monday his hold up play and lay offs to others count. It was noticeable that the fans in the Holte were behind him when he missed/ had his effort saved for the potential third goal. I think keeping it tighter at the back will bring more reward as letís face it weíve dropped more points from leading positions than most if not all teams in this division. Thatís not me being critical of the defence either as I think we have several great combinations and plenty waiting in reserve it might just be that they are all finding their feet still as a relatively new squad ?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 27, 2019, 11:16:18 PM
From hearing Everton supporters on the radio of late, there's plenty of concern amongst them. They can't see where a turnaround is going to come from. That was a bad result at the weekend, maybe there's something in those worries.

Everton have a horrible fixture list coming up:

Leicester away
Liverpool away
Chelsea home
Man. United away
Arsenal home

They also play Man. City away on Jan 1st!

Probably why they haven't sacked Silva yet as they won't be getting a new manager bounce from those matches.

West Ham also have a tough run so I'd fancy us to be above both come the new year which you wouldn't have thought in August.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on November 27, 2019, 11:19:51 PM
A lot less worried after Monday result..
Still concerned about striker options, Smiths game management and our over reliance on Jack.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on November 27, 2019, 11:23:54 PM
From hearing Everton supporters on the radio of late, there's plenty of concern amongst them. They can't see where a turnaround is going to come from. That was a bad result at the weekend, maybe there's something in those worries.

Everton have a horrible fixture list coming up:

Leicester away
Liverpool away
Chelsea home
Man. United away
Arsenal home

They also play Man. City away on Jan 1st!

Probably why they haven't sacked Silva yet as they won't be getting a new manager bounce from those matches.

West Ham also have a tough run so I'd fancy us to be above both come the new year which you wouldn't have thought in August.

Arsenal doesn't count as a "horrible" game for anyone except us. Those bottling twats are determined to relegate us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on November 28, 2019, 12:01:29 AM
1 point per game until we can get a forward in. If we get a goalscorer in January (or Wes becomes on) we will stay up comfortably (baring injuries). If not then we will be right in the mix.

6th highest scorers in the league and you think more goals are needed?

A quality goal scorer would be nice, but most teams around the world are after one of them.  I would settle for someone who can chip in with goals, but more importantly can hold the ball up and bring others into play. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 05, 2019, 08:33:04 AM
I'm starting to worry a bit now - the points are beginning to look harder to pick up - giving Smith a contract extension at this stage of the season was a strange one - I'm finding it hard to comprehend that we are currently looking to play catch  up with the likes of Brighton, (should read Palace) Burnley and Bournemouth - I guess that demonstrates just how low we fell. Trying to find a decent available striker in January may prove difficult - Wesley  isn't exactly setting the place on fire is he? At the moment he looks a poor signing .......I was becoming confident of us staying up, now I'm having doubts - those doubts centre around Smith's apparent  inability to make timely substitutions or changes of set up to counter act the opposition and the lack of a prolific striker .....there is a long way to go and it may just go to the wire
Not sure my nerves will take it ..........still we've got the right manager in place for the Championship :(
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on December 05, 2019, 08:41:07 AM
Brighton are below us at the moment. They've lost their last four games and they'll have to beat Arsenal away by three or four goals tonight in order to go above us (I hope I've counted correctly; I know the bean-counters are watching).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Reuben on December 05, 2019, 08:46:46 AM
After these games (Man U - Chelsea - Leicester) I expected us to be in the bottom 3.  It seems unlikely that will happen now.  We are also beating the teams in or expected to be in the bottom 8.  We responded to three straight defeats by beating an in-form Newcastle.  I think there is enough there, along with hopefully some Jan reinforcements to mean we can finish 15-16th. 
I don't have the same vibe from the team that we had in the last couple of years in the Prem.  There is naivety but a willingness to improve and a togetherness which gives me hope. 
I may be worried if we are in the bottom 3 in mid January.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 05, 2019, 08:47:34 AM
Brighton are below us at the moment. They've lost their last four games and they'll have to beat Arsenal away by three or four goals tonight in order to go above us (I hope I've counted correctly; I know the bean-counters are watching).
I realised that as I posted - BE
I should have typed Palace :)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 05, 2019, 08:58:05 AM
Also Brighton only need a point to go above us
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 05, 2019, 09:06:52 AM
8 or 10 points from Sheff U, Saints, Norwich and Watford puts us on 23 or 25 after 20 games and well on course for survival.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 05, 2019, 09:29:01 AM
I think our destiny this season is going to hinge on what we do in the transfer window and, to a lesser extent, how quickly we do it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 05, 2019, 09:30:23 AM
Also Brighton only need a point to go above us

And we know what a bunch of bottling Villa-shafting ****** Arsenal are.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mallo on December 05, 2019, 09:43:41 AM
Get a striker in Jan and we'll be fine - as it has always been it's about how we do against the bottom clubs. We'll fluke (play brilliantly) against the odd top 10 team and win like they do. But Arsenal and Spurs are annoying the bejeesus out of me for being so c**p at pivotal times.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 10:21:49 AM
I said a couple of weeks ago that if Smith stays we will go down, so I was disappointed with the new contract. If we go down, Grealish will leave, and we saw last season that Smith was clueless without him before he came back against Derby. He wasnít willing to try anything different in that dreadful run last season, and he isnít willing to try anything different now, like last night when it was clear to everybody 4-3-3 wasnít working. The playing out from the back as well for example is fine, but it has cost us a few times and nearly cost us in the play off semi final second leg last season. People rightly blame Mings for Man Unitedís first goal on Sunday, but surely Smith should tell them to consider who they are playing and to judge the situation accordingly. You can probably get away with it against Milwall at home, but Man United away requires a different approach. Mings was still messing around on the edge of his own box last night so when people say Smith will learn, he evidently never does. He sets up the same regardless of who we are playing, and it just wonít, and doesnít work.

In my opinion he is a mid championship level manager and wouldnít get us back up if we go down. People will say he got us up last season, but that was much more to do with Grealish than Smith. I have had serious, serious doubts about Smith as a manager since January and promotion didnít change that
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on December 05, 2019, 10:28:46 AM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: danno on December 05, 2019, 10:30:26 AM
Southampton at home in a few weeks is looking a bigger game than it usually would be. Adams will probably break his goal drought then not score again all season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 10:38:17 AM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.

The problem is, because other teams around us are picking up points against the bigger teams, like Norwich and Newcastle against Man City for example, just winning our easier games isnít going to work. We are pretty much the only team not to pick up any points against the higher sides and we arenít going to win every game against those around us
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: sonyhill on December 05, 2019, 10:49:52 AM
The only thing that really concerns me is that whilst we are scoring goals from midfield, we don't have that 15 goal a season striker that the likes of Southampton have in Ings.  If we can pick up a decent striker and another other winger in January I think we'll be ok.  We're playing decent football but just lack some quality in the final third in some of the tougher games.  Need to cut out Mings' casual mistakes as well!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on December 05, 2019, 10:57:09 AM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.

The problem is, because other teams around us are picking up points against the bigger teams, like Norwich and Newcastle against Man City for example, just winning our easier games isnít going to work. We are pretty much the only team not to pick up any points against the higher sides and we arenít going to win every game against those around us

To be fair, the only times we have been outclassed this season are the second half last night and Man City away arguably. We probably came closer than any team this season in beating the champions elect.

Flip side of that is the plucky losers tag, like Mowbrays West Brom isn't a great one for a relegation battle. Sheff Utd for example seem far better set up to dig in and get points. Maybe we need some more pragmatic team selections at times like Hause at left back.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ketzster on December 05, 2019, 11:05:16 AM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.

The problem is, because other teams around us are picking up points against the bigger teams, like Norwich and Newcastle against Man City for example, just winning our easier games isnít going to work. We are pretty much the only team not to pick up any points against the higher sides and we arenít going to win every game against those around us

To be fair, the only times we have been outclassed this season are the second half last night and Man City away arguably. We probably came closer than any team this season in beating the champions elect.

Flip side of that is the plucky losers tag, like Mowbrays West Brom isn't a great one for a relegation battle. Sheff Utd for example seem far better set up to dig in and get points. Maybe we need some more pragmatic team selections at times like Hause at left back.

Wolves away was diabolical and we were totally outplayed by Brighton until Mooy got sent off. Smiths lack of tactical ability was also demonstrated during that game, at Arsenal away and West Ham at home where we played against ten men for long periods.

Everybody keeps saying ĎDean should try this, try thatí, but Smith never ever does. Last season after Wigan away we said he needed to, he didnít. We said after Reading away he needed to, he didnít. The only change he made last season was picking Grealish against Derby.

All of arguments that Smith will learn, needs time with the players etc would work if it wasnít for the fact that we have the evidence from the dreadful run last season where he didnít change anything. Even during the 10 game run there was some pretty ordinary football like Rotherham away in the first half. Eventually the fact that we had better players than the other teams around us meant that we would win a few games. Unfortunately, this time, because other teams have better players we donít have that luxury and we are reliant on Smithís tactical ability. And his tactical ability and in game management isnít good enough for this level. It barely was in the championship
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 05, 2019, 11:22:14 AM
20 points after the Norwich game on Boxing Day and we will be ok, if we donít get to 20, I will start to get concerned. Being 1 point of the relegation places is a worry though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on December 05, 2019, 11:29:21 AM
Also Brighton only need a point to go above us
That's it! I'm never commenting on points and tables again. Fucking useless!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 05, 2019, 11:32:54 AM
Also Brighton only need a point to go above us
That's it! I'm never commenting on points and tables again. Fucking useless!

Thick fucker!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on December 05, 2019, 11:46:12 AM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.

The problem is, because other teams around us are picking up points against the bigger teams, like Norwich and Newcastle against Man City for example, just winning our easier games isnít going to work. We are pretty much the only team not to pick up any points against the higher sides and we arenít going to win every game against those around us

Thatís fair, although I wouldnít completely rule out us picking up some points against them in the return home fixtures. Havenít looked, but it canít be many teams that have played them all away like we have. And while part of it can definitely be put down to our naivety, we have been quite unlucky in some of those games as well.

Also, the other teams seem to be losing or dropping points more regularly to other teams around them (hence being below or on similar points to us still despite these Ďbigí wins) whereas our more recent form against similar teams has been pretty good.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 05, 2019, 12:44:41 PM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.

The problem is, because other teams around us are picking up points against the bigger teams, like Norwich and Newcastle against Man City for example, just winning our easier games isnít going to work. We are pretty much the only team not to pick up any points against the higher sides and we arenít going to win every game against those around us

Thatís fair, although I wouldnít completely rule out us picking up some points against them in the return home fixtures. Havenít looked, but it canít be many teams that have played them all away like we have. And while part of it can definitely be put down to our naivety, we have been quite unlucky in some of those games as well.

Also, the other teams seem to be losing or dropping points more regularly to other teams around them (hence being below or on similar points to us still despite these Ďbigí wins) whereas our more recent form against similar teams has been pretty good.

How we do against the Champions League challengers is not going to define our season.  If we can pick up 30 points at home, we'll stay up - so far we've got 11 from 7 games which is pretty much bang on target.  With Southampton and Norwich two of our next three home games I'm expecting a minimum of 6 points which leaves us on 17 points from 10 games, putting us ahead of target.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: supertom on December 05, 2019, 01:23:01 PM
I think Jack is hitting form at a good time. Trezeguet is playing well. Mings is all about simple concentration and just being given a tougher time by the coaching staff. Someone needs to roast him for these silly errors, but he's a quality player. Cut the nonsense and he'll be top drawer. I'd give McGinn a rest against Sheff Utd too. He's just looking a bit jaded. We have to remember he is actually human. He's dropping below par at the minute. AEG has goals in him.

January is coming. 2-3 in (a striker is a must).

With how our midfield is coming along and the potential of hopefully another striking option (which in the end I think will actually benefit Wesley, rather than being a death knell), I think we'll finish quite strongly. We have to look at it too, because we've had a fucking horrible run of games recently too. City, Liverpool, Wolves (A), Utd, Chelsea. Newcastle was surprisingly comfortable, but thankfully that was a must win. Have we done worse than expected over that run? I'd have probably expected a point at Wolves and the atypical loss at Utd (so it's a switheroo on that) but that aside everything as is. I think Leicester will beat us. If we get a point we've done very well. They're ruthless. Sheff Utd is a big, big game. We need to take something from it.

It's the next three after that. Southampton, Norwich and Watford. We need to take 6 points minimum. Bare minimum from that. By the end of December if we've taken 7 points we'll be on 22 points and probably on course to be safe at 38-40 points at the end. Those latter 3 games also give us a chance to just kick em below us a bit and keep distance.  If we've got 9-10 points by the end of the month that'll be more comfortable and it's not out of the realms of possibility.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: rougegorge on December 05, 2019, 01:34:51 PM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.

The problem is, because other teams around us are picking up points against the bigger teams, like Norwich and Newcastle against Man City for example, just winning our easier games isnít going to work. We are pretty much the only team not to pick up any points against the higher sides and we arenít going to win every game against those around us

Thatís fair, although I wouldnít completely rule out us picking up some points against them in the return home fixtures. Havenít looked, but it canít be many teams that have played them all away like we have. And while part of it can definitely be put down to our naivety, we have been quite unlucky in some of those games as well.

Also, the other teams seem to be losing or dropping points more regularly to other teams around them (hence being below or on similar points to us still despite these Ďbigí wins) whereas our more recent form against similar teams has been pretty good.

How we do against the Champions League challengers is not going to define our season.  If we can pick up 30 points at home, we'll stay up - so far we've got 11 from 7 games which is pretty much bang on target.  With Southampton and Norwich two of our next three home games I'm expecting a minimum of 6 points which leaves us on 17 points from 10 games, putting us ahead of target.
I get this, but it does put more pressure on the games against the lower teams. We mustn't just write off matches against the top teams which unfortunately is what has happened far too regaularly in the past. E.g. from the BBC:
"Aston Villa have picked up just one point from their last 42 available in away games against sides starting the day in the top four".

Also the teams around us will be targeting points against us in just the same way.

If we hadn't just been promoted, then I think a lot of fans would be worried to be just a point above the relegation zone.

We have generally been competitive as Dean keeps saying, but we have thrown in some poor performances as well whether in games as a whole or for parts of matches: Palace, Arsenal - the last half an hour versus 10, Wolves, yesterday, and the inability to impose ourselves against the 10 men of West Ham and Brighton (apart from a last kick winner). 

I just hope they have a decent striker lined up for January; and at the start not a January 31st panic buy. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 05, 2019, 03:00:39 PM
We've taken 11 points from our last 10 games which is the ratio you need to pass the magic 40 points. And that 10 game run has included Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Wolves, Man Utd away plus Liverpool at home.

After Leicester we have a run of 9 games where the only 'top' side we play are Spurs, I reckon that's the run that will show if it should be time to worry, not during the run of fixtures we're in.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: usav on December 05, 2019, 03:05:15 PM
From another thread, this was my prediction which is still stand by:

Quote
Man U A - D
Chelsea A - L
Leicester H - D
Sheff Utd A - D
Soton H - W
Norwich H - W

9 points.  You heard it here first.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 05, 2019, 07:07:46 PM
Lots of comments on the site about Wesley but I am just as concerned at our defensive frailties - collective rather than individual.

Sheffield United - with a more settled team who have been together for a while - seem to be able to hunt down the opposition and limit space and chances. They also seem to have a mental toughness to come back and secure points against some of the better team like Chelsea, Spurs and Man U. For certain away games I would be much happier if we had played a tighter formation 4-5-1 and limited space. This would be easier if we had genuine pace as an outlet though.

I think we really need a signature win against a team well above us in the table to give the players more belief. A point at Manyoo was a step in the right direction but only our 4th away point. The real missed opportunity for me was Arsenal, where we were very good for an hour, albeit against 10 men for a chunk of that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 05, 2019, 08:07:02 PM
I'm starting to worry a bit now - the points are beginning to look harder to pick up - giving Smith a contract extension at this stage of the season was a strange one - I'm finding it hard to comprehend that we are currently looking to play catch  up with the likes of Brighton, (should read Palace) Burnley and Bournemouth - I guess that demonstrates just how low we fell. Trying to find a decent available striker in January may prove difficult - Wesley  isn't exactly setting the place on fire is he? At the moment he looks a poor signing .......I was becoming confident of us staying up, now I'm having doubts - those doubts centre around Smith's apparent  inability to make timely substitutions or changes of set up to counter act the opposition and the lack of a prolific striker .....there is a long way to go and it may just go to the wire
Not sure my nerves will take it ..........still we've got the right manager in place for the Championship :(

Cheer up clive.

We are the grand of no points behind Brighton (pending Arsenal gifting them points as CDBW says)1 point behind Bournemouth (and they have some of the fixtures we've had recently coming up) and 3 behind Burnley who have Spurs away on Saturday. Do your Everton friends take such offence at being behind all these apparent minnows?

The crucial part of the season was always going to be Southampton-Norwich-Watford- Burnley over 10 days at the end of the year. It's important we don't mess that part up as 7-9 points from those four games will massively change things. We could well be in the top half and looking up and looking forward to the January transfer window.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 05, 2019, 08:10:46 PM

Almost half of our fixtures so far have come against last seasons top seven, and all but one of them away from home. These fixtures have, somewhat understandable, made up the majority of our defeats.

It was disappointing that we gave up points in some Ďeasierí games at the start of the season, but I still think the team have shown enough improvement and quality since then that will we be fine.

The problem is, because other teams around us are picking up points against the bigger teams, like Norwich and Newcastle against Man City for example, just winning our easier games isnít going to work. We are pretty much the only team not to pick up any points against the higher sides and we arenít going to win every game against those around us

It's worked so far, we're above the bottom 3. With our very decent GD we're pretty much got 40% of the points we need already to stay from a pretty tough first 15 games on the fixture list.

Things will get easier on paper from this point on. I know the home games will get tougher but given how we've played in some of the away games I reckon we can get 2 wins and the odd draw when Arsenal, Man. United, Chelsea and Spurs all come to VP after xmas.

Of course a Grealish injury would be a major issue but we have January transfer window to do something about that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 05, 2019, 08:34:19 PM
Also Brighton only need a point to go above us
That's it! I'm never commenting on points and tables again. Fucking useless!

Thick fucker!

Heís probably spent all day in bed, smoking Gauloises, reading Sartre and drinking cheap Pinot Noir while heís on strike the lazy French bastard.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 05, 2019, 09:05:35 PM
Also Brighton only need a point to go above us
That's it! I'm never commenting on points and tables again. Fucking useless!

Thick fucker!

Heís probably spent all day in bed, smoking Gauloises, reading Sartre and drinking cheap Pinot Noir while heís on strike the lazy French bastard.
Tres bien JC :)
Made me smile

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Flin5tone on December 05, 2019, 10:00:08 PM
A little bit worried.

Results tonight not been kind to us!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard on December 05, 2019, 10:08:16 PM
Ask me after the Burnley game on NY Day !
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 05, 2019, 10:09:39 PM
Also Brighton only need a point to go above us

And we know what a bunch of bottling Villa-shafting c***s Arsenal are.

Why didn't I have money on this? FFS.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 05, 2019, 10:16:48 PM
Weird league. If everyone below the top 3-4 is much is a muchness, which seems to be the case, presumably that translates into a very high points total to avoid relegation?

Can someone other than BE (wink) explain this to me?!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on December 05, 2019, 10:16:50 PM
hope those three points we threw away at Arsenal arent going to come back and bite us.

Great win for Brighton, they seemed a lot more compact than we do away from home.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 05, 2019, 10:17:02 PM
It would be lovely if results from teams around us went our way for a bloody change.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 05, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
Mind you, Brighton are a good team and shouldnít be where they are. They were really impressive against us and we never would have beaten them without the red card.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on December 05, 2019, 10:19:19 PM
A lot of pressure now on the Leicester match
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Flin5tone on December 05, 2019, 10:25:36 PM
Does anyone else find we're a little slow compared to other teams, we need to up the pace and pile the pressure on,we do it here and there for very short spells but most of the time it's back to the wall . The only team that have seemed as bad for it were Newcastle against us but Bruce seems to have found a way to pick up points against the big/decent teams

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 05, 2019, 11:10:12 PM
It would be lovely if results from teams around us went our way for a bloody change.

You mean like last night when Watford, Norwich, West Ham, and Everton all lost?!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 05, 2019, 11:14:32 PM
Norwich lost to Southampton so you can't really count that as a result in our favour (or against us, for that matter).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 06, 2019, 07:44:29 AM
Does anyone else find we're a little slow compared to other teams, we need to up the pace and pile the pressure on,we do it here and there for very short spells but most of the time it's back to the wall . The only team that have seemed as bad for it were Newcastle against us but Bruce seems to have found a way to pick up points against the big/decent teams
There are often times when we begin to attack and then someone plays a negative pass when attacking options are available and we start going backwards.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 06, 2019, 08:13:37 AM
Norwich lost to Southampton so you can't really count that as a result in our favour (or against us, for that matter).

I'd say any night where 4 of the bottom 5 (excluding us) lose is a very good night for us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on December 06, 2019, 09:06:15 AM
The worry this year is that there aren't really any obvious fall guys.

Watford are struggling, but they've got decent quality and could turn it around.  Everton are surely too strong.  Pretty much everyone else is picking up results.

We're playing some pretty good football and look too strong to go down, but we're still getting dragged into it.  I think it will be a high points total cut off this season and we'll be in the mix.  I thought 15-19th at the start and still feel that's about right.  The Jan window will be vital.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on December 06, 2019, 09:10:50 AM
Agree with the minimum points tally.  Cannot see it being 36-38 as in previous years.  West Ham went down with 42 once didnít they.  Could be similar to that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on December 06, 2019, 09:47:22 AM
A little bit now, but we've got some very winnable games coming up. Kind of.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: lukey27 on December 06, 2019, 10:14:12 AM
I think anything over 20 points at the halfway mark [after the Norwich game] would mean we're slightly ahead of the curve.

We have played most of last years top 7 away from home already, I think we've only not played Liverpool away. So there are plenty of opportunities to go and pick points up away from home in the second half of the season and we've already shown at home we're extremely competitive.

The other results are white noise as far as I'm concerned at this stage, if we get 42 points there will be three teams below us at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 06, 2019, 11:17:50 AM
Watford and Norwich look nailed on to go down. Watford would have to win the next 4 in a row to get to more than a point a game and they've only won 1 all season.

Similarly, Norwich would need to win 3 out of 4 to be above a point a game at the half way point. For a team averaging more than 2 goals conceded every match I just don't see it happening.

So for me that's 2 of the 3 spots wrapped up. You've then got 5 points separating Everton in 18th from Sheff Utd in 9th. Any of that lot (Arsenal excluded) could go down and we're right in the middle of it.

It obviously won't be easy but with the run of games we've got coming up we should be picking up plenty of points. If we don't, we deserve to go down.

Ultimately though, we just need to be better than just one of Newcastle, Southampton, West Ham, etc, etc, all of whom look dreadful.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: algy on December 06, 2019, 01:01:07 PM
I usually just watch the goal difference until the mid-point of the season, ultimately points decide it but early in the season a few freak results - or an easy/hard run of games - can massively skew the table.

On that basis, I don't think we're in any realistic danger.  We score goals at rate you'd expect from a top-half team, and are more like bottom-half for goals conceded but not awful.  I'm saying we're basically a mid-table team who's had a hard run of fixtures.  Not bad for a newly promoted team who've mostly been playing together for less than 6 months.

Absolutely no worries about Villa, Smith, or anything else.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hipkiss92 on December 06, 2019, 01:06:21 PM
Our form against the bottom 10 reads P7 W4 D2 L1. Over a 38 game season would give us 76 points.

As someone else has said, we've played all bar Liverpool of last seasons top 7 away from home, and were unfortunate not to take more points from those.

A good couple of additions in Jan and more games to conti ue gelling the squad together, we'll be fine come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 06, 2019, 02:28:38 PM
Nigel Pearson is expected to be the new manager of Watford. Thatís one relegation spot locked in. Need to avoid the other two.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 06, 2019, 03:06:50 PM
Not sure we can say it's a guaranteed relegation when he's never been relegated and escaped relegation in hugely unlikely circumstances last time he was in this league.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 06, 2019, 04:00:45 PM
Given he was dumped earlier this season from a Belgian First Division B side Iíll take my chances on them going down or him not lasting long enough to see it happen.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 06, 2019, 04:16:07 PM
Mental club appoints mental manager, what could possibly go wrong.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on December 06, 2019, 06:14:46 PM
Pearson really has had an impressively weird career hasn't he?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 06, 2019, 06:36:53 PM
Given he was dumped earlier this season from a Belgian First Division B side Iíll take my chances on them going down or him not lasting long enough to see it happen.

