Dean Smith - Confirmed

[Des Little]

The thought of this clueless mob getting into the play offs is as scary as it is unbelievable.  Part of me doesn't want it to happen.

[john e]

I just hope the ' the Brentford team that played us off the park last night is Smiths team and is what we will play like next season'

is not the new 'Bruce has got 4 promotions and will deliver given time'

I'm still believing but fuck me it's hard work

[tomd2103]

Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Agree with that TV.  Monk looked to implement a passing philosophy at his previous clubs, but probably realised he couldn't do that at Blues.  He's therefore gone for a more direct style and it seems to be getting the best out of the players he has at his disposal. 

My one real criticism Dean Smith is that he hasn't looked to change formation over the past few weeks, even though it has been pretty clear things aren't working. 

[footyskillz]

This is exactly what I mean from reading post above the ambition is being lost with supporters.

People giving up on play off and promotion hopes should be criticized as much as the players !

Imagine if the villa squad  (and can argue some have, though that's unprofessional) gave up on play offs right now ?!
Madness!!

So what is clearly happening is there a shift of people here who have lost hope on the here and now.
They are settling .
Winners don't just settle.
And sorry to those who do.

Be careful what you wish for because the villa fans will make the club small time if we don't keep optimistic and argue that we need to be up there sooner than later.

I made my point
For those who have decency to read it.

I  have realized that really too many people here are going to be happy we are not getting promoted.

I don't want to be around such negative vibes

[Ian.]

There's no guarantee that Smith is the answer. I think I've seen enough to make me hope and believe things can improve.

But, and the poster who wants him sacked now wanted him sacked a month or two back, would have seen Farke sacked long ago. Wilder sacked last season for their run of form. Johnson sacked numerous times over at Bristol. Wagnar sacked at Huddersfield for not improving them in year 1. Monk sacked at the Blues for their awful start.

At some point we've got to back a plan. It doesn't mean you accept the form or performances now, but you understand the context.

Cultural changes take time. China have been engaged in a cultural revolution since the 70s, building high rises to draw peasents out of the countryside, to live in cities and place a demand for an increase to the service economy for the new urban workers. Britain took 100 years in the 19th century to do the same. The leap from Bruce to modernity is on a similar scale.

A pre-season helps, but the more you look around this league the overwhelming difference is legs, running, ticker, whatever you want to call it. We're relying on full backs, central midfielders and wide men who have none.

The player threads are full of it and rightly so. We have the right idea, whether we have the right man time will tell.

I think it's foolish to accept the run, but doubly so to not afford this manager the opportunity of his peers. I think it will work out.

Excellent post Ads.

Yep, spot on Ads. Great post.

[Risso]

I going off site for time as have realized that really too many people here are going to be happy we are not getting promoted.

I don't want to be around such negative vibes.

Ta ra a bit then.  Don't let the door hit you on the arse mid flounce.

[paul_e]

Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Monk does not need to worry about building for the future because the club are prevented from doing so. Smith has joined at a time when new owners are looking at the bigger picture and creating something sustainable with an eye on bigger things. This will shape how they operate in the short term.

Sustainable yes but bigger things ?; Are we sure? For me that remains to be seen
Some of that talk is marketing and business .
It sounds good but let's judge them in a few years on their actions.

Business wise they want to be efficient and effective.

We already had Smith talk of market value of andre green potential.

It's not particularly ambitious from owners and CEO
And why would it be ?

Xia had dreams and ambitions and now the club is going in different directions .
Admittedly it's for reasons to adminstrative and be stable but can already see it's going to be down a route of a smaller scale club where loans and developing youth will be main areas along with bargain buys.

I unfortunately am very sceptical of the villa owners and CEO actual ambition. They who see villa as somewhere to make money on players and look at the business side of things primarily.
The football side has been put in hands of one of own and JT for appeasement.

Any other coach (or any ones without any villa connection) would be criticized by a lot more after the recent run


These owners aren't stupid .
They picked villa when they were vulnerable.
I think the phrase is over a barrell

It's been billed as some sort of development plan .
That's just a spin.

All clubs have development.
Villa have been choosing not to do that because players weren't up to grade.

Now seemingly come season end won't have a choice.

Likes of Tammy Abraham , JT , Snodgrass won't be coming to villa if we carry on like this.
There is a danger it's not just this season we fall by the way side.

You post some nonsense at times but this is right up there with the biggest pile of fantasy I've ever seen.

The new owners have done nothing to suggest they here solely to make money, signing a £7m goalkeeper and £5m right back during the Janaury window does not scream 'bargain buys' in this division.

The idea that they picked JT and Smith to appease the fans whilst they use us as a money making tool is frighteningly naive.

Deciding that their talk of a plan for future is just spin is ridiculous and based on almost nothing beyond the fact that we aren't in the promotion places.

We've had years of managing the club week to week with little forward planning and it's opinions like this which encourage that, the club has been in a tailspin for years and has never really 'got' modern football, the board and the manager can't build that structure and expect results in 6 months. If they felt Smith was the right choice for this step in rebuilding the club then I can understand why and I'm happy to see him get a chance to do so unless we're still looking like this come the end of the season.

[Ian.]

Where Monk is doing a good job is that he is making good use of what he has and has found a style to suit the players at his disposal. Smith is trying to get the players to play how he wants and it is getting worse because the players can't do it.

Monk does not need to worry about building for the future because the club are prevented from doing so. Smith has joined at a time when new owners are looking at the bigger picture and creating something sustainable with an eye on bigger things. This will shape how they operate in the short term.

