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Author Topic: Dean Smith - Confirmed  (Read 1102337 times)

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5340 on: December 15, 2019, 10:15:06 AM »
I normally get frustrated with managers who don't display a sense of having an overarching plan and philosophy that includes trying to play good, attacking football and bringing through or bringing in talented young players who can apply the philosophy.  You can see that Smith is trying to do something like that and it's a refreshing change from the dinosaurs like Bruce, Mcleish and O'Neill and incompetent fuckwits like Lambert and Sherwood. That's why I'm way more patient with him, not because he's "one of us".

But -  tactical nous and flexibility is a big part of succeeding with such a philosophy and Smith looks alarmingly wanting in that department so far.  You often see other managers making small tactical or personnel changes at half time (e.g. Rogers) that swing things their way, because they have spotted how to nullify danger areas or exploit weaknesses.  Smith doesn't seem to have that ability.   Unless he develops it very soon he'll be in big trouble and so will we.         

Offline lukey27

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5341 on: December 15, 2019, 10:17:32 AM »
Smith isn't going to change tact or suddenly play three at the back. He's going to stick to 4-3-3 and trust the players to be better.

With the formation we play, the fullbacks are absolutely vital and in the last 3-4 games they've been very poor. Positionally, drifting inside, losing runners, giving the ball away. It's a long list.

Ahead of that, the midfield has lacked energy and we haven't moved the ball quick enough. The ball has bounced off Wesley, and he is coming far too deep.

These individual performances need to massively improve and that is Smith's challenge.

Fans inevitably throw out "no plan B" "poor subsitutions" because its easy. I think every football manager is thrown this when they are not winning games. Consistency of selection and formation are praised when you win games, and flipped when you're losing. That's the nature of the game.

The next 4 games will be vital to our season and Smiths long term prospects as our boss. I back him to do it.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5342 on: December 15, 2019, 10:28:52 AM »
Of course you will be praised when winning games, because that means what you are doing is working.  It's when it's no longer working that good managers show their mettle, by having the ability to tweak things or get more out of their players.  It doesn't have to be a drastic change of formation or personnel, it's often small things that show the manager is on the ball and can see what's unfolding before him and has some ideas of how to combat it.  Loads of people on here pointing out how easy it was for Sheffield to play those long crossfield balls to their wide players.  It's a tactic frequently employed by them.  If the fans knew in advance about this tactic, and could see it working during the game, why couldn't Smith and his team, and why didn't they do something to address it?

We also look tired and unfit.  There's no excuse for that.

Offline geolex

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5343 on: December 15, 2019, 10:33:01 AM »
it is ridiculous to even talk of replacing Dean Smith at all. There is no better manager for Villa than Dean Smith regardless of current results. Rome wasn't built in a day and Manure were shit for a long time whilst Fergusson built his squad, Chelsea Mancity and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' have all taken time to build their squads as did Wenger at Arsenal. Get some patience or continue to see a revolving managers door. If Smith goes Grealish will be out in no time too. We knew this season would be tough but at least it is entertaining along the way.....or would you prefer bruceball back again ?
[

true but none  of those teams were i danger of being relegated

Offline PeterWithe

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5344 on: December 15, 2019, 10:38:29 AM »
Not a big fan of playing 3 centre halfís (sp?) unless they are very good on the ball and tactically capable of moving into midfield in possession. Otherwise they are often marking one forward giving the opposition superior numbers elsewhere.

Offline supertom

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5345 on: December 15, 2019, 10:43:06 AM »
Smith can't organise a defence. You can get away with that in the championship but not here. This is where I'd have thought Terry would earn his crust but he's new to coaching and maybe he's there for 'personality.' Fulham found out the hard way you need a plan B, particularly when you're bedding in a whole new side. One thing that Sheffield Utd are for example, is incredibly well drilled. They do play their way, and it's also been said Wilder will rarely budge from it but I think he's more tactically minded, and because they kept consistency from their last few years, everyone knows each other and knows what they're doing.

If we can't defend because we play 2 CH's (none of whom are experienced in the Prem) and our defensive midfielders are new to this level too, and our fullbacks can attack but can't defend, then we're seeing the results of this. As they season has gone on and we're getting wearier, we're falling apart more and getting resoundly beaten. Early season, some of those results we could put down to bad luck perhaps, a bit of naivety, but we were lucky the last 3 games to keep the scores as they were.