Well, it's entirely possible. But far from a guarantee. Especially given that even that useless bellend Newcastle manager has been getting decent results! 😥
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 06, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
The worry this year is that there aren't really any obvious fall guys.


If we were Watford fans we'd be feeling doomed right now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 06, 2019, 07:28:22 PM
Iím probably a little irrationally fucked off right now at some of our results this season. But on the whole weíve competed well against the top sides even if we have blown the games. What gives me hope is that against the sides around which is really the league we are in weíve done quite well. Thatís what will matter in the end this season. Watford for me look fucked. Then after that it will be crap shoot for those last two spots. I still think it will be Norwich, and then any one of about 6 teams. And yes it includes us. We need a good January window. Pay what is needed and/or loan for whoever is needed for us to stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 06, 2019, 08:07:54 PM
Not sure we can say it's a guaranteed relegation when he's never been relegated and escaped relegation in hugely unlikely circumstances last time he was in this league.

I think it's a really poor appointment for Watford. They've basically picked the short term British fix option and gone for arguably the worst one.

Nigel Pearson last managed in the prem in May 2015. Since then he lasted two months at Derby and did a poor job in Belgium second division.

Watford's next 3 games are Palace and Man. United at home and Liverpool away so they could easily be 10 + points off 17th by the time they play us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 06, 2019, 08:30:40 PM
I think we should probably have learned my now not to look ahead at fixtures and start deciding clubs won't be getting any points in them. Other than Liverpool, they're all a bunch of bottling bastards working a conspiracy to relegate Villa.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 06, 2019, 10:50:37 PM
Iím probably a little irrationally fucked off right now at some of our results this season. But on the whole weíve competed well against the top sides even if we have blown the games. What gives me hope is that against the sides around which is really the league we are in weíve done quite well. Thatís what will matter in the end this season. Watford for me look fucked. Then after that it will be crap shoot for those last two spots. I still think it will be Norwich, and then any one of about 6 teams. And yes it includes us. We need a good January window. Pay what is needed and/or loan for whoever is needed for us to stay up.

Agree with that TV.  It feels like it's been a fairly decent season so far, but we've been in the lower reaches of the league for the majority of it.  The games against Southampton, Norwich and Watford are going to be very big - get 7-9 points out of those three and we should be able to climb the table a bit. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Flin5tone on December 07, 2019, 02:30:10 PM
4th from bottom

What a result or everton
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 07, 2019, 03:00:36 PM
4th from bottom

What a result or everton

And tomorrow we could be above them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: clash city rocker on December 07, 2019, 03:10:45 PM
4th from bottom

What a result or everton

And tomorrow we could be above them.

You can only  control what YOU can control.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 07, 2019, 03:18:44 PM
I think the reality is that this year you could make an argument for saying every team is too good to go down. We need another striker, we need to get much better at holding onto winning positions and we need grealish to stay fit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sdwbvf on December 07, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
I think the reality is that this year you could make an argument for saying every team is too good to go down. We need another striker, we need to get much better at holding onto winning positions and we need grealish to stay fit.

Or of course everyone deserves to!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 07, 2019, 03:30:21 PM
Yep. Thereís usually 1-2 teams who look out of their depth stinking up the league, like we did when we went down. Thereís nobody like that this year. Even Watford have looked decent, although hopefully the new manager will change that.

Above them, Southampton and Everton have good players, too good to be in serious danger youíd think, Bruce ball is working for Newcastle, annoyingly, and if Norwich can keep pukki scoring they could get a run together. We see going to have to be good to stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2019, 03:55:49 PM
I love Dean Smith but I hope he's not serious about not needing a striker.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 07, 2019, 04:03:09 PM
Itís make or break for me in terms of My views on owners/smith/survival prospects. Iíd be extremely surprised and disappointed if we didnít pull the stops out to add a decent option up front.

If we donít, it will be criminally negligent and a complete waste of an opportunity to consolidate our place in this league.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: clash city rocker on December 07, 2019, 04:07:51 PM
I love Dean Smith but I hope he's not serious about not needing a striker.

He isnt going to announce to the world we need a striker that's the worst thing he could do on two counts. One would totally demoralise Wesley and two any enquiries we made would push the price up massively.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2019, 04:14:51 PM
I love Dean Smith but I hope he's not serious about not needing a striker.

He isnt going to announce to the world we need a striker that's the worst thing he could do on two counts. One would totally demoralise Wesley and two any enquiries we made would push the price up massively.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 07, 2019, 04:15:39 PM
I hope you're right. Not getting an extra striker in July was foolish. Not adding one in January would be insane.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 07, 2019, 04:18:07 PM
Yeah Iíd add to the above that I also agree that weíre not going to be that daft and Smith is being tactical in his use of language, which I get.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 07, 2019, 04:19:05 PM
Frustrating we have yet to play Watford and Southampton this season. We must be the only team in the league who haven't played either of them?

Not saying we're just going to beat them but many teams have inflated their points tallies by beating them and we've yet to have that chance. Given how ridiculously tight the league is I'd say that's been a big difference.

Everton deserved their win today but worth noting 6 of their 17 points came with wins at home to Watford and at Southampton.

As frustrating as it is to be slowly drifting into the bottom 3 again there are reasons and I'd prefer to wait until we have played every single team in the league and then make proper judgement.

Generally we've been good v bottom half teams so I'm confident we can get 7 points from the xmas games which will change things.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 07, 2019, 04:24:41 PM
Yah good point. The problem is by playing them later the games become must wins which isnít ideal.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 07, 2019, 04:32:01 PM
Yah good point. The problem is by playing them later the games become must wins which isnít ideal.

We play Watford twice by end of January. Odd quirk of the fixture list but we won't be playing them in last ten games when it will become six pointer shoot out.

Ultimately need to be taking 4 points off them as that will be another two games they don't win.

Personally think Watford and Norwich are the two certs to go down. No idea at all on who the third will be as when one settles on 18th they suddenly start winning games again.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 07, 2019, 04:35:52 PM
Not based on todays scores so far no. Bournemouth losing heavily at home to Liverpool, Spurs thrashing Burnley and Watford and Palace drawing 0-0.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 07, 2019, 05:00:22 PM
Burnley's GD taken a hammering over last four days.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: clash city rocker on December 07, 2019, 05:23:25 PM
Yeah Iíd add to the above that I also agree that weíre not going to be that daft and Smith is being tactical in his use of language, which I get.

We are probably scouring the world for a good striker at a decent price. But so many other clubs will be doing the same.  Finding a prolific striker at a reasonable price is like finding someone at the sty that has more than two brain cells.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 07, 2019, 06:12:36 PM
One thing to consider is the fact weíve played all the top Sky clubs away so far bar Liverpool.
That said weíve taken just the 1 point from 18 on offer.

Has any other team in the bottom half played all the big 6 with 5 of them away?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 07, 2019, 06:18:22 PM
But does this mean weíre going to have a second half of the season with lots of Ďlesserí teams away, where they will be harder to beat, while playing teams at home who will beat us anyway? Thatís my optimistic take anyway.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 07, 2019, 06:22:43 PM
But does this mean weíre going to have a second half of the season with lots of Ďlesserí teams away, where they will be harder to beat, while playing teams at home who will beat us anyway? Thatís my optimistic take anyway.

There is no way we should be writing off home games v Man. United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs after January. After the nightmare opening 10 minutes v Bournemouth we've actually been decent at home I think.

When you push Liverpool for 94 minutes and nearly get at least a draw from that you shouldn't be just writing off other home games as a few of those teams above struggle to win away from home for a reason.

To me our only proper winnable away game so far was Norwich and we won that 5-1 so think we can get draws when wins when we play some of the bottom half.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2019, 06:25:17 PM
We should've won at Arsenal.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 07, 2019, 06:29:46 PM
We should've won at Arsenal.

You'd never have thought it in August but that was our worst result of the season, even before you look at the circumstances of the game.

In the three months since Arsenal have only won one league game and failed to win at home v Palace, Wolves, Brighton and Southampton.

I'm sure cdbully will give a better evaluation of their strengths and weaknesses than I can though.....
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2019, 06:32:41 PM
We should've won at Arsenal.

You'd never have thought it in August but that was our worst result of the season, even before you look at the circumstances of the game.

In the three months since Arsenal have only won one league game and failed to win at home v Palace, Wolves, Brighton and Southampton.

I'm sure cdbully will give a better evaluation of their strengths and weaknesses than I can though.....

We battered them for an hour and then caved to their reputation.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: dave.woodhall on December 07, 2019, 06:34:48 PM
I wonder if we helped the rest by showing how to play against them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 07, 2019, 06:37:39 PM
I think the players just didn't believe in themselves. My main worry is that a lot of them see themselves as Championship/newly promoted players rather than Aston fucking Villa players.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 07, 2019, 06:39:24 PM
Although Watford were unlucky not to beat them before our game as well, and they exposed a lot of the shortcomings.

I think the point about reputations is right. If we had that exact game against them now I reckon weíd feel like we had more of a right to finish them off.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 07, 2019, 07:53:20 PM
I've been worried all season unfortunately. I worry that once we drop into the bottom three again, we'll lose so much confidence and will need another Deano special run.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: colin69 on December 07, 2019, 08:07:30 PM
I think we will be fine but we do need another striker.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: postal on December 07, 2019, 09:32:22 PM
 a couple of weeks ago had a bit more hope, but very worried now
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: DB on December 07, 2019, 11:45:36 PM
Norwich, Watford and Bournemouth really better than us? Not to mention Soton
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 08, 2019, 12:04:28 AM
This thread needs a touch of the Ron Saunders spirit, ďdo you want to bet against usĒ.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: gpbarr on December 08, 2019, 12:49:15 AM
This thread needs a touch of the Ron Saunders spirit, ďdo you want to bet against usĒ.

Exactly right. We will be fine
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on December 08, 2019, 06:46:53 AM
Those that are worried will be relieved when we beat Leicester.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: wince on December 08, 2019, 09:32:57 AM
Itís how inconsistent we are results wise. We need to win scrappy as good performances and no points is not helpful. It reminds me at times of lambert era when we scored first then inevitably got battered in the dying minutes.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 08, 2019, 10:57:22 AM
Those that are worried will be relieved when we beat Leicester.
Robbo my dear antipodean friend I truly hope you're right.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: clash city rocker on December 08, 2019, 12:17:20 PM
You have to hope we will be ok as without hope what else do you have.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 08, 2019, 12:42:03 PM
Expectation? We'll be fine.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 08, 2019, 12:51:15 PM
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/78693588_3266622580031944_1827552844085985280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ohc=WCQMZwtExXQAQkzpn8IPZN0xkfUJO2JmOh5CaXhf1MFnfasCA4Xi9R7Aw&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=f562d7b1ec53688d1fdd57dc775cca6e&oe=5E76D30C)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on December 08, 2019, 02:32:19 PM
Down with the Watford Iím afraid.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 03:13:04 PM
It's going to be a very high total this season to stay up.

Just looking at the table. West Ham on 16 but I can see them beating Arsenal with the state they're in. Bournemouth on 16 but think they'll go on a run when they get their injured players up.

Everything else will be on 18 or 19 points if Southampton hold on and we're not even at halfway stage. 35-36 points won't be enough even with our GD.

We need 7 more wins.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Smithy on December 08, 2019, 03:20:39 PM
It's not great right now, but I won't be too worried until we see where we are before play Man City on 12th Jan.  After the run we're coming to end of, against pretty much every team vying for Champions League places, we've now got Sheff Utd, Southampton, Norwich, Watford and Burnley. Nine points from that lot and things will look a lot healthier.  If we're still on less than 20 points, we're in trouble.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 08, 2019, 03:23:13 PM
We're definitely not making things easy for ourselves.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2019, 03:26:58 PM
Next 12 fixtures and these are the ones that will either see us safe or relegated imo.

A) Sheff Utd
H) Saints
H) Norwich
A) Watford
A) Burnley
H) Man City
A) Brighton
H) Watford
A) Bournemouth
H) Spurs
A) Saints
H) Sheff Utd
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on December 08, 2019, 03:38:54 PM
Next 12 fixtures and these are the ones that will either see us safe or relegated imo.

A) Sheff Utd
H) Saints
H) Norwich
A) Watford
A) Burnley
H) Man City
A) Brighton
H) Watford
A) Bournemouth
H) Spurs
A) Saints
H) Sheff Utd

Wow. Shit or bust with those games
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 03:43:58 PM
Just over two months ago Newcastle went to Leicester and lost 5-0.

For all the stick we all give Bruce Newcastle response since that game has been excellent. Just two losses to us and Chelsea away.

Today is first time we've been battered at this level since promotion. Even in Man. City game it was 0-0 at half time so we were in it more than today.

We need to grow a pair and go out and battle for a point at Sheffield no matter how we play or who isn't injured and take things from there rather than just feeling sorry for ourselves or start worrying the fans will turn.

Buying or loaning a striker in January might help aswell.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on December 08, 2019, 03:45:36 PM
Beyond worried now.

Management is naive and the players are knackered and largely mediocre.

Big changes required.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 08, 2019, 04:08:36 PM
At the start of the season I said I'd be over the moon with 17th and that hasn't changed.  We've spent a lot of money on a lot of players who aren't contributing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 08, 2019, 04:10:09 PM
Maybe I am clutching at straws but of the bottom eight teams we have the best goal difference.

Burnley -8
Everton -9
Bourmemouth -6
West Ham -8
Villa -5
Southampton -17
Norwich -17
Watford -21
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 08, 2019, 04:11:22 PM
Yep if we play like we have the last two games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2019, 04:13:44 PM
After 16 games we're 1 win short of being on the points average we need to stay up. Beat Saints and Norwich at home and at the halfway mark we're back on target for 42 points.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: garyshawsknee on December 08, 2019, 04:17:29 PM
I'm not worried as of yet as it's quite a poor league down at our end, if we struggle to beat the likes of Watford, Southampton, Norwich ( again ) then ill start shitting my pants.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: supertom on December 08, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
The next five will probably give us an indication of where we're heading. We've got to be picking up 9 points absolute minimum and making up the ground we've lost in what has been a torrid fixture run. I'm thankful we caught Newcastle on a bad day because that should have been a tougher game than it was. I don't think we've done any worse than we should have expected between the Man City game and now.

Okay it never particularly applies to Villa because we're so good at shooting ourselves in the foot but, the second half of the season looks a little easier than the first half. Then depending on what we do in January as far as signings, I'd expect us to finish solidly.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 08, 2019, 04:51:15 PM
Today needs to be the kick in the balls Dean Smith needed. If we come out with the same bollocks next week, same system, same fucking inability to adapt he's going to be fucked The next string of games won't relegate us but if we fuck it up Dean Smith will be fired in my opinion.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 08, 2019, 04:53:15 PM
He won't.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LukeJames on December 08, 2019, 04:57:01 PM
Im still not worried in the slightest.

But I am an idiot.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 08, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
Sorry but without a big spend up in January, this team is going down

Just not enough quality in it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: curiousorange on December 08, 2019, 05:05:19 PM
Annoyingly, it feels like every other hopeless team in the bottom half have managed to pull a wonder result out of their arse. Okay, you'd rather beat your Burnleys and Norwichs, but an unexpected three points today would have taken so much pressure off the run to come.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 08, 2019, 06:45:51 PM
The loss today was not a surprise but the apparent lack of desire and fight is worrying ..... Sheffield won't be easy if we fail to match their competitiveness and team spirit
Starting to get twitchy right now
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 08, 2019, 06:52:47 PM
How many good performances resulting in actual wins this season? Just Everton and Norwich for me.

We seem to have saved our best performances for our valiant defeats and games like Brighton donít give me that much hope we can rack up enough wins in those crucial bottom half team at home fixtures. Really hope Iím wrong.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard E on December 08, 2019, 06:56:05 PM
How many good performances resulting in actual wins this season? Just Everton and Norwich for me.

We seem to have saved our best performances for our valiant defeats and games like Brighton donít give me that much hope we can rack up enough wins in those crucial bottom half team at home fixtures. Really hope Iím wrong.

Newcastle.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on December 08, 2019, 06:57:30 PM
Everyone around us seems happy we'll get a good result at Sheffield and then beat the next three.

I wish I shared their confidence. That team looked devoid of ideas and belief today. There's a lot of work to do.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AV82EC on December 08, 2019, 06:59:54 PM
Everyone around us seems happy we'll get a good result at Sheffield and then beat the next three.

I wish I shared their confidence. That team looked devoid of ideas and belief today. There's a lot of work to do.

Those of us who rocked up at Sheffield for the 4-1 drubbing last season will be under no illusion as to the task ahead.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 08, 2019, 07:00:19 PM
How many good performances resulting in actual wins this season? Just Everton and Norwich for me.

We seem to have saved our best performances for our valiant defeats and games like Brighton donít give me that much hope we can rack up enough wins in those crucial bottom half team at home fixtures. Really hope Iím wrong.

Newcastle.

I think that was more about them being shite and a bit of magic from hourihane on dead balls than our overall game.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 08, 2019, 07:01:25 PM
Sorry but without a big spend up in January, this team is going down

Just not enough quality in it.



Stick a decent goal scoring striker in our team and it will make a big difference.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 08, 2019, 07:09:13 PM
There are other areas to improve but yes I agree a good striker would change everything. It must be so depressing playing alongside wes. I think a lot of the frustration and fatigue we are seeing now is a result of midfielders having had to score all the goals and defenders having to fill in gaps behind them for the last 7 games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 08, 2019, 07:21:27 PM
Sorry but without a big spend up in January, this team is going down

Just not enough quality in it.



Stick a decent goal scoring striker in our team and it will make a big difference.
Yes this is an absolute must, the squad need a boost.
I am worried about the next 4 games as we are beginning to become undone.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: rougegorge on December 08, 2019, 07:24:07 PM
Improving the attack is essential.

However, after conceding 23 attempts today, that takes the total attempts against us to over 300 (!) this season which is a staggering and dreadful statistic in itself and is by some distance the most in the Prem.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 08, 2019, 07:26:20 PM
I said initially at start of season that Villa would stay up and be competitive to achieve 36 points. I did the stats and that's the points tally. Which will see us safe

A breakdown and successful example * is
9 wins 9 draws

*Brighton achieved to stay up last season. 36pts.

Villa currently :4 wins and 3 draws.

Villa  need 5 more wins
Look at the winnable potential fixtures from 11 remaining at home

Southampton h
Norwich h
Watford h
Palace h
Sheff utd h
Wolves h

And Villa need 6 draws -we take some away points from rivals (and maybe even wins )
Away at
Southampton ,
Watford,
Brighton ,
Bournemouth.
West Ham

The other matches to play
Sheff utd away
Man City home
Spurs home
Chelsea home
Newcastle away
Wolves home
Liverpool away
Man utd home
Everton away
Arsenal home

Villa could only get 3 more wins but get 12 more draws we stay up.**
**Southampton in 17/18 36pts
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: danno on December 08, 2019, 07:27:53 PM
There are other areas to improve but yes I agree a good striker would change everything. It must be so depressing playing alongside wes. I think a lot of the frustration and fatigue we are seeing now is a result of midfielders having had to score all the goals and defenders having to fill in gaps behind them for the last 7 games.

At one point in the second half, he was completely free in the penalty area and Trezegeut opted to shoot rather than cut it back to him. Not sure if it was greed or just a lack of faith in him from Trez.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: rougegorge on December 08, 2019, 07:34:32 PM
The number of shots we concede doesn't speak volumes for the defence, but it also doesn't say a lot for what Luiz and Nakamba are supposed to be doing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 08, 2019, 08:19:39 PM
Until our next win, Iím worried
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 08, 2019, 08:25:06 PM
Luiz looked atrocious today. Sloppy passing, not even that hard to get off the ball and worryingly slow. There were a few occasions where him and targett were the closest players to a Leicester attacker and their inability/unwillingness to get after them was shocking.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: django on December 08, 2019, 08:45:29 PM
I feel like weíve looked worse since weíve tried to fit Luiz into the side.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 08, 2019, 08:47:37 PM
Luiz, Hourihane, McGinn all nowhere near the mark today. Luiz is baffling me.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 08:48:36 PM
I feel like weíve looked worse since weíve tried to fit Luiz into the side.

I thought he was excellent personally v Newcastle and did well in early games this season.

Most of our team are young players playing in premier league for first time so ups and downs in form are inevitable. Konsa is another one, did o.k v Newcastle and Wolves but struggled since.

Tom Heaton is showing that sometimes buying proven and premier league experience players isn't always the wrong move. Kept the score down in a few defeats and we'll need him to keep this form in next few weeks.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 08, 2019, 08:50:21 PM
Luiz, Hourihane, McGinn all nowhere near the mark today. Luiz is baffling me.

Erm.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: adrenachrome on December 08, 2019, 09:01:48 PM
Luiz, Hourihane, McGinn all nowhere near the mark today. Luiz is baffling me.

Erm.

In fairness, Connor was fairly close to Marc on the bench until the latter came on late doors.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 08, 2019, 09:02:51 PM
In fairness, Hourihane contributed more than Wesley today.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 08, 2019, 09:22:54 PM
Err yeah, that's what I meant. Yeah.  8)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: adrenachrome on December 08, 2019, 09:40:40 PM
We might well stay up, but I am fairly sure we will be in the relegation mix at the death.

We can't play 4-3-3 against the top teams. We are now labeled easy meat in their books. You hate to see it.

The upcoming fixtures against less powerful opponents are now crucial.


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 08, 2019, 09:44:33 PM
We will and we will be.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Holte L2 on December 08, 2019, 09:47:26 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 08, 2019, 09:58:45 PM
Sorry but without a big spend up in January, this team is going down

Just not enough quality in it.



Stick a decent goal scoring striker in our team and it will make a big difference.

Did you see Smith's post match interview?

Words to the effect of "people keep telling me we're need a striker but we conceded 23 chances today at home. That's a bigger concern for me".

I get that he's not going to tell the whole world we're desperate for a striker (if it needs saying) but he seems very, very insistent that he's not in the market for one...
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AV82EC on December 08, 2019, 10:08:42 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.

This.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 08, 2019, 10:18:56 PM
Sorry but without a big spend up in January, this team is going down

Just not enough quality in it.



Stick a decent goal scoring striker in our team and it will make a big difference.

Did you see Smith's pussy match interview?

Words to the effect of "people keep telling me we're need a striker but we conceded 23 chances today at home. That's a bigger concern for me".

I get that he's not going to tell the whole world we're desperate for a striker (if it needs saying) but he seems very, very insistent that he's not in the market for one...

Or Deans been told by sporting director we have a record signing stick with him .
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nastylee on December 08, 2019, 10:31:04 PM
Or he's not going to destroy an already low on confidence striker by announcing to the press that we're looking to buy another one as Wesley has been crap.

I'd find it hard to imagine that the owners would spend 140m then watch us sleep walk into relegation. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 11:12:58 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.

This.

Really? 4-3-3 with Grealish in one of the front 3 positions actually had us on a nice little run before we hit the Man. City-Liverpool double trouble games.

I prefer it to early in the season when we had two out and out wingers and Grealish in the middle three and we looked very unbalanced at both ends.

My worry is in terms of major changes DS will go back to this and Sheffield United will expose the gaps between defence and midfield quite easily.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Or he's not going to destroy an already low on confidence striker by announcing to the press that we're looking to buy another one as Wesley has been crap.

I'd find it hard to imagine that the owners would spend 140m then watch us sleep walk into relegation. 

We need another one regardless. Given Kodj can't get any minutes off the bench in games we're losing it's safe to say he'll be off in January. Davis out with another injury. We must be only premier league club for years who've effectively played half the season with one out and out striker.

Given he's not very good it's a minor miracle we've scored so many goals this season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 08, 2019, 11:21:22 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.

This.

Thought their system worked so well today because their full-backs were excellent and got forward at every opportunity.  Can't see ours providing the kind of outlet to make that system work well.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard on December 08, 2019, 11:23:01 PM
5 defeats out of 7 but let's be realistic six of those games were against the current top 6. Too soon to panic.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LukeJames on December 08, 2019, 11:23:23 PM
There full backs were excellent, especially Pereira. They knew exactly when to go and when to stay. I like both Guilbert and Targett but they dont have the same disciplined approach.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 08, 2019, 11:28:13 PM
Gulibert is good imo and can improve further. Good cross on him, knows when to get forward and got good pace to get back from upfield. Plenty to work with.

