Douglas Luiz - back home on loan

[Somniloquism]

Granted it wasn't Roma but very similar happened with Tammy where they brought him from Roma as the loan obligations were sorted and then sold him to us straight away at marked up value.

[Dave]

And if rumours are to be believed, they might buy him to immediately sell him at a profit.

That would be annoying, but completely understandable.  Given his scoring record in England and now Italy, he's worth much more than Roma will be paying.  The question is, who is going to give them the £40m+ is would require?

As I put in his thread t'other day:

Roma are ready to exercise an option to buy Donyell Malen from Aston Villa for 25m euros (£21.6m), with the 27-year-old Netherlands winger having scored 12 goals for the Italian side since signing on loan in January. (Voetbal International via Express & Star), external

However, Manchester United, Chelsea and Newcastle United are also keen to sign Malen, whose transfer fee could be as high as 30m euros (£25.9m). (Corriere Dello Sport via Manchester Evening News)

I can't see them flipping him for just 5m euros?  Not given that he's been a 'success' and is popular with the fan base.  When you look at how much strikers like Wissa went for last summer, then post-Italy, Donyell is now a £40m player, surely?  Just a shame we won't see the benefit (from the player, or the revenue).

If he hadn't spent a year on our bench and had just gone straight to Roma from Dortmund and been prolific, I could easily see someone seeing him at £40m+. But that perceived "lack of success" with us might mean that they're less confident in spending bigger money.

He's the sort of player that Newcastle or someone should be interested in. His face not quite fitting here doesn't mean he couldn't score 15+ in the Premier League for someone else.

[Mister E]

The Malen story is what really winds me up about last summer's dealings. To think: we could have kept both Malen and Ramey for the whole of this season and not wasted our time with Guessand, Sancho and Elliott ...
... in fact, Elliott coming into last season's squad as a bona fide player and contributor would have been excellent.

[Smithy]

And if rumours are to be believed, they might buy him to immediately sell him at a profit.

That would be annoying, but completely understandable.  Given his scoring record in England and now Italy, he's worth much more than Roma will be paying.  The question is, who is going to give them the £40m+ is would require?

As I put in his thread t'other day:

Roma are ready to exercise an option to buy Donyell Malen from Aston Villa for 25m euros (£21.6m), with the 27-year-old Netherlands winger having scored 12 goals for the Italian side since signing on loan in January. (Voetbal International via Express & Star), external

However, Manchester United, Chelsea and Newcastle United are also keen to sign Malen, whose transfer fee could be as high as 30m euros (£25.9m). (Corriere Dello Sport via Manchester Evening News)

I can't see them flipping him for just 5m euros?  Not given that he's been a 'success' and is popular with the fan base.  When you look at how much strikers like Wissa went for last summer, then post-Italy, Donyell is now a £40m player, surely?  Just a shame we won't see the benefit (from the player, or the revenue).

If he hadn't spent a year on our bench and had just gone straight to Roma from Dortmund and been prolific, I could easily see someone seeing him at £40m+. But that perceived "lack of success" with us might mean that they're less confident in spending bigger money.

He's the sort of player that Newcastle or someone should be interested in. His face not quite fitting here doesn't mean he couldn't score 15+ in the Premier League for someone else.

Is there a perceived lack of success? I know he didn't play enough (for him, and for some of us), but I thought his transfer was generally considered a reasonable success? He did pretty well when he played and was largely popular with the fans. We're certainly not selling at a loss.  His league goalscoring record is better than 1-in-2 (based on minutes on the pitch, not 'appearances').  He scored 7 premier league goals for us, but played less than 1,000 premier league minutes across the two seasons.

If you look at "he was there a year and only scored 10 goals" as the highlight, then yes, that might look like "not that successful", but surely anyone looking to buy him will be aware of how well he did in the context of his limited time on the pitch?

[Dave]

Is there a perceived lack of success? I know he didn't play enough (for him, and for some of us), but I thought his transfer was generally considered a reasonable success? He did pretty well when he played and was largely popular with the fans. We're certainly not selling at a loss.  His league goalscoring record is better than 1-in-2 (based on minutes on the pitch, not 'appearances').  He scored 7 premier league goals for us, but played less than 1,000 premier league minutes across the two seasons.

If you look at "he was there a year and only scored 10 goals" as the highlight, then yes, that might look like "not that successful", but surely anyone looking to buy him will be aware of how well he did in the context of his limited time on the pitch?

That's why it's a perceived lack of success, rather than a lack of success. If his time with us had been a success, he would be playing for us rather than Roma and wouldn't be being sold after 12-18 months for a similar fee to that which we paid.

I really like him and would much rather he was in our squad over Abraham. But a year on our bench, unable to regularly displace anyone from a frequently out-of-form forward line is something that Newcastle / Everton / Chelsea / whoever else is going to take into account in a way that they wouldn't had he gone straight from Dortmund to Roma.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Under a different manager, maybe. Unai has his plan and he sticks with it no matter what. We saw that at the beginning of the season. He insists and insists until it finally works again. Tactical flexibility isn't a term widely used when describing Unai. In game management? Yes. Malen was never in that plan other than coming off the bench or starting when there's an injury.

As for the calls for Dougie to start, I can't help thinking back to something Chris Smith years back used to describe on how a player improves the longer he's out, 'Cuellar Syndrome' or something of the like.

[Mister E]

As for the calls for Dougie to start, I can't help thinking back to something Chris Smith years back used to describe on how a player improves the longer he's out, 'Cuellar Syndrome' or something of the like.

Dougie has to be a better choice than Bogarde?

[PaulWinch again]

He definitely is. He’s not suited to be defensive midfield, but he’s no weaker than Bogarde defensively and he’s much better on the ball.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

As for the calls for Dougie to start, I can't help thinking back to something Chris Smith years back used to describe on how a player improves the longer he's out, 'Cuellar Syndrome' or something of the like.

Dougie has to be a better choice than Bogarde?

You'd think so but for some reason Unai doesn't. It's strange how Dougie has fallen off Unai's radar despite putting in more than decent performances when called upon.

[eye digress]

He definitely is. He’s not suited to be defensive midfield, but he’s no weaker than Bogarde defensively and he’s much better on the ball.

Assuming that it’s comes down to this, it’s a tough call to decide which should start. But if the key metric is tackling and defensive shape, I’d take Bogarde every time. If we’re aiming to assert more control in possession, then you’d favour Dougie (as I do, in these circumstances).

[Mister E]

He definitely is. He’s not suited to be defensive midfield, but he’s no weaker than Bogarde defensively and he’s much better on the ball.

Assuming that it’s comes down to this, it’s a tough call to decide which should start. But if the key metric is tackling and defensive shape, I’d take Bogarde every time. If we’re aiming to assert more control in possession, then you’d favour Dougie (as I do, in these circumstances).

Sorry to say, but Bogarde's positional sense has been all over the place in the last 2 or 3 games.

[PaulWinch again]

If Doug isn’t staying I’m really glad he got a few moments on the pitch to experience that. Hopefully he gets a winners medal too, but will be a much more fitting end to what has been a good Villa career.

[garyellis]

I will be amazed if we sign him permanently.
He just has not done enough to convince Unai on his return.

[brontebilly]

No Dougie is done under Emery. Thought it would work for us and in the main he has performed ok but clearly Emery not keen. Needs to get his career back on track asap with a huge pre season. Seems half a yard short of zip.

[ROBBO]

Emery expects players to follow and play to his instructions, we may think a player has done okay but he may not have carried out the plan. Interesting how much time Bogarde is getting as most believe he is not ready, obviously Unai does. It does appear though that when your out you are out.