Retrospect is wonderful but if I could go back I'd have given Whelan a years deal and had him play in certain games or come out to see out games. Hell, I'd have 'Bruced' a few games this year. Newcastle aren't teeming with quality, but they're way ahead. They might hate his brand but that's what comes with a bit of experience at the top. I'd have also considered Hutton on a deal, because who are the big characters in our team? Grealish is skipper, he's been good, but he's not the 'big' character type who'll throw around some bollockings. Next in line is probably Mings. He's a positive influence, a strong character but he's young and whilst he's 26, he's lost 2-3 years of development. He's the same as the 22-23 year olds still learning, making errors. He needs a Whelan type, been around the block more than a few times, to just keep on at him. 'Sharpen the fuck up lad.' There's been games where we've looked leaderless on the pitch, because no one knows what they're doing at this level when you're against the wall. You could look a fancy dan in the ring pinging jabs, maybe grabbing a few knock outs, but maybe you get the bouts where you don't know how to deal with the grabbers or get out of a corner, or how to play after round 6 because you've got no legs.

I'd have taken a punt on Sturridge as an alternative to Wesley.

As things stand, I'd be considering a back 3. If our wingers don't defend and our fullbacks leave acres, when our center halves get drawn across we'd benefit from the extra man, and those fullbacks would be able to express themselves a bit more. It also allows for more fluid style of play too, which is why it's becoming more in vogue again. The best exponents of the back 3 always have that quarterback, like Cody at Wolves who's good on the ball. Mings could be that. He's got the ability.

Above all, Deano, needs to learn quickly that you can't bullheadedly play how you aspire to against anyone. When it's not working, players don't know what to do, the confidence goes. Wesley is non-existent as a focal point so we don't keep the ball up top either. We paid no respect to Sheffield Utd because we should have had a far more disciplined game plan and played deeper. They duly, because they know what they're doing, battered us.

We may aspire to play football but you can't account for how a team presses, or lines up, or pushes you back (okay you can, if you've got more nous). I never see us play a particular way against certain sides, short of having Marvellous and Luiz against 'the big' sides (and maybe being a little deeper) .It's too fucking basic. Who's analysing every opponent? Who's looking at how to nulify a Wolves, or Sheff Utd? This to me, is not much different to Tim Sherwood. When it worked, we looked quite good, but when it didn't, because he approached games without any game plan beyond being expressive, we were wrecked. Games go by like that Southampton hammering which was basically the first coffin nail. Or the Cup Final. Problems are there from minute one and until the 90th, nothing is done to address it. Smith is basically doing the same. Yes at least his original game plan is more considered and his grasp of the game, but that lack of ability to turn things around is causing problems.

 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 10:47:28 AM by supertom »

Offline TonyD

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5346 on: December 15, 2019, 10:44:08 AM »
I normally get frustrated with managers who don't display a sense of having an overarching plan and philosophy that includes trying to play good, attacking football and bringing through or bringing in talented young players who can apply the philosophy.  You can see that Smith is trying to do something like that and it's a refreshing change from the dinosaurs like Bruce, Mcleish and O'Neill and incompetent fuckwits like Lambert and Sherwood. That's why I'm way more patient with him, not because he's "one of us".

But -  tactical nous and flexibility is a big part of succeeding with such a philosophy and Smith looks alarmingly wanting in that department so far.  You often see other managers making small tactical or personnel changes at half time (e.g. Rogers) that swing things their way, because they have spotted how to nullify danger areas or exploit weaknesses.  Smith doesn't seem to have that ability.   Unless he develops it very soon he'll be in big trouble and so will we.         
Very well put.   I suppose he has a few games to suddenly develop tactical awareness.  But Iím not holding my breath.  Some of his shortcomings are such basic common sense stuff that most of us can see them easily.  Itís a real worry. 

Online kippaxvilla2

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5347 on: December 15, 2019, 11:12:15 AM »
You took off Wesley when it was 1-0, what was the thinking?

"I thought he was a lot better today. John Egan and Jack O'Connell, Basham who I know, I thought we got the ball into him and he made it stick. We won second balls off him and he had a couple of chances. There was one at the start of the second half where I thought he was going to lob the goalkeeper with his left foot, he decided to bring it down instead. He had a chance where he's turned and hit it into the side netting. He just got a whack into his lower back just before that and I thought it was the right time to give Jonathan Kodjia an opportunity.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5348 on: December 15, 2019, 11:31:25 AM »
Very good posts Supertom and KT.