Targett on the other hand is alright in final third but he's another in the long line of left backs who isn't very good when one on one v a winger and isn't quick at all. He reminds me of Warnock a bit. Also seems to pick up a few injuries.

There is a reason why he couldn't get a regular game at a very poor Southammpton team last few years.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LukeJames on December 08, 2019, 11:32:54 PM
Targett is a strange one, he lacks pace and is not great defensively but what he does have is a good understanding with Grealish on when to over lap and a very good delivery, he should of easily had 3 assists in the last 3 games if El-Ghazi had finished the sitters. The problem is when we dont finish them we are massively vunerable on the counter because he does not have Guilberts stamina to get up and down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Flin5tone on December 08, 2019, 11:36:44 PM
Just watching MOTD such a positve, fast, energetic team in Sheffield United.we're slow and predictable and some of our players look tired, why? We aren't playing European football or have extra games.

Same set up, same tactics, same subs, playing with one striker, won't give other striker a chance, poor in game management. It's a good job Deano is villa or there'd be upraor
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: LukeJames on December 08, 2019, 11:39:00 PM
It's a good job Deano is villa or there'd be upraor

There wouldnt and he's been questioned loads of times on here.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Demitri_C on December 09, 2019, 07:15:02 AM
Its clear to me looking at the team we dont have many game changers form the bench. Pereira looked a class above jota, el ghazi and trez. He was a lot better than grealish as well who had a absolute stinker 2nd half.

We need to get rid of Taylor, kodjia and elmo in jan and replace them. None of them are good enough.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 09, 2019, 07:32:28 AM
Coming out of the international break I was feeling good about the Newcastle and Man U games but other teams' results meant we were closer to the bottom 3 than before it. Now a couple of entirely predictable defeats and the table is looking decidedly dodgy. I think we'll be OK but picking up points over the next few games is crucial.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clampy on December 09, 2019, 10:39:19 AM
I think Tresequet needs to start over El Ghazi. I've nothing against El Ghazi at all, I quite like him but Tresequet seems a lot better at sneaking into the box. As for Wes, id drop him for Kodjia personally for a game or two. I think he needs to do something at least.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 09, 2019, 11:45:51 AM
I know that Wesley cost £20m or whatever, but Kodj wasn't exactly a snip at £12m either, and he's proved in the past that he's a much better goal scorer and all round footballer than Wesley.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 12:01:53 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.

This.

Really? 4-3-3 with Grealish in one of the front 3 positions actually had us on a nice little run before we hit the Man. City-Liverpool double trouble games.

I prefer it to early in the season when we had two out and out wingers and Grealish in the middle three and we looked very unbalanced at both ends.

My worry is in terms of major changes DS will go back to this and Sheffield United will expose the gaps between defence and midfield quite easily.

It's not really a 433 anyway, El Ghazi/Trez tend to stay fairly wide on the right but Grealish is tucked in somewhere between a left winger and a 10.  The change I'd make is to get the right winger doing the same. If it's Jota of Trez I'd want them on the ball and invovled in the build-up, if it's AEG I'd be getting him pushing into the box a lot more.

It all relies on us retaining possession better though, that's where we're losing games, we let teams recycle the ball far too easily and it means we get trapped in our own half and that's when Wesley looks terrible because he can't hold the ball up long enough to get people around him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 09, 2019, 12:02:14 PM
Keep calm and carry on. Former Ipswich Chairman John Cavendish Cobbold was once asked if the club was in crisis. He replied "We only consider it to be a crisis when we run out of red wine in the boardroom".
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AV82EC on December 09, 2019, 12:08:51 PM
Keep calm and carry on. Former Ipswich Chairman John Cavendish Cobbold was once asked if the club was in crisis. He replied "We only consider it to be a crisis when we run out of red wine in the boardroom".

Pedant alert - wasnít it white wine <winky thing>

Anyway as someone above said the template is better ball retention and Trying to get better support closer to Wesley, I donít care how he does it in terms of formation, he just needs to sort it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 09, 2019, 12:13:42 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.

This.

Really? 4-3-3 with Grealish in one of the front 3 positions actually had us on a nice little run before we hit the Man. City-Liverpool double trouble games.

I prefer it to early in the season when we had two out and out wingers and Grealish in the middle three and we looked very unbalanced at both ends.

My worry is in terms of major changes DS will go back to this and Sheffield United will expose the gaps between defence and midfield quite easily.

It's not really a 433 anyway, El Ghazi/Trez tend to stay fairly wide on the right but Grealish is tucked in somewhere between a left winger and a 10.  The change I'd make is to get the right winger doing the same. If it's Jota of Trez I'd want them on the ball and invovled in the build-up, if it's AEG I'd be getting him pushing into the box a lot more.

It all relies on us retaining possession better though, that's where we're losing games, we let teams recycle the ball far too easily and it means we get trapped in our own half and that's when Wesley looks terrible because he can't hold the ball up long enough to get people around him.
It also requires the midfield 3 to have some discipline and why I think that SJM is not necessarily suited to the role at this level.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on December 09, 2019, 12:17:57 PM
I know that Wesley cost £20m or whatever, but Kodj wasn't exactly a snip at £12m either, and he's proved in the past that he's a much better goal scorer and all round footballer than Wesley.

That past was some time ago unfortunately. That ankle injury finished him really. Thought he was really poor in the championship in the last two seasons, particularly when he played down the middle but also his application out wide was dire (West Brom comes to mind).

At this stage, the kit man could be a better option than Wes so I'm not sure how Kodjia isn't even getting a chance. But he isn't remotely good enough to be a starting option in the prem. I'd have some hope for Davis and unfortunately he got injured at the wrong time.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 12:34:47 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.

This.

Really? 4-3-3 with Grealish in one of the front 3 positions actually had us on a nice little run before we hit the Man. City-Liverpool double trouble games.

I prefer it to early in the season when we had two out and out wingers and Grealish in the middle three and we looked very unbalanced at both ends.

My worry is in terms of major changes DS will go back to this and Sheffield United will expose the gaps between defence and midfield quite easily.

It's not really a 433 anyway, El Ghazi/Trez tend to stay fairly wide on the right but Grealish is tucked in somewhere between a left winger and a 10.  The change I'd make is to get the right winger doing the same. If it's Jota of Trez I'd want them on the ball and invovled in the build-up, if it's AEG I'd be getting him pushing into the box a lot more.

It all relies on us retaining possession better though, that's where we're losing games, we let teams recycle the ball far too easily and it means we get trapped in our own half and that's when Wesley looks terrible because he can't hold the ball up long enough to get people around him.
It also requires the midfield 3 to have some discipline and why I think that SJM is not necessarily suited to the role at this level.


I'd probably change the midfield around a touch and play both Luiz and Nakamba as holding players, Nakamba with the remit of breaking up play and Luiz as a deep play maker looking to move the ball a bit quicker. That way McGinn can be the one who break forward and gets to the edge of the box. We need to work on his timing though so he's arriving late. At the moment he's playing with his back to goal too often, which is a big part of why he's not been as effective.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 09, 2019, 01:04:05 PM
I know that Wesley cost £20m or whatever, but Kodj wasn't exactly a snip at £12m either, and he's proved in the past that he's a much better goal scorer and all round footballer than Wesley.

Against Championship defenders so difficult to make an informed comparison. We do need a different option but I donít think heís it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 09, 2019, 01:13:57 PM
There full backs were excellent, especially Pereira. They knew exactly when to go and when to stay. I like both Guilbert and Targett but they dont have the same disciplined approach.

Chilwell was the standout for me.  I was sat on his side in the North Stand and he just kept motoring up and down that flank until he went off.  He blew past Elmo on a number of occasions and his delivery into the box was very good.

With him and Alexander-Arnold on the other side, England look pretty strong in the full-back area. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 09, 2019, 01:29:36 PM
This 4 3 3 is really hindering us. We're carrying AEG and Trez. Leicester's diamond system ironically enough looks like it would suit us so much better.

This.

Really? 4-3-3 with Grealish in one of the front 3 positions actually had us on a nice little run before we hit the Man. City-Liverpool double trouble games.

I prefer it to early in the season when we had two out and out wingers and Grealish in the middle three and we looked very unbalanced at both ends.

My worry is in terms of major changes DS will go back to this and Sheffield United will expose the gaps between defence and midfield quite easily.

It's not really a 433 anyway, El Ghazi/Trez tend to stay fairly wide on the right but Grealish is tucked in somewhere between a left winger and a 10.  The change I'd make is to get the right winger doing the same. If it's Jota of Trez I'd want them on the ball and invovled in the build-up, if it's AEG I'd be getting him pushing into the box a lot more.

It all relies on us retaining possession better though, that's where we're losing games, we let teams recycle the ball far too easily and it means we get trapped in our own half and that's when Wesley looks terrible because he can't hold the ball up long enough to get people around him.
It also requires the midfield 3 to have some discipline and why I think that SJM is not necessarily suited to the role at this level.


I'd probably change the midfield around a touch and play both Luiz and Nakamba as holding players, Nakamba with the remit of breaking up play and Luiz as a deep play maker looking to move the ball a bit quicker. That way McGinn can be the one who break forward and gets to the edge of the box. We need to work on his timing though so he's arriving late. At the moment he's playing with his back to goal too often, which is a big part of why he's not been as effective.
agree, but that is a change of system and Smith seems stuck on a flat 3 across the middle.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: peckvillajunior on December 09, 2019, 01:31:54 PM
Still pretty confident. We need to be more conservative against the top 8 or so teams but our record against the poorer sides should see us alright
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on December 09, 2019, 02:39:04 PM
There full backs were excellent, especially Pereira. They knew exactly when to go and when to stay. I like both Guilbert and Targett but they dont have the same disciplined approach.

Chilwell was the standout for me.  I was sat on his side in the North Stand and he just kept motoring up and down that flank until he went off.  He blew past Elmo on a number of occasions and his delivery into the box was very good.

With him and Alexander-Arnold on the other side, England look pretty strong in the full-back area. 

Poor selection by Smith. No way Elmo should start ahead of Guilbert.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Neil Hawkes on December 09, 2019, 03:06:36 PM
Vardy has proven time & again he can leave many defences bamboozled, with the gift of hindsight I would have sacrificed Luiz from the starting line-up and would have had Guilbert man-marking Vardy throughout the game, (leaving the other 4 defenders as they were).

A rigid formation only works when you are one of the top teams in the division.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Oscar Arce on December 09, 2019, 04:33:46 PM
We're never going to win a game conceding 26 shots at goal.
Sometimes our midfield looks empty, and the defence worries me with a mish mash of zonal and man marking, which is a pet hate of mine.
Mings, who likes to be spare from corners and free kicks, alarmingly does not attack the ball, which surely he is supposed to do.
Next five will decide if we're in a shitfight until the end of the season or can look towards the sunny uplands of mid-table.
Personally, I would change it a bit to three at the back, we have a good lefty (Hause), a good spare (Mings) and a good righty (Engels), allowing our full backs Guilbert and Targett to use the width and make us more solid when we don't have the ball.
It would also allow us to play two up top, I doubt very much this will happen.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: danno on December 09, 2019, 04:38:48 PM
Personally, I would change it a bit to three at the back, we have a good lefty (Hause), a good spare (Mings) and a good righty (Engels), allowing our full backs Guilbert and Targett to use the width and make us more solid when we don't have the ball. It would also allow us to play two up top, I doubt very much this will happen.

You're right it probably won't, but who would your three in midfield be?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on December 09, 2019, 04:46:32 PM
We're never going to win a game conceding 26 shots at goal.
Sometimes our midfield looks empty, and the defence worries me with a mish mash of zonal and man marking, which is a pet hate of mine.
Mings, who likes to be spare from corners and free kicks, alarmingly does not attack the ball, which surely he is supposed to do.
Next five will decide if we're in a shitfight until the end of the season or can look towards the sunny uplands of mid-table.
Personally, I would change it a bit to three at the back, we have a good lefty (Hause), a good spare (Mings) and a good righty (Engels), allowing our full backs Guilbert and Targett to use the width and make us more solid when we don't have the ball.
It would also allow us to play two up top, I doubt very much this will happen.

Sky have an article today that refers mainly to Arsenal but does making passing reference that only Norwich and us allow more shots on goal than Arsenal. We urgently need to change tactically to stop that continuing, otherwise we will be going down with Norwich. Arsenal at least have the forwards to keep them out of trouble, we don't.

I'm not usually a fan of three at the back but it could be worth trying at Sheff Utd to match them. Depending on how fit Mings is I guess, as Konsa urgently needs to come out I think. Alternatively, Hause to come in at left back to improve the balance of the defence physically with Targett dropping out. No matter what combination we try in midfield we still look too open. Just think Hause's presence can help us a lot at set piece time alone.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AV82EC on December 09, 2019, 04:49:19 PM
Iíd agree on Hause but if Mings isnít fit as left CB in my view. If Mings is fit then Targett hasnt done enough to keep the shirt.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 04:58:18 PM
We're never going to win a game conceding 26 shots at goal.
Sometimes our midfield looks empty, and the defence worries me with a mish mash of zonal and man marking, which is a pet hate of mine.
Mings, who likes to be spare from corners and free kicks, alarmingly does not attack the ball, which surely he is supposed to do.
Next five will decide if we're in a shitfight until the end of the season or can look towards the sunny uplands of mid-table.
Personally, I would change it a bit to three at the back, we have a good lefty (Hause), a good spare (Mings) and a good righty (Engels), allowing our full backs Guilbert and Targett to use the width and make us more solid when we don't have the ball.
It would also allow us to play two up top, I doubt very much this will happen.

Sky have an article today that refers mainly to Arsenal but does making passing reference that only Norwich and us allow more shots on goal than Arsenal. We urgently need to change tactically to stop that continuing, otherwise we will be going down with Norwich. Arsenal at least have the forwards to keep them out of trouble, we don't.

I'm not usually a fan of three at the back but it could be worth trying at Sheff Utd to match them. Depending on how fit Mings is I guess, as Konsa urgently needs to come out I think. Alternatively, Hause to come in at left back to improve the balance of the defence physically with Targett dropping out. No matter what combination we try in midfield we still look too open. Just think Hause's presence can help us a lot at set piece time alone.

All of this is why all the focus on blaming Wesley and calling for a replacement in January is ignoring the real problem. As I said earlier, we need to hold onto the ball better and not let clubs have 10-15minute spells where they get 7-8 attempts in and we barely cross halfway.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 09, 2019, 05:21:56 PM
We're never going to win a game conceding 26 shots at goal.
Sometimes our midfield looks empty, and the defence worries me with a mish mash of zonal and man marking, which is a pet hate of mine.
Mings, who likes to be spare from corners and free kicks, alarmingly does not attack the ball, which surely he is supposed to do.
Next five will decide if we're in a shitfight until the end of the season or can look towards the sunny uplands of mid-table.
Personally, I would change it a bit to three at the back, we have a good lefty (Hause), a good spare (Mings) and a good righty (Engels), allowing our full backs Guilbert and Targett to use the width and make us more solid when we don't have the ball.
It would also allow us to play two up top, I doubt very much this will happen.

Sky have an article today that refers mainly to Arsenal but does making passing reference that only Norwich and us allow more shots on goal than Arsenal. We urgently need to change tactically to stop that continuing, otherwise we will be going down with Norwich. Arsenal at least have the forwards to keep them out of trouble, we don't.

I'm not usually a fan of three at the back but it could be worth trying at Sheff Utd to match them. Depending on how fit Mings is I guess, as Konsa urgently needs to come out I think. Alternatively, Hause to come in at left back to improve the balance of the defence physically with Targett dropping out. No matter what combination we try in midfield we still look too open. Just think Hause's presence can help us a lot at set piece time alone.

All of this is why all the focus on blaming Wesley and calling for a replacement in January is ignoring the real problem. As I said earlier, we need to hold onto the ball better and not let clubs have 10-15minute spells where they get 7-8 attempts in and we barely cross halfway.
Part of holding the ball better is to have a functioning number 9, I know itís not just down to him. The overall pattern of play seems to allow opposing teams to get at our back 4 very easily.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 09, 2019, 05:32:46 PM
If we had a decent number 9, we could try a diamond formation, like:

              Heaton
Guilbert Engels Mings Targett
             Nakamba
McGinn                    Luiz
                  Jack
 El Ghazi/Trez     Anybodybutwesley
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: paul_e on December 09, 2019, 05:35:07 PM
We're never going to win a game conceding 26 shots at goal.
Sometimes our midfield looks empty, and the defence worries me with a mish mash of zonal and man marking, which is a pet hate of mine.
Mings, who likes to be spare from corners and free kicks, alarmingly does not attack the ball, which surely he is supposed to do.
Next five will decide if we're in a shitfight until the end of the season or can look towards the sunny uplands of mid-table.
Personally, I would change it a bit to three at the back, we have a good lefty (Hause), a good spare (Mings) and a good righty (Engels), allowing our full backs Guilbert and Targett to use the width and make us more solid when we don't have the ball.
It would also allow us to play two up top, I doubt very much this will happen.

Sky have an article today that refers mainly to Arsenal but does making passing reference that only Norwich and us allow more shots on goal than Arsenal. We urgently need to change tactically to stop that continuing, otherwise we will be going down with Norwich. Arsenal at least have the forwards to keep them out of trouble, we don't.

I'm not usually a fan of three at the back but it could be worth trying at Sheff Utd to match them. Depending on how fit Mings is I guess, as Konsa urgently needs to come out I think. Alternatively, Hause to come in at left back to improve the balance of the defence physically with Targett dropping out. No matter what combination we try in midfield we still look too open. Just think Hause's presence can help us a lot at set piece time alone.

All of this is why all the focus on blaming Wesley and calling for a replacement in January is ignoring the real problem. As I said earlier, we need to hold onto the ball better and not let clubs have 10-15minute spells where they get 7-8 attempts in and we barely cross halfway.
Part of holding the ball better is to have a functioning number 9, I know itís not just down to him. The overall pattern of play seems to allow opposing teams to get at our back 4 very easily.

Possibly but all too often his bad performances come when we're camped in our own half and he's got 3-4 defenders around him and has to wait for support. When we get players around him and control the tempo for a while we look a far better side and he looks a much better player, the trick is finding ways to do it against good sides.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on December 09, 2019, 05:57:22 PM
Leicester's midfield diamond ripped us to shreds by flooding the midfield, Iheanacho dropping off and the full backs pushing up to totally overwhelm our quite static three in the middle and the slightly muddled up positioning of the wingers and full backs. We have the personnel to play a similar system, Jack naturally in the number ten position, Nakamba holding and Doug and Conor the link (John really needs a break right now). We'd need to bring back Fred obviously, and I'd like to see Trez in the second striker role with either Wes or Davis, who at least deserves a go in that pure holding up role with another forward there to relieve him off the sole goalscoring burden.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: robbo1874 on December 10, 2019, 07:48:53 AM
Leicester's midfield diamond ripped us to shreds by flooding the midfield, Iheanacho dropping off and the full backs pushing up to totally overwhelm our quite static three in the middle and the slightly muddled up positioning of the wingers and full backs. We have the personnel to play a similar system, Jack naturally in the number ten position, Nakamba holding and Doug and Conor the link (John really needs a break right now). We'd need to bring back Fred obviously, and I'd like to see Trez in the second striker role with either Wes or Davis, who at least deserves a go in that pure holding up role with another forward there to relieve him off the sole goalscoring burden.
i thought Davis did OK when he came on at City. Iíd be tempted to give him a run in the next few games. Iíve defended Wesley up til now, but Iím starting to agree with the view that perhaps he may not be up to the required standard. I do like him, but itís not really clicked yet for him and he seems to have gone backwards in his progress the last few games. Maybe give Davis a run for a bit through the Xmas / New Years fixtures?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 10, 2019, 07:58:29 AM
Last 10 games.

Whqt more would you reasonably expect us to have won?


(https://i.ibb.co/ZmzBzgR/FB-IMG-1575964471668.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZmzBzgR)

free image hosts (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Monty on December 10, 2019, 09:28:52 AM
Last 10 games.

Whqt more would you reasonably expect us to have won?


(https://i.ibb.co/ZmzBzgR/FB-IMG-1575964471668.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZmzBzgR)

free image hosts (https://imgbb.com/)


Here's the problem. We had some poor results before this run of games, which other clubs near us have also had, but with one caveat - teams like Newcastle have also got some results from 'unreasonable' sources, balancing out defeats like the one against us.

There've been a lot of excuses this season - losing to Bournemouth at home because we weren't gelled yet as a squad, losing points late against Spurs and Arsenal because hey, they're great teams (who then go on to be terrible against everyone else), all that kind of stuff. Sooner or later the excuses run out, and if you're losing against most of the other teams it's because they're currently better than you. We need to improve, and soon.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 10, 2019, 09:56:19 AM
I think we should be aiming to get something at Bramall Lane. Though they are a form team.

We really need to pick up more points over the next run of games though. In the reverse fixtures to those 10 I'd hope we pick up a point or two in the home games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 10, 2019, 09:58:00 AM
Yes, the so-called "free hits" are proving anything but. We need to improve our record against the moneyed elite, especially with most of them at Villa Park in the second half of the season. I'll be annoyed if wr don't pick up any points from very average looking Arsenal and Tottenham sides, and we are due a win against Man U... it'll be a decade on Thursday.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on December 10, 2019, 10:02:31 AM
So in summary we have several injured players, others that look totally drained of energy, a centre forward who doesnít remotely resemble a professional footballer, a well meaning manager whoís lack of PL experience is being exposed match by match and weíre on the brink of dropping into the bottom three.

Worried? Erm...yeah.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 10, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
Talking to a few Evertonian mates over the last few days and I asked what the difference was against Chelsea Ö...  they all mentioned the word passion  - new manager bounce maybe, but Ferguson had them up for the game. This is what I expect from Smith, especially this weekend when they will be up against a team ready to battle ÖÖ having said that if we are already showing signs of fatigue I think we will be found out even more in the coming weeks - fitter teams will just be able to pick us off.
Looking at 3 poorer/weaker teams than us right now is proving evermore difficult Ö.. sort it out Villa 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 10, 2019, 12:38:21 PM
Yes, the so-called "free hits" are proving anything but. We need to improve our record against the moneyed elite, especially with most of them at Villa Park in the second half of the season. I'll be annoyed if wr don't pick up any points from very average looking Arsenal and Tottenham sides, and we are due a win against Man U... it'll be a decade on Thursday.

Arsenal perhaps but they showed last night that they can still be dangerous, if they sort their defence out thereís a good team there. I think Spurs have turned a corner and will be back pushing for a top 6 place, they have underperformed so far but putting five past Burnley should boost their confidence. Theyíre not the sort of games that will decide our season it is making sure we pick up the points against other teams in the bottom half of the league and we play a lot of them over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Chris Smith on December 10, 2019, 12:43:21 PM
Talking to a few Evertonian mates over the last few days and I asked what the difference was against Chelsea Ö...  they all mentioned the word passion  - new manager bounce maybe, but Ferguson had them up for the game. This is what I expect from Smith, especially this weekend when they will be up against a team ready to battle ÖÖ having said that if we are already showing signs of fatigue I think we will be found out even more in the coming weeks - fitter teams will just be able to pick us off.
Looking at 3 poorer/weaker teams than us right now is proving evermore difficult Ö.. sort it out Villa 

That approach worked for them at the weekend because I think it took Chelsea by surprise, itís not a trick that they can repeat very often. They probably have enough to stay clear of trouble but given that they have spent near to half a billion under this owner they really should have a lot more to show for it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 14, 2019, 07:01:57 PM
Starting to feel a bit uneasy now ......must win games looming and we all know how we do in those ;)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: phantom limb on December 14, 2019, 07:04:42 PM
While our current run is depressing, Iím filled with rage about all of the dropped points earlier in the season. There are so many examples, the Arsenal game being especially aggravating. Iíd hoped it wouldnít come back to bite us, and of course here we are.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 14, 2019, 07:13:02 PM
While our current run is depressing, Iím filled with rage about all of the dropped points earlier in the season. There are so many examples, the Arsenal game being especially aggravating. Iíd hoped it wouldnít come back to bite us, and of course here we are.

At least in the early art of the season we looked like we had a plan, kept to it and generally played well. I miss those days.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: malckennedy on December 14, 2019, 07:13:33 PM
In answer to the question in the thread title, yes. Very.

Our best players are starting to struggle. Our worst are not good enough (including our £22m ďstrikerĒ).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 07:15:08 PM
While our current run is depressing, Iím filled with rage about all of the dropped points earlier in the season. There are so many examples, the Arsenal game being especially aggravating. Iíd hoped it wouldnít come back to bite us, and of course here we are.

