Tyrone Mings

[Monty]

I mean, I know a lot of people don't like Konsa at right back and I've seen the same performances they have, but I do think some have got a bit of a bee in their bonnets about it. Usually when he's not played well there neither has the midfield, and it strikes me as a bit of a coincidence that that correlation has kept so strongly. What's more likely, that Konsa ruins the midfield, or that a lack of structure left him exposed too often?

No manager's perfect, everyone's entitled to their view, etc etc. I'd just love to see Emery's hours and hours and hours of footage, data, evidence etc for justifying Konsa at right back, because by fuck I'm sure it's there.

There have been times when he's had no choice of course, when Cash has been injured. But whatever the videos and data say, it's hard not to believe that Konsa's not great there. He can't deal with pace, and going forward from right back he's terrible. Of course there have been some good results with him there, but mostly, he's a lot better in the centre than he is at right back, and Carlos isn't even close to being as good consistently as Konsa is.

No matter what you say, it's like every time we discuss this you act like Konsa's meant to play as an orthodox right back. He's not. The 'not great going forward' is irrelevant because he plays out as a right-sided centreback; the 'can't deal with pace' only happens if our midfield gets caught and turned leaving too much space in behind.

This is what I mean by the bee in the bonnet - it's a bit like the people who can't praise Cash for anything he does. 'There have been some good results' really doesn't cover it - with Konsa in that right back role (I suspect) more often than in the centre we've had our best season in decades.

[Percy McCarthy]

You also have to bear in mind that when Konsa plays at right-back, he has Carlos inside him. Cash usually has the luxury of playing with our best centre-half pairing.

Goals conceded with Cash at right-back - 45.
Konsa - 27.

Quite a difference, especially considering Konsa always plays there against the best teams.

But yeah, he’s DEFINITELY worse.

[robleflaneur]

Cash or Konsa at RB is not the problem.Missing Mings and Kamara is.
 Set pieces conceded is the case for Mings.When Kamara was in the team the stats are impressive. 20 games ,goals against 23,points 39.Injured before Man U scored their late winner.Prior to that  missed Sheff U and Burnley at home and Bournemouth away ,not the most demanding.

[robleflaneur]

And suspension meant that Kamara missed the away fixture with Man U where we let slip a 2 goal lead .
And of the 23 goals conceded in 20 games conceded,5 came in the first game.
4 from Cash  Konsa Torres,Mings and Digne or Moreno is fine
The attack scores enough
Not having a balanced midfield with a decent DM has cost us.

[Percy McCarthy]

Cash or Konsa at RB is not the problem.

I knew, just because I can still vaguely remember stuff, that we were better defensively with what Emery obviously considers our best defence. What amazed me was the absolute certainty that some posters thought we were better with Cash in there. That’s why I looked up the facts. I didn’t think they’d be quite as damning, but it was quite obvious there was a misconception going on.

[Goldenballs]

What about goals scored? We seem more dangerous going forward with Cash in the team but dunno if the stats back that up.

[Percy McCarthy]

What about goals scored? We seem more dangerous going forward with Cash in the team but dunno if the stats back that up.

I should think we would be.

It’s almost as if Emery looks up who we’re playing before he picks the team.

Cash 62, Konsa 50. Nowhere near the discrepancy on goals conceded, but like in those stats, you have to beat in mind that Konsa always plays right -back against the best teams.

[AV84]

I didn't watch it but didn't Konsa do alright for England against Brasil at RB?

[Monty]

Should say of course that I don't so much have bees in my bonnet as a hat in a hive. Nothing I don't think can be solved by another Latin midfield skill-dwarf. And I don't think Konsa's at the same level in the role as Ben White, say. I just think there's too much focus on his individual errors when I don't think they're as numerous as some think, and much of his general play considering the actual role he's asked to play.

[robleflaneur]

It's the wrong argument again.We score lots of goals because we have great skilful players in midfield and attack and pass out well from the back.
The assymetrical shape helps in possession.The left sided midfielder comes in centrally to help passing through the lines and frees up the LB to advance.Generally means,it's more difficult to block our wide players on the touchline eg Grealish at Citeh.
We have suffered when we've lost a physical battle in midfield.and not through weakness at RB.
How many full backs can handle a vg wide player on a 1 v 1,witness the joy Grealish  had and Bailey is now getting.

[Percy McCarthy]

It's the wrong argument again.We score lots of goals because we have great skilful players in midfield and attack and pass out well from the back.
The assymetrical shape helps in possession.The left sided midfielder comes in centrally to help passing through the lines and frees up the LB to advance.Generally means,it's more difficult to block our wide players on the touchline eg Grealish at Citeh.
We have suffered when we've lost a physical battle in midfield.and not through weakness at RB.
How many full backs can handle a vg wide player on a 1 v 1,witness the joy Grealish  had and Bailey is now getting.

