Commercial failings

[Risso]

Great thread.

One of the inherent problems with football is the rules to do with alcohol.  At rugby matches, you can buy a drink at any point, then take it to your seat and drink it there.  At football matches, this is obviously completely prohibited.  You therefore get everybody wanting to be served in the same 10-15 minutes at half time, and if they manage it, everybody is then forced to stand in the same unwelcoming concrete box.  At Northampton rugby ground, there's a big outside area designated as a "fans' village", where there's a wide variety of different beers and and foods, and it's all very nice. (Obviously it doesn't make up for the shit, middle class tedium of watching rugby, but still.). They have something similar in one of the stands at Leeds United.

It would be hard to do that at Villa Park, because it's got main roads on two sides, and car parks at either end.  This might be heresy, but when we go back up, I'd love to see us build a new 50,000+ stadium somewhere that's much easier to get to.  The facilities are crap at Villa, the roads are a nightmare afterwards, and the public transport options are rubbish too.   Make the most of the Commonwealth Games opportunity and get us somewhere purpose built that is a pleasure to visit.  Let's face it, Villa isn't what it once was, especially since Ellis destroyed the Trinity.  That stand is just a modern stand that could be anywhere else, the North Stand is a disgusting concrete eyesore, and the Witton is rubbish.  The Holte End looks quite nice from outside, but that's about it.

[dave.woodhall]

I remember the Villa Vitality idea of decent, healthy food being sold when lerner took over.

I remember the immediate response of "Too many wankers at football now. All lads wants is pies and burgers".

And that's one of the problems. Our fanbase isn't all that arsed about paying ten quid for a water buffalo brisket on foccacia. Yes, the service for what we've got is shite but widening the range is a non-starter. 

[Risso]

There's that roast pork place in the Holte isn't there?

[Ads]

My own experience is that our facilities are very good.

The upper Holte had a number of bars over two floors and bundles of space to mill about in.

The food is poor, but then I'm a fitness Nazi and it seems the convenience option generally dire in the UK.

I'm sick of looking at the North and hearing how cramped and poor the Witton is.

Villa Park desperately needs an upgrade. If we can sell out every week for two months solid in the Chanpionship then we can do the same with 50k in the top flight. The facilities ought to match the grandiose setting that is the home of football.

[Brassneck]

When a minimum wage worker is employed to serve for a 15 minute slot at HT, (s)he will never satisfy everyone in the queue.

I fail to see how this is a commercial failing and other than opening 50 more kiosks around the ground, I don't see what the answer is?

[Ads]

You could increase the rate of pouring with those fancy bottom up pints. Beer bottle vending machines? But I suspect the upper Holte is the only part of the ground genuinely modern in the floor space.

The Emirates has its choke points in the away end. The Amex was surprisingly spacious and of course Wembley is huge.

If we were to move, then it ought to be city centre and 60,000. It's probably not feasible, but the site near the BT tower off Snow Hill. Stick the Queens Way under ground like Boston, flatten the hostels and the like and build over the car park that's there now. Probably not doable due to the gradient, but the BT Tower would be claret and blue and we'd be well stocked for quality pubs.

[maidstonevillain]

We do not fill a 43000 stadium with regularity. We struggle to sell season tickets for a few hundred quid, even with "Early Bird" offers. A friend of mine down here is about 70000th on the waiting list for a season ticket at White Hart Lane. That's the reality.

[Toronto Villa]

I remember the Villa Vitality idea of decent, healthy food being sold when lerner took over.

I remember the immediate response of "Too many wankers at football now. All lads wants is pies and burgers".

And that's one of the problems. Our fanbase isn't all that arsed about paying ten quid for a water buffalo brisket on foccacia. Yes, the service for what we've got is shite but widening the range is a non-starter. 

You don't have to go all the way though to the water buffalo brisket or prawn sandwiches (TM Roy Keane). There's lots more to offer than just pie and chips. Some of the food on offer at US sports events is outstanding and doesn't cost the earth. One of the issues (or non issues) is that that HT is so short so there is limited scope for finer cuisine, but it can be done if planned well. But the pre-match experience needs to be better and stadia like Spurs will cater to not only a football crowd but a growing demand for NFL. British football stadiums are cramped and poorly lit with sub-standard facilities. The new stadiums are a step in the right direction on many of the issues being discussed on this thread that should have been fixed ages ago.

[Marlon From Bearwood]

I agree with TV there. In the Upper North Stand, the only hot food options are vile hot dogs or pies that are so hot they take an hour to reduce to a temperature that won’t burn you mouth. That’s it.

I don’t want / expect healthy or vegan options but the lack of choice is appalling.   

We could get left behind if things don’t improve. I’ve heard that the new stand at Bristol City has a fanzone outside with food stalls, bars and live bands playing.

It could be worse though. Whilst we’re stuck in the 90s, Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday are still in the 80s. At Hillsborough the other week, one of the kiosks had the old fashioned serving hatch with a price list hand written on a scrap of paper and stuck on the wall with blue tack!

[pauliewalnuts]

I remember the Villa Vitality idea of decent, healthy food being sold when lerner took over.

I remember the immediate response of "Too many wankers at football now. All lads wants is pies and burgers".

And that's one of the problems. Our fanbase isn't all that arsed about paying ten quid for a water buffalo brisket on foccacia. Yes, the service for what we've got is shite but widening the range is a non-starter. 

That's because we're operating on a definition of football fan which is decades out of date.

Even if we are not going to improve the range of food available, we should at least be making it easier to buy the slop we currently serve up.