Yes we messed up badly in the first few weeks. Not beating ten men West Ham, leading twice v Burnley at home and also the headless chicken opening 10 minutes v Bournemouth which cost us at least a point.

Worry for me is it's all gone flat very quickly and the goals are drying up so not a good combination at all for the huge games coming up in next two weeks.

Given our options up front it's a minor miracle we've scored as many as we've had although that is starting to balance up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 07:18:05 PM
While our current run is depressing, Iím filled with rage about all of the dropped points earlier in the season. There are so many examples, the Arsenal game being especially aggravating. Iíd hoped it wouldnít come back to bite us, and of course here we are.
Couldnít agree more and Smith was the major reason why we threw those points away and in terms of game management nothing has changed.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on December 14, 2019, 07:23:31 PM
Lack of fight worries me. A basic requirement in this League. Also, lack of fitness is a major concern.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Louzie0 on December 14, 2019, 07:24:35 PM
No
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 14, 2019, 07:25:16 PM
I honestly think the players have sussed Wes out as a dud and the whole team is suffering. No hold up play leads to knackered legs on 70mins.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 07:29:20 PM
Yes, the so-called "free hits" are proving anything but. We need to improve our record against the moneyed elite, especially with most of them at Villa Park in the second half of the season. I'll be annoyed if wr don't pick up any points from very average looking Arsenal and Tottenham sides, and we are due a win against Man U... it'll be a decade on Thursday.

Arsenal perhaps but they showed last night that they can still be dangerous, if they sort their defence out thereís a good team there. I think Spurs have turned a corner and will be back pushing for a top 6 place, they have underperformed so far but putting five past Burnley should boost their confidence. Theyíre not the sort of games that will decide our season it is making sure we pick up the points against other teams in the bottom half of the league and we play a lot of them over the next few weeks.

Surely we could do something against Chelsea at home? They've just lost to a Bournemouth team with about 12 players out. Also lost to West Ham and Everton on bad runs. Our meek performance down there dosen't look too clever now.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 07:30:28 PM
Anyway another week outside the bottom 3 so that's an important thing to cling onto. We're poor but not poor enough to fall into relegation zone yet.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: richtheholtender on December 14, 2019, 07:30:47 PM
No. Weíre still out the bottom 3 with two struggling teams coming up at home. We could be 4-6 points clear of the bottom 3 come the half way stage. I donít care what anybody says, stopping up has always and will always be the goal for this season and so far we are on track to do that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 07:36:08 PM
The next 3 games define our season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Des Little on December 14, 2019, 07:36:38 PM
9 points from the next 3 is both realistic and essential.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 07:36:43 PM
Just had a look at Southampton's run after next weekend's game. Up to 1st Feb they have:

Chelsea away

Palace home

Spurs home

Leicester away

Wolves home

Palace away

Liverpool away

O.k a guarenteed 3 points at Chelsea due to Lampard desperately trying to relegate us but reality is we win next week or at worst not lose and there's a good chance we could build up a decent points buffer over 18th by end of January.

Not going to go too negatively unless we come out next weekend and play dismally.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 07:43:46 PM
Youíre right soccer. On paper were in an ok place, in with a chance heading into January when we will surely buy the players needed to plug gaping holes in the team.

Itís the nature of the last few results Iím worried about - lack of fight, lack of intelligence. Everyone said Leicester are the form team, always going to be a hard game etc. But look at their result today at home. Chelsea and today were also abysmal.

We just have that whiff about us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 14, 2019, 07:55:10 PM
Right now I donít trust these players to beat anyone, players have off days, moments, but bloody hell weíve gone into our shells and Smith and his coaches seem unable to coach them out of them. Nakamba for example, ran the show against Brighton, heís been pish ever since, McGinn, where do you start, Luiz has been bobbins. 
We need a win Tuesday, any kind will do followed up with an assured victory on Saturday, nothing else will do.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 14, 2019, 08:03:34 PM
The next 3 games define our season.

December 21st to January 21st will define our season. Southampton (H), Norwich (H), Watford (A), Burnley (A), Man City (H), Brighton (A), Watford (H)

Apart from Man City we couldn't hope for a better run of fixtures to try to climb the table.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 08:07:38 PM
Right now I donít trust these players to beat anyone, players have off days, moments, but bloody hell weíve gone into our shells and Smith and his coaches seem unable to coach them out of them. Nakamba for example, ran the show against Brighton, heís been pish ever since, McGinn, where do you start, Luiz has been bobbins. 
We need a win Tuesday, any kind will do followed up with an assured victory on Saturday, nothing else will do.

Consistency is the issue with the players. All our players are good on their day and can change games but everyone of them including grealish has off games quite regularly and quite a few of them like AEG are all or nothing.

Weíve only had a couple games where everyone clicked, Everton and Norwich.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 14, 2019, 08:10:39 PM
Right now I donít trust these players to beat anyone, players have off days, moments, but bloody hell weíve gone into our shells and Smith and his coaches seem unable to coach them out of them. Nakamba for example, ran the show against Brighton, heís been pish ever since, McGinn, where do you start, Luiz has been bobbins. 
We need a win Tuesday, any kind will do followed up with an assured victory on Saturday, nothing else will do.

Consistency is the issue with the players. All our players are good on their day and can change games but everyone of them including grealish has off games quite regularly and quite a few of them like AEG are all or nothing.

Weíve only had a couple games where everyone clicked, Everton and Norwich.


Our inconsistency isn't just a game to game thing. We are too inconsistent during games too.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 08:14:49 PM
It's worth remembering many of these players have not played at this level before or very limited experience. We may have signed some of them for big money but bang average players go for at least 15m these days as Targett is showing. Guy couldn't even get in a poor Southampton team regularly in last two seasons.

Hause was a back up CB at Wolves who didn't play when they went up, Lansbury hardly played in prem at other clubs and settled in championship.

We have signed some good players but most were just punts from abroad or lower end here. Now if we'd signed 4-5 with the top level experience that Heaton does I'd be much more disappointed as the expectation would be greater then. Like it was in the MON days when we had an 11 full of solid internationals.

This is why January is crucial to me. Not just to stay up but to build for the next 18 months. We need to up our transfer sights a little imo and go after proven international class players.

Wolves signed Neves, Moutinho and Raul Jimenez and they are thriving at prem level and in europa with those three the heartbeat once they cross the halfway line.

It's surely not too much to ask to sign players of that standard?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 14, 2019, 08:33:57 PM
Villa  need 5 more wins
Look at the winnable potential fixtures from 11 remaining at home

Southampton h
Norwich h
Watford h
Palace h
Sheff utd h
Wolves h

And Villa need 6 draws -we take some away points from rivals (and maybe even wins )
Away at
Southampton ,
Watford,
Brighton ,
Bournemouth.
West Ham
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Mister E on December 14, 2019, 08:35:50 PM
I honestly think the players have sussed Wes out as a dud and the whole team is suffering. No hold up play leads to knackered legs on 70mins.
Perleeeeeaase. Behave.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 14, 2019, 08:37:48 PM
It's worth remembering many of these players have not played at this level before or very limited experience. We may have signed some of them for big money but bang average players go for at least 15m these days as Targett is showing. Guy couldn't even get in a poor Southampton team regularly in last two seasons.

Hause was a back up CB at Wolves who didn't play when they went up, Lansbury hardly played in prem at other clubs and settled in championship.

We have signed some good players but most were just punts from abroad or lower end here. Now if we'd signed 4-5 with the top level experience that Heaton does I'd be much more disappointed as the expectation would be greater then. Like it was in the MON days when we had an 11 full of solid internationals.

This is why January is crucial to me. Not just to stay up but to build for the next 18 months. We need to up our transfer sights a little imo and go after proven international class players.

Wolves signed Neves, Moutinho and Raul Jimenez and they are thriving at prem level and in europa with those three the heartbeat once they cross the halfway line.

It's surely not too much to ask to sign players of that standard?

How many of the Sheff Utd players have played at this level? Has the manager managed at this level? They seem to be adjusting very well despite their lack of PL experience.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on December 14, 2019, 08:41:11 PM
It's worth remembering many of these players have not played at this level before or very limited experience. We may have signed some of them for big money but bang average players go for at least 15m these days as Targett is showing. Guy couldn't even get in a poor Southampton team regularly in last two seasons.

Hause was a back up CB at Wolves who didn't play when they went up, Lansbury hardly played in prem at other clubs and settled in championship.

We have signed some good players but most were just punts from abroad or lower end here. Now if we'd signed 4-5 with the top level experience that Heaton does I'd be much more disappointed as the expectation would be greater then. Like it was in the MON days when we had an 11 full of solid internationals.

This is why January is crucial to me. Not just to stay up but to build for the next 18 months. We need to up our transfer sights a little imo and go after proven international class players.

Wolves signed Neves, Moutinho and Raul Jimenez and they are thriving at prem level and in europa with those three the heartbeat once they cross the halfway line.

It's surely not too much to ask to sign players of that standard?
Absolutely spot on. Some real quality and experience on top of what we have is really needed. We are not too bad and in a rut but we seriously need something more.
Iím still convinced Smith can get us out of trouble. Too many players out of form but Awe donít have the squad to mix it up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 14, 2019, 08:41:55 PM
Three wins on the bounce over Xmas would do us a world of good. I am concerned it's looking like 3 out of 4 currently. Long way to go of course.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 08:45:50 PM
It's worth remembering many of these players have not played at this level before or very limited experience. We may have signed some of them for big money but bang average players go for at least 15m these days as Targett is showing. Guy couldn't even get in a poor Southampton team regularly in last two seasons.

Hause was a back up CB at Wolves who didn't play when they went up, Lansbury hardly played in prem at other clubs and settled in championship.

We have signed some good players but most were just punts from abroad or lower end here. Now if we'd signed 4-5 with the top level experience that Heaton does I'd be much more disappointed as the expectation would be greater then. Like it was in the MON days when we had an 11 full of solid internationals.

This is why January is crucial to me. Not just to stay up but to build for the next 18 months. We need to up our transfer sights a little imo and go after proven international class players.

Wolves signed Neves, Moutinho and Raul Jimenez and they are thriving at prem level and in europa with those three the heartbeat once they cross the halfway line.

It's surely not too much to ask to sign players of that standard?

How many of the Sheff Utd players have played at this level? Has the manager managed at this level? They seem to be adjusting very well despite their lack of PL experience.

Oh they're performing brilliantly but there is always one outlier team every season and they are it. The norm though is for promoted teams to struggle, Norwich finished what 20 points ahead of us but didn't add much and they've struggled more than we have.

This time last week we were only 4 points behind Sheffield United so it wasn't like they were miles ahead of us until last two games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 09:20:09 PM
It's worth remembering many of these players have not played at this level before or very limited experience. We may have signed some of them for big money but bang average players go for at least 15m these days as Targett is showing. Guy couldn't even get in a poor Southampton team regularly in last two seasons.

Hause was a back up CB at Wolves who didn't play when they went up, Lansbury hardly played in prem at other clubs and settled in championship.

We have signed some good players but most were just punts from abroad or lower end here. Now if we'd signed 4-5 with the top level experience that Heaton does I'd be much more disappointed as the expectation would be greater then. Like it was in the MON days when we had an 11 full of solid internationals.

This is why January is crucial to me. Not just to stay up but to build for the next 18 months. We need to up our transfer sights a little imo and go after proven international class players.

Wolves signed Neves, Moutinho and Raul Jimenez and they are thriving at prem level and in europa with those three the heartbeat once they cross the halfway line.

It's surely not too much to ask to sign players of that standard?
Not easy to recruit Prem quality players when you are sitting just above the relegation zone.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 09:21:55 PM
You can recruit anyone you want when youíve got owners as rich as ours.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 14, 2019, 09:22:59 PM
So explain why the purchase of Maupay was sanctioned by Pitarch.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 14, 2019, 09:23:59 PM
You can recruit anyone you want when youíve got owners as rich as ours.
I think there is a little bit more to it than that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 14, 2019, 09:31:17 PM
Not easy to recruit Prem quality players when you are sitting just above the relegation zone.
No it isn't easy, but that's what we've got to do.  No excuses.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Flamingo Lane on December 14, 2019, 09:33:55 PM
Sadly, the position we are likely to find ourselves in when the transfer window opens is just the position you don't want to be in when looking to attract quality players.

However, I would say that two strikers are an absolute must - and preferably two who might gel together up top.  Ideally, one who is hungry to play and succeed at the highest level, and one who's been there and still has something to offer.  I'm not saying these are the ones we should go for or might get, but one like Ollie Watkins of Brentford (ok, I know) and one like Charlie Austin, Glenn Murray or Dannie Ings.  But a couple who between them might score 10-12 goals over the remaining fixtures and can even bring something out of Wesley.  As it is, with only Wesley as an option up front, we are truly stuffed.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 09:44:18 PM
You can recruit anyone you want when youíve got owners as rich as ours.
I think there is a little bit more to it than that.

Outside a few elite teams and world class players, I really donít think it matters that much. If theyíre in the right league and theyíre paid enough, good players will come and play for us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 14, 2019, 10:04:41 PM
Sheffield United came into the top flight with two good years of stability and momentum behind them. We came into the top flight with a few months of stability and momentum.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 14, 2019, 10:13:36 PM
Wilder is also a much better manager than Smith.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 14, 2019, 10:15:08 PM
Sheff Utd have spent 87p to go from midtable in division 3 to top 5 in the PL in just over 3 years.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 14, 2019, 10:16:53 PM
Sheff Utd have spent 87p to go from midtable in division 3 to top 5 in the PL in just over 3 years.
Yes but they spent it well.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 10:32:51 PM
It's worth remembering many of these players have not played at this level before or very limited experience. We may have signed some of them for big money but bang average players go for at least 15m these days as Targett is showing. Guy couldn't even get in a poor Southampton team regularly in last two seasons.

Hause was a back up CB at Wolves who didn't play when they went up, Lansbury hardly played in prem at other clubs and settled in championship.

We have signed some good players but most were just punts from abroad or lower end here. Now if we'd signed 4-5 with the top level experience that Heaton does I'd be much more disappointed as the expectation would be greater then. Like it was in the MON days when we had an 11 full of solid internationals.

This is why January is crucial to me. Not just to stay up but to build for the next 18 months. We need to up our transfer sights a little imo and go after proven international class players.

Wolves signed Neves, Moutinho and Raul Jimenez and they are thriving at prem level and in europa with those three the heartbeat once they cross the halfway line.

It's surely not too much to ask to sign players of that standard?
Not easy to recruit Prem quality players when you are sitting just above the relegation zone.

We signed Darren Bent when we were bottom 3 weren't we? Also signed Carew when we were in bottom half in 2007. Robbie Keane aswell in 2012 when we were probably floating around 12th given it was the Mcleish year.

Three international quality forwards who helped improved us when they came in so that's the standard we should be looking at.

People are saying we're going to be challenging for europe in a year or two. We need to raise the bar in signings if we're really going to do that.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 10:40:17 PM
Bent was the one that came to mind.

Surely if we are looking to stay up this year then go crazy next year using the ridiculous resources at our disposal we aren't a hard sell.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 14, 2019, 11:39:26 PM
The more I think the more I canít decide where the real issue is. Is Wesley shit or unsupported? Is smith letting the players down or are they letting him down? Maybe itís a bit of everything which is the really worrying thing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 14, 2019, 11:48:36 PM
Wes simply isn't good enough to start week in week out. I'm convinced at every other club he'd be a back up. He's simply not better than likes of Ings, Deeney, Pukki so wouldn't be a starter at those clubs.

He reminds me of Kozak. Big and gangly and can poach a few goals but overall not good enough to be a regular starter. Kozak started a few when Benteke picked up injuries but was largely a squad striker before his unfortunate injury and that's what Wesley should've been but we messed up the decision on Maupay and then didn't pursue a replacement.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 15, 2019, 12:50:56 AM
Even when we were playing ok, Wes was still shit. He really is hopeless.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 15, 2019, 01:21:32 AM
No.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on December 15, 2019, 01:40:35 AM
After watching yesterday's game, a bit more than I was a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on December 15, 2019, 01:53:10 AM
All the teams at the bottom appear to be playing better than us, the team seems to have lost its spirit and togetherness, Jack may well be looking to next season already.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 15, 2019, 12:18:37 PM
No
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on December 15, 2019, 12:33:23 PM
We are on the brink now. We have absolutely squeezed the pips out of our 5 goals against Norwich to stay out of bottom 3. We need MINIMUM 4 points from our next two games otherwise we will be in the horrific dog fight for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 15, 2019, 12:34:34 PM
17th will do for me. I think we will scrape 16th.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pete3206 on December 15, 2019, 03:11:53 PM
It's a sobering thought that we won't even be able to scrape 20 points by the halfway point.

However, it will be just the halfway point and any talk of being 'on the brink' is a bit premature.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: David_Nab on December 15, 2019, 03:13:22 PM
Everton win today and the bottom 4 getting cut a drift a little ..thats a worry as then turns into a mini league to stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: olaftab on December 15, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
It's a sobering thought that we won't even be able to scrape 20 points by the halfway point.

However, it will be just the halfway point and any talk of being 'on the brink' is a bit premature.

We are on the brink of whether we will be stuck in the mire all season or have  it a little easier knocking around 15th to 12th.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 15, 2019, 03:24:58 PM
It's a sobering thought that we won't even be able to scrape 20 points by the halfway point.

However, it will be just the halfway point and any talk of being 'on the brink' is a bit premature.


If we beat Saints and Norwich at home then we'll be on 21 points after 19 games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 15, 2019, 04:02:00 PM
In a word, yes. Haven't been worried up to now, but the next three league matches define our season, so it's hard not to be. All of them are six-pointers, and we've put ourselves in a position where we now can't afford to lose any of them really.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on December 15, 2019, 04:13:16 PM
My biggest concern right now is we're not even competing. Add to that, we look disjointed, a group of players brought in for their development rather than current ability. We overpaid massively in the summer on some players, I recall Brugge fans valuing Wesley at Ä7m and Saints fans thought we gave the £10m more than Targett was worth.

What has worried me most of this season is none of our front three (Wesley, El Ghazi and Trez) are anywhere near good enough and don't look like they ever will be. It's little wonder our midfield looks knackered when they're carrying them week after week.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 15, 2019, 07:34:01 PM
It's a sobering thought that we won't even be able to scrape 20 points by the halfway point.

However, it will be just the halfway point and any talk of being 'on the brink' is a bit premature.


If we beat Saints and Norwich at home then we'll be on 21 points after 19 games.

And that is great, however there are worrying signs, 10 defeats is poor, only my opinion
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pete3206 on December 15, 2019, 08:58:20 PM
It's a sobering thought that we won't even be able to scrape 20 points by the halfway point.

However, it will be just the halfway point and any talk of being 'on the brink' is a bit premature.


If we beat Saints and Norwich at home then we'll be on 21 points after 19 games.

Of course yes, thanks for the correction.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 15, 2019, 09:27:28 PM
More and more worried. We're a mess and the odd flash apart, have been since that out-of-the-blue wowzer at Norwich City.

It's as if Dean is picking Wes to spite Jesus for buying such a pile of old shite.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AVH87 on December 15, 2019, 09:33:19 PM
Fairly worried, as we seem to be going in to a crunch time of the season a bit out of form and low on confidence, also Mings not being there to organise defence and lead the team and be vocal is a miss.

Like 99% of us I'm not impressed with Wesley but in all honesty Dean is probably picking him in the hope he somehow improves as we don't have a better alternative. Very rare teams sign someone early in Jan too, so I think we will have played 25 games or so before we have genuine competition up there.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on December 15, 2019, 09:55:45 PM
How much influence does DS have over who we buy who calls the shots?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 15, 2019, 09:56:37 PM
Pitarch.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 16, 2019, 11:43:55 AM
How much influence does DS have over who we buy who calls the shots?

We signed two over the summer from Brentford so he certainly signed those two.

This reminds me of Sherwood waxing lyrical when we signed likes of Ayew and Gana and then two months later it was "nothing to do with me guv."

I do have sympathy with DS though if he really wanted Maupay but got overruled and then had Wes inflicted onto him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 16, 2019, 01:20:35 PM
Still not worrying.

Pissed off after Saturday? Yes.

But we've just had the sort of run of games that would have any team in difficulties.

We really mustn't give in. There were always going to be some torrid spells and results, let's give the first team a break, let the reserves play against Liverpool and take it from there.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 21, 2019, 03:44:50 PM
Errr...
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 21, 2019, 03:48:33 PM
Started to get worried now..

I'm starting to have doubts about Smith.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: thick_mike on December 21, 2019, 03:49:46 PM
Yes
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Martin Carruthers on December 21, 2019, 03:49:59 PM
Officially worried now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Demitri_C on December 21, 2019, 03:50:32 PM
We are going down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 21, 2019, 03:50:38 PM
I think he's maybe avoided a rough ride in recent weeks because of the fact he's a Villa fan, if he wasn't I think people would have turned quicker - regardless of him getting us up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 21, 2019, 03:52:11 PM
This first half is like it was under Remi Garde. it's lifeless, no fight, no leadership, no organisation, basics all wrong - the players just don't seem to be as interested as they was a few months ago. I'm worried for Smith, there's no plan B.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: GarTomas on December 21, 2019, 03:53:19 PM
Big half time talk.

Iíve been squarely in the not worried camp but that first half was horrific.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 03:54:25 PM
Extremely worried now. Wouldn't mind if we were losing playing well. Smith needs a fucking idea fast, but appears to have zero.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 21, 2019, 03:54:41 PM
It will all be fine ........Dean is one of us so he can't fail :(
The new contract or pay rise, whatever it was, seems to have been somewhat premature
It would seem that neither the club nor this coach were ready for the step up
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villasjf on December 21, 2019, 03:56:47 PM
We wern't ready for promotion not fit enough not good enough manager not good enough.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 04:01:07 PM
As it stands there are not three teams worse than us in this league
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on December 21, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
I agree with you, TV.

It's very worrying.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on December 21, 2019, 04:02:12 PM
100%. That first half had relegated stamped all over it.

If we don't even look like turning this around in the second half, then we're right in the shit.

I'm worried for Boxing Day now and we're only at HT here!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ez on December 21, 2019, 04:05:51 PM
Now worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on December 21, 2019, 04:28:30 PM
Worth remembering we have no youth forcing their way into the team. As per usual
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: manic-road on December 21, 2019, 04:32:26 PM
I'm now officially worried. Abysmal today.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 21, 2019, 04:58:30 PM
We're on board the relegation express, heading for a cliff. It's going to take a miracle to save this.

Absolutely garbage today from start to finish. Same mistakes week in, week out.

Same not-working formation and almost the same line up every week, regardless.

Leaves it way too late to make changes, never changes our set up to counter the opposition and the way they play. Relies on players who are clearly not delivering.

Just rubbish and getting worse.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 21, 2019, 04:59:37 PM
Very worried we won't be finishing top 4.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ez on December 21, 2019, 05:00:22 PM
Well that's the 'we've only played top sides recently' excuse blown away. Today we went from possible relegation to probable relegation.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: TonyD on December 21, 2019, 05:00:28 PM
As good as down.
Canít see a way back unless the owners have the balls to pull the  trigger asap. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Taylor on December 21, 2019, 05:05:45 PM
Iím not worried anymore. Iím resigned.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villadelph on December 21, 2019, 05:06:52 PM
As good as down.
Canít see a way back unless the owners have the balls to pull the  trigger asap.

Two men worth over $7 billion probably don't care for this romantic chapter of Aston Villa's history. Making money is more important than "he's one of us". I'm sure they would rather protect their investment. I'm more concerned they won't buy a real striker in January.

Trez and Jota were poorly scouted wingers and Wesley is just an abomination. If they rely on what they have it's going to end poorly.

The 4-3-3 has to stop.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Uknowthescore on December 21, 2019, 05:07:20 PM
Yep. Weíre literally doing a Fulham 😢
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 21, 2019, 05:09:00 PM
Iím worried we might finish bottom. Again.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: malckennedy on December 21, 2019, 05:09:49 PM
We're on board the relegation express, heading for a cliff. It's going to take a miracle to save this.

Absolutely garbage today from start to finish. Same mistakes week in, week out.

Same not-working formation and almost the same line up every week, regardless.

Leaves it way too late to make changes, never changes our set up to counter the opposition and the way they play. Relies on players who are clearly not delivering.

Just rubbish and getting worse.

