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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1522373 times)

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12675 on: May 10, 2021, 01:32:47 PM »
Football Insider reckoning that Mendes is lining up Nuno Santo for us. What a crock of shit, and the BBC keeps on giving them oxygen.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12676 on: May 10, 2021, 01:35:11 PM »
I'd agree with Drummond on virtually every assessment above apart from El Ghazi.

He's a tough one, he hasn't been brilliant but he's been very effective at times and that has won us points, that's 2 things I'd like in all of our attacking squad players.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12677 on: May 10, 2021, 01:37:16 PM »
I'd agree with Drummond on virtually every assessment above apart from El Ghazi.

He's a tough one, he hasn't been brilliant but he's been very effective at times and that has won us points, that's 2 things I'd like in all of our attacking squad players.

It is. And I wasn't sure, but he's scored more goals for us than many strikers have over the years. And he tries. Overall he's not the best out there but he's better than he was.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12678 on: May 10, 2021, 01:48:24 PM »
I'd agree with Drummond on virtually every assessment above apart from El Ghazi.

He's a tough one, he hasn't been brilliant but he's been very effective at times and that has won us points, that's 2 things I'd like in all of our attacking squad players.

Would you give him a new deal out of interest Paul?

I think that's the issue we have with a few of our 2019 intake now.

Likes of Engels, Freddie, AEG, Nakamba and Hause all got two years left on their deal I think.

Obviously no brainer to keep someone like Hause as back up as he's happy part of prem squad and did an excellent job when needed with those 4-5 games over xmas.

For the others I suspect we'll be looking to move them all on bar AEG but even he's difficult to call. Has stats of 15-20m player this season so his value will never be higher.

We keep him but obviously sign better and he will play much less next season and at that point have 12 months left.

It's important in the long run we just don't rely on the owners to keep pumping in 100m every single summer. The likes of Chelsea regularly sell their endless loan players and get in 40-50m most summers so they've become a bit more self sufficent so we've got that opportunity ourselves.

Can't see the point of hanging onto Gulibert and Nakamba just for them to play league cup next year.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12679 on: May 10, 2021, 01:54:03 PM »
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Offline hipkiss92

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12680 on: May 10, 2021, 02:18:56 PM »
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12681 on: May 10, 2021, 02:27:50 PM »
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.

I meant more Axel, AEM Taylor, Whelan, Jack, Hourihane, Adomah. All played just as much in 18/19 if not more than in 17/18 considering we had Hutton instead of Taylor at LB for the 2018 run in.

Decent enough spine once things settled down that season and Tammy was obviously an upgrade on Grabban. El Ghazi took a while to get going but I thought he was a very good outlet for us in the promotion run in. McGinn aswell we didn't have in 17/18 either.

I remember in the weeks after the Fulham defeat and we were on the brink of financial ruin and practically had the squad up for sale and people were still demanding we went up under Bruce the following season. I suspect much of that was just people wanting Bruce out so just setting unrealistic expectations and so it happened two months into the season but ultimately with the squad we ended up with not getting into the top 6 that season would've been a failure and likely set us back years again.

I can't remember too many people tipping Leeds to go up in June 2018. They'd just finished 13th so just to finish in play offs was a very good effort from them.

Offline paul_e

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12682 on: May 10, 2021, 02:52:22 PM »
I can't remember too many people tipping Leeds to go up in June 2018. They'd just finished 13th so just to finish in play offs was a very good effort from them.

I think the state of the defence when Smith came in is the huge mitigating factor, Bruce had completely fucked the squad balance up and left us in an awful position. Aside from that even if the team from the previous season was all still there I specifically said Bielsa had HIS squad. Very few managers would go into any team in the world and not want to add a few of their own players to put their identity on the team, that's why I'm not a fan of sacking managers with less than 3 transfer windows, that's the point where they have their own squad to work with in my opinion.


Would you give him a new deal out of interest Paul?


If Trez wasn't out for a long time I'd probably have looked to cash in on AEG this window, I like him and think he's a very useful backup option but I don't think either of them are good enough to be the 3rd choice wide player at a top 6 club. With Trez out it's harder to know what to do. I think I'd still consider letting him go to bring in someone with a higher ceiling, would mean we might need to rely on JPB on the bench at times but I'm ok with that.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12683 on: May 10, 2021, 02:57:51 PM »
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.

Remind me again how many players were ours at the end of the play-off final.

Offline hipkiss92

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12684 on: May 10, 2021, 03:11:19 PM »
Bielsa has been with Leeds longer, had most of HIS squad in place before promotion and carried the momentum of winning the league that meant his summer signings were from a similar pool to ours, 1 year earlier.

Smith had to focus on numbers and bedding in a completely new squad in his first season and could focus on adding quality this year. Given there's still every chance we'll finish above Leeds anyway I don't think there's much between the 2 teams. Do people really expect the team that finishes 17th in the premier league to be starting from a significantly higher base than the team that wins the championship?

Wasn't that Leeds squad finishing mid table when he took over whereas DS still had the baulk of the 3rd place 17/18 to work with so have to factor that in a bit aswell.

Bielsa and Smith have both done very well last 2-3 years. However think the debate is which one can really kick on over next 2 years with more spending.

Interesting looking at leeds and considering many were slaughtering how bad defensively they were mid season they've just played Chelsea, Man. United, Man. City, Spurs and Liverpool in last two months and conceded 3 goals so he's adapted quitely.

It's a bit like O'Neill here and the feeling he wasn't quite getting as much out of the resources as likes of Moyes and Redknapp who finished above him albeit it was marginal.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think we'll finish higher than 8th in prem with DS in charge. However he fully deserves the chance to prove me wrong next season, he's done so already.