[pauliewalnuts]

When a minimum wage worker is employed to serve for a 15 minute slot at HT, (s)he will never satisfy everyone in the queue.

I fail to see how this is a commercial failing and other than opening 50 more kiosks around the ground, I don't see what the answer is?

Lots of customers unable to give you their money for something which they are trying to sell you is the very definition of a commercial failing.

How about improve the method of delivery so it doesn't involve a teenager sloping off down the other end of the bar every time someone fancies a beer?

I am sure other grounds employ agency staff on minimum wage to do this work as well, but most of them seem better at it than we are. Which is probably why our commercial income managed to barely improve all through the latter premier league years.

Maybe the answer is, as you said, opening more kiosks? Maybe it is redeveloping the ground? Maybe it is moving to a new ground?

Whatever it is, we need to find the answer, because we're just going to fall further and further behind.

[dave.woodhall]

I remember the Villa Vitality idea of decent, healthy food being sold when lerner took over.

I remember the immediate response of "Too many wankers at football now. All lads wants is pies and burgers".

And that's one of the problems. Our fanbase isn't all that arsed about paying ten quid for a water buffalo brisket on foccacia. Yes, the service for what we've got is shite but widening the range is a non-starter. 

That's because we're operating on a definition of football fan which is decades out of date.

Even if we are not going to improve the range of food available, we should at least be making it easier to buy the slop we currently serve up.

Or maybe us on here aren't typical. If there was a market it would be catered for by others, yet what's sold outside now is virtually identical to thirty years ago. It might be different in London but our support is still inherently small c conservative.

[darren woolley]

Great thread I know in the Holte Lower in the concourse they have those beer machines that pump beer from the bottom but the staff serving them are imbeciles I was buying beer there because it was new and there were people waiting they poured them and left them on the side of the trolly people were taking them without paying I didn't say anything I picked two up and they charged my friend for one but being honest he paid for two they need proper training so Villa don't lose money also Fanatics need to sort out the shop so we don't have a situation were we have to wait ages for the kits to be restocked when we sell out.

[pauliewalnuts]

I remember the Villa Vitality idea of decent, healthy food being sold when lerner took over.

I remember the immediate response of "Too many wankers at football now. All lads wants is pies and burgers".

And that's one of the problems. Our fanbase isn't all that arsed about paying ten quid for a water buffalo brisket on foccacia. Yes, the service for what we've got is shite but widening the range is a non-starter. 

That's because we're operating on a definition of football fan which is decades out of date.

Even if we are not going to improve the range of food available, we should at least be making it easier to buy the slop we currently serve up.

Or maybe us on here aren't typical. If there was a market it would be catered for by others, yet what's sold outside now is virtually identical to thirty years ago. It might be different in London but our support is still inherently small c conservative.

There's a market for beer on match days, but there aren't many places outside the ground catering for it. That's obviously because for them, it does not make economic sense to run pubs 7 days a week for a community which largely is abstinent.

The club, however, needs to maximise its commercial revenue on the days it is active - both in terms of flogging people food and drink and replica shirts (and probably lots of other things we haven't even mentioned).

If tastes havent changed, for example, then we can stick with beers, chips and whatever, but we at least need to find a way to actually let people buy it easily.

I recall General Krulak talking about trialling some of those incredibly fast beer pouring things, and that was at least ten years ago. Nothing seems to have changed in the meantime.

Other clubs have the same problems we do around there being 23 (or 19) home matches a year, yet they seem to manage to make considerably more money out of it than we do, and we seem to be talking about the same problems and failings we were talking about a decade ago.

If we are going to have to be self sufficient, this sort of revenue is going to be vital, yet it is beset by problems that never get fixed.

[dave.woodhall]

There's a market for beer on match days, but there aren't many places outside the ground catering for it. That's obviously because for them, it does not make economic sense to run pubs 7 days a week for a community which largely is abstinent.

The club, however, needs to maximise its commercial revenue on the days it is active - both in terms of flogging people food and drink and replica shirts (and probably lots of other things we haven't even mentioned).

If tastes havent changed, for example, then we can stick with beers, chips and whatever, but we at least need to find a way to actually let people buy it easily.

I recall General Krulak talking about trialling some of those incredibly fast beer pouring things, and that was at least ten years ago. Nothing seems to have changed in the meantime.

Other clubs have the same problems we do around there being 23 (or 19) home matches a year, yet they seem to manage to make considerably more money out of it than we do, and we seem to be talking about the same problems and failings we were talking about a decade ago.

If we are going to have to be self sufficient, this sort of revenue is going to be vital, yet it is beset by problems that never get fixed.

Pubs are permanent structures; food outlets aren't. If there was a call for certain products (and I'm not entirely certain that beer is as in demand as we might think) then someone would roll up and start selling them; a wider choice has been tried before and it's not been a success.

As I said before, I agree that the service is awful, but then again it probably is at just about every other football ground. I don't know how much revenue they make on matchdays but I do think it's unfair to compare the most modern, money no object, ground in the world with a place where much of the infrastructure has been basically unchanged for over a century. I'm sure we'd love to be able to get served as quickly as at Spurs and have a matchday set-up as lucrative as theirs although I doubt if our supporters would be willing to pay what they do.

Yes, there are a lot of things that could be improved and it's disappointing/unforgivable that we're still stuck in the old days of having to choose between not getting served at half-time and missing part of the match. That's undeniable. What the people who turn up regularly at Villa Park actually want to buy, though, is a different matter.