Rather than a miracle we need to immediately replace this bang average, Championship level manager. Then weíll have a chance.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on December 21, 2019, 05:10:21 PM
Who are we going to haul back into the bottom three? They all keep winning at least once every so often.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: curiousorange on December 21, 2019, 05:10:28 PM
Break out the orange dot.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 21, 2019, 05:12:33 PM
Yep, I'm officially worried now.

It's not the fact the players aren't good enough (though some clearly aren't), it's the fact that in both the Leicester game and today they look like they've given up.

A lack of ability sometimes ends in relegation. A lack of desire always does.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: myf on December 21, 2019, 05:16:12 PM
why did we grant Smith a new contract?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ez on December 21, 2019, 05:16:35 PM
I still think we have good enough players. But sadly we need a new manager. Dean is out of his depth just like his favourite player. He's lost the players.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
3 points adrift now.  Lots of games coming up and no sign that things are turning around.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 05:17:34 PM
Season has totally changed because of today. I worry today's result will do untold damage in the coming months.

We've been very lucky not to drop into bottom 3 last two weeks. Now we're in the drop zone and now all of a sudden 3 points off 17th.

We're going into crucial matches without our spine as I doubt McGinn will be back anytime soon. As much as him and Mings have lost form in recent weeks we looked a championship 11 out there without either today.

Not good is it? The frustration is it didn't have to be like this. It's different to 2015 when the club really was on its knees at this level and begging to get relegated.

Maybe we came up too early. It's looking that way with the manager really struggling now to stop the poor form.

I have to say one wish for me whoever the manager is during January is we finally stop talking and go out and sign some proven players. Believe it or not but they do sign for clubs threatened by relegation.

People like to mock Wolves on here but they went out and signed Neves, Jimenez, Rui Patricio and Joao Moutinho. Top class internationals. Three were signed when they were newly promoted.

Wolves to me don't just talk about doing stuff, they go out and sign that and with them in knock outs of europa and not far off top 4 they're not too far off what we were in 08/09.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on December 21, 2019, 05:17:42 PM
Okay, worried now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Scovilla on December 21, 2019, 05:20:48 PM
Masssively worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 21, 2019, 05:30:19 PM
Who are we going to haul back into the bottom three? They all keep winning at least once every so often.

That's the main worry for me.

If Southampton sort out their home form they could well make 40 points as they're decent on the road.

Everton picking up points regularly and that will surely continue with Ancelotti. Probably same for West Ham aswell.

Likes of Newcastle, Palace and Burnley all in 25 point range although history shows a team around that figure can plummet. We did it one season under Lambert and Brighton did it last season.

Bournmouth look most vulnerable currently but they did beat Chelsea away just last week.

We could easily get another 20 points and still go down. Worry is on paper the second half of the season looks much harder than what we've had so far.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 05:42:51 PM
The players have absolutely no confidence at all in what they are told to do week after week. When your best player is on the wing despite being one of the best central attacking midfielders in the country and we continue to persist with a CF who is useless, or at least useless being played as a target man then players are left frustrated. We cannot defend crosses. We donít have any midfield cohesion or structure. We constantly punt long balls down the flanks and defences have wised up, dropped deeper and push our wingers wider and wider so they have no space. The manager has no flexibility at all in his approach. Picking Wes today was a fucking joke of a decision. Iím done with it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on December 21, 2019, 05:46:15 PM
Some very poor signs on the pitch today. Players not wanting the ball, injuries, a lack of confidence, an intransigent manager. Not good signs at all. Iím sure our chief executive is also aware of it too. A decision of stick or twist will need to be made before the January window opens.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villadelph on December 21, 2019, 05:49:17 PM
The players have absolutely no confidence at all in what they are told to do week after week. When your best player is on the wing despite being one of the best central attacking midfielders in the country and we continue to persist with a CF who is useless, or at least useless being played as a target man then players are left frustrated. We cannot defend crosses. We donít have any midfield cohesion or structure. We constantly punt long balls down the flanks and defences have wised up, dropped deeper and push our wingers wider and wider so they have no space. The manager has no flexibility at all in his approach. Picking Wes today was a fucking joke of a decision. Iím done with it.

Its that god damned 4-3-3. Your most central player has to be a defensive-minded holding midfielder. Which leaves Jack to create something from the outside. Its a sin to have him out there in a formation like this, with Wesley to play in to.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: f1sav on December 21, 2019, 06:36:05 PM
I have been worried all season, today is the day it's hit us all in the face. We are currently not good enough.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: frank black on December 21, 2019, 06:37:13 PM
Yes
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on December 21, 2019, 06:45:19 PM
I think the owners (unless something remarkable happens next month) are going to reap what they sowed. They showed a lot of sentimentality in keeping Smith despite his lack of PL pedigree. Iíd have probably done the same thing tbh. As things stand we look odds on to sray in the bottom three for the duration.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 21, 2019, 06:47:40 PM
I have been worried all season, today is the day it's hit us all in the face. We are currently not good enough.
Same here.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 07:12:22 PM
Beyond worried. We look like relegation dead certs at the moment.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rigadon on December 21, 2019, 07:15:23 PM
We need to grind out a couple of results and then buy a centre forward.  And a winger. And depending on SJMs injury, a centre midfielder. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: themossman on December 21, 2019, 07:22:24 PM
3 big ticket signings in January are essential. If we donít sign them weíre planning for life in the championship next season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 21, 2019, 07:27:09 PM
4 points from 27 and the lack of progress has relegation written all over it, if the owners canít see that then we really are doomed.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: passport1 on December 21, 2019, 07:42:45 PM
This season as I have stated since the start of the season is purely about survival. A rookey manager in charge of a squad of players inexperienced at this level was always going to a hell of a high risk strategy.  I guess we are going to find out what our ownership structure is made of now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 21, 2019, 07:51:20 PM
The only grain of comfort I had leaving the ground is that we were in this kind of position and worse for a number of seasons before we actually went down. 

Itís not looking good at the moment and is getting worse, but I do think some good signings in January could change things for the better.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 21, 2019, 07:54:36 PM
At this moment I am very worried
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: IFWaters on December 21, 2019, 07:58:03 PM
Put Terry in charge or splosh big on Poch?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 21, 2019, 08:10:04 PM
I have been worried all season, today is the day it's hit us all in the face. We are currently not good enough.
Same here.
The writing was on the wall in the first couple of home games .....performances like those against Everton,Norwich and Newcastle have been the exception and not the rule -  Smith is failing strategy wise whilst the players need to look at their levels of commitment - Do we have a fitness coach? If so he needs a kick up the arse
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 21, 2019, 08:11:59 PM
Put Terry in charge or splosh big on Poch?

I like Terry but I'd put him nowhere near it except as a placeholder for a game or two.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 21, 2019, 08:13:40 PM
Anyone who thinks Smith is getting the bullet two weeks after signing a four year contract needs to stop drinking!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on December 21, 2019, 08:15:39 PM
The owners will ask the question:  is this Head Coach getting, or capable of getting the best out of these players.  The fact is that we are getting worse, so the answer is no.  Is another Man more capable of getting more out of them?  If the answer is yes, then we know the likely outcome.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on December 21, 2019, 08:20:59 PM
The only grain of comfort I had leaving the ground is that we were in this kind of position and worse for a number of seasons before we actually went down. 

Itís not looking good at the moment and is getting worse, but I do think some good signings in January could change things for the better.

In other seasons though, and Im thinking of Lamberts last game v Hull particularly, we had a few players who were comfortably good enough but just not performing. Benteke and Delph come to mind. I look at our midfield, today and all season, and you wonder are any of them capable of getting a grip of things in the middle. Wes from far from our worst today but is nowhere near good enough.

If we dont get results in the next two games we could be cut adrift. A young team and manager could well be sunk at that stage.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 21, 2019, 08:32:08 PM
Anyone who thinks Smith is getting the bullet two weeks after signing a four year contract needs to stop drinking!
Giving him a contract extension was idiotic in the extreme and is the type of thing I didn't think the new owners would be doing - this club never seems to learn - Ellis was criticised for his corner shop mentality - expecting a coach adept at working with the likes of Walsall and Brentford to step up in the Premier League now seems ill thought and a bit naive - I accept others have made the transition but Smith doesn't appear to be as progressive and adaptable as Dyche / Howe for example .
Maybe Purslow had been on the Chiraz when he offered Smith the new contract :)
Time for Purslow to step up to the plate and  find a manager/coach who is up to the job and give him the experienced players on loan or otherwise to keep us in this league - Relegation is unthinkable - not just financially but for the standing of this once mighty football club - it would appear the comparison to Fulham weren't too wide of the mark
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 21, 2019, 08:35:24 PM
Anything less than 3 from the next 3 and I genuinely think the bullet may happen
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 08:36:20 PM
We have no idea what was in the contract and what the get out clauses are. We donít know if after year two for example it ramps up financially because we are a secure PL team. Nor do we know if the club struggles that the exit clauses kick in to allow both parties to get out with an agreed settlement. None of knows what itís in it. What I can absolutely guarantee is that the club knows that whatever it will cost to get out if it pales in comparison the financial disaster that would be relegation. So the contact is nothing more than a number and a fraction of the alternative and far more dreadful consequence of inaction.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 08:36:59 PM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 08:38:24 PM
Anything less than 3 from the next 3 and I genuinely think the bullet may happen
3 wins or 3 points?  If we only get 3 points from 9 he's in big trouble.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 21, 2019, 08:40:54 PM
3 points
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 08:42:19 PM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.

They absolutely wonít. Whatever Dean is on it doesnít even compare to some of the contracts for example Wes Edens has signed in the NBA. These two and even Purslow arenít mugs. They will be considering all of their options tonight. Firing him new contract or not is absolutely one of them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 21, 2019, 08:46:34 PM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.

They absolutely wonít. Whatever Dean is on it doesnít even compare to some of the contracts for example Wes Edens has signed in the NBA. These two and even Purslow arenít mugs. They will be considering all of their options tonight. Firing him new contract or not is absolutely one of them.

I'm sure you're right TV but it has to be said they offered the new contract in the first place.  As you say though, if they're as minted as we're led to believe then it shouldn't matter that much.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on December 21, 2019, 08:52:01 PM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.

They absolutely wonít. Whatever Dean is on it doesnít even compare to some of the contracts for example Wes Edens has signed in the NBA. These two and even Purslow arenít mugs. They will be considering all of their options tonight. Firing him new contract or not is absolutely one of them.

Didn't Edens fire a friend of his who was the Bucks coach at the time? I don't think they'll hesitate at all - I'm just hoping Deano gets this turned around, somehow, before that point. 
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 21, 2019, 09:00:59 PM
His apparent blindness to Big Fucking Wes, and the limitations therein, may well cost him his position very soon. I can see the chop coming before the week is out.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 21, 2019, 09:04:34 PM
All I know about the legitimacy of Wes Edens is that the basketball team he part owns is fucking brilliant. Great coaching hires and brilliant player recruitment. Randy F Lerner he ainít. Iím sure he bought Villa not so they piss around the arse end of the PL or go down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on December 21, 2019, 09:28:21 PM
I hope they act quickly before January.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on December 21, 2019, 09:52:22 PM
Iíve been worried since Crystal Palace hence the thread but for the first time I now think itís probable and not possible that weíll get relegated. Something needs to change and thatís something that has not looked remotely like changing so far, namely the managers formation and personnel.

DS has 2 games against Norwich and Watford to save his job, 6 points required, 4 at the very least or heíll be potted. Whatever happens we need to reinforce in January.

This is where weíll really find out about the owners.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cumbriavilla on December 21, 2019, 10:47:36 PM
With today's loss, I'm thinking that the next two games are now very much 'must win' - anything less and it's the end of the road for Dean.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: phantom limb on December 21, 2019, 10:58:27 PM
Losing the next two games would absolutely screw us though, weíll be right in it. Iím not convinced that weíre suddenly going to bring in some quality players during January either.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: KRS on December 21, 2019, 10:59:00 PM
Iím officially worried. Completely inept on and off the pitch today. Weíre in big relegation trouble unless something changes in January...whether that be new signings or a change in management.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on December 21, 2019, 11:02:23 PM
In danger of falling behind those above us too.  Need two wins just to lift us a couple of places.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 21, 2019, 11:19:33 PM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.

They won't keep him because he's signed a new contract. And they won't keep him because it's expensive to sack him. They'll keep him because 22 days ago they thought he was part of the long term future of the club.

This wasn't a Rodgers at Leicester new contract  No one was going to steal Smith from us. So the only reason to give him a new contract was because they're genuinely committed to him.

They're not going to turn around 3 weeks later and go, "actually, we fucked that up massively, he's gone".

It's looking grim, but I don't think a new manager is part of the short term solution.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT Villan on December 21, 2019, 11:39:12 PM
Yes, I'm worried. I reached the tipping point today.

The nature of the recent losses and the sheer number of games we have lost over the season are appalling. Players that were excellent earlier in the season are under-performing and some that have never performed have somehow managed to get worse.

Sorry Dean, you have a very short time to turn this around and as nice as you are, Villa are bigger than one man and there is little room for sentiment.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on December 21, 2019, 11:45:40 PM
This new contract thing is a red herring. As it at the time of his 1 year anniversary Iím more inclined to think it was part of a pre existing agreement 1 year in. Theyíll also be KPIís and attached clauses should we be on the bottom 3 etc. the new contract wonít save him. The long term vision might but thatíll be an enormous gamble.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AV82EC on December 22, 2019, 12:37:55 AM
I officially moved to the worried camp today.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: itbrvilla on December 22, 2019, 12:51:26 AM
Unless there is significant changes on the management and playe front this week we'll be going down IMO. As to who we get in I don't know. But Purslow needs to review the recruitment strategy as we have most recruited overpriced shit.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: The Left Side on December 22, 2019, 01:07:14 AM
Worried
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: purpletrousers on December 22, 2019, 01:41:54 AM
Sad. And worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 01:43:54 AM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.

They won't keep him because he's signed a new contract. And they won't keep him because it's expensive to sack him. They'll keep him because 22 days ago they thought he was part of the long term future of the club.

This wasn't a Rodgers at Leicester new contract  No one was going to steal Smith from us. So the only reason to give him a new contract was because they're genuinely committed to him.

They're not going to turn around 3 weeks later and go, "actually, we fucked that up massively, he's gone".

It's looking grim, but I don't think a new manager is part of the short term solution.
I would love to know what is then.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 22, 2019, 02:10:19 AM

There is nothing surprising about this result if you have been paying attention to the form of this team and the managers lack of attention to the obvious failing of individuals and the system he has deployed.

This was a devastating result and performance and one we may not recover from.


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on December 22, 2019, 02:17:28 AM
Weíve not recovered since Liverpool truth be told.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: VinnieChase84 on December 22, 2019, 06:46:32 AM
I love Deano and really want him to turn thus around but canít help but sense his stubbornness to try anything different will be what kills him
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: dorsetvillian on December 22, 2019, 07:19:14 AM
At the moment we are playing as badly as anyone in the league. There certainly aren't 3 teams worse than us. We look like a relegation team. With Ming's and Mcginn out with injury, it's hard to see any short term fix.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on December 22, 2019, 08:18:25 AM
Yes, I'm worried. I reached the tipping point today.

The nature of the recent losses and the sheer number of games we have lost over the season are appalling. Players that were excellent earlier in the season are under-performing and some that have never performed have somehow managed to get worse.

Sorry Dean, you have a very short time to turn this around and as nice as you are, Villa are bigger than one man and there is little room for sentiment.

A big thing in any walk of life is confidence, especially in sport. The players look scared apart from Jack. Confidence is shot to pieces and I'm not sure DS can turn this round. He should've signed Maupay and Benrahma not Wesley and Trezeguet.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on December 22, 2019, 08:33:43 AM
Yes, I'm worried. I reached the tipping point today.

The nature of the recent losses and the sheer number of games we have lost over the season are appalling. Players that were excellent earlier in the season are under-performing and some that have never performed have somehow managed to get worse.

Sorry Dean, you have a very short time to turn this around and as nice as you are, Villa are bigger than one man and there is little room for sentiment.

A big thing in any walk of life is confidence, especially in sport. The players look scared apart from Jack. Confidence is shot to pieces and I'm not sure DS can turn this round. He should've signed Maupay and Benrahma not Wesley and Trezeguet.

That's the thing. We were so desperate for a result, but if we'd been unlucky, robbed by the ref or VAR et , I could just about accept that.

The fact we just caved in, collapsed, and showed no spine at all is THE concern now. Who's to say Norwich won't do exactly the same to us on Boxing Day.

Whoever is picked better start that game on the front foot, or it will be a long excruciating game.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sdwbvf on December 22, 2019, 08:50:14 AM
Officially worried now. I have got through the last month with tough teams but we need 9 from 9 over Christmas. I checked the score at 3.40 yesterday and swore.

Ah well this is how it always is with the Villa! We really need the next six points otherwise championship here we come. I was looking for a game to go to in the second half of the season and realised they were almost all grade A games, that fills me with dread!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ez on December 22, 2019, 08:55:11 AM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.

They won't keep him because he's signed a new contract. And they won't keep him because it's expensive to sack him. They'll keep him because 22 days ago they thought he was part of the long term future of the club.

This wasn't a Rodgers at Leicester new contract  No one was going to steal Smith from us. So the only reason to give him a new contract was because they're genuinely committed to him.

They're not going to turn around 3 weeks later and go, "actually, we fucked that up massively, he's gone".

It's looking grim, but I don't think a new manager is part of the short term solution.

I cant believe the owners are so committed to Smith that they will take relegation to honour this new contract.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 22, 2019, 09:00:48 AM
Neither can I.  They haven't got to be as rich and successful as they are by being that stupid.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villafirst on December 22, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
Far too hasty handing DS a 4 year contract. Perhaps at the end of the season if we stayed up. I think they'll be writing a hefty compensation cheque soon....
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ad@m on December 22, 2019, 09:29:41 AM
I'd hate to think the owners might keep Smith on purely because he's just signed a new contract.  I'd be surprised if they did that.  If / when the time comes that they no longer believe he's the right man he should go then, new contract or not.

They won't keep him because he's signed a new contract. And they won't keep him because it's expensive to sack him. They'll keep him because 22 days ago they thought he was part of the long term future of the club.

This wasn't a Rodgers at Leicester new contract  No one was going to steal Smith from us. So the only reason to give him a new contract was because they're genuinely committed to him.

They're not going to turn around 3 weeks later and go, "actually, we fucked that up massively, he's gone".

It's looking grim, but I don't think a new manager is part of the short term solution.

I cant believe the owners are so committed to Smith that they will take relegation to honour this new contract.

Honestly, try reading my post again if that's what you think I said.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 22, 2019, 09:34:25 AM
Very much so. Deanís inability to change stuff will kill us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: The Edge on December 22, 2019, 10:00:10 AM
I officially moved to the worried camp today.
Me too. Shove over.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on December 22, 2019, 10:03:34 AM
Does anyone have a copy of the Villa badge torn asunder? Asking for a friend in Midlands journalism.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: The Edge on December 22, 2019, 10:08:12 AM
Very much so. Deanís inability to change stuff will kill us.
There was a Brentford fan who posted (i think it was on h&v) He wished Dean all the best and thanked him for everything he did at their club. However the one thing he did say that is now becoming painfully obvious is exacty that. He either can't or won't change things during a match and seems to get out thought by the opposition. He has got to change this. He's got to learn to have a plan B up his sleeve otherwise i'm afraid he'll be toast before this season ends.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clark W Griswold on December 22, 2019, 10:08:16 AM
I officially moved to the worried camp today.
Me too. Shove over.

Room for another one?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithe on December 22, 2019, 10:18:12 AM
Itís becoming obvious that we have bought players who show promise and can at times look like they belong at this level, but we donít have enough of them and end up playing with too many players out of form, this then morphs into confidence plummeting and we play painfully slow, ponderous, safe football. The higher quality, better conditioned opposition get into their defensive positions quickly and easily and we look lost going forward. At the back, we need a defensive boot camp, yesterday was amateur hour.

We need new players, I worry that they will have to come in from abroad into a relegation battle and thatís far from ideal.

If we an get some belief back, all is far from lost.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on December 22, 2019, 10:26:52 AM
Weíve looked pretty decent at times this season but we are not improving and are actually getting worse which for me is the most worrying thing of all
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on December 22, 2019, 10:47:43 AM
Very much so. Deanís inability to change stuff will kill us.
There was a Brentford fan who posted (i think it was on h&v) He wished Dean all the best and thanked him for everything he did at their club. However the one thing he did say that is now becoming painfully obvious is exacty that. He either can't or won't change things during a match and seems to get out thought by the opposition. He has got to change this. He's got to learn to have a plan B up his sleeve otherwise i'm afraid he'll be toast before this season ends.

Which was my worry when his name was first touted to replace Bruce in summer 2018. Whilst he did well at Brentford and they were always top half of the table They never threatened to get in the play-offs or get promoted as I recall. So not really great track record

Leicester Was the game when I started getting worried as it was poor tactically and an abject surrender from the team.There have simply been to many games like yesterday where we just havenít turned up.

Smith hasnít been helped by some of the signings we made which I suspect he didnít 100% approve
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: eamonn on December 22, 2019, 10:56:16 AM
I officially moved to the worried camp today.
Me too. Shove over.

Room for another one?

How big is your bum?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: andyh on December 22, 2019, 11:01:22 AM
If they canít/donít want to sack smith, what about Big Sam being brought in as DoF or something, just to get some bloody experience in the club?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 22, 2019, 02:20:20 PM
If they canít/donít want to sack smith, what about Big Sam being brought in as DoF or something, just to get some bloody experience in the club?

Jesus Christ no.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ez on December 22, 2019, 03:35:47 PM
I can't get that photo of Grealish flat out on the pitch at the end of the game out of my mind. He so wants to be a success with us and not someone else.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: achilles on December 22, 2019, 03:35:53 PM
Watford beating Man Ure at home now, bloody hell we seem doomed!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sdwbvf on December 23, 2019, 12:13:46 AM
I have to say, worried or not, the spectre of Big Sam being rolled out by some on here worries me more. He will do nothing for us, he is s spent force, if he rolls through the gates I probably would give games a miss for a while. It would make bruceball look like Messi and Bale!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on December 23, 2019, 12:57:09 AM
I have to say, worried or not, the spectre of Big Sam being rolled out by some on here worries me more. He will do nothing for us, he is s spent force, if he rolls through the gates I probably would give games a miss for a while. It would make bruceball look like Messi and Bale!

A resounding 'no' to Allardyce. In any shape or form.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ROBBO on December 23, 2019, 01:47:22 AM
I am trying to understand the logic of playing a high line with a snail pace centre half against a very pacey forward line, that's two games Leicester and Southampton where his tactics were woeful.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on December 23, 2019, 02:44:37 AM
This is why Iíve pretty much lost faith in DS. Itís not like itís small margins costing us either itís errors so basic that a Sunday pub team would be embarrassed. Look at the capitulation against Arsenal, the marking at set pieces where on several occasions heís openly admitted we got these wrong due to poor communication, the lack of possession in virtually every game we play, the consistently dreadful way we start 2nd halves, the stubborn persistence with 4-4-3 and belatedly poor use of substitutions.

People have a crack at Wesley for not getting up to speed but our poorest performer so far this season has been Dean Smith imo. Heís 2 games to save his job, I hope he still can but the time for excuses and learning from mistakes has passed.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: gpbarr on December 23, 2019, 12:49:00 PM
This is why Iíve pretty much lost faith in DS. Itís not like itís small margins costing us either itís errors so basic that a Sunday pub team would be embarrassed. Look at the capitulation against Arsenal, the marking at set pieces where on several occasions heís openly admitted we got these wrong due to poor communication, the lack of possession in virtually every game we play, the consistently dreadful way we start 2nd halves, the stubborn persistence with 4-4-3 and belatedly poor use of substitutions.

People have a crack at Wesley for not getting up to speed but our poorest performer so far this season has been Dean Smith imo. Heís 2 games to save his job, I hope he still can but the time for excuses and learning from mistakes has passed.