Yes, I’m sure there are numerous reasons why we are a better side with Konsa at right back. Wrong argument or not, the madness is that some people think we are worse.

[Percy McCarthy]

I didn't watch it but didn't Konsa do alright for England against Brasil at RB?

Yes he was. Owned Vinny Jnr. Same against Belgium too I think. Doku?

[SamTheMouse]

Guardiola uses centre halves in the full back positions all the time. Seems to work for him.

[brontebilly]

Add your own context. For me the three stand outs were the Arsenal games and Man City at home. And also 10 clean sheets for Konsa against Cash’s 5.

Personally my context is that we are usually more secure with Konsa there, compared to ‘ghastly’.

Cash at right-back:

Newcastle 1-5
Everton 4-0
Palace 3-1
Chelsea 1-0
Brighton 6-1
Everton 1-2
Fulham 3-1
West Ham 4-1
AZ 4-1
Luton 3-1
Forest 0-2
Fulham 3-1
Legia 2-1
Zirinski 1-1
Sheff Utd 1-1
Boro 1-0
Chelsea 0-0
Newcastle 1-3
Chelsea 1-3
Man Utd 1-2
Fulham 2-1
Forest 4-2
Luton 3-2
Spurs 0-4
Ajax 4-0
Lille 1-2
Bournemouth 3-1
Chelsea 2-2
Olympiacos 2-4

Konsa at right-back:

Hibs 5-0
Burnley 3-1
Hibs 3-0
Liverpool 0-3
Arseanal 1-0
Man City 1-0
Arsenal 2-0
Zirinski 1-0
Wolves 1-1
AZ 2-1
Spurs 2-1
Bournemouth 2-2
Brentford 2-1
Sheff Utd 5-0
Man Utd 2-3
Burnley 3-2
Everton 0-0
Ajax 0-0
West Ham 1-1
Wolves 2-0
Man City 4-1
Brentford 3-3
Lille 2-1
Brighton 0-1
Olympiacos 0-2
Liverpool 3-3

Konsa was terrible in that home game v Arsenal. He was roasted by Martinelli I think it was...until the much maligned Matty Cash came on and locked down that flank. Wolves at home, from memory Konsa had a decent game and scored. The final six games you mention above after it, he had a shocker in each and every one of them.

Spurs 0-4...we had that rancid set up with Cash ahead of Konsa. When we play that way...the right flank is where the ball goes to die!

[Percy McCarthy]

Add your own context. For me the three stand outs were the Arsenal games and Man City at home. And also 10 clean sheets for Konsa against Cash’s 5.

Personally my context is that we are usually more secure with Konsa there, compared to ‘ghastly’.

Cash at right-back:

Newcastle 1-5
Everton 4-0
Palace 3-1
Chelsea 1-0
Brighton 6-1
Everton 1-2
Fulham 3-1
West Ham 4-1
AZ 4-1
Luton 3-1
Forest 0-2
Fulham 3-1
Legia 2-1
Zirinski 1-1
Sheff Utd 1-1
Boro 1-0
Chelsea 0-0
Newcastle 1-3
Chelsea 1-3
Man Utd 1-2
Fulham 2-1
Forest 4-2
Luton 3-2
Spurs 0-4
Ajax 4-0
Lille 1-2
Bournemouth 3-1
Chelsea 2-2
Olympiacos 2-4

Konsa at right-back:

Hibs 5-0
Burnley 3-1
Hibs 3-0
Liverpool 0-3
Arseanal 1-0
Man City 1-0
Arsenal 2-0
Zirinski 1-0
Wolves 1-1
AZ 2-1
Spurs 2-1
Bournemouth 2-2
Brentford 2-1
Sheff Utd 5-0
Man Utd 2-3
Burnley 3-2
Everton 0-0
Ajax 0-0
West Ham 1-1
Wolves 2-0
Man City 4-1
Brentford 3-3
Lille 2-1
Brighton 0-1
Olympiacos 0-2
Liverpool 3-3

Konsa was terrible in that home game v Arsenal. He was roasted by Martinelli I think it was...until the much maligned Matty Cash came on and locked down that flank. Wolves at home, from memory Konsa had a decent game and scored. The final six games you mention above after it, he had a shocker in each and every one of them.

Spurs 0-4...we had that rancid set up with Cash ahead of Konsa. When we play that way...the right flank is where the ball goes to die!

The Spurs game wasn’t like that. It was a back five, not like the Burnley away game for instance, which is the set up you describe.

Generally results and goals against are better when Konsa plays right back, despite the fact that Emery always picks him there against the better teams, if he can.