Johnstone, Terry, Snodgrass, Grabban were no longer at the club come the start of the season after the play off final, and Chester wasn't seen again once we bought in Mings in the January window. Pretty much the spine of the 17 / 18 apart from JG.

Remind me again how many players were ours at the end of the play-off final.

Exactly. Smith effectively started with a squad that had only been together for 2 months when he took over, and then needed major surgery again in the January, before a second complete rebuild after we went up. Last summer was the first time he was able to build from a position of relative stability (if finishing 17th by one point classes as stability).

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12685 on: May 10, 2021, 03:12:45 PM »
I think the comparisons with Leeds and Bielsa are ridiculous so I’m going to turn them on their head. Bielsa has vast experience as a coach, managing some top club and international teams over many years. Despite this, with a similar squad, Leeds are only two points ahead of Dean Smith’s Villa, at the beginning of his managerial career previously coaching Walsall and Brentford and we have a game in hand. To go a step further, just two points ahead of Leeds we have a self proclaimed “big six” club Arsenal with a Guardiola apprentice, arguably the best coach ever, at the helm, a meagre four points ahead of same Dean Smith. I think I know why I’m happy with our manager.

Could also flip it to compare that Leeds in the first season in the division look set for a top half finish. We stayed up by a point. Leeds have also done it with far less of a budget and a distinct style of play. Our style of play appears based on the availability and fitness of one player, when he isn't available we don't have one.

I do agree that comparing Smith to Bielsa is a bit unfair. Smith is just about on track with pre season expectations, the loss of his best player for 11? games also should be taken into account.
Why is it unfair, who should we compare him to then?

Bielsa is one of the best coaches in Europe with huge experience. Could always compare Smith to Chris Wilder I guess who came up the same season as us and had a great first season. Spent big money on a new keeper and striker last summer who have flopped spectacularly.

Offline Damo70

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12686 on: May 10, 2021, 03:24:15 PM »
In recent interviews, Dean has been on and on about how he had a complete group of novices last season and how much of a challenge it was to stay up. I’ve actually never seen him admit that he’s a complete novice who has just as much to learn.

I think our squad is way better than what it is currently showing, and he should own it...


Luiz used to be good .

McGinn used to be amazing

Martinez is not at the same standard he was

Barkley is nowhere near what he was when he first joined.

I think Cash is also not as good as earlier in the season.

Watkins would get more goals in a better system.

Traore could be much more consistent.

We are so quick to blame players, but a coach’s job is  to “coach”. In other words Improve players..

So I ask

how many of our players have improved this season.(from last season or if they are new from when they first joined?

For me: just one player / Matt Targett , possibly Konsa

Luiz - poor season
McGinn slightly inconsistent
Martinez top notch
Barkley briefly good at the start, very poor since
Cash decent
Watkins impressive
Traore hit and miss but I rate him.

Offline aj2k77

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12687 on: May 10, 2021, 04:21:12 PM »
Are people still arguing over Bielsa and Smith? There's a reason why one has managed in multiple countries, a national team and spent his career in the top flights. Smiths done a good job here but you'll not find many people outside of Villa Park who think he's the better manager.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12688 on: May 10, 2021, 04:21:26 PM »
Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time- agree
Konsa is way better than last season -agree and becoming a great player
Mings is getting far more consistent- disagree still making too many stupid mistakes that cost goals
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division- agreed
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.- he gets a pass from me as he is carrying the midfield
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in. Has been pretty poor lately and can’t tackle- lots of room for improvement
Grealish is better this season than last. Disagree he kept us up last season
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals. Not good enough and if he does not score he makes little contribution
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind. We can afford one luxury player, unfortunately with Barkley Smith is playing 2
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory. Agree Super player
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured.
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play- Should have played more not been used properly by Smith
Ramsay is doing better all the time. -Should be playing ahead of Barkley.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.
Smith gets a C based on the above. Needs to do better to match the clubs ambition.

Offline Allan C

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #12689 on: May 10, 2021, 06:19:03 PM »
Martinez has done better this season than last.
Cash is doing better all the time- agree
Konsa is way better than last season -agree and becoming a great player
Mings is getting far more consistent- disagree still making too many stupid mistakes that cost goals
Targett is arguably the most improved player in the division- agreed
McGinn doesn't appear as good as he did because he isn't the stand-out player that he was.- he gets a pass from me as he is carrying the midfield
Luiz is getting better yet is still prone to the odd mistake. But he gets stuck in. Has been pretty poor lately and can’t tackle- lots of room for improvement
Grealish is better this season than last. Disagree he kept us up last season
AEG is better and more consistent, and scoring goals. Not good enough and if he does not score he makes little contribution
Traore has improved as the season has progressed in my view, still needs to work on his defensive skills mind. We can afford one luxury player, unfortunately with Barkley Smith is playing 2
Watkins seems to be on a steep trajectory. Agree Super player
Trez was being lauded earlier this season, had a dip then came again and unfortunately got injured.
Davis has scored a goal and provided an assist in relatively low minutes on the pitch and people would like him to play- Should have played more not been used properly by Smith
Ramsay is doing better all the time. -Should be playing ahead of Barkley.
We've other youngsters coming through too.

So yes, I think Smith is doing a good job. We've just hit a patch, without one of the world's best players, where it's not going our way. On our day though, we're a match for anyone.
Smith gets a C based on the above. Needs to do better to match the clubs ambition.
Clearly the club ambition is to be a constant top 4 club, qualifying for CL each season. What we don’t know is the timescale that has been set for Smith to achieve it. That timescale could well be three seasons away, maybe sooner. Whatever the timescale, promotion to PL survival to mid possible top half finish with an improving squad is real progress and better than a C

 


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