Commercial failings

[Brassneck]

When a minimum wage worker is employed to serve for a 15 minute slot at HT, (s)he will never satisfy everyone in the queue.

I fail to see how this is a commercial failing and other than opening 50 more kiosks around the ground, I don't see what the answer is?

Lots of customers unable to give you their money for something which they are trying to sell you is the very definition of a commercial failing.

How about improve the method of delivery so it doesn't involve a teenager sloping off down the other end of the bar every time someone fancies a beer?

I am sure other grounds employ agency staff on minimum wage to do this work as well, but most of them seem better at it than we are. Which is probably why our commercial income managed to barely improve all through the latter premier league years.

Maybe the answer is, as you said, opening more kiosks? Maybe it is redeveloping the ground? Maybe it is moving to a new ground?

Whatever it is, we need to find the answer, because we're just going to fall further and further behind.

200 kids serving 20,000 people in a 20 minute slot? Do the maths.  It’s 100 customers per bar person or 5 customers per minute.  It’s impossible.

What on earth are you talking about? 200 kids? 20,000 people?

You're genuinely suggesting it is not possible to serve people considerably faster by either changing the way we serve, the number of serving points, or the facilities available at the ground?

What about this sort of measure?

It's not a science.  I remember being at Derby away, JPA was playing so that gives you a clue how long ago it was.  At half time the kiosk had pre-poured pints with lids on, and they were banging them out ten to the dozen without any issue.  Other clubs have bottle bars doing likewise.  We don't need a Steve Jobs to get this set up FFS.  The staff in the Holte Suite look like rabbits in headlights after the game, as if they weren't expecting hundreds of people wanting a drink.

One last thing, why don't we just serve bottles in the stands?  You have to go some to get a pint down you in 15 mins, so a bottle is plenty, and takes a fraction of the time to serve too. 

Rant now over.

Why can't we look at things like that?

Oh great - All hail the saving grace: The pre-poured pint.  That will elevate us into the multi - Billions league.

Not sure if you just want quicker service or greater revenue.  Either/or, it will always be a bun fight when everyone wants stuff at the same time.

[SoccerHQ]

What if we had the option of, for example, a new stadium with facilities like the new Spurs one, on the site of the wholesale markets in the city centre? What if we rebuilt Villa Park on the current location? The transport links to Aston are piss poor, what can be done to improve that?

Transport links are better than what Spurs have, two train stations within 5-10 minutes walk, Spurs would kill for that.

Take your point over the catering.

[pauliewalnuts]

When a minimum wage worker is employed to serve for a 15 minute slot at HT, (s)he will never satisfy everyone in the queue.

I fail to see how this is a commercial failing and other than opening 50 more kiosks around the ground, I don't see what the answer is?

Lots of customers unable to give you their money for something which they are trying to sell you is the very definition of a commercial failing.

How about improve the method of delivery so it doesn't involve a teenager sloping off down the other end of the bar every time someone fancies a beer?

I am sure other grounds employ agency staff on minimum wage to do this work as well, but most of them seem better at it than we are. Which is probably why our commercial income managed to barely improve all through the latter premier league years.

Maybe the answer is, as you said, opening more kiosks? Maybe it is redeveloping the ground? Maybe it is moving to a new ground?

Whatever it is, we need to find the answer, because we're just going to fall further and further behind.

200 kids serving 20,000 people in a 20 minute slot? Do the maths.  It’s 100 customers per bar person or 5 customers per minute.  It’s impossible.

What on earth are you talking about? 200 kids? 20,000 people?

You're genuinely suggesting it is not possible to serve people considerably faster by either changing the way we serve, the number of serving points, or the facilities available at the ground?

What about this sort of measure?

It's not a science.  I remember being at Derby away, JPA was playing so that gives you a clue how long ago it was.  At half time the kiosk had pre-poured pints with lids on, and they were banging them out ten to the dozen without any issue.  Other clubs have bottle bars doing likewise.  We don't need a Steve Jobs to get this set up FFS.  The staff in the Holte Suite look like rabbits in headlights after the game, as if they weren't expecting hundreds of people wanting a drink.

One last thing, why don't we just serve bottles in the stands?  You have to go some to get a pint down you in 15 mins, so a bottle is plenty, and takes a fraction of the time to serve too. 

Rant now over.

Why can't we look at things like that?

Oh great - All hail the saving grace: The pre-poured pint.  That will elevate us into the multi - Billions league.

Not sure if you just want quicker service or greater revenue.  Either/or, it will always be a bun fight when everyone wants stuff at the same time.

Yes, because that's exactly what I am saying, isn't it, pre-poured pints will elevate us into the world of Man City.

Quicker service equals greater revenue - more people getting to buy what they want to buy, more money for the club. We've got to be self sufficient, so these things matter.

The fact that our commercial income remained static for so many years in the top flight tells you there was something wrong. People being unable to buy replica shirts tells you something is wrong as well.

If you think everything's cool and there's no point trying to improve things, then come out and say it.

[SoccerHQ]

Was just thinking so not really sure how feasible but given they open the exits at half time so people can wander out to have a fag/vape......would it not be possible to have a food stall/van out on the car parks by the Holte/North so people could get their refreshments from there instead of all queueing at the same points and creating bottlenecks.

Maybe clear out an underused hospitality room/space in the stands and get something going in there.

I would say aswell if the half time entertainment was more interesting then you'd get a few more people staying in their seats.

I'm surprised we don't get more former players back and on the pitch for interviews, Spurs had Van Der Vaart at half time last night. Everyone saw the reception Laursen and KPA got at the Blackburn game and the stands were pretty full for that so sounds a straightforward move.

