Dean Smith - Confirmed

[Brazilian Villain]

Now after over a decade it feels like we're not that far off them or Arsenal now, indeed the league table still indicates that so big chance over next few years to start finishing above those two if we can get the big deals right and Spurs will have to sell Kane before too long.

Do that and that should be europa league football so we're not that far away imo but then it's easier to get from 10th to 7th than 6th to 4th as we've seen many teams struggle to do that.

Agreed, really only see Citeh, Liverpool and Chelsea as streets ahead atm. Still not wholly convinced by Ole and Yanited despite them in 2nd. A couple of injuries to key players like Bruno Fernandes might see them regress next season.

[dave.woodhall]

I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either.

[Chris Smith]

I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

I’m not sure there is much more to be wrung out of this squad even by someone like Tuchel. I see the way to join the ‘elite’ is to have a squad of players of a comparable quality. If we get to that point then we’re comparing like for like with Dean and we’ll see how good he is.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I am really concerned about our run-in though. Everton, United, Palace, Spurs and Chelsea is a pretty unkind few games, and if we fail to win any of them where will we finish, and how will that affect Dean's position in the minds of the owners?

On paper they look tough games but we seem to raise our game against the better sides. Somebody mentioned we should judge Dean over the whole season which normally I would wholly support, the problem is it hasn't been a normal season where we win one, lose another, it's been brilliant up until the new year and painful thereafter.

Last night there was a much needed small improvement. We need to build on it until the end of the season and I'd say the players owe it to Dean.

[Brazilian Villain]

I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either.

We're well aware of your views on Dean and I said I'm happy enough to give him another season to prove me wrong. However his tactical inflexibility and tardy substitutions are a cause of frustration at times.

[dave.woodhall]

I think Dean Smith has done a great job since he came

But my own personal view is he will not be good enough to build a team to take us into the top six...

I agree with this and the rest of your post. I also agree with Risso that there's no point switching for another 'okay' manager. I'm happy to let DS prove me wrong for another season but a poor remaining run-in and start to next season may hasten his demise.

I think we need to look at Chelsea. 'Club Legend' Frank was doing an okay job but there was a top class manager available in Tuchel and they showed no sentiment and made the change. That will likely make the difference between a Europa League spot and a CL spot for them this season and it's the way we have to start thinking if we wish to rejoin the 'elite'.

He wasn't good enough to get us up, keep us up or take us mid-table either.

We're well aware of your views on Dean and I said I'm happy enough to give him another season to prove me wrong. However his tactical inflexibility and tardy substitutions are a cause of frustration at times.

That they may be, but virtually since the day he was appointed he's been achieving things that he's supposedly not good enough for.   

[SoccerHQ]

Think Leicester is example we like to use as realistic club who have pushed into top 6 consistantly now with some really smart signings (and also knowing when to cash in on key players like Maguire and Chilwell).

This was their league position for the final game of Claude Puel two years ago:

https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=59028.12435

12th and that was with Vardy, Maguire, Schmiechel, Ndidi, Chilwell, Maddison Periera etc.

I think we're still a year away from that but does show their board thought they were underachieving under Puel and they went and got Rodgers who was actually in a job at the time and it's proved a brilliant decision.

I don't quite buy no other manager in world football would've just done the same things as Dean has in Jack's absence and given us the same record, I personally think a few would've kept us in the top 10 by winning another game or two by trying different stuff like 3 at the back or giving Davis many more minutes.

That's the nagging feeling I have about this season in that we've just given up on finishing top 10 a little too easily so up to DS to prove me wrong next season otherwise he will be under plenty of pressure this time next year.

[Virgil Caine]

My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach. 

[Mister E]

I’m not sure there is much more to be wrung out of this squad even by someone like Tuchel. I see the way to join the ‘elite’ is to have a squad of players of a comparable quality. If we get to that point then we’re comparing like for like with Dean and we’ll see how good he is.

I wholly agree with your sentiment with the proviso that Traore, AEG, Barkley and McGinn may have more to be wrung from; and, the slightly two-dimensional tactical approach from Smith could be improved.
But your key point that his success should be viewed when the we're on a level playing field with the better sides is bang on.

[paul_e]

I think we're a couple of players short of a really good side.

