Dean Smith - Confirmed

[Pat Mustard]

So you think that we can just do a Leicester? How long do you suggest we wait to have create a Team based on the Leicester model?
We have a chance next season to push for Top 6  if we do enough to convince Jack that we have ambitions now based on the strength we have, because if we can convince Jack then retaining and acquiring the players we need is going to be an awful lot easier.

How long did it take Leicester do 'a Leicester'?  I seem to recall they got promoted, almost went down, next season won the League against any reasonable expectation, and since then have maintained a pretty balanced approach to building a squad and a club despite losing world-class players in the likes of Kante and Mahrez.  Whilst we might not be winning the league in the next few years, we aren't that far behind them now and have plenty of advantages over them in the longer-term.  I'd rather build something sustainable than go shit or bust like we have in the past and end up in the same place we spent most of the 2010's.

So we do a Leicester or Shit or Bust?
Genius

Come on then Einstein, what's the answer?

[CT Villan]

We are the epitome of inconsistency.

When we over-achieve we get elated and move our expectations higher, which ultimately bites us hard when we under-achieve and Smith bears the brunt of the complaints.

On average, we are exactly where we hoped to be this season and as such Smith has earned the right to try and push the ceiling higher next season.

[aj2k77]

I didn't think we'd be 9th this season, I was expecting more of a season like Wolves have had. Never in danger of going down but never in danger of pushing the top 6.

[West Derby Villan]

We are the epitome of inconsistency.

When we over-achieve we get elated and move our expectations higher, which ultimately bites us hard when we under-achieve and Smith bears the brunt of the complaints.

On average, we are exactly where we hoped to be this season and as such Smith has earned the right to try and push the ceiling higher next season.

Agree CT, we are the youngest team in the division and we have progressed enormously this season due to very good summer signings and players, bought the season before, becoming more experienced at this level. If we can continue with some similarly good signings in the summer the progression can be sustained and a top six place a reality

[eamonn]

Well if we're not careful Wulfs will finish ahead of us.

[ChicagoLion]

So you think that we can just do a Leicester? How long do you suggest we wait to have create a Team based on the Leicester model?
We have a chance next season to push for Top 6  if we do enough to convince Jack that we have ambitions now based on the strength we have, because if we can convince Jack then retaining and acquiring the players we need is going to be an awful lot easier.

How long did it take Leicester do 'a Leicester'?  I seem to recall they got promoted, almost went down, next season won the League against any reasonable expectation, and since then have maintained a pretty balanced approach to building a squad and a club despite losing world-class players in the likes of Kante and Mahrez.  Whilst we might not be winning the league in the next few years, we aren't that far behind them now and have plenty of advantages over them in the longer-term.  I'd rather build something sustainable than go shit or bust like we have in the past and end up in the same place we spent most of the 2010's.

So we do a Leicester or Shit or Bust?
Genius

Come on then Einstein, what's the answer?

E=mc2

[Ads]

Different forms of the same thing?

Thought you were coming up with a third way?

[olaftab]

Well if we're not careful Wulfs will finish ahead of us.

Table will stay more or less as it is now.

[Ads]

I'd probably settle for finishing one place higher and similarly above the team directly above us at the moment.

[Mister E]

Building a team around some of the current stars has to be the only way - the likes of JG, Konsa, Cash, Watkins and Martinez together is an opportunity that doesn't come around very often. More importantly, I'm sure the club recognise that and will invest accordingly.

I'm not saying that we want to sell our best players, and that we shouldn't build on what we have.  What I am saying, though, is that we can't keep looking at what we have now and think this is our only chance to move forward as this is is precisely the kind of approach that has got us into trouble in the past. 
Over the last 30 years we have focussed so much on the here and now that when it hasn't happened immediately we have had to start again from scratch.  We have had top class players in our team on lots of occasions (going back to Dwight Yorke, Mark Bosnich, Ugo and Southgate, Ashley Young, James Milner, Benteke, Delph etc.), but have then spent over the odds on surrounding them with decent, but not great, players with little to no resale value.  We then end up losing the good players anyway, and are left with the rest.
What Leicester have done is the perfect example of how you can lose good players but keep moving forward.  In an ideal world I am positive that they would have preferred to keep Mahrez, Kante, Chilwell etc, but they have planned for the loss of these players should they happen and still improved as a club.  With the owners, management and structure we now have in place why shouldn't we be able to do the same?

I don't think we're saying anything different, but bear in mind Leicester 'did a Leicester' with some of those players who were then sold on - Mahrez, Kante. The point is that they assembled a team that slowly emerged into the title-winning side, seemingly over the course of a season; but the acquisition and development work obviously took place before that.
Chilwell and Maguire - whom they sold later - had come in / been developed as part of the 'post-Leicester' success.

We have the core of a team that could 'do a Leicester: we just need to carefully add the missing pieces.

[RamboandBruno]

For those calling for his head

Pssst. Nobody is.

There are a number who seem to be questioning whether Smith is the right man for the job though. And others suggesting he's inept and out of his depth.

We're 9th. Ahead of Arsenal, 2 points and a game on hand behind last season's runaway champions and 4 points and a game in hand behind Spuds.

It's massive progress in such a short space of time. Smith is the best opportunity and breath of fresh air this club has had in decades. He'll get things wrong, and the players will too, they know when it's not good enough and are honest about it. They learn too.

