The International Cricket Thread

[olaftab]

Smith yes that so cleansed tearful Smith scrubbing off Pant's guard marks during drinks break was disgraceful.

[paul_e]

Stuff like this is a big part of why I don't see Smith as a true great as his figures would suggest. The other big part is that I just don't like watching him play. If you watch at players like Williamson, Kohli and Root when they get going they just look right (I'd add a few others here as well but those 4 were the ones who were all fighting out to be the best in the world a couple of years back), Smith has great hand eye co-ordination and timing so he's effective but his style is janky and despite his success I can't stop thinking that someone will work him out because it just looks like there's got to be fundamental flaws in how square he is.

[Rory]

Stuff like this is a big part of why I don't see Smith as a true great as his figures would suggest. The other big part is that I just don't like watching him play. If you watch at players like Williamson, Kohli and Root when they get going they just look right (I'd add a few others here as well but those 4 were the ones who were all fighting out to be the best in the world a couple of years back), Smith has great hand eye co-ordination and timing so he's effective but his style is janky and despite his success I can't stop thinking that someone will work him out because it just looks like there's got to be fundamental flaws in how square he is.

Agreed, Paul. He looks very awkward at the crease whether he's on 0, 20 or 200.

[Meanwood Villa]

No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.

[paul_e]

No one's worked him out yet! He's an absolutely brilliant player even if he is an unlovable Aussie cock.

That's my point though, I watch him and know he's a brilliant batsman but I still can't stop myself seeing all kinds of problems with his technique. I get the impression that is part of his effectiveness, bowlers get drawn into bowling at the clear weaknesses but he's expecting exactly that and uses it to his advantage.

[Monty]

People used to say similar things about Bradman. Awkward, inelegant, an accumulator more than a scorer, more power than finesse, all of it. Smith may look like a broken puppet during the bowler's run-up, but how incredibly in line he gets by the point of delivery is all part of his process. No doubt in England we'd have 'corrected' his technique and ended up with a worse player.

In the end, in cricket numbers are hard to argue with. Smith doesn't live in a dud period for bowling, yet his average is what it is. He's 9th on the all-time run scorers list in Tests at the age of 30 and the only player on that list to be shy of 100 caps (a whopping 29 shy, in fact). He's got the highest average of all players ever to have played at least as many tests as he has. He is a lot of things, but he's also clearly a batting genius.

[Rory]

People used to say similar things about Bradman. Awkward, inelegant, an accumulator more than a scorer, more power than finesse, all of it. Smith may look like a broken puppet during the bowler's run-up, but how incredibly in line he gets by the point of delivery is all part of his process. No doubt in England we'd have 'corrected' his technique and ended up with a worse player.

In the end, in cricket numbers are hard to argue with. Smith doesn't live in a dud period for bowling, yet his average is what it is. He's 9th on the all-time run scorers list in Tests at the age of 30 and the only player on that list to be shy of 100 caps (a whopping 29 shy, in fact). He's got the highest average of all players ever to have played at least as many tests as he has. He is a lot of things, but he's also clearly a batting genius.

I don't disagree Monty. He is a very idiosyncratic batsman and that's part of what makes him so difficult to bowl at, and you're right that if the ECB or a county had got hold of him, they would've tried to iron that out and probably resulted in an inferior player.

What I find most remarkable is that for a batsman who relies so much on hand-eye coordination, he had such a weak record until five or so years ago. He was considered primarily a spinner and fielder in his early career, and it's not as if he's gone away and come back with a new technique. Instead, he seemed to improve his timing and determination/stubbornness - two things that are usually there to begin with in most batsmen.

He's kind of done the opposite to what is traditional. Rather than having the initial raw ingredients and then developing the technical side, he's improved the raw ingredients instead.

[Monty]

Interesting point Rory. I think it's somewhere between the two - in developing his own weird technique, stubbornly as you say, he found his rhythm, and thus the timing to match the quickness of his eye.

He's not the first player to start his career as a bowler or batsman and switch (Sobers springs to mind, though of course he didn't switch so much as expand his range to include everything), but perhaps the most dramatic example in recent years, and the one with whom it shows the most (I did once describe him as the greatest ever tailender and, while that's obviously flippant, there is something in that I think).

Cricket is a strange sport, full of late-bloomers and surprising resurgences. Even within that, however, Smith is a total phenomenon.

Edit: I should say, I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's personal preferences. I don't think I'll ever enjoy watching a batsman more than I loved watching Lara (though there is a special place in my heart for Sangakkara), but when we talk about greatness we have more objective criteria to help.

[paul_e]

I completely agree that his numbers are what really matters it is just a personal thing that I don't particularly like watching him. The bigger thing that holds him back for me, as I said, is that I just don't like him, he's a liar and a cheat and I hope he gets a kicking for his latest round of c**t-ery.

[aj2k77]

Yep, don't care for him as a sportsman he's just a bit of a little, snivelly, blubbering cheat really. When he gets caught red-handed he turns on the tears. Little twat, I'd sledge him like nobodies business next ashes. Whether he's scored 5 or a double century. He's a cock.

I really dislike him.

[Monty]

Little twat, I'd sledge him like nobodies business next ashes.

An example of how lovely we are too.

[manic-road]

A really good day for England in Sri Lanka so far on the first day, couple of streaky wickets as well.

[manic-road]

Sri Lanka won the toss and elected to bat first and are 135 all out, a very good day for England.

[paul_e]

Can't see England piling on a massive lead though, this looks a tough pitch to score on and we haven't played very much cricket for 6months.

Both openers gone so Bairstow and Root in the middle, the good part of that is these 2 are both good players of spin so if they can be patient and focused this could be the key partnership.

[paul_e]

Root survives on review but I have questions over the umpire there, if the batsman is deep in his crease and gets hit above his pads the chances are that it's missing on height even if it looks decent.