Tyrone Mings

[trinityoap]

Complete the following sentence---Mings is useless and should be replaced by (insert name of better, available and achievable centre back).

[AV82EC]

I asked the same question about 3 weeks ago….

Tumbleweed……

[LukeJames]

Complete the following sentence---Mings is useless and should be replaced by (insert name of better, available and achievable centre back).

This reminds me of the Who could we get thats better than Steve Bruce argument?

[Bent Neilsens Screamer]

It came at him quickly and was a natural reflex to kick the ball anywhere. He was unfortunate it went straight to the Leeds dude.

That was my take on it, his weight seemed to be transferred to his standing left foot so his right didn’t have the momentum to carry any strength to get the ball away, all he could do was block it and it fell kindly to their player.

[Drummond]

He's a great leader and player.

[Brazilian Villain]

I asked the same question about 3 weeks ago….

Tumbleweed……

Who does he play for? Sounds like he'd be good at covering any space left at the back.

[OCD]

Can he play as a defensive midfielder?

[AV82EC]

Complete the following sentence---Mings is useless and should be replaced by (insert name of better, available and achievable centre back).

This reminds me of the Who could we get thats better than Steve Bruce argument?

Except I'm struggling to think of anyone on this website who made that argument. And in addition, the Managers and players you have are a reflection of, or relative to, where you are in the industry at that time.

[ChicagoLion]

Complete the following sentence---Mings is useless and should be replaced by (insert name of better, available and achievable centre back).

This reminds me of the Who could we get thats better than Steve Bruce argument?

Was the answer a cabbage?

[brontebilly]

Konsa was poor last night as well, but that doesn’t excuse Mings. That pass straight to their player was inexcusable. The lung busting runs forward would be OK if they were on top of him doing his day job well, which he isn’t. As well as the mistakes leading directly to goals, there were also the times he just passed the ball straight out of play when under no pressure.

He was off-balance and it was an instinctive slice away from goal. Reflexes more than anything, harsh to blame him.

I had a premonition we were going to concede from that corner. It must be a Villa (or football generally) trope where a defender makes a goal-saving intervention much to everyone's delight only to bugger-up in the next phase of play. Within the space of a minute, he saved with his face and chest off the line, then did the Rocky Balboa charging header over the bar to concede a corner before assisting the equaliser.

Bless him but he's too much at the heart of what we do. Konsa is not as noticeable and quietly gets on with his game which in some ways is preferable in a centre back but you can't fault Tyrone's willingness to fight for his team. I'd like a 30 year-old Gary Cahill beside him to take the pressure off and teach him. Again, I come back to Mings' England performances at the Euros. Barely noticeable, no mistakes, clean sheets etc. I think his early form at Villa, given demi-God status as we powered to promotion has almost informed the type of player he feels he has to be for us, further accentuated by him becoming captain. He feeds-off the responsibility but his natural defects sometimes shine a harsh light on the mistakes he makes. Still love him though.

England were playing a back 6 or 7 in those Euros games weren't they? Rice and Phillips sitting ahead of Mings against Lyndon Dykes and the likes. He did well but that's as handy a gig as you can get.

As his eventual replacement Maguire is finding to his cost at club level this season, the days of centre backs in the modern game being allowed to sit deep with two holding midfielders in front of them is over. Mings either adapts and improves or he will be moved on.

If Luiz, McGinn, Nakamba or whoever don't have the technical ability (McG or Naka) or moral courage (Luiz) to take the ball off the back on the half turn under pressure then Mings shouldn't be trying to cover for their failures by running it out. It was a clear tactic from Leeds to allow that last night and we fell into their trap.

[Nii Lamptey]

I can see the criticism of him is sometimes warranted, but fucking hell some of you need to take a look at yourselves. The vitriol aimed at him in some quarters is ridiculous.

As someone mentioned above, he'd just made 2 goal line clearances and was off balance when he kicked it to the Leeds player for their third. If the rest of the defense and midfield had put the same amount of effort in yesterday, we wouldn't have lost that game.