Every big name manager started somewhere. Why not grow our own?

i think that's a good point and and i think your sort of both right
no one has called for his head but people have questioned his ability to take us higher
when i say people i really mean me and one or two others

as Chicago says i'm probably the closest so far to that heresy

every post i make re Villa or Smith is with the view that with the new owners and renewed ambition we need to be looking at being a top 6/4 side on a regular basis
yes i know where we were two years ago but i never accepted that was where we should have been and through inept ownership and managers we fell to a position that was totally avoidable

do i think Smith should go
No of course not, you cant sack a manager that's done what he's done in the last couple of seasons that would be ridiculous

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6 side even a top 4 side
Yes but only if we keep Grealish
and that's the key as iv'e always said, we must keep him and the best way of doing that is European football because it would be a tragedy if Grealish did not perform at the highest level of Domestic and European football

do i think Smith can deliver a top 6/4 side without Grealish
this is where it gets to that heresy thing, because if i'm honest i don't think he can
so there i've said it, that's doesn't mean i want him gone but it does mean i probably think he's less capable than many of you others on here

Grealish is the key as iv'e said many times, he's the reason we are where we are, he makes everyone look better than what they really are both players and managment

i might be wrong we might lose Grealish and with the money Smith puts together a top team and goes on to challenge
personally i think if we lose Grealish at the end of the season (not saying we will) Smith will be gone by the end of next year
but that's just pure conjecture

in another scenario we keep Grealish and bring in 2/3 top players to support him and bang we are challenging ( this is obviously the one i want to happen)

i didn't think Konsa was good enough at the start of this season so i got that one wrong
its a football forum we say are piece and sometimes we get it right and sometimes wrong
end of the day we have to be honest and say what we think, and time will be the judge

but remember i spent two years arguing on here with Drum, Clampy, Adds and many others about Bruce
i said he was no where good enough for us and taking us nowhere
you all argued that he was the man and we should be sticking with him
so forgive me if i think your judgement of managers is fatally flawed , but i do

so it all boils down to Grealish for me not Smith
certainly at this moment in our development

i'm still very hopeful that with a returning Grealish we can still make it into the Europa spots
i'm not looking down i'm still looking up and staying positive

I think John you speak really well and I do honestly get what your saying with this.
I realise that I sometimes come across as Smith fandom, I think this is partly down to the fact that when we appointed him it felt the most or in fact possibly only sensible managerial appointment we’d made since O’Neil back in 2006. Not because he had any profile particularly, just because he was young in managerial terms, played good football at that level, had earned his stripes and had the club at heart. It could of been Thierry Henry, which would of been more exciting on paper and a complete car crash in the championship.

However, I’m under no illusions that unless we’re on the cusp of something really special, then Smith won’t be here in 10 or 15 years and even if successful will probably be sacked or leave in 4 or 5 years at best, or in a year if we don’t do so well, that’s the name of the game.

Obviously Grealish is vitally important to all of this, mainly because of his ability but also what he symbolises, he is literally a hero to the younger generation of villa fans and probably us older heads as well. But I make the point again, we are not unique in this heavy reliance on one player to take us from average to very good. Leicester have been talked about in this thread, but for all their building and replacement of players that have left, where would they of been over the last 4 or 5 years without Vardy. The same with Spurs and Kane, no matter how good others like Son are. There is only Man City really and Liverpool last year that have a number of players of equal importance in an attacking sense.

Where I do think Smith deserves huge praise is the defence. Grealish played out of his skin last year and yet we still just about stayed up. This year Smith and his coaching team have changed that defence to something extraordinary. You take Grealish out of that team now without replacing him (which isn’t going to happen-the not replacing him if he ever goes), we lose that something special that has us as genuine challengers at the top end of the table, but there is no way we are relegation fodder with a defence like that. For me Jack probably isn’t in the top two players of the season and is behind Martinez and Konsa.

Finally, One thing always missing from these discussions as well, I never saw Grealish play as well for Bruce, so maybe our progress has of course loads to do with Grealish, but maybe the progress of Grealish has loads to do with Smith.

[ChicagoLion]

Different forms of the same thing?

Thought you were coming up with a third way?

it was in response to the Einstein quip,
But if we are looking for an alternative to trying to emulate Leicester or shit or bust then building on what we have means
1 retaining Grealish
2 securing Konsa Martinez Mings Watkins Cash Target
3 A couple of Young Milner quality recruitments
The rest is about solving our midfield structure, improving the players that are here and improving squad depth.
Nothing revolutionary but without solving 1 then everything else becomes more difficult.
The alternative being suggested is that we end up with no Jack and as soon as that happens the ambitious players will be vulnerable. Before you know it we are into a rebuilding job similar to what happened in our promotion season but without the core but lots of cash.
The question is from that situation how long it would take us to establish a potential Top 6 team or would that be even possible?

We have a serious opportunity to really push on because we have a once in a generation player, I just hope that the Club does everything to make it happen.

[Ads]

I know, I continued it is all with what the equation alludes to.

[Ian.]

Another game tonight where both teams look out of ideas on the final third. Also stray passing and the tempo slowing near goal. We’re not alone at the moment.

Before lockdown I would never watch a match unless it was Villa but this season I’ve watched a lot of games and have really enjoyed watching many teams play exciting football. It does seem to have dried up a fair bit for a lot of clubs in the last couple of months. Not many teams are as free flowing as they have been before Christmas.

[dave.woodhall]

I wonder if they're all starting to feel the effects of the short close-season.