This. Sums it up for me. If Dean rolls out the same team and same approach on Boxing Day, he will be toast
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: wince on December 23, 2019, 01:23:16 PM
Thing is we have all been guilty of expectations being higher than our ability. We have some genuine talent on the pitch but as a team it isnít gelling and by the time we do gel I fear it is too late. I believe the side has the makings of a good side but it is one that maybe needed a season in the championship to gel. Our financial position then and now means that it wasnít an option but coming up when we did and with huge chunks of the play off final team no longer here has affected us, massively. The we are a big club bollocks hasnít helped as since our absence there is s new order in the prem. Changing managers every 5 minutes is only a short term effect and only creates a viscous circle. I donít think smith is the right manager for us at the moment but to drop him now will again only potentially give us a short term managers boost. He has been found out at this level and the coaching staff need to be proactive not reactive. Any reactive changes need to be done quickly as we have massively been found out. I got ripped apart when I said this run of form was typically dean smith as it happened with Brentford and with us (comparisons were made and consensus was we arent in championship anymore) but this win or lose will be dangerous as results need to be ground out at times. More than anything the lambert years are back with no ball retention a hell bent for leather first minutes and then shitting ourselves defending a 1 nil lead. Then we did have a striker who could score. The lack of striking power is pathetic and we might as well play 10 men but also Wesley needs service. At the moment just like the lambert years the service is patchy or non existent.

If Iím honest we are crocked this season unless the team and coaches step up and wake up to the situation and focus on tactics that work rather than slavishly adopting a system of 433 that is clearly not working. The teams around us are hitting form. To close the gaps itís now or never but I just think our heads have dropped and where we are lacking is leaders on and off the pitch.

Sorry for the ranting.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 23, 2019, 01:25:21 PM
I think we have come to the point where we need to close this thread and start a new one asking if anyone is NOT starting to get worried. Although at the moment it would almost certainly be a short lived thread.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on December 23, 2019, 01:33:02 PM
After the next five league games we will either be happy, suicidal or somewhere in between.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 23, 2019, 01:36:20 PM
Good post Wince.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mallo on December 23, 2019, 01:51:39 PM
I'm definitely worried. When the players stop running and hide then it's the beginning of the end. Having seen it several times now. Maybe there will be a good reaction for the Norwich game, but I suspect morale is flat.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 23, 2019, 01:56:18 PM
I'm definitely worried. When the players stop running and hide then it's the beginning of the end. Having seen it several times now. Maybe there will be a good reaction for the Norwich game, but I suspect morale is flat.
Can you imagine VP if Norwich score first?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 23, 2019, 01:56:30 PM
Seconded, good post Wince
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: wince on December 23, 2019, 02:19:28 PM
Cheers lads. I am not as astute on tactics as some but surely a 352 would be better. Iím having a break from caring at moment as wont let football get in the way of Christmas. But letís get behind the villa and hope we survive and get our mojo back
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 04:47:13 PM
Nice one Wince ......I'm no longer worried, just resigned
Going into the season without at least two recognised/experienced strikers was naive at best .....fucking stupid more like
If the club fail to act now then I guess they too are resigned to going back down or are placing blind faith in Smith come what may - hence the contract renewal
If Smith is integral to the "plan" and therefore the future of the club I suggest it will competing against the likes of Rotherham and Wigan rather than Liverpool or Citeh .... over the top reaction? Maybe ,but I am extremely disappointed  that the euphoria,goodwill  and momentum generated at Wembley, and after,will be lost ........we need to behave like a big club if we are to be taken seriously - that starts with the appointment of a manager who can manage a big club
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 04:59:03 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 05:23:09 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.
ouch ....that's  the  reality and it  hurts :(
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 23, 2019, 05:24:38 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.

Yeah, I just didn't realise how established the "established teams" are. It's going to take a lot of effort, from all elements of this club, to stay in this division
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 05:27:49 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.
ouch ....that's  the  reality and it  hurts :(

It does.

But it's true that we need a project, a plan, and to stick with it through tough times as well as the good.

We were 17th in the Championship a year ago with a load of loan players (the good ones) and old players who were all due to leave. It's a miracle we got promoted to be honest.

We're on the way, just slowly this season. 2 or 3 decent signings and we'll be ok, I really believe it. However, there is certainly a twitchiness there!!!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 05:52:58 PM
It's the harsh reality that gets to you ......currently we are not able to beat teams like  Southampton, Sheffield Utd and Bournemouth
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 05:59:47 PM
It's the harsh reality that gets to you ......currently we are not able to beat teams like  Southampton, Sheffield Utd and Bournemouth

Out of that lot, the South coast sides ahve been in the top division, safely for years. Sheffield United have a good manager, a stable squad and have built together.

We've just put a bunch of players together not 6 months ago and we should have no expectation of beating anyone. It's shit but it's the truth.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 06:18:54 PM
Fair comment ......you are right it is shit
For the likes of  me I can say " I've  seen it all before"
It's my lad and his generation I feel for - he was so upbeat after Wembley and was able to hold his head up living up here
Now the Redshite are on the march again ( we didn't overcelebrate  the  cup win ) and Everton are thinking big
Villa have this knack of bringing us down to earth :(
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on December 23, 2019, 06:23:50 PM
Itís a bad bad situation but I have to believe that our owners must appreciate how damaging it would be for us to be relegated and will do all they can to make sure it doesnít happen.

But maybe Iím deluded. Weíll see.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ktvillan on December 23, 2019, 06:34:04 PM
I wasn't too worried up to recently because we were generally playing well and had been unlucky with VAR and ref decisions which had costs us a few deserved points. 

I'm worried now, almost resigned.  From about the Wolves game we seem to have gone rapidly downhill (apart from Man Yoo), we don't seem to press, there's little movement, the defence is leaky, the attack shot shy, the midfield is neither covering the defence or providing chances, we're poor in possession and worse without the ball, we're slow all over the pitch and we've got players hiding or going missing.  And Smith shows no sign of knowing how to fix any of it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 23, 2019, 06:51:51 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.
ouch ....that's  the  reality and it  hurts :(

It does.

But it's true that we need a project, a plan, and to stick with it through tough times as well as the good.

We were 17th in the Championship a year ago with a load of loan players (the good ones) and old players who were all due to leave. It's a miracle we got promoted to be honest.

We're on the way, just slowly this season. 2 or 3 decent signings and we'll be ok, I really believe it. However, there is certainly a twitchiness there!!!

Sticking with a bad plan is just idiocy though.  It's becomingly increasingly clear that Smith is a Championship level manager with only one way of playing.  His tactics are poor, and his game management really naive.  It's Paul Lambert all over again.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 23, 2019, 07:26:42 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.

Yeah, I just didn't realise how established the "established teams" are. It's going to take a lot of effort, from all elements of this club, to stay in this division

Most of the established teams have been s*** this season. This is arguably the worst Arsenal and Man. United teams for decades. Spurs were poor and remain hit and miss under Mourinho. Chelsea been better but also inconsistant. You compare those four to their teams when we were trying to get top 4 under MON and there's a huge difference.

Ultimately given all the points they've donated to our relegation rivals so far this season we're going to have to beat a couple of them at VP to stay up imo and from his tactics I don't think DS will be capable of that.

This year has been a freak season. Last year the standard in  the bottom half was really poor, you had Huddersfield and Fulham pretty much relegated at xmas and Cardiff were much poorer than all the sides we're trying to finish above in that area.

I still reckon we'll stay up although I concede it will probably have to mean a managerial change which for me isn't ideal as DS is a manager I've really got behind.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on December 23, 2019, 07:50:32 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.
ouch ....that's  the  reality and it  hurts :(

It does.

But it's true that we need a project, a plan, and to stick with it through tough times as well as the good.

We were 17th in the Championship a year ago with a load of loan players (the good ones) and old players who were all due to leave. It's a miracle we got promoted to be honest.

We're on the way, just slowly this season. 2 or 3 decent signings and we'll be ok, I really believe it. However, there is certainly a twitchiness there!!!

Sticking with a bad plan is just idiocy though.  It's becomingly increasingly clear that Smith is a Championship level manager with only one way of playing.  His tactics are poor, and his game management really naive.  It's Paul Lambert all over again.
Nail on head there Risso - he too is beginning  to remind me of Lambert
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Newby on December 23, 2019, 08:34:08 PM
I think our position, and the spending to even be there shows just how far behind we are following years of neglect. It's going to take an awful lot more money and time to get us competing.
ouch ....that's  the  reality and it  hurts :(

It does.

But it's true that we need a project, a plan, and to stick with it through tough times as well as the good.

We were 17th in the Championship a year ago with a load of loan players (the good ones) and old players who were all due to leave. It's a miracle we got promoted to be honest.

We're on the way, just slowly this season. 2 or 3 decent signings and we'll be ok, I really believe it. However, there is certainly a twitchiness there!!!

Sticking with a bad plan is just idiocy though.  It's becomingly increasingly clear that Smith is a Championship level manager with only one way of playing.  His tactics are poor, and his game management really naive.  It's Paul Lambert all over again.
Nail on head there Risso - he too is beginning  to remind me of Lambert

And it now looks like they are going to spend their way out of trouble in January. Massive gamble.  If they eventually sack him, we are back to square one with another load of players that the next bloke won't want.  I hope they know what they are doing!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 23, 2019, 10:38:23 PM
That's the thing though, we're trying a system and way of playing and the next manager would be expected to play a similar way...
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: pauliewalnuts on December 23, 2019, 10:41:28 PM
Sheffield United were in an even bigger mess than us not so long ago and they seem to be doing alright.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 24, 2019, 01:37:43 AM
I drove back home from London tonight and listened to the Monday night football thing on 5 Live.

Discussing us, Micah Richards said he thinks we will stay up but injuries have hit us hard. Bigged up Jack massively. He seems to have watched a lot of our games this season and reckons we have concentration issues rather than a major weakness ( I think he is wrong on that. Darren Fletcher was on too, and he said Grealish is one of the best ball carriers he has ever played against. Both of them and Rory Ketland Jones (sp?) said that adding an end product has made a massive difference to his game.Jones actually made the valid point that Grealish and Maddison are different players - the ball carrier and the short, zippy pass and move merchant. I canít believe more people outside Villa Park havenít noticed this when comparing them.

A valid discussion ensued, started by Fletcher I think, about leaving ourselves too open. Two full backs bombing on with no defensive midfielder filling in is suicide. He says the way to beat us is to suck us in and hit us on the counter with a 2 v 2 scenario. Leicester and Southampton being recent examples of this. He also said we donít seem to have a player who is suited to the defensive midfielder role. He reckons we should be more pragmatic and sacrifice some style for solidity. If only....

Richards said that the key for Jack to create is to play higher up the pitch, and that was a recurring message at Bodymoor Heath. Stay out of your own half, basically. All three reckoned he would be good enough for a team at the top end of the table.

As an aside I like Fletcher as a pundit. I thought he was underrated as a player and he seems intelligent and pretty articulate. I have no idea how the BBC thought that Clinton Morrison could fulfil a similar role for them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on December 24, 2019, 06:27:25 AM
That's the thing though, we're trying a system and way of playing and the next manager would be expected to play a similar way...

ďSorry Poch, unless youíre prepared to stick rigidly to the previous managerís 4-3-3 thatís served us so well, thereís no deal.Ē 😉
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 24, 2019, 12:45:04 PM
That's the thing though, we're trying a system and way of playing and the next manager would be expected to play a similar way...
I hope they're not thinking that.  It's the tail wagging the dog.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 24, 2019, 12:50:34 PM
Pat, I think they summed it up. No midfielder able to protect the back 4 and none of them seem to want to play that role. I think the 3 in the middle makes the situation worse as there is no definitive role for any of them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 24, 2019, 12:52:14 PM
That's the thing though, we're trying a system and way of playing and the next manager would be expected to play a similar way...

ďSorry Poch, unless youíre prepared to stick rigidly to the previous managerís 4-3-3 thatís served us so well, thereís no deal.Ē 😉
oh yeh, and you are not allowed to make substitutions until the opposition have scored in the second half.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: TelfordVilla on December 24, 2019, 01:15:34 PM
[quote author=Pat McMahon 

As an aside I like Fletcher as a pundit. I thought he was underrated as a player and he seems intelligent and pretty articulate. I have no idea how the BBC thought that Clinton Morrison could fulfil a similar role for them.
[/quote]    I said the same about Morrison, how can he even apply for a job that requires him to speak, and who the hell appointed him.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on December 24, 2019, 02:19:51 PM
That's the thing though, we're trying a system and way of playing and the next manager would be expected to play a similar way...

ďSorry Poch, unless youíre prepared to stick rigidly to the previous managerís 4-3-3 thatís served us so well, thereís no deal.Ē 😉

He wouldn't come to us. Not until the summer at least.

We need a style and approach. We've chopped and changed so many times its ridiculous. You want to tear it up and start all over again? And what happens when we lose 3 under the next manager? Change it again?

Smith may not be the long term answer. Though I dearly hope he is. There have been plenty of examples of us playing well. Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton, Norwich... And plenty of bad ones too. The question really is about which is the more likely? At the moment, in the midst of a really bad run, it's easy to plump for the latter. When we're doing well, the former.

He's been here a year so far. And has moved us 20 places up the league ladder into the toughest division in the world. Arguably we'd have been better off still down there, growing an identity and system that we could bring up, like Sheff Utd and Wolves did.

It's tough and I don't think we should twist yet.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: hilts_coolerking on December 24, 2019, 02:43:05 PM
The thing is over the last decade or so - since O'Neill probably - the one thing we haven't done is absolutely push the boat out to get a manager who is somewhere approaching the top of the game.  We may have tried, I don't know, but we haven't succeeded.  If it comes to replacing Smith, that's what I think we should do.  It's the single most influential post at the club.  You look at the list of the no marks who have managed us since O'Neill left us in the lurch (jury still out on Smith) and it makes me cringe.  The problem is not that we've appointed a lot of managers; we've had no choice but to because we've kept appointing shit ones.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: gpbarr on December 24, 2019, 04:12:23 PM
Last year 35 pts was enough to stay up but looking at this years table, it will be 40 IMO. Thatís 25 pts we need from 18 games or more pertinently a return of 60% greater than we were able in the first 18 games.

Honestly I donít see it - if we donít beat Norwich and start that climb then we are in a world of trouble.

Yes worried
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Davkaus on December 24, 2019, 04:18:25 PM
Point of order, if you're correct about 40 points, it's 25 points from 20 games, not 18, or an improvement of about 30%. A big job, to be sure, but not out of reach if we recruit wisely in January and start putting some results together.

I suspect though, that come May, we'll look back at the Southampton game as the point at which a lot of us knew it was going wrong.  I just don't see us turning it around and won't be surprised if we're bottom by NYD.

Boxing Day is absolutely key, IMO. I won't be confident we're staying up if we win,. but I'll be certain we're going down if we don't. Sadly, I expect a comfortable win for Norwich.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: vilan461 on December 24, 2019, 04:20:55 PM
Must confess after that absymal showing against Saints and with 4 League defeats in a row, i am getting a little bit jittery---admittedly there is a good way to go and time for improvement--but confidence seems rock bottom we must start to win games BEGINNING with Boxng Day!!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Pat McMahon on December 24, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
[quote author=Pat McMahon 

As an aside I like Fletcher as a pundit. I thought he was underrated as a player and he seems intelligent and pretty articulate. I have no idea how the BBC thought that Clinton Morrison could fulfil a similar role for them.
    I said the same about Morrison, how can he even apply for a job that requires him to speak, and who the hell appointed him.
[/quote]

On Sunday he referred to a manager saying ďhe is good at speaking and that sort of thingĒ :)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 25, 2019, 12:50:05 AM
Pat, I think they summed it up. No midfielder able to protect the back 4 and none of them seem to want to play that role. I think the 3 in the middle makes the situation worse as there is no definitive role for any of them.

We probably need two holding midfielders and have done for sometime.  I like Marvellous but he is getting pulled everywhere and overwhelmed in games.  Hourihane and Lansbury aren't going to cut it in the top flight in that kind of role and Luiz is struggling with the pace of the game.

We desperately need someone with a bit of experience and quality to come in and sit in midfield alongside Nakamba and with McGinn out, move Grealish into a more central role in front of them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 25, 2019, 06:57:04 AM
I think the major problem is the midfield arenít actually doing anything of use. They neither shield the defence, nor do they create anything or set the pace of the game.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AlexAlexCropley on December 25, 2019, 09:26:48 AM
I think the major problem is the midfield arenít actually doing anything of use. They neither shield the defence, nor do they create anything or set the pace of the game.
This
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 26, 2019, 12:45:18 PM
There's just a giant hole where midfield should be.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 26, 2019, 12:53:55 PM
Quite right, unless he solves the midfield problem from a defensive perspective, any changes he makes is shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: KRS on December 26, 2019, 03:54:10 PM
After showing early promise, it turns out that most of our business in the summer was shite, and weíve spent well over £100m on players that simply arenít good enough...

Wes
Trez
AEG
Targett
Marv
Luiz
Jota

...with question marks over Engels and Konsa.

Whether itís the players or the management team, itís like history is repeating itself.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Demitri_C on December 26, 2019, 03:59:01 PM
I think wes trez and aeg havent been good signings tj be hinest. Jota has been injured so unfair on hik just yet.

I think luiz marevllous engels and konsa have been goid signings.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 26, 2019, 04:10:19 PM
Nakamba is a fucking liabilityís
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 26, 2019, 05:08:29 PM
We've bought some absolute shite in the summer, we need a midfielder a striker and a winger absolute bare minimum if we are to stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: AsTallAsLions on December 26, 2019, 05:12:29 PM
Almost as worrying as our lack of footballing ability is the teams around us and the form they're currently hitting. Fucking Southampton beating Chelsea 2-0 away from home like. What the fuck is that about. Pricks.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 26, 2019, 05:16:35 PM
We need another 20 points to stay up imo.

Going to be a tough ask. Lots of tough home games left. Bar Man. City we simply can't write off any home games left. Need to show some balls and go out and beat some of the teams we never beat anymore, Arsenal, Spurs and Man. United. Other teams around us don't seem to have much issue beating them or Chelsea.

2-3 away wins would help aswell. Think the next two games will say more about our survivial prospects than today. 3 points today has just about stopped us drowning for now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sdwbvf on December 27, 2019, 09:16:35 PM
Man city are beatable. Need to get the goal difference up before Anfield though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 27, 2019, 09:48:13 PM
As much as people give stick to our summer business you only have to look at Adama on a weekly basis now to see a bit of patience with young players is needed on occasions. Guy is now one of the best wide attackers in the league.

Not saying Trez is going to hit those heights but given he's scored a few goals while settling in he does have some talent and I'd say the same for likes of Douglas Luiz who shows glimmers of a very good central midfield player but obviously lacks consistancy at this stage.

What we need to do is provide 3-4 ready made top level players for these guys to learn off in the next few windows. If we can't get them in January, hopefully we'll sign well enough to stay up and we can target again in the summer.

Don't get people dismissing likes of Giroud or Pedro as January options. Guess there's nothing a 65 cap Spanish international and someone who played 200 times for Barca can teach Trez I guess.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 27, 2019, 11:06:04 PM
Villa  need 4 more wins and 6 draws
To get 36 points in remaining 19 matches

Firstly let's take the  fixtures at home  .
9 remaining ,and in order of difficulty .
This is based on table away form since season start. Easier matches first.

Watford
Spurs
Man Utd
Arsenal
Palace
Wolves
Sheffield Utd
Chelsea
Man city

Away fixtures
These based on difficulty from the home form table

Watford
Southampton
West ham
Bournemouth
Brighton
Burnley
Newcastle
Everton
Leicester
Liverpool
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 27, 2019, 11:22:52 PM
We have blown so many of our easier Home games, our away games look easier except we have the worst away record in the league ( except Norwich).
We need at least 5 wins.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: robbo1874 on December 28, 2019, 12:38:38 AM
There's just a giant hole where midfield should be.
mainly a McGinn shaped hole. Does anybody know how much longer he is likely to be out for? Along with Jack, heís obviously one of our most influential players when heís on form. He did look like he needed a rest after the last international round of matches, but I think our form will improve when he comes back in (hopefully soon).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: adrenachrome on December 28, 2019, 12:47:47 AM
There's just a giant hole where midfield should be.
mainly a McGinn shaped hole. Does anybody know how much longer he is likely to be out for? Along with Jack, heís obviously one of our most influential players when heís on form. He did look like he needed a rest after the last international round of matches, but I think our form will improve when he comes back in (hopefully soon).

He is out for 3 months my most accounts.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: robbo1874 on December 28, 2019, 01:05:37 AM
There's just a giant hole where midfield should be.
mainly a McGinn shaped hole. Does anybody know how much longer he is likely to be out for? Along with Jack, heís obviously one of our most influential players when heís on form. He did look like he needed a rest after the last international round of matches, but I think our form will improve when he comes back in (hopefully soon).

He is out for 3 months my most accounts.
yes - just read on Pravda, he has fractured his ankle. Thatís a fker. Oh well he should be back to help our push for top 4 at the end of the season!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 03:05:34 AM
The problem with a lack of midfield cover was evident with SJM  playing.
I also think that he has had a lot of criticism but I think he has been giving all of his energy trying to cover defensively. The flat 3 midfield has not worked for sometime now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sexual Ealing on December 28, 2019, 03:53:41 AM
If anyone is really starting to worry, I can recommend putting the following into the YouTube search box: "Aston Villa Sweet Caroline Wembley". It's excellent for the soul. We've got this.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Footy-Vill on December 28, 2019, 02:08:45 PM
The last time 40+ PTS was needed to stay up was in 2010/11 and before that was in 2002/03 43pts and clubs  only needed 4 times in 25 seasons to reach 40+ points other years being
96/97 41 pts
97/98 41 pts


Minimum number of points needed to stay up
11/12 37pts
12/13 37pts
13/14 34pts
14/15 36pts
15/16 38pts
16/17 35pts
17/18 34pts
18/19 35pts

For me 36 -38 PTS max to stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on December 28, 2019, 02:11:42 PM
I am after seeing the team v Watford I am
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 28, 2019, 03:50:26 PM
Fuck it. Yes.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: curiousorange on December 28, 2019, 03:52:15 PM
I was worried half a dozen games ago. Now I'm convinced we'll be relegated.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on December 28, 2019, 03:53:14 PM
Me, too. Completely. It's taken until that first half to get to the completely stage.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 03:55:18 PM
Beyond worry to despondency.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: aev on December 28, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
Too many players brought in with little or no experience of top flight football in England.

I think Wesley, Nakamba and Luiz may well be ok given time but we don't have time.

I find it maddening.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on December 28, 2019, 04:00:08 PM
The foreign players are always a risk so you need a balance with some prem based experience. However, we should have known everything about Targett. Southampton fans were pissing themselves over the £17m. Crazy
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: N'ZMAV on December 28, 2019, 04:03:29 PM
shitting my pants now
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on December 28, 2019, 04:04:53 PM
Lose today, with Burnley and Man City coming up, we'll be adrift before we can get any new players in and settled.

We don't honestly look like we have the fighting spirit in the squad to stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Toronto Villa on December 28, 2019, 04:11:02 PM
Keep Dean Smith and we will go down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 04:27:56 PM
Keep Dean Smith and we will go down.
Too late we are done
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 04:37:27 PM
Weíre toast. We look far and away the worst team in the league.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: levico on December 28, 2019, 04:55:03 PM
Weíre gone.

Any change from that would be a massive bonus. We are now officially a doomed joke.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SteveN on December 28, 2019, 05:03:55 PM
Very little hope now.....bollocks, complete and utter bollocks.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: TonyD on December 28, 2019, 05:07:37 PM
We need swift action from the owners to save us.  We will see.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
It is very clear that there is something fundamentally wrong. The lack of a tactical idea is one thing, but the absolute lack of effort/energy is abysmal.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mallo on December 28, 2019, 05:18:05 PM
I think weíre gone. Itís got too bad and the rot is too deep. Itís going to be a painful 2020. Unless we buy a stonking striker and midfielder in the window there is just the slow slide back into the championship.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 05:21:30 PM
Since the first Vardy goal in Leicester game we've looked a proper relegation side, championship 11 masquerading in the top division.

Hard to believe the Man. United performance was less than a month ago. We look proper bobbins atm. Even the Norwich win we were very lucky to win given the chances we gave them and we spectacularly failed to back up that win today.

We're not good enough. The worry I have is we won't make the managerial change at the right time just like in 15/16. Back then we let Sherwood have countless six pointers and we failed to win any of them.

Remi Garde started with a home game v Man. City. Didn't win that and then got thrashed in a difficult away game at Everton so we simply couldn't get new manager bounce.

We let Dean go after Burnley and the next game is Man. City at home and then Brighton away who comfortably beat Bournemouth at home.

Ultimately though we do little bar sign some more lower level projects and we'll struggle to win more than three more games this season and will go down by quite a distance.