I agree. We have all said we should not keep switching systems and philosophies etc. I imagine that throughout the club he is trying in establish a way of playing, a culture, certain principles that are consistent across all of the age groups. It's not going to happen quickly and the in between stage, as this is, looks ugly.

If we wanted the best out of this squad maybe Smith was not the best appointment and we should appointed Pullis, Fat Sam or the like. I'm sure they would get a tune from these halfwits. However that's not what Smith has been appointed for but actually appointed for us to sustain a style and system for years to come.

[DB]

From the post-match thread.

The team assembled by Dean Smith played the one he now manages off the park. It’s hardly stretching credulity to expect that when he has had time to implement his plans at Villa we will see similar performances.

Precisely.

He did almost say as much in the post-match interview but there's not much he can say to appease the fans is there?

I'm not sure why he should change the system to suit the players.

We HAVE to remember that we need to build for the future, not the present. He needs time to embed this system that he wants to play and whilst we have players who can't or won't, it's going to be ugly.

The players need practise to get better, and lets' face it for many of them it's yet another new style after their former clubs and/or our former managers. It takes time. I think the sooner we accept that this season is not one for achieving promotion the better, though I'm pissed off with that and am struggling to accept it.

Our owners and CEO have said promotion this season isn't essential, and I think that's because they understand it takes time. I hope they hold their nerve.

With peopel questioning Smith's ability and approach so soon into his tenure it seems that fans will start getting on his back soon and if that happens you can start preparing for Allardyce or similar and you can think about us getting new owners too.

We have to accept that our club has been rotten for years, trying to act all billy big bollocks buying all the talent and payign over the odds for it rather than developing a system, style and sustainable model. For examples of club's doing it see Brighton, Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Leicester, Wolves, Norwich, Watford and Burnley.

The advantage we have is that when we do it, and start improving, we have the advantage of our heritage, tradition and size to attract a better calibre of player to suit our system. See Man City for an example of buying the best to suit their system.

I dont' want Smith to abandon his principles and approach just because it's not working in the here and now. He's done it before, see Brentford as the key example. Players developed in a system, players brought in to replace them. When we lose Grealish, under a system we'd be able to replace him without huge disruption. Right now, because we're a shambles losing him will be dreadful (has been due to injury).

This is absolutely 100% spot on. This and the post match thread leave me in tears sometimes. In one sentence people are (rightly) scathing of the majority of the squad and the next appearing to blame Smith for the squad being rubbish. This is a bang average squad at the very best with the exception of Grealish McGinn Abraham Tuanzebe and now Mings. The rest will never in a million years be coached to play the way Smith is demanding because they can’t  its that simple. And yes, Smith does get a free pass from me this season because he needs time to bring his own players in and bed in his footballing philosophy to a club that hasn’t had such a thing for years. I’ve always estimated 3 windows at least. And if proof is required just look at last night. A Smith built and coached team played us off the park. I believe given the time he’ll do that here

Good posts those

[mr underhill]

Dean won't get years to implement any style or discernible pattern of play. In fact, if he carries on like this, he's got until early May.

[Ian.]

Very well said Chris and Drummond.

[Allan C]

This is a bang average squad at the very best with the exception of Grealish McGinn Abraham Tuanzebe and now Mings. The rest will never in a million years be coached to play the way Smith is demanding because they can’t  its that simple.

The problem with this is that yes we have a bang average players - and he is getting them playing below average. We see other average squads getting better results week after week. An we have a few players that lift us above average in any event.

For all its deficiencies, we have a better set of players than many teams that are doing better than us. Smith needs to set us up to get results with what we have. That is his job. He can move to a system that works with different players when he has them.

Sorry but I disagree with that. This squad minus Grealish and Tuanzebe are at the limit they should be, mid table. With those two we should be a little higher. The squads above us are at the very least equal when we have G&T and some are better. Which of our squad (minus G&T) would fit in at say Leeds??

[mr underhill]

that's the Leeds squad broadly similar to last season's that finished in mid table obscurity?

[Brassneck]

Dean won't get years to implement any style or discernible pattern of play. In fact, if he carries on like this, he's got until early May.

Nobody expects him to have years.

Realistically, we need to see an improvement by this time next year.  We need to see a direction and a purpose.  We did not see that with our previous manager and that is why he is our previous manager.  If Smith delivers the same, he can expect the same fate.

We have stagnated as a mid to upper Championship side.  Our players are all Championship players with the exception of a very select few.  People need to stop thinking that we have a divine right to promotion just because we are Aston Villa.  We spent the most ever in Championship history 2 years ago because we are Aston Villa and we failed miserably.  We attracted the best loan signings last season because we are Aston Villa and again failed miserably.  We tried the "promotion expert" and failed miserably.

There is no magic recipe and no master tactician waiting out there who is going to come in and blow the league apart.

The owners themselves have stated that there is not going to be a quick fix here.  We are in a mess still, lumbered with over paid, under achieving players, many of whom are on one final bumper contract.

Smith will be here next August, regardless of what happens between now and early May.  Get used to the idea and accept it.  He may not be pulling up trees presently but he will have his chance next season and rightly so.

[villa `cross the mersey]

I going off site for time as have realized that really too many people here are going to be happy we are not getting promoted.

I don't want to be around such negative vibes.

Ta ra a bit then.  Don't let the door hit you on the arse mid flounce.

Thats the first thing to make me smile today !!!
Footyskillz - I admire your optimism but there is a fair bit of egg on people's faces right now - the playoffs are just a wild dream - I think the pragmatists have called it right - ie give Smith time
I think some people got a bit carried away initially when
Smith was first appointed - ie the Villa connection and some early improved performances which were misleading
Major surgery required in the summer - then give him two straight seasons - if he ain't cutting the mustard start all over again