Dean Smith - Confirmed

[RamboandBruno]

I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

I am about where you are. Never known such anger at the prospect of finishing 11th after a decade of either flirting with relegation, being relegated, or being in the championship. Frustration and a bit of disappointment of what could of been yes, but the kind of radical changes some people want seem a bit out of context to the situation.

[Risso]

I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

I am about where you are. Never known such anger at the prospect of finishing 11th after a decade of either flirting with relegation, being relegated, or being in the championship. Frustration and a bit of disappointment of what could of been yes, but the kind of radical changes some people want seem a bit out of context to the situation.

Who's angry? I'd like to see us have a better manager next season, but I'm not going to kick the dog if it doesn't happen.

[paul_e]

Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc

Grealish is our best player by a country mile.  Just like he'd be the best player in pretty much any other team in the world.  It's hardly surprising that we struggle when he's out.

Smith brought Barkley in to take some of the pressure off Jack but it's turned out he's crap!  Until we get better players we're always going to struggle without one of the best players in the world.

We’ve spent two hundred and fucking fifty million pounds on players
And we are still totally reliant on the player that’s been with us since the age of six

That’s not right
That cannot be right it’s not credible it’s pathetic
You can excuse it all Want but surely when you look at it you have to admit that is a sorry state of affairs

The slight issue I have with this is the bold bit, when termed that way, sounds a lot worse than "still totally reliant on one of the best players in Europe". We have lots of, in my opinion, top half/mid table players but right now there's only 3-4 top 4 standard players (Grealish, Konsa, Martinez and maybe Watkins) so losing the one of them that is our main creator has a massive impact.

[eamonn]

I actually think we can still finish above Everton. Whoever is their manager they just have serious mentality issues in pushing on from decent positions so mirror us in last 20 years.

Take 4 points off them like we did last season and we'll have a decent chance although they'll probably win tonight with Arsenal having no strikers (we can finish above them aswell if we pull our fingers out).

Our problem remains we just collapse for whatever reason from Feb onwards. When was the last time we finished a season strongly in the top division when we were actually 5th or 6th? 2008?

Didn't happen in 1993, 1999, 2009, 10 or this season so it's been a major club issue for decades now so while clubs we're trying to finish above look pretty fresh in March onwards we usually look out on our feet.

Hopefully we'll get 2-3 in to really improve the first 11 this summer, no point just signing endless players who just make up the numbers on the bench as we already have that.

Dean also must learn how to rotate more in the first half of the season, leaving likes of Grealish or McGinn out of the odd game here and there or subbing them off after 70 minutes in games we're comfortably winning.

Target eventually has to be to peak from March onwards rather than December as happened this season.

2010/11 was a strong finish to the season. We went from struggling against relegation to an unlikely 9th finish, which a decade on remains our highest since and we still argue on here over whether it was a "fluke" or not!

[Risso]

I think the problem is we've got 1 exceptional player, 5 very good ones in the keeper/defence and Ollie, but everything else between the two isn't working, whether it's the central midfielders or the attacking support players. Nobody out of Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Traore, Nakamba, Trez, El Ghazi or Barkley has been remotely at the races for the weeks. Whether they're not good enough or just out of form we all have our individual opinions about I guess.

[SoccerHQ]

I actually think we can still finish above Everton. Whoever is their manager they just have serious mentality issues in pushing on from decent positions so mirror us in last 20 years.

Take 4 points off them like we did last season and we'll have a decent chance although they'll probably win tonight with Arsenal having no strikers (we can finish above them aswell if we pull our fingers out).

Our problem remains we just collapse for whatever reason from Feb onwards. When was the last time we finished a season strongly in the top division when we were actually 5th or 6th? 2008?

Didn't happen in 1993, 1999, 2009, 10 or this season so it's been a major club issue for decades now so while clubs we're trying to finish above look pretty fresh in March onwards we usually look out on our feet.

Hopefully we'll get 2-3 in to really improve the first 11 this summer, no point just signing endless players who just make up the numbers on the bench as we already have that.

Dean also must learn how to rotate more in the first half of the season, leaving likes of Grealish or McGinn out of the odd game here and there or subbing them off after 70 minutes in games we're comfortably winning.

Target eventually has to be to peak from March onwards rather than December as happened this season.

2010/11 was a strong finish to the season. We went from struggling against relegation to an unlikely 9th finish, which a decade on remains our highest since and we still argue on here over whether it was a "fluke" or not!

Nah I meant when we were firmly established in top half and then won 4 out of 5 or something in April/May. In 10/11 it was still actually possible we were going to get relegated with two games left then we randomly beat Arsenal and Liverpool, some other results went for us and we finished 9th.

We had that amazing run when Gregory just came in when we were just above the relegation zone and O'Leary did similar in his first season.

Just checked back and we actually won 4/5 in April 2010 when we finished 6th but we lost so much ground in the Feb and March of that season with average results.

Would be nice to just have a season where we keep pushing on and overachieve. Leicester weren't content with just finishing 6th in 15/16 and West Ham would've probably been happy with 8-9th two months ago but kept on winning and now have a great chance of top 4.

[john e]

Hopefully I'm wrong but my prediction is:

Jack won't play again this season
We'll get three more points. Once each from draws against WBA, Palace and one of the Everton games.

Even I think we are better than that even without Grealish

Who do you see us beating?