At least a new manager would give us a chance of 5-6 wins and that could well be enough. We need to stay up. I can't understand anyone who'd be happy to just go down and be back to being a big fish in a small pond.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Scovilla on December 28, 2019, 05:32:54 PM
Lost for words. Not worried any more cos worried implies there is still little hope. I just can' see any. Really sad today.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on December 28, 2019, 05:37:08 PM
We're not doomed at all, considering how shit we've been recently we're only 2 points from safety with 18 games to go. If we'd beaten Saints we'd be 15th, that's how small the margins are so i'm not waving the white flag yet.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on December 28, 2019, 05:38:37 PM
If we continue to perform as we have we are toast.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: German James on December 28, 2019, 05:40:25 PM
I can't understand anyone who'd be happy to just go down and be back to being a big fish in a small pond.
If there was even a slight chance of us competing properly at this level (I don't mean getting into Europe; I'd settle for a few years of mid-table mediocrity or, at least, not needing a miracle to avoid relegation), I'd be as ecstatic as the next fan. However, there's nothing I've seen - apart from a few flashes - that make me think we can with this set-up. I want Smith gone; top-level players brought in and for Villa to stay up but, if that doesn't happen, going back down and playing at the right level for squad and manager would be a relief, to be honest. At least I'd enjoy it more than I do the current cockwash on offer.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: West Derby Villan on December 28, 2019, 05:43:08 PM
Yes (reluctantly)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 05:45:13 PM
I can't understand anyone who'd be happy to just go down and be back to being a big fish in a small pond.
If there was even a slight chance of us competing properly at this level (I don't mean getting into Europe; I'd settle for a few years of mid-table mediocrity or, at least, not needing a miracle to avoid relegation), I'd be as ecstatic as the next fan. However, there's nothing I've seen - apart from a few flashes - that make me think we can with this set-up. I want Smith gone; top-level players brought in and for Villa to stay up but, if that doesn't happen, going back down and playing at the right level for squad and manager would be a relief, to be honest. At least I'd enjoy it more than I do the current cockwash on offer.

We just need to sign better.

I don't mind young promising players but 2-3 at the most, there has to be a balance and I'm staggered we've gone down the same route as in summer 2015. The result is a bit better but we're still in the bottom 3.

As I've said many times Wolves is a template. We need to swallow our pride and look at how they've done things. Signed young players like Neves and Adama but also proven quality like Joao Moutinho.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 05:49:42 PM
Norwich winning. We'll be bottom by end of January.

Leicester also missed a penalty v West Ham (Fabianski saves on his return) and they've put out a really weak 11.

Even when we were doing o.k it seems results from elsewhere have gone against us all season.

At the moment we're nowhere near good enough to stop up whatever else happens.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 05:50:29 PM
To top if off norwich are winning. We are gone. We only have ourselves to blame.

Grealish mcginn and mjngs will all go
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villan82 on December 28, 2019, 05:52:20 PM
We have time, we are not cut adrift. But we must sack Smith immediately. A new manager could get us to safety. Smith will relegate us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Scovilla on December 28, 2019, 06:00:23 PM
Norwhich are showing something. They are playing together.
We haven't done anything like this since man united. Something has to be done. Bring in players for sure. Sacking Smith maybe. I'd be sorry for him because i like him but if it needs doing ...
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Demitri_C on December 28, 2019, 06:04:01 PM
Oh look norwixh beatings spurs 2-0
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Taylor on December 28, 2019, 06:06:12 PM
Norwhich are showing something. They are playing together.
We haven't done anything like this since man united. Something has to be done. Bring in players for sure. Sacking Smith maybe. I'd be sorry for him because i like him but if it needs doing ...
I wonder if the Norwich fans were calling for the managers head when they lost a few games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on December 28, 2019, 06:07:38 PM
Norwhich are showing something. They are playing together.
We haven't done anything like this since man united. Something has to be done. Bring in players for sure. Sacking Smith maybe. I'd be sorry for him because i like him but if it needs doing ...
I wonder if the Norwich fans were calling for the managers head when they lost a few games.

They were at the start of last season
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 28, 2019, 06:09:29 PM
Oh look norwixh beatings spurs 2-0

1-0 an armpit hair was offside according to VAR.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mike on December 28, 2019, 06:11:00 PM
Iím not so much worried as resigned. The only positive is thereís half a season left... but Iím struggling to see how thatís going to help us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on December 28, 2019, 06:11:49 PM
Oh look norwixh beatings spurs 2-0

1-0 an armpit hair was offside according to VAR.

Nah it was a stray beard hair. If only he had trimmed it this morning
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Nii Lamptey on December 28, 2019, 06:16:17 PM
Norwhich are showing something. They are playing together.
We haven't done anything like this since man united. Something has to be done. Bring in players for sure. Sacking Smith maybe. I'd be sorry for him because i like him but if it needs doing ...
I wonder if the Norwich fans were calling for the managers head when they lost a few games.
In all fairness, Norwich are not Aston Villa. And anyway, could you see Farke consistently playing a player of Grealish's talent out of position on the left wing, and/or sticking with Wesley up front every game? No. Me neither.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 28, 2019, 06:19:25 PM
Starting to get worried? Christ...beyond worried, it's happening and we are fecking awful. Awful and all this if Deano did this, if we beat Southampton, if we didn't lose Mings...if if if. If nothing changes we're down, and only a fool can't see that. It's happening once again that we sleepwalk to relegation. We learn nothing at the Villa, nothing.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 28, 2019, 06:20:31 PM
Norwhich are showing something. They are playing together.
We haven't done anything like this since man united. Something has to be done. Bring in players for sure. Sacking Smith maybe. I'd be sorry for him because i like him but if it needs doing ...
I wonder if the Norwich fans were calling for the managers head when they lost a few games.

Ultimately they spent very little compared to us in the summer.

They do actually remind me of us in how naive they are in periods of matches. Given the bigger teams better games though given they beat Norwich, should've beaten Arsenal and deserve to be 1 up v Spurs.

To stay up we're going to have to beat some of those in second half of the season whoever the manager is.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on December 28, 2019, 06:26:51 PM
We need swift action from the owners to save us.  We will see.

After a bit of sulking, I do think this is salvageable if the right actions are taken quickly.  This isn't like when we had a disinterested Lerner and his clueless sidekicks running us into the ground, but the new owners and the hierarchy of the club have now got to make some massive decisions. We are nowhere near cut adrift at this point, but do run the risk of becoming so if this continues much longer.

They have put faith in Dean Smith and his staff, and had a transfer policy in the summer geared towards younger players.  We are now halfway through the season and it hasn't worked and it is rapidly getting worse.   
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Meanwood Villa on December 28, 2019, 11:01:24 PM
Good points tomd. I am feeling pretty downbeat but when you look at the table all is not lost. Bit of decisive action by the ownership, whatever that may be, and there is time for the club to be galvanised this season. Certainly shouldn't be the pathetic surrender of 2016.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 28, 2019, 11:07:23 PM
The similarities to 2016 is the strength and experience of the team, some good potential but not enough experience.
This time the club has a management structure and owners recently invested.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on December 29, 2019, 02:55:09 AM
Feeling really low so dared to look at the table and had to remind myself how tight it all is. We could/should so easily be upper mid table but thanks to some appalling game management and Kevin Friend weíre not. The performances are the greatest worry as we look utterly shot.

Weíre effectively 2 points from safety with 54 still to play for. Thatís not panic stations. The performances over the last 4 weeks most certainly have been. Very worried but not resigned like I was in 2015/16. Over to Purslow and the owners.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: adrenachrome on December 29, 2019, 03:04:59 AM
We are going to be in the mix whatever happens. None of the teams at the bottom are as bad as those of 5 or 6 years ago.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mr underhill on December 29, 2019, 08:04:08 AM
TBH I've always thought we'd go down because the recruitment in the summer mirrored that of 2015. I can honestly say i haven't enjoyed our return much at all. Needless to say, I will be renewing my ST at the earliest opportunity to do my tiny bit for the club.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on December 29, 2019, 11:56:18 AM
Anyone know what the FFP implications are of us returning to the shithole that is The Championship?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Roysmert on December 29, 2019, 12:02:14 PM
Frightening
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:09:34 PM
Anyone know what the FFP implications are of us returning to the shithole that is The Championship?
We sell Jack Mings and SJM
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on December 29, 2019, 12:12:35 PM
Jack Mings? Is he in the U23s? Do you think it might be worth playing him instead of Concrete Wes?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:16:50 PM
 :o
Jack Mings? Is he in the U23s? Do you think it might be worth playing him instead of Concrete Wes?
Jack Ma would be better than concrete Wes
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 29, 2019, 12:20:38 PM
Whats scary will be intransigence, lack of ruthless decision making and watching the club sink in a very relaxed way, we all know where this can go, Aston Villa virtually vanished just a short while back.

If its not working fix it, or at least try.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on December 29, 2019, 12:29:01 PM
Anyone know what the FFP implications are of us returning to the shithole that is The Championship?

I get the feeling we'd get a points deduction. All the other clubs were whinging about us but we got up and out of their way. Think the FL would act given they've done it to our neighbours and to shut everyone up, would also be a good warning to everyone else.

We really can't get relegated as it would set us back another three years imo but looks much more likely than three weeks ago (morning of the Leicester game which shows how quickly football can change).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:36:23 PM
8 games in 32 days coming up including 3 cup games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 29, 2019, 12:41:52 PM
8 games in 32 days coming up including 3 cup games.

On that fixture schedule on present form we could be on here by the 29th Jan, just a few short weeks away saying we need to think about life after Grealish, Mings, Heaton, McGinn and how we will rebuild for the Championship.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:46:37 PM
8 games in 32 days coming up including 3 cup games.

On that fixture schedule on present form we could be on here by the 29th Jan, just a few short weeks away saying we need to think about life after Grealish, Mings, Heaton, McGinn and how we will rebuild for the Championship.
Donít worry we have got Brighton Watford and Bournemouth coming up. :)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: BoVillan esq on December 29, 2019, 12:51:39 PM
8 games in 32 days coming up including 3 cup games.

On that fixture schedule on present form we could be on here by the 29th Jan, just a few short weeks away saying we need to think about life after Grealish, Mings, Heaton, McGinn and how we will rebuild for the Championship.
Donít worry we have got Brighton Watford and Bournemouth coming up. :)

That's okay then, is it wrong to say a win from the Watford game is nailed on?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on December 29, 2019, 12:54:43 PM
The situation is very far from irredeemable. There are six teams within six points of us. Of them, Bournemouth and West Ham are also in woeful form. Burnley donít score any goals. Above them, you wouldnít expect Newcastle to keep getting better results than their performances deserve. Feels like a long shot given the last few games, but even four points from Burnley and Brighton over our next few games would likely see us move up the table.

The key, I guess, is whether you believe Smith is capable/willing to make the changes that we desperately need. Make us more solid, find a way to free up the good players that we do have to make more of an impact and make us a bit more streetwise and we can absolutely get out of this. Probably does require two/three good additions in January though.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on December 29, 2019, 12:56:02 PM
8 games in 32 days coming up including 3 cup games.

On that fixture schedule on present form we could be on here by the 29th Jan, just a few short weeks away saying we need to think about life after Grealish, Mings, Heaton, McGinn and how we will rebuild for the Championship.
Donít worry we have got Brighton Watford and Bournemouth coming up. :)

That's okay then, is it wrong to say a win from the Watford game is nailed on?
Yes they are all ready down apparently.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on January 01, 2020, 07:48:17 PM
Jan 18th Brighton
Jan 21st Watford
Feb 1st Bournemouth

Three massive fixtures and we have time to hopefully bring in a player or two before those games.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: maidstonevillain on January 01, 2020, 07:57:09 PM
Jan 18th Brighton
Jan 21st Watford
Feb 1st Bournemouth

Three massive fixtures and we have time to hopefully bring in a player or two before those games.

6 points from those, if against Watford and Bournemouth, would be good.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sdwbvf on January 02, 2020, 07:46:45 AM
Man City have shown themselves beatable. Get a performance like the Liverpool one and we have a chance. Not much of one ...
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Smithy on January 02, 2020, 10:30:20 AM
Imagine if at the start of August, someone would have told you that by the halfway point we'd have won as many games as Arsenal, and only two fewer than Man Utd and Spurs.

I'd have snapped their hands off.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Bad English on January 02, 2020, 11:31:47 AM
*silently corrects grammar and weeps*
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: gpbarr on January 03, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
Jan 18th Brighton
Jan 21st Watford
Feb 1st Bournemouth

Three massive fixtures and we have time to hopefully bring in a player or two before those games.

6 points from those, if against Watford and Bournemouth, would be good.


6 points from those 3 games plus the Man City game would be good. In fact, if we average 6 points from 4 games though the end of the season, we'd be on 46 points come end of the season and survival.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2020, 04:43:44 PM
Our second half of the season looks a lot tougher than the first half.
We now have serious injuries to contend with.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on January 03, 2020, 05:27:11 PM
Let's hope we make some astute signings.

I'm hopeful that with a decent midfielder and 2 strikers we'll be fine.

Do you mean the 2nd half looks harder because of the injuries or just in general?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Risso on January 03, 2020, 05:33:01 PM
The run of games from March until Mid April looks extremely difficult, and we need as many points on board before then:

7/3 Leicester away
14/3 Chelsea home
21/3 Newcastle away
4/4 Wolves home
11/4 Liverpool away
18/4 Man U home


Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 03, 2020, 06:06:28 PM
Let's hope we make some astute signings.

I'm hopeful that with a decent midfielder and 2 strikers we'll be fine.

Do you mean the 2nd half looks harder because of the injuries or just in general?
The home fixtures look pretty difficult with only  Watford out of the bottom 10 at home.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Sdwbvf on January 04, 2020, 06:28:38 PM
The run of games from March until Mid April looks extremely difficult, and we need as many points on board before then:

7/3 Leicester away
14/3 Chelsea home
21/3 Newcastle away
4/4 Wolves home
11/4 Liverpool away
18/4 Man U home

Leicester and Liverpool away are but the others are all beatable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2020, 07:06:07 PM
The run of games from March until Mid April looks extremely difficult, and we need as many points on board before then:

7/3 Leicester away
14/3 Chelsea home
21/3 Newcastle away
4/4 Wolves home
11/4 Liverpool away
18/4 Man U home

Leicester and Liverpool away are but the others are all beatable.
We have played quite a few beatable teams this season, without beating most of them.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 04, 2020, 07:14:29 PM
The run of games from March until Mid April looks extremely difficult, and we need as many points on board before then:

7/3 Leicester away
14/3 Chelsea home
21/3 Newcastle away
4/4 Wolves home
11/4 Liverpool away
18/4 Man U home

Leicester and Liverpool away are but the others are all beatable.
We have played quite a few beatable teams this season, without beating most of them.
That made me chuckle CL :)
A lot of fans as  well as the manager/coaches have really underestimated the ability of the opposition this season - in fact I will go so far as saying we've not prepared tactically for the majority of our games .....is that lazy or just down to lack of quality of our coaches/squad?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2020, 07:21:36 PM
The run of games from March until Mid April looks extremely difficult, and we need as many points on board before then:

7/3 Leicester away
14/3 Chelsea home
21/3 Newcastle away
4/4 Wolves home
11/4 Liverpool away
18/4 Man U home

Leicester and Liverpool away are but the others are all beatable.
We have played quite a few beatable teams this season, without beating most of them.
That made me chuckle CL :)
A lot of fans as  well as the manager/coaches have really underestimated the ability of the opposition this season - in fact I will go so far as saying we've not prepared tactically for the majority of our games .....is that lazy or just down to lack of quality of our coaches/squad?
I think the manager got stuck, did not know or want to change things until his job was on the line. I am not convinced by the Burnley result because we let them back in second half.
I agree that we have underestimated the opposition.
I think that we go into a tougher second half of the season weaker.
We need the same sort of January transfer activity that help transform our form last season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 04, 2020, 07:37:24 PM
I do fear for us. 3/4 quality additions this January and no further injuries are absolutely crucial.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 04, 2020, 07:45:11 PM
Two more away wins and I reckon we'll be o.k. Bournemouth and Newcastle are certainly winnable for me, we are well overdue a win at St James.

Do that and I reckon 10 points from our home games would keep us up. Difficult given some of the teams we're playing but we simply have to step up against the better teams in the league which our relegation rivals seem to have no trouble doing.

Spurs at home for example. They're poor away from home (continued under Mourinho) and Kane will likely be out so that's a game we should be looking at a point minimum from imo.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 04, 2020, 07:52:28 PM
By Feb  2 And the break we will have played Brighton A Watford H Bournemouth A..
This will decide our season.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ads on January 04, 2020, 08:13:23 PM
I really, really, really hope we beat the Gerodies away from home.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 04, 2020, 08:43:51 PM
I really, really, really hope we beat the Gerodies away from home.
Gerodies ;)
Yes it would be good to  shit on the Magpies and then unfurl a banner dedicated to Ant and Dec " Log on the Tyne" :)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2020, 08:57:05 AM
Norwich gone, now West Ham Burnley Bournemouth Brighton Newcastle Watford and us..
Pick 2 from 7
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Baldy on January 12, 2020, 09:03:12 AM
I would include Watford in that bunch. Two from seven.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy65 on January 12, 2020, 09:07:12 AM
Other than today and Liverpool away we are capable of getting points from all the remaining games IMHO
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mr underhill on January 12, 2020, 09:08:14 AM
only if we score goals - and for that we need at least one new forward.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Havencheese on January 12, 2020, 09:38:47 AM
Will Liverpool be champions by the time Villa gets to play them? In the closing weeks, it'll be interesting to see who could potentially be on the beach should we still be in the mire late on.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JJ-AV on January 12, 2020, 10:22:32 AM
Win the big 3 games looming and we're three-quarters safe. Lose them and we can expect relegation. It'll likely fall somewhere in the middle, but as a minimum 4 points from Watford and Bournemouth is needed.

Probably not the most insightful post of all time!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JJ-AV on January 12, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
Will Liverpool be champions by the time Villa gets to play them? In the closing weeks, it'll be interesting to see who could potentially be on the beach should we still be in the mire late on.

They will probably be, but also chasing the best ever points tally and possibly unbeaten.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2020, 10:54:37 AM
I would include Watford in that bunch. Two from seven.
Yes, amended
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 11:55:00 AM
Will Liverpool be champions by the time Villa gets to play them? In the closing weeks, it'll be interesting to see who could potentially be on the beach should we still be in the mire late on.

We're actually the game they could beat the Arsenal 49 unbeaten run.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard on January 12, 2020, 12:16:48 PM
Will Liverpool be champions by the time Villa gets to play them? In the closing weeks, it'll be interesting to see who could potentially be on the beach should we still be in the mire late on.

We're actually the game they could beat the Arsenal 49 unbeaten run.

Ah good they'd take the draw then !
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ASHTONVILLA on January 12, 2020, 12:55:54 PM
Less Worried with the change of formation. With the caveat that we sign better players this window than last. Need a striker far better than Wesley and another winger. Fine in goal and central defense. A better defensive midfielder would be nice too if possible.

Don't make decent signings and back to being worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: DB on January 12, 2020, 01:03:46 PM
Burnley gave me a lot of hope. Play like that for the rest of the seasons and make a few good signings, and we will be ok. Starting with 2 strikers
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Demitri_C on January 12, 2020, 03:26:50 PM
Well watford for me are not going down
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 03:30:23 PM
Watford and Southampton really have had a fantastic winter.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 12, 2020, 05:51:28 PM
No longer worried ....just resigned
Poor management, poor recruitment .....fucking awful squad
Dean Smith ...from legend  to leg end inside 8 months
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Axl Rose on January 12, 2020, 05:53:55 PM
Just fucking raging.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2020, 05:55:49 PM
I think today has killed off our title challenge.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on January 12, 2020, 05:56:42 PM
It is going to be an interesting couple of weeks until the end of January. We have the transfer window, our next three games are all six pointers and there will be constant question marks over our manager.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on January 12, 2020, 05:57:36 PM
I think today has killed off our title challenge.

It might have kick started our Championship title challenge for next season. ;)
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 12, 2020, 06:00:00 PM
Can we just concede to Leicester please?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on January 12, 2020, 06:02:08 PM
Mightily.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Deano's Mullet on January 12, 2020, 06:04:32 PM
Bournemouth are in free fall but they will still beat us. We won't beat Watford. We are screwed.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Damo70 on January 12, 2020, 06:06:43 PM
I think I am teetering somewhere on the brink of worry and resignation.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: N'ZMAV on January 12, 2020, 06:10:23 PM
This result will break us. We are going down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2020, 06:11:47 PM
A shot!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 06:13:31 PM
This result will break us. We are going down.

It really shouldn't. West Ham, Southampton and Newcastle all been thrashed this season by Leicester and Man. City and all responded with their best runs of the season.

Would just be another excuse and ways to stop it is always to bring in some fresh faces.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Proposition Joe on January 12, 2020, 06:13:52 PM
This match is like those moments in Goodfellas where the action freezes:

That was the moment we knew we were going to get relegated.
That was the moment when Jack Grealish decided he would push for a move to another club in the Summer.

On the bright side, it was more fun in the Championship than this, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2020, 06:14:37 PM
Weíve got two good players and no tactical clue. Weíre in a lot of trouble.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JJ-AV on January 12, 2020, 08:48:13 PM
Way too ambitious in the Summer and it may cost us. The signings were based on ideology and not in practicality.

Much like Summer 2015 - the players aren't bad, but you can't integrate that many without a solid unit and expect to get away with it. The squad we went down with were the second worst squad in Premier League history, a few years on and look at Amavi, Gana Gueye, Veretout, Adama and Ayew now. They'd form half of a solid midtable side.

We went for the juggular with our approach, trying to uneaerth gems and refused to take any loans. Imagine another world where we'd have been more pragmatic and looked at Cahill, Phillips and Delph and loned in Wilson and Benteke instead of Engels, Nakamba, Luiz and Trezeguet. We'd have been much better off and given us a solid base to allow the younger and inexperienced players to develop from.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: brontebilly on January 12, 2020, 08:52:13 PM
Way too ambitious in the Summer and it may cost us. The signings were based on ideology and not in practicality.

Much like Summer 2015 - the players aren't bad, but you can't integrate that many without a solid unit and expect to get away with it. The squad we went down with were the second worst squad in Premier League history, a few years on and look at Amavi, Gana Gueye, Veretout, Adama and Ayew now. They'd form half of a solid midtable side.

We went for the juggular with our approach, trying to uneaerth gems and refused to take any loans. Imagine another world where we'd have been more pragmatic and looked at Cahill, Phillips and Delph and loned in Wilson and Benteke instead of Engels, Nakamba, Luiz and Trezeguet. We'd have been much better off and given us a solid base to allow the younger and inexperienced players to develop from.

We really should have pushed the boat out to get Phillips. He is miles better than any of our other midfielders. Agree 100% with you, some of the new signings have potential but we don't have a solid spine in the team that fits it all together.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: aj2k77 on January 12, 2020, 08:54:47 PM
We currently have a spine of

Nyland
Mings
Drinkwater
El Ghazi

That isn't even top 6 championship to be honest. 2 out of us, Burnley and Bournemouth will get relegated. We are fannying around signing 37 year olds and playing with no Striker. It doesn't take a genius to work out how this is going to end up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on January 12, 2020, 08:56:18 PM
Sounds obvious but I honestly think if we get our forward recruiting right in January weíll be fine. Trouble is all our targets are either getting injured or wonít want to join this current shit show. Weíll be left with the scraps and thatís not going to be good enough.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on January 12, 2020, 09:09:24 PM
This result will break us. We are going down.

It really shouldn't. West Ham, Southampton and Newcastle all been thrashed this season by Leicester and Man. City and all responded with their best runs of the season.

Would just be another excuse and ways to stop it is always to bring in some fresh faces.

Absolutely. We were also garbage against Watford and then won the next game, with a pretty decent performance as well, against Burnley.

Every team gets injuries, so you definitely canít solely blame them (and our manager should have done more to help the players today and on some other occasions) but we have been particularly unlucky in who has been hit my them. McGinn, Heaton and Wesley are, for different reasons, all absolutely massive losses to a club in our current situation.