[SoccerHQ]

Is the catering services outsourced to a third party or employed by the club? Whoever is responsible for the management of catering in the stands should be sacked for incompetence.

Even if it is outsourced, that does not mean it has to be fucking awful. The club just don't seem to be able to get this sorted, though, it's laughably poor.

It's not just the produce & products of the catering provider it's the disinterested couldn't give a fuck attitude of the employees.

I once did that job (for one match) at Carrow Road as a student. By the time people had got through the queues they were thoroughly pissed off and half of them spoke to me in a way that minimum wage couldn't justify. I'm sure the same happens at VP.

Trinity Road experience goes along the lines of queue for 20 minutes for a couple of bottles of Carlsberg that is always in a fridge at the other end of the serving area, server disappears who knows where and then reappears with 2 bottles of beer that they then struggle to take the top off of whilst Trisha the catering supervisor stands at the back looking at a sheet of paper telling her what stock she has or maybe it's an email about her cats vet appointment but no way is Trisha going to serve anyone and Diane at the next till on route to the fridge gets collared by Trisha to talk about the stock email or is it her cats failing health. Who knows, they're hopeless, utterly hopeless.

Have to say for a relative new build the Trinity upper is nearly as bad as the North for bottleneck queues. Partly the way they designed it with a tight concourse which is a nightmare for sell outs like Sunday's game.

Edit: Simple thing is to go up, stay up and eventually challenge for europe again. That happens and the North would certainly be redeveloped this time so that should be a world class stand and we could improve a fair few things e.g. club museum, underground car parks, new club shop which would give a bit more flexibility.

I honestly think if we were to ever move it would be out by the NEC which would obviously be a very diverse move.

Interesting debate though, perception from neutrals seems to be Villa Park remains one of the top grounds in the country. I'm imagining plenty of championship fans who've come here in last 3 years would've thought that with what they're used to down here.

[KRS]

The Trinity is significantly worse than the Holte for getting served...before the game is bad enough with queues forming all over the place, but half time is a joke and the queues in the narrow concourse also hinder any movement along towards the toilets. Such a piss poor design.

[SoccerHQ]

The Trinity is significantly worse than the Holte for getting served...before the game is bad enough with queues forming all over the place, but half time is a joke and the queues in the narrow concourse also hinder any movement along towards the toilets. Such a piss poor design.

Not as anti Trinty stand as many but it's really poor, the stairs taking up half of the space is a big problem. Would've been better just to build a few more lifts and push it back like they do at the Emirates for anyone who's been to a game there and sat in the Upper tiers.

Witton has the excuse it was built in the 90s and has space restrictions due to the housing so ultimately that was a two tier stand that had to be crammed in, no such excuse for the Trinty.

[oldhill_avfc]

We do not fill a 43000 stadium with regularity. We struggle to sell season tickets for a few hundred quid, even with "Early Bird" offers. A friend of mine down here is about 70000th on the waiting list for a season ticket at White Hart Lane. That's the reality.

I'm 91,000th - apparently.

You get automatically added to the waiting list if you're a 'One Hotspur' member.

[dave.woodhall]

As someone said earlier, much of the problem is down to the fact that the 1993-2001 redevelopment was done on the cheap.

[London Villan]

As someone said earlier, much of the problem is down to the fact that the 1993-2001 redevelopment was done on the cheap.

Cheers Doug.

[dave.woodhall]

It wasn't just about money, either. There was a real arrogance about the Villa where the community was concerned back then, a belief that Aston was our private kingdom and we could do whatever we liked, and if we're being honest a lot of supporters felt that way as well. Naturally the local people objected to this, the council equally understandably sympathised with them, there was mutual distrust where there should have been co- operation and we ended up having to argue all the time when with a bit of understanding we could have worked with all concerned for a much better end result. However badly the Lerner years ended they set in motion the fostering of better community relations that has continued under subsequent owners. 

[Toronto Villa]

As someone said earlier, much of the problem is down to the fact that the 1993-2001 redevelopment was done on the cheap.

For a while the Holte looked like the outside of a cheap home improvement store. Wasn't it like a brown and red corrugate monstrosity?

[ktvillan]

Fans often say what a great stadium VP is and that's somewhat true of the pitch facing side of the stands.  Underneath I'd agree with Dave, Ellis produced stands with incredibly cramped space and shit facilities inside the Witton Lane stand and the North Stand. And the outsides were pure DIY superstore style. 
The Trinity isn't much better. At the Blackburn game I had to battle through massive queues and crowds that were borderline dangerous at half time to take my daughter to the toilets, which had been conveniently located right behind the queuing area. 

As well as Ellis penny pinching we seem to have had a succession of gobshite eejits as CEOs and Commercial Managers over the years.   Tom Fox was commercial director at Arsenal I believe but you wouldn't have know it after he moved to Villa. 

A lot of it is fixable, and some of it could be via quick wins. The club don't seem interested though.

[paul_e]

Even with all the other problems I think larger concourses with some natural light would help massively, I only get to 3-4 games a season but it's over a decade since I last used the concourse for anything other than getting in and out of the ground.

[Toronto Villa]

Football grounds like many other sporting venues have started to evolve from simply being functional to being much more customer focused. While traditional customers remain what used to suffice as a facility geared to providing a quick pie, pint and a piss won’t be sufficient in years to come. The next generation of stadia is starting to address that, however most existing stadia, and I would include Villa Park in that need to find a way to get with the times through an increased and improved mix of products and services.