Well WBA and Palace for a start

[john e]

Yes well it was a pretty shocking run in the Championship. People say it will be fine with better players, but it wasn’t when we had better players than other teams in the Championship when Grealish was out. You can ignore that run in the Championship and stuff but just buying better players won’t solve Smiths tactical inflexibility and not knowing what to do if plan A isn’t working. We can’t keep having long spells like this when a player is missing. It’s not just 6 games. 15 in the Championship, more than 10 now etc

Grealish is our best player by a country mile.  Just like he'd be the best player in pretty much any other team in the world.  It's hardly surprising that we struggle when he's out.

Smith brought Barkley in to take some of the pressure off Jack but it's turned out he's crap!  Until we get better players we're always going to struggle without one of the best players in the world.

We’ve spent two hundred and fucking fifty million pounds on players
And we are still totally reliant on the player that’s been with us since the age of six

That’s not right
That cannot be right it’s not credible it’s pathetic
You can excuse it all Want but surely when you look at it you have to admit that is a sorry state of affairs

The slight issue I have with this is the bold bit, when termed that way, sounds a lot worse than "still totally reliant on one of the best players in Europe". We have lots of, in my opinion, top half/mid table players but right now there's only 3-4 top 4 standard players (Grealish, Konsa, Martinez and maybe Watkins) so losing the one of them that is our main creator has a massive impact.

True, i agree
That’s the problem the finger points at Smith again
As our team should be better than a relegation Threatened side even when we lose the best player

People can’t have it both ways either the players aren’t good enough or the manager isn’t when we play without Grealish

[Chris Smith]

We’ve improved each season under Smith. How many times have we been able to say that in recent years? If he keeps that up then he’ll deservedly keep his job.

[paul_e]

I think the problem is we've got 1 exceptional player, 5 very good ones in the keeper/defence and Ollie, but everything else between the two isn't working, whether it's the central midfielders or the attacking support players. Nobody out of Luiz, McGinn, Ramsey, Traore, Nakamba, Trez, El Ghazi or Barkley has been remotely at the races for the weeks. Whether they're not good enough or just out of form we all have our individual opinions about I guess.

Luiz - short of form
McGinn - short of form
Ramsey - talented prospect but still very raw
Traore - talented but inconsistent, short of form
Nakamba - not good enough
Trez - we'll see after the injury
AEG - not mentally strong enough
Barkley - not motivated or fit

First 4 all have a place with us for the next few years, last 4 could all go for me (but I'd worry we might be making a mistake with Trez).

Add Sanson, Grealish and 2-3 well chosen new signings (DM, winger/striker and maybe an AM) and I think that's a pretty strong midfield and attack if we can get them playing to their ability.

[ChicagoLion]

Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

[paul_e]

Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

Interchange form with confidence and it's pretty obvious, results have dropped and seen us fall away from a potential challenge for the top 4/6 and as a result the confidence and form has dipped across the squad. I just think we need to find a bit of confidence going forward (and I think in reflection McGinns goal might help with that).

From his press conference today Smith was asked about the impact of the covid break and potential long-covid and his reply was that there's no evidence of fitness troubles from it but the forced break did hurt our momentum. He also said that the form of players like Bert, AEG and Ross all dropping off at the same time that Jack got injured is why we're struggling going forward. He did say though that almost any team would obviously miss a player of the level Jack is.

What was also interesting is that the journalists that mentioned Man City seemed to be talking about a good performance but a poor result and Smith mentioned that other than the 2 avoidable goals Martinez didn't have much to do and they didn't create many shots but that we need to be more competitive in attack.

I can't disagree with any of that, when I was talking about the covid break a few days ago I never once said it was a fitness thing or used the virus as an excuse i was just pointing out that something in the team changed during that break and we've not been able to turn it around.

[brontebilly]

I don't get some of the anger to be honest. Disappointment, yes because it could have gone better but I think overall this season has been a positive one.

It's the way it's petering out is the problem. We were all quite optimistic earlier in the season (results and performances were very good) and I'm sure prospective transfer targets were too. Maybe it helped convince the likes of Sanson in Jan.

But it's crashed very badly since and the style of football is rancid. Yes Grealish's injury is a big problem and there may be other mitigating circumstances (Barkley turning out to be worse than useless, Sanson not settling yet etc) but Smith should be finding some kind of way without Jack. We give the impression we aren't able to put four passes together without Grealish on the pitch.

[caster troy]

It probably doesn't help that it wasn't clear initially Grealish would be out this long. If we'd know it was long term maybe everyone would have pulled together and found a new system, raised their game etc but instead it's been a weak mentality of 'it's ok Jack will be back next week' which has then dragged on for months.

[Ad@m]

Why do we have so many players short of form?
Who is responsible for getting the most out of the squad?

Or are we saying that without Grealish we have a relegation level team and none of this is the fault of the manager?

I don't think we do have a relegation level team without Jack.  We're all bemoaning the results since he's been out, but despite this, and the fact the rest of the midfield has gone off the boil, we'd be 16th.  So flirting with relegation, but better than 4 other teams.

If you then look at it over a season, when you'd expect some of those players to pick up a bit on form we've probably got a lower mid-table side without Jack.  Which makes total sense to me given last year we had an almost-relegated side with Jack.

We're progressing year on year.  But in a world where the top 4-6 have probably spent a billion pounds each over the last decade getting to where they are, we weren't going to turn a team that got promoted through the playoffs in to one which gets in to Europe by spending just over £100m.