The next three weeks will be huge in terms of our season - both in respect of who we are playing and the players we bring in. Get it right and there is absolutely no reason at all that we canít stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PeterWithesShin on January 12, 2020, 09:09:56 PM
If folks mean Kalvin Phillips I don't think there's any chance he'd have joined in the summer. Leeds didn't want to sell hence the £30m price tag and he's their Jack, local lad playing for his club since he was a kid, and would have been like Jack was for us last season, 1 last push with his club this season
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 09:17:35 PM
Cahill should've been picked up, no excuse on that one considering he was a freebie. Been excellent for Palace as I suspected he would be.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: sickbeggar on January 12, 2020, 09:19:56 PM
I'd say its probably 50/50 us staying up, and as someone who had no delusions about the quality of the Bruceball side coming up, I probably would have taken that at the start of the season. The one scrap of comfort after tonight was even though we got handed our arse, there isn't the whiff of decay about the club as there was last time, or the stink of bad eggs coming from the dressing room. Smith needs to develop a siege mentality in the side. stop the defence shipping goals at will, decide his best side/formation  and stick with it. Find some sort of vaguely coherant midfield, buy a striker who everyone else has missed who can score 15 goals between now and May...... Easy.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on January 12, 2020, 09:21:14 PM
Cahill should've been picked up, no excuse on that one considering he was a freebie. Been excellent for Palace as I suspected he would be.

Palace play, and more importantly, defend in a completely different way to us though. Iím not sure Cahill playing in our much more wide open team would would have made a huge amount of difference.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 09:23:37 PM
Way too ambitious in the Summer and it may cost us. The signings were based on ideology and not in practicality.

Ideology. That is it. I tried to address this in another thread but that is it.

Sometimes you have to walk before you can run. A first season back of consolidation and steady building would have been what was needed.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on January 12, 2020, 09:29:16 PM
Summer 2019 -

Aston Villa spend £133m
Sheff Utd spend £42m

How much we've spent is almost as alarming as the thought of giving Dean Smith (or whoever buys the players) more money in the January panic.

As a slight aside, JT is supposedly one of the best defenders ever in Premier Leagues - so how come we defend worse than an U11 team? What exactly is he doing?

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: CT on January 12, 2020, 09:32:09 PM
I've stopped worrying. The manner of our defeats against Southampton, Watford and today just suggests that we don't have the stomach for a fight, let alone enough talent.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: sickbeggar on January 12, 2020, 09:34:18 PM
Way too ambitious in the Summer and it may cost us. The signings were based on ideology and not in practicality.

Ideology. That is it. I tried to address this in another thread but that is it.

Sometimes you have to walk before you can run. A first season back of consolidation and steady building would have been what was needed.


Was it ideology or desperation? I mean even with a blank cheque book no manager wants to bring in 10 plus players at once.. I'm just looking at our team in the Play-off final and its pretty slim pickings for a premier league side. Take out Tuanzebe and Abraham, you've got Mings, McGinn and Grealish as the only players i'd say was the basis of a premier league 1st team. Even with our high spending its a big ask to find 8 premiership quality players and another 5 squad players capable of doing a job.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Villan82 on January 12, 2020, 09:38:36 PM
Yes, but why were we so ideologically opposed to a couple of loans? Why couldn't we have tried for a premier league standard loan or two? Instead, we went for young players with very little experience - it was, in hindsight, a risk.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: sickbeggar on January 12, 2020, 09:40:27 PM
Yes, but why were we so ideologically opposed to a couple of loans? Why couldn't we have tried for a premier league standard loan or two? Instead, we went for young players with very little experience - it was, in hindsight, a risk.

yeah, fair point..
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Three Spires Villa on January 12, 2020, 09:44:40 PM
Personally I think we will go down, so yes worried. I have gone from from positive to despair, over the season. Agree with everyone who has said that the squad & management lack experience. The experiment should stop now, it hasnít worked. Get Raffa in & give us a chance
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: OzVilla on January 12, 2020, 09:47:30 PM
I think if they were going to punt Smith itís have happened after Watford with an almost full window for the new manager to work with. It wonít happen now, particularly after a drubbing by Citeh. I think heíll see it out now for better or for worse.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2020, 09:50:31 PM
I think my main concern is the shear lack off tactical ability. This is a genuine question. How many games have we won after going behind? I worry that Dean canít positively change a game.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on January 12, 2020, 10:01:46 PM
I think my main concern is the shear lack off tactical ability. This is a genuine question. How many games have we won after going behind? I worry that Dean canít positively change a game.

One. Brighton. After they went down to ten men.

While I agree with the broad point and itís quite clearly not a good thing, I donít think itís untypical of teams in this part of the table. Iíve only had a very quick glance, so apologies if this is wrong, but I believe that none of Norwich, Bournemouth, Watford, West Ham or Burnley have won a single game after going behind.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: PaulWinch again on January 12, 2020, 10:03:32 PM
Fair enough. I think my primary concern, and clearly less of an issue today as we were dead within 30 mins, but itís how we just tail off in games so much.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 12, 2020, 10:08:04 PM
I really don't think we can cope with teams who press us.

We really struggled v Brighton before they went down to 10 men. Southampton and Watford were two disasters and then add Man. City who can hyper press and have world class players in final third.

Playing physical teams who don't have much technical quality and just hit long diagonals is really the best we can cope with the squad currently, our two best wins this season have been v Newcastle and Burnley arguably and those two are arguably the least technical in the league.

It was the same in the championship when you look at it. We struggled v likes of Leeds and Fulham but could beat the more functional teams quite convincingly.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: D.boy on January 12, 2020, 10:20:10 PM
I can't see where the next win is going to come from. We have bugger all threat up front and leak goals at the back. It doesn't look good right now and it will also be very difficult attracting a quality striker in our position.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on January 12, 2020, 10:32:46 PM
Itíll obviously be on what we do ourselves whether we stay up or not but, bearing in mind we will need to overhaul a team or two, we are not exactly the only team with issues:

Bournemouth look woeful at the moment
Burnley have scored four goals in their last nine games.
Newcastle have won one of their last six and have loads of injuries
Even Brighton, who I donít think will go down, have only won two in eleven
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on January 12, 2020, 10:58:07 PM
I think itís 3 out of this 4 for the drop

Bournemouth
Burnley
Norwich
Villa

Watford, Brighton, Spam Southampton will all have to much
Newcastle I thought weíre nailed on to go down but are picking up points and look ok for now but could make it a 3 out of 5
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Des Little on January 12, 2020, 11:07:14 PM
Right now, Watford look everything that we arenít. Theyíll stay up no problem.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 12, 2020, 11:10:59 PM
The problem I have is that Burnley and Bournemouth have a style of play, method , identity and are used to the Premier League.
In comparison we are all over the place and appear to be making it up game to game.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Smithy on January 13, 2020, 09:07:26 AM
I've always looked at staying up this season as 'being better than three other teams'. And at various points I've been quite confident of that.  The issue at the moment is there are teams I was certain we were better than five weeks ago, who are now chasing mid-table positions, and the teams I think we ARE better than are a few points ahead of us.

The way the teams at the bottom (barring Norwich) seem capable of stringing a few results together suggests we could be looking at the highest total for a relegated side in a few years.  Right now I'm not certain 40 points would definitely save us.

The next three games are absolutely huge, 6 points and things will look a LOT healthier, but lose two of them and we'll have lost a lot of ground on the teams above us.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: john e on January 13, 2020, 09:17:04 AM
having no strikers is a massive problem but for me its not the biggest

biggest problem is the fact that the whole team but the midfield in particular treat the ball like a hot coal,
 cant control it, cant pass it, rabbits in headlights when they have it, hide away from it, pass it backwards for safety to often, have no confidence on the ball at all, its like we are a bunch of amatures, embarrassing to watch

we can bring in a great striker but it still doesn't get us over that problem
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: VinnieChase84 on January 13, 2020, 09:22:21 AM
realistically we need 19 points from 16 games left.Thats 5 wins and 4 draws.
are we really only going to not take anything from 7 games left..............

THATS whats worrying me
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: darren woolley on January 13, 2020, 09:28:22 AM
I'm not worried concerned maybe let's see what who we can bring in during this transfer window to help us who we get could be the difference of staying up or going down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 13, 2020, 09:29:49 AM
having no strikers is a massive problem but for me its not the biggest

biggest problem is the fact that the whole team but the midfield in particular treat the ball like a hot coal,
 cant control it, cant pass it, rabbits in headlights when they have it, hide away from it, pass it backwards for safety to often, have no confidence on the ball at all, its like we are a bunch of amatures, embarrassing to watch

we can bring in a great striker but it still doesn't get us over that problem
Completely agree, and no closing down either.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: JJ-AV on January 13, 2020, 01:08:04 PM
We lack leaders and personality. Heaton, Mings, Jack and McGinn have some of it but we've barely had all 4 of those on the pitch this season. Without it, we're found wanting.

Shouldn't have let Jedinak and Whelan go and kept them and let Lansbury go instead. Even if they wouldn't have played much - one of those two coming on in the games we've been unable to see out or being around the squad would surely have had a positive impact when the heads drop.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard on January 13, 2020, 01:58:39 PM
Worried yes but it's not like we are cut adrift, far from it. The other 6 teams in the mix are pretty poor too.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on January 13, 2020, 02:04:35 PM
I think my main concern is the shear lack off tactical ability. This is a genuine question. How many games have we won after going behind? I worry that Dean canít positively change a game.

One. Brighton. After they went down to ten men.

While I agree with the broad point and itís quite clearly not a good thing, I donít think itís untypical of teams in this part of the table. Iíve only had a very quick glance, so apologies if this is wrong, but I believe that none of Norwich, Bournemouth, Watford, West Ham or Burnley have won a single game after going behind.

That Brighton game is the only one out of the last 53 in which we've gone behind (or conceded first, can't remember which) in the Premier League.

Which backs up your point because we've been at the arse end of this division for the last 10 years we've been in it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 13, 2020, 02:05:02 PM
having no strikers is a massive problem but for me its not the biggest

biggest problem is the fact that the whole team but the midfield in particular treat the ball like a hot coal,
 cant control it, cant pass it, rabbits in headlights when they have it, hide away from it, pass it backwards for safety to often, have no confidence on the ball at all, its like we are a bunch of amatures, embarrassing to watch

we can bring in a great striker but it still doesn't get us over that problem

Just add can't throw a ball to our own player from a throw in and I think we've reached 15/16 levels of incompetence.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on January 13, 2020, 02:07:37 PM
McGinn is the leader of our midfield. He chases, protects and tackles. The rest are lightweight.

As for throw ins we've been horrendous at them for as long as I can remember.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on January 13, 2020, 02:27:23 PM
They're going to be horrendous when City have 5 players around the ball and at best we have one or two well shackled players trying to show for it.

Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: passport1 on January 14, 2020, 07:47:39 AM
Avoiding relegation was always going to the the main priority with the added difficulty of a manager (I don't rate) with no experience at this level. Pretty much as I expected so not worried.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: tomd2103 on January 14, 2020, 01:17:11 PM
As mentioned above, we are far from cut adrift at this point, but my concerns have increased a bit after witnessing that hammering at the weekend. 

Although we have picked up a couple of results, performances have not been great for a while now and we just seem to be panicking a bit on the transfer front and adopting a bit of a scattergun approach.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Reuben on January 14, 2020, 01:40:46 PM
To me, apart from the next 3 games, there isn't a run of fixtures that will allow us to get on a good run which is a concern.  Newcastle away in March is between Leicester, Chelsea, Wolves, Liverpool and Man United.  The 'easy' looking games are against in form teams like Southampton and Sheff Utd.  We have to hope we can get results v Spurs and Arsenal at home (and maybe Wolves) otherwise it's hard to see us getting 20 points from the last 16.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on January 14, 2020, 04:07:02 PM
To me, apart from the next 3 games, there isn't a run of fixtures that will allow us to get on a good run which is a concern.  Newcastle away in March is between Leicester, Chelsea, Wolves, Liverpool and Man United.  The 'easy' looking games are against in form teams like Southampton and Sheff Utd.  We have to hope we can get results v Spurs and Arsenal at home (and maybe Wolves) otherwise it's hard to see us getting 20 points from the last 16.

As nice as it would be, teams down the bottom of the table donít tend to go on that much of a good run. Of the bottom eight teams only West Ham, at the start of the season, and Watford recently have really had anything approaching a good run. Think the best any of the others have managed is 2-3 games unbeaten.

Our wins probably will be fairly sporadic for the remainder of the season as will be the case with most struggling teams. I do agree that we need a few Ďunexpectedí results in order to give us the best chance of staying up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Des Little on January 14, 2020, 04:13:41 PM
What does worry me is that we haven't yet won a game that others around us will think 'fuck', such as Watford beating Yernited, Southampton at Leicester etc etc.  We are extremely predictable when it comes to games we don't expect to win - we don't.  That has to change.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: johnc on January 14, 2020, 04:15:14 PM
And SOuthampton have hit a purple patch. 2nd on to Lpool at the moment
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 14, 2020, 04:20:01 PM
Oh for those heady days of 10 wins in a row, we can't string 10 passes in a row these days.

As many others have pointed out, these next 3 league games are everything, 6 points has to be the absolute bare minimum, I'd prefer 7 and but absolutely over the moon with 9. Imagine that, 3 wins on the trot.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 04:33:06 PM
Oh for those heady days of 10 wins in a row, we can't string 10 passes in a row these days.

As many others have pointed out, these next 3 league games are everything, 6 points has to be the absolute bare minimum, I'd prefer 7 and but absolutely over the moon with 9. Imagine that, 3 wins on the trot.

I wonder when we last did that in the top division.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on January 14, 2020, 04:34:39 PM
John Gregory? Or was that just an unbeaten run?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Lastfootstamper on January 14, 2020, 04:44:36 PM
Oh for those heady days of 10 wins in a row, we can't string 10 passes in a row these days.

As many others have pointed out, these next 3 league games are everything, 6 points has to be the absolute bare minimum, I'd prefer 7 and but absolutely over the moon with 9. Imagine that, 3 wins on the trot.

I wonder when we last did that in the top division.

2010.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on January 14, 2020, 05:44:23 PM
Oh for those heady days of 10 wins in a row, we can't string 10 passes in a row these days.

As many others have pointed out, these next 3 league games are everything, 6 points has to be the absolute bare minimum, I'd prefer 7 and but absolutely over the moon with 9. Imagine that, 3 wins on the trot.

I wonder when we last did that in the top division.

2010.

10 fucking years.

That's disgraceful but shows just what we're having to come back from. We are a long term project.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: ChicagoLion on January 14, 2020, 06:09:54 PM
We have to get at least draws against Brighton and Watford and beat Bournemouth.
Just to stay in touch, any worse and I thing we are done and any better will give us a fighting chance.
Itís pretty desperate now.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on January 14, 2020, 06:34:26 PM
We have to get at least draws against Brighton and Watford and beat Bournemouth.
Just to stay in touch, any worse and I thing we are done and any better will give us a fighting chance.
Itís pretty desperate now.
I know it feels desperate, but we're only 1 point off safety and have suffered some really bad luck both in terms of decisions and injuries in getting into this position.  It was always going to be a tough season and realistically somewhere between 15-20th was always on the cards.  It still is.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ads on January 14, 2020, 06:37:48 PM
A point Saturday would be good, although a win would really flush Man City out the system.

We have to be looking to beat Watford and I think Bournemouth away is the most winnable of the lot.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 14, 2020, 06:46:52 PM
Watford game at Tranmere tonight in the cup replay has been called off. New date is Thursday 23rd. We are supposed to play them on Tuesday the 21st. It may get moved.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on January 14, 2020, 06:49:01 PM
Watford game at Tranmere tonight in the cup replay has been called off. New date is Thursday 23rd. We are supposed to play them on Tuesday the 21st. It may get moved.
That's potentially good news - gives us time to get the new strike force in place and "Drinky" up to match fitness
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on January 14, 2020, 06:50:04 PM
Watford game at Tranmere tonight in the cup replay has been called off. New date is Thursday 23rd. We are supposed to play them on Tuesday the 21st. It may get moved.
That's potentially good news - gives us time to get the new strike force in place and "Drinky" up to match fitness

Too soon to lock the thread?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: chrisw1 on January 14, 2020, 07:09:09 PM
Watford game at Tranmere tonight in the cup replay has been called off. New date is Thursday 23rd. We are supposed to play them on Tuesday the 21st. It may get moved.
They've picked that date in knowledge of the league fixtures.  Surely they wouldn't move our game at that short notice?
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Richard on January 14, 2020, 07:31:40 PM
It's definitely staying as the 21st the FA insisted on the replay 23rd to get sorted before the 4th round.

Won't affect us much as Pearson has already stated the cup is not important compared to staying up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: sickbeggar on January 14, 2020, 09:49:02 PM
Brighton stayed up with 36 points last time so even 40 points in 16 games - 1.2 points per game - is extremely gettable. I'm also not convinced that teams like Watford and Southampton have turned it round. Possibly a bit of new manager bounce in the case of the former.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 14, 2020, 09:55:46 PM
Oh for those heady days of 10 wins in a row, we can't string 10 passes in a row these days.

As many others have pointed out, these next 3 league games are everything, 6 points has to be the absolute bare minimum, I'd prefer 7 and but absolutely over the moon with 9. Imagine that, 3 wins on the trot.

I'd be happy with 5 personally.

Point at Brighton is obviously good on the back of an awful defeat. While it would be great boost to beat Watford at home you have to accept they're most inform team outside of top 2 and we could easily lose that.

Bournemouth is the critical one. We really need a win there otherwise things will start to get pretty difficult.

Anyway 5 points would put us on 26 points with still 13 games left. We could only then need 3 wins and a couple of draws to stay up.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 14, 2020, 09:57:14 PM
We have to get at least draws against Brighton and Watford and beat Bournemouth.
Just to stay in touch, any worse and I thing we are done and any better will give us a fighting chance.
Itís pretty desperate now.

We'd be clear of bottom 3 if we got 5 points I think. Obviously keeps Bournemouth down below us and West Ham have Everton, Leicester and Liverpool as their next 3 so can't see much there although like so many they can pull off a shock result from time to time.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on January 14, 2020, 10:03:49 PM
9 would be infinitely preferable.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 14, 2020, 10:11:24 PM
9 would be infinitely preferable.

Feels like we last won three in a row at this level when Pongo Waring was still leading the line so wouldn't hold your breath on that one lee!
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Legion on January 14, 2020, 10:16:03 PM
John Gregory might beg to differ.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mike on January 14, 2020, 11:19:24 PM
John Gregory might beg to differ.

We didnít appreciate when we had it good.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 15, 2020, 12:53:14 AM
John Gregory might beg to differ.

Nearly twenty years ago under JG, scary how quickly time flies. Leeds at home in the cup was one of my all time favourite matches, that was in Jan 2000 (Carbone hatrick/Merse spilling blood).
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 15, 2020, 11:22:50 AM
I'm worried about this weekend if I'm honest, Brighton were well drilled when they came to Villa Park earlier in the season and arguably should have got at least a point, we were full strength and scraped a win in the 94th minute.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: cdbullyweefan on January 15, 2020, 12:15:10 PM
I wouldn't say we scraped a win, when we had a perfectly good goal disallowed and they scored from a ludicrous free kick. I still think they're not a bad side, though. Webster is about the best defender I've seen at Villa Park this season. It's a struggle to find three rubbish teams to finish below us, to be honest.

Maybe we were hasty in laughing when Blose went down.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Jon Crofts on January 15, 2020, 01:11:57 PM
I wouldn't say we scraped a win, when we bad a perfectly good goal disallowed and they scored from a ludicrous free kick. I still think they're not a bad side, though. Webster is about the best defender I've seen at Villa Park this season. It's a struggle to find three rubbish teams to finish below us, to be honest.

Maybe we were hasty in laughing when Blose went down.

Ah yes, I forgot about that VAR decision, you just know Maupay will grab a brace Saturday.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: supertom on January 15, 2020, 01:20:33 PM
We've got to get 6 from 6 in the next two or I think we might as well start bracing for the Championship. Trouble is, Watford have vastly improved under Pearson and Brighton look fairly safe and pretty well drilled. We looked like we'd twigged a system and finally knew how to organise ourselves, but that's all gone to fuckery of the City game. You can excuse losing to them given our injuries, but in that manner? It was utterly clueless. It just felt like we'd dick drilled ourselves firmly back into square one.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Clampy on January 15, 2020, 01:40:58 PM
I wouldn't say we scraped a win, when we bad a perfectly good goal disallowed and they scored from a ludicrous free kick. I still think they're not a bad side, though. Webster is about the best defender I've seen at Villa Park this season. It's a struggle to find three rubbish teams to finish below us, to be honest.

Maybe we were hasty in laughing when Blose went down.

Ah yes, I forgot about that VAR decision, you just know Maupay will grab a brace Saturday.

That VAR decison was just absolute bollocks.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: SoccerHQ on January 16, 2020, 12:23:52 AM
We've got to get 6 from 6 in the next two or I think we might as well start bracing for the Championship. Trouble is, Watford have vastly improved under Pearson and Brighton look fairly safe and pretty well drilled. We looked like we'd twigged a system and finally knew how to organise ourselves, but that's all gone to fuckery of the City game. You can excuse losing to them given our injuries, but in that manner? It was utterly clueless. It just felt like we'd dick drilled ourselves firmly back into square one.

We'll struggle to get 2 points I reckon.

I'm not sure why we need 6 points from next two. otherwise it means instant relegation though. West Ham's next three are Everton and Liverpool at home and Leicester away. They could easily take just 1 point from that so we could just beat Bournemouth and go above them and be back up to 17th.

Bournemouth is surely the biggest must win in next few weeks. They are below us and playing terribly so vital to me we go there and win and feasibly finish them off so just one more team to finish above.

If we can be up to 25 points by end of that game, take a point off Spurs and then get 4 off Sheffield United-Southampton then we'd have 30 points by start of March and so can then stay up taking less than a point a game given they'd be 10 left.

If people don't believe after the window closes we wouldn't be capable of taking points off the teams I've mentioned then I wonder what the point is of signing players as clearly they wouldn't be better than ones we've currently got.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: KRS on January 16, 2020, 02:15:00 AM
Worried and losing confidence/getting frustrated in the management team particularly with the much needed transfer activity...Iím fickle though and that can easily be changed with a few wins and decent signings that will show that we can stay in this division.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: mr underhill on January 16, 2020, 07:32:47 AM
To stay in we need forwards and we haven't got any. Trying to solve a problem in two weeks that should have been addressed in the summer is madness.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on January 16, 2020, 07:38:15 AM
I must admit I thought as we all did after missing out on another striker in the summer weíd have already had a number of players lined up ready for contact as soon as January started, it does seem we hadnít. It seemed a huge priority before Wes was injured even if he was playing very well and scoring, now itís crucial. That lack of forward planning seems a bit naive from the management. I did think weíd have been far more progressive and ruthless now we have this new set up in place.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on January 16, 2020, 09:31:22 AM
I must admit I thought as we all did after missing out on another striker in the summer weíd have already had a number of players lined up ready for contact as soon as January started, it does seem we hadnít. It seemed a huge priority before Wes was injured even if he was playing very well and scoring, now itís crucial. That lack of forward planning seems a bit naive from the management. I did think weíd have been far more progressive and ruthless now we have this new set up in place.

We absolutely would have had plans and targets. And back up plans. And probably plan C, D, E etc.

Itís not just as straightforward as that though. And plans can fall apart quite easily/quickly. Itís not unlikely that because there are a reduced amount of players available that several clubs target the same players, so that takes time. Plus players may well wait to later in the window to see if they get other/better offers.

Then you have the additional complication that we have now that it is blindly obvious we are desperate for a CF so clubs will, being businesses, increase the price or delay the process thinking we get more desperate and pay more money.

As we have seen with Drinkwater and Reina, the players that are readily available come with conditions - not match fit, declining ability, canít get into their current team.

Couple all that with the fact that (and I donít know enough about FFP so happy to be corrected if Iím wrong here) it seems that we are not in a position to spend loads of money/overpay to force a solution and patience is going to be key here - as much as this forum probably wonít like it!

January is a pretty difficult window anyway even before we picked up three key injuries right at the start of it. The fact that we have managed to replace two of them pretty quickly (if youíre prepared to reserve judgement on those players a little!) isnít bad going. Donít think we can judge the club too harshly until we see what they have done by the  end of the window.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Drummond on January 16, 2020, 09:41:10 AM
Agree. But bloody hell we need someone of quality up front.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Ian J on January 16, 2020, 01:40:12 PM
We certainly do and now McGinn is injured that is such a key area.

I understand that Luke, it's just very frustrating. I was just hoping I suppose with this new backroom set-up of scouts and directors of football and with very rich owners we might have been a bit more aggressive and forceful when the window opened in January. Maybe we have been and are as we talk, who knows, all we have heard is rumours and paper talk.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: RichardBatchelor on January 16, 2020, 02:24:21 PM
Realistically who can we finish above? Iíd go Norwich, Bournemouth and Newcastle, who could get dragged back into it.
Title: Re: Anyone starting to get worried?
Post by: Luke8 on January