Spurs have Kane and Son, Arsenal Pepe, Aubameyang and Lacazette, Man Utd have Greenwood, Rashford, Fernandez, Man City have well, pretty much everyone, and Liverpool have Salah, Firmino and Sane. They are all the sort of players we'd like to sign and that would make us better.

If you look at Leicester, they have Vardy, Iheanacho, Barnes and Maddison, Everton have got Rodriguez, Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Mina.

West Ham have got Lingard and Soucek but other players doing well too like Cresswell.

We're pretty much all happy with our defence and keeper which is why I've tried to keep this to forward thinking players but the reality is we're behind all of those teams in terms of having the quality to make a real difference. Grealish is our one player like that and Watkins, in his first season in the top flight is proving to be so too.

Smith can only work with what he's got and I'm not sure many other managers would do any better.

Agreed - a front three of Grealish-Watkins-"AN Other", where the AN Other is very pacy and has top-4 quality would make us a formidable attacking threat.  Not much depth up front though, and we need to improve the midfield too, but make our first-choice front three top 4 quality and I think the rest will follow.   

Maybe this is the transfer window for us to have our "Robinho moment", where finally make a signing that makes people stand up and take notice of what's happening at Villa park?

Funnily enough, I was thinking the same about Robinho last night. We tried with Barkley to lift things a bit but he's proven to not be the one we needed; need to try again.

Robinho was 24, Brazil's current golden boy, and in-demand from pretty much every club in the world when City signed him.  I don't see us getting someone quite of that calibre (guess that would a Jadon Sancho today?).  I think we're looking at the next level down, but I hope the next one isn't just someone who can't get a game for Chelsea or whoever their respective team is.

Gouiri or Malen for me (but the latter will be hard to get, a lot of CL league teams have been linked with him, most recently Liverpool.

[Ad@m]

My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach. 

I'm a Smith fan but there's not a chance any of Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds, Everton or Leicester would employ him as head coach.  That's not to say he's not good enough, he's just never won anything and those clubs recruit proven winners (with the exception of Arsenal's emotional decision to employ Arteta).

[paul_e]

My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach. 

I'm a Smith fan but there's not a chance any of Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds, Everton or Leicester would employ him as head coach.  That's not to say he's not good enough, he's just never won anything and those clubs recruit proven winners (with the exception of Arsenal's emotional decision to employ Arteta).

The bold bit is so badly wrong that I ignored the rest, Leeds have employed ONE good manager in the last 20 years, lets not go all sky and reinvent them as something other than a club that spent years cast adrift before chancing their arm on a manager which was a big risk and it working out better than anyone would've expected.

[SheffieldVillain]

My only criticism of Dean Smith is around the lack of flexibility around playing formation, everything else I believe is perfectly OK. The key question would be the perception of other CEO's of clubs and whether or not if he came available if they would hire him. I believe Arsenal and Spurs would out of the 'top 6' then certainly Palace, Burnley , Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds potentially Everton and Leicester. Personal view only but perhaps a measure of his worth and qualities as a man-manager and coach. 

I'm a Smith fan but there's not a chance any of Arsenal, Spurs, Leeds, Everton or Leicester would employ him as head coach.  That's not to say he's not good enough, he's just never won anything and those clubs recruit proven winners (with the exception of Arsenal's emotional decision to employ Arteta).

While agreeing with your general point, Leeds are a strange club to pick to make it - their last five managers before Bielsa were Paul Heckingbottom, Thomas Christiansen, Garry Monk, Steve Evans and Uwe Rosler. In fact virtually every appointment they've made for 20 years bar Bielsa is the very opposite of recruiting a proven winner.

Everton pretty similar to be honest pre-Ancelotti. Roberto Martinez (1 F.A. cup) and Mauro Silva (nothing) weren't proven winners when they were put in charge.

Edit - paul_e beat me to it!

[Risso]

Leeds might have had a load of shit prior to Bielsa, but now they're back in the Premier League *with* Bielsa, it'd be hard to see them going for somebody like Smith when they find themselves needing a new coach.

[SoccerHQ]

Robinho equivilant would be Vinicius Jr. Real Madrid would've probably loaned him out before he scored twice v Liverpool. Rodrygo might be one to look at, started at the weekend for them but he hasn't played a huge amount under Zidane in recent times. Only 20 and wide player.