He's the captain of our club. A bloody great ambassador for our club, and a brilliant role model for our Villa supporting kids (especially compared to the last one!).

I really hope he doesn't read some of the bollocks written about him on here and social media. Part of me wonders if it is because fans take offense to his intelligence and thoughtfulness sometimes, and would much prefer a thick as shit, womanising local pisshead with shit dress sense/haircut instead.

Be careful what you wish for is all I'd say.

[Simon Page]

Most of our players are exactly what we are as a club - very good mid-table Premier League, which also makes them tough but not impossible to replace with someone better. A lot of the debate is framed in the internet extremities of someone being either a worldie or shit. They're neither, but saying they are decent players - sometimes brilliant, sometimes not - isn't cathartic and doesn't make for an interesting forum.

[supertom]

The only thing I'll say in defence of Mings, is that CH's these days are far more often than not, prone to a rick. There are more expensive, more high profile players than Mings who seem to have 2-3 fuck ups a game. Basically, defending is crap for most sides these days and the only sides who tend to be good defensively, do so by being very effective at keeping the ball and in offense.

That being said. Mings does need to be upgraded if we have top 6 aspirations. Honestly, Konsa probably does too. But the game yesterday was the very best and worst in Mings perfectly encapsulated. A Maldini-esque surging run. A great block and a fantastic last ditch header in two Leeds attacks, shortly before a piss poor tapped clearence straight to Llorente for their equaliser.

So yeah, Mings needs improving upon but to get better we'll be spending upwards of 40-50 mill and then there's no guarantee you get someone less error prone. You might get a CH more consistent on the ball and better at getting us forward on the transition quickly (where Mings flits between woeful and pretty good, with the occasionally surprising brilliant moment).

If you asked me to name 10 rock solid, error proof defenders in World football, I'd struggle (VVD on his game, but even he's had some ropey games in the last 18 months). I could name you dozens of brilliant midfielders and attackers. Defenders don't like defending any more.

Part of our problem is also less Mings, and more the lack of a defensive midfielder who can effectively slip back in between our CH's whilst our fully's have bombed on. We give away more chances/set pieces than we might on the transition. Doug is great on the ball but is never close to opposition players. McGinn is aggressive but often like a Jack Russell chasing a tennis ball.

[FatSam]

I'm more than happy with Mings. His overall contribution outweighs the mistakes that he makes. All defenders make mistakes, even Paul McGrath used to .... occasionally. I don't hold Mings wholly responsible for the second and third goals last night, as some people on here seem to. If he is the one constantly defending the goal line, then sometimes he will be the hero (like when he headed away twice in quick succession), and sometimes he won't.

There have been times in the last couple of years when we have been conceding enormous numbers of shots on goal. At the same time he has been recording enormous numbers of blocks. If he had more protection in front of him, and someone winning headers on the 6-yard line at corners, he would make less of what some people are categorising as "mistakes".

Konsa and Mings are a good partnership. They complement each other, and Konsa wouldn't be able to glide around the place without Mings doing the dirty work. Introducing Tuanzebe in-between them didn't work. It's important to have a left-sided centre back who can make progressive passes. With some movement ahead of him, he does this well IMO.

I'm not saying that Mings can't be improved upon, but it would be a Van Dijk or Dias type signing, who we may or may not be able to attract without CL football. I'd be looking to improve the midfield long before replacing Mings. 

[paul_e]

If Luiz, McGinn, Nakamba or whoever don't have the technical ability (McG or Naka) or moral courage (Luiz) to take the ball off the back on the half turn under pressure then Mings shouldn't be trying to cover for their failures by running it out. It was a clear tactic from Leeds to allow that last night and we fell into their trap.

How exactly was that trap and how did we fall into it?

We nearly scored from one of those breaks and none of their goals came as a result of Mings carrying the ball out of defence.

We made a few defensive mistakes (as a unit) and they were punished, it wasn't because of some masterplan Bielsa came up with to target Mings by letting him have space on the ball.