Online Mister E

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5349 on: December 15, 2019, 11:32:19 AM »
Smith can't organise a defence. You can get away with that in the championship but not here. This is where I'd have thought Terry would earn his crust  ...  at least his original game plan is more considered and his grasp of the game, but that lack of ability to turn things around is causing problems.

Tom, that is a super post, and it captures alot of what's been going on.
Question: why can the club not see that trying the same old approach and expecting a different outcome is foolish?

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5350 on: December 15, 2019, 11:35:16 AM »
Smith can't organise a defence. You can get away with that in the championship but not here. This is where I'd have thought Terry would earn his crust  ...  at least his original game plan is more considered and his grasp of the game, but that lack of ability to turn things around is causing problems.

Tom, that is a super post, and it captures alot of what's been going on.
Question: why can the club not see that trying the same old approach and expecting a different outcome is foolish?
We are back to that definition of insanity, doing the same thing but expecting different results.

Offline Risso

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5351 on: December 15, 2019, 11:57:51 AM »
On the defence point, I think ĺ of it is OK, ie the central pairing and Guilbert, and Heaton is fine.  But the midfield in front of it is the problem.  There's no settled three, and they provide no protection at all.  The make up of it changes every week, as Smith lurches between a combination of Nakamba, Luiz, McGinn and Hourihane.  McGinn has probably been the worst of the lot in recent games, but is the only guaranteed starter.  In addition, neither El Ghazi or Trezeguet provide any protection down the right.  In short I just don't think the formation is working, but Smith is welded to it like a limpet to a rock.

Offline ktvillan

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5352 on: December 15, 2019, 01:23:11 PM »
Some good points supertom - Smith says he always goes out to win a game but I'd agree sometimes, with a new squad in the PL and struggling, you might need to try and grind out the odd result like Bruce did with Toon at Spurs.  I hate that kind of football but maybe occasionally it's necessary to reconsolidate and get a few unexpected points.  We're not very good at that though.  The Whelan comment has merit too.

Offline not3bad

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5353 on: December 15, 2019, 01:31:03 PM »
I normally get frustrated with managers who don't display a sense of having an overarching plan and philosophy that includes trying to play good, attacking football and bringing through or bringing in talented young players who can apply the philosophy.  You can see that Smith is trying to do something like that and it's a refreshing change from the dinosaurs like Bruce, Mcleish and O'Neill and incompetent fuckwits like Lambert and Sherwood. That's why I'm way more patient with him, not because he's "one of us".

But -  tactical nous and flexibility is a big part of succeeding with such a philosophy and Smith looks alarmingly wanting in that department so far.  You often see other managers making small tactical or personnel changes at half time (e.g. Rogers) that swing things their way, because they have spotted how to nullify danger areas or exploit weaknesses.  Smith doesn't seem to have that ability.   Unless he develops it very soon he'll be in big trouble and so will we.         
Very well put.   I suppose he has a few games to suddenly develop tactical awareness.  But Iím not holding my breath.  Some of his shortcomings are such basic common sense stuff that most of us can see them easily.  Itís a real worry. 

That sounds a bit harsh and does not take into account the fact that Smith is less than halfway into his first premier league season.

Offline brontebilly

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Re: Dean Smith - Confirmed
« Reply #5354 on: December 15, 2019, 01:48:05 PM »
On the defence point, I think ĺ of it is OK, ie the central pairing and Guilbert, and Heaton is fine.  But the midfield in front of it is the problem.  There's no settled three, and they provide no protection at all.  The make up of it changes every week, as Smith lurches between a combination of Nakamba, Luiz, McGinn and Hourihane.  McGinn has probably been the worst of the lot in recent games, but is the only guaranteed starter.  In addition, neither El Ghazi or Trezeguet provide any protection down the right.  In short I just don't think the formation is working, but Smith is welded to it like a limpet to a rock.

Midfield is a mess and has been all season. Early on there was the two number eights as Smith put it, with Grealish central and ineffective. The switch up v Brighton certainly improved matters but only for a while. In the last three games the space behind Grealish has been relentlessly targeted successfully. Targett is frankly a hopeless defender at this level but he gets little or no support from the midfielder on that side, Hourihane, Luiz, Lansbury in the last three games. It baffles me why Smith at a minimum is not switching Nakamba over there.

On Smith generally, he is really struggling now. It beggars belief that the first sub yesterday was from Wilder given how poor we were. None of Smith's subs effected a tactical change which again was baffling.

We need to cobble together some kind of formation that makes us harder to play against. Maybe three at the back would help but it means our centre backs being very positive on the ball.


 


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