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Author Topic: Financial fair play  (Read 220357 times)

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1170 on: September 05, 2019, 10:00:56 PM »
Most of them just got in the shit due to mismanagement.

I can only think of Leeds and maybe Bradford, twenty years ago, that spent loads.

If a modern day club does that they'll be in a much better position to recover if they can entice billionaires who don't care how much they spend rather than only those looking to bleed the club dry, as those are the owners most likely to be attracted to taking over a club handicapped with Financial "Fair" Play regulations.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1171 on: September 05, 2019, 10:11:08 PM »
That's still not what I asked so i'll try a couple of different questions.

Do you genuinely believe there's a queue of billionaires waiting to take over clubs but don't because of FFP?

And yes or no, as far as you are concerned there is no link between FFP kicking in and the massive drop in number of clubs going into administration?

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1172 on: September 05, 2019, 10:44:02 PM »
First question: no, there will be a handful, but there are fewer because of FFP.

Second question: a number of clubs seem to be getting their acts in gear, but there are still plenty of problems and FFP has done nothing to make things better at Bury. Or Bolton. Or even Blose or Xia-era Villa for that matter. It may be that FFP helps prevent some clubs going into administration. I'm not sure, there's been some speculation that Bury/Bolton could be the tip of the iceberg. We'll see.

Even if it does prevent some clubs going into administration, short-term, long-term it will be to the detriment of the game if clubs know that they are, effectively, banned from trying to compete. Fans will become disaffected, crowds will fall and TV companies will lose interest (in the lower leagues, that is). People don't want to watch a Scottish League South.

There are better ways to protect clubs' future than doing so in a way that prevents competition.

Examples: if some good is to come of the stupidity of Brexit than we can, at least, use it to get rid of the Bosman rule and go back to fees being agreed by tribunal for out of contract players.

When teams receive a "compensation fee" for bigger clubs taking their most talented youngsters off them, said fee should include compensation for the loss of potential future transfer fees. Again, decided by tribunal.

A more equitable sharing of TV money throughout the leagues. Deal to include midweek League One/Two games to increase the TV pot. Probably get rid of the red button Championship games as they prevent people attending matches while offering no recompense to the clubs in question, or those further down the pyramid who may be adversely affected.

And probably plenty of other stuff that more creative people than me can come up with. I refuse to believe that it's a binary choice between the same teams winning everything for all time or financial armageddon for the smaller clubs.

« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 10:48:41 PM by cdbullyweefan »

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1173 on: September 05, 2019, 10:52:38 PM »
I've don't think that FFP isn't perfect but I do think that it's stopping a lot of clubs getting deep into the shit. Without FFP who knows, we may have been even more fucked as we know we wound in our spending in attempts to stay complaint, imagine Xia with a total free reign to spend money we didn't have.

Something I definitely think needs to be done is that the FA/FL sort out fit and proper.

Online paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1174 on: September 05, 2019, 10:56:07 PM »
I think the truth is somewhere between the 2 points. There was a problem but FFP, alongside massively increased financial deals that give the premier league and champions league clubs vastly higher turnover figures, does nothing to help and is actually now probably causing more problems than it solves. There are better ways to do it but we'd need it to be implemented by FIFA and enforced everywhere for it to work. FIFA/UEFA are slowly showing some backbone (as the transfer bans for various clubs have shown) but if the long term health of the game is a true concern then there's plenty more work to do.

Offline ChicagoLion

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1175 on: September 07, 2019, 05:32:11 AM »
So the PL investigating sale of Villa Park according to Telegraph

Offline Risso

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1176 on: September 07, 2019, 08:31:49 AM »
Here you go. Cut and paste from iPhone so apologies for any formatting errors. I think the important bit to take from it is “Three independent valuations.”

Aston Villa’s sale of Villa Park is to be probed by the Premier League to check whether it breached financial fair play regulations, the Daily Telegraph has learnt.

After it emerged independent valuations had been ordered by the English Football League into the sale by Derby County, Sheffield Wednesday and Reading of their own home grounds, it can be revealed that Villa will not escape scrutiny after winning the Championship play-off final to secure a return to the top flight and a £170 million jackpot.

All four clubs sold their stadiums to their own owners – who then leased them back again – in an apparent attempt to balance their books and avoid a transfer ban or points deduction.

It was unclear last night whether the Premier League would follow the EFL’s lead by ordering an independent valuation of Villa Park or simply examine evidence provided by the club before deciding whether the £56.7 million sale represented the kind of “fair market value” required under its rules governing related-party transactions.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––


Villa, Derby, Wednesday and Reading all exploited an EFL rule change that ended a ban on its clubs using profits earned from selling their stadiums to comply with its financial fair play regulations.


The Telegraph has learnt the 2016 rule change was never intended to open the door to such a practise, which was branded “cheating” in May by Leeds United owner Andrea Radrizzani and saw Middlesbrough threaten to sue Derby.

Derby were among three other clubs to have sold their stadiums to their owners and then leased them back
Derby were among three other clubs to have sold their stadiums to their owners and then leased them back CREDIT: ACTION PLUS
Moves are afoot to close it again amid concerns a club could sell their stadium to balance the books and buy it back again without breaching rules which also exempt investment in facilities.

Premier League profit and sustainability rules, with which the EFL’s own regulations were harmonised three years ago, do not prohibit clubs using cash earned from stadium sales to comply with them.

However, Uefa’s Financial Fair Play rules, on which the EFL’s original regulations were based, do, acting as a deterrent for top-flight clubs.

Villa declined to comment last night but a source with knowledge of Villa Park’s sale to owners Nassef Sawiris and Wes Edens, via a group subsidiary company called NSWE Stadium, has told the Telegraph the EFL had already approved it after the club commissioned three independent valuations of the ground.

The Premier League newcomers are thought to be entirely confident of complying with its rules.

Derby, who lost to Villa in the play-off final, sold Pride Park to owner Mel Morris the season before last for £80m, almost double the amount for which it was listed as an asset on the club’s book.


That allowed them to post a pre-tax profit of £14.6 million that year when losses in excess of £39m over a three-year period amount to a breach of the EFL’s profit and sustainability rules.

Last season, Birmingham City were docked nine points after recording total losses of £48.8 million between 2015 and 2018.

Derby, Wednesday and Reading have consistently denied having breached any regulations.

Offline Richard E

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1177 on: September 07, 2019, 08:49:29 AM »
Since Villa Park is priceless any amount paid for it is by definition an undervalue rather than artificially inflated.

Offline eamonn

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1178 on: September 07, 2019, 10:19:19 AM »
VP valued at £56.7m and Pride Park at £80m...I know it's far newer but is Derby's ground in a much more expensive area for land?

Offline LeeB

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1179 on: September 07, 2019, 10:21:25 AM »
VP valued at £56.7m and Pride Park at £80m...I know it's far newer but is Derby's ground in a much more expensive area for land?

Yes, it's now in a massive business park so I'd imagine the land value is a higher as a result.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1180 on: September 07, 2019, 10:21:56 AM »
It may be somewhere that would be easier to develop as it is in a less residential area.

Offline eamonn

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1181 on: September 07, 2019, 10:24:20 AM »
Sounds a bit industrial park officey where souls die.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1182 on: September 07, 2019, 10:30:33 AM »
I agree with the idea of FFP but there needs to be a way for owners to be able to invest, but I don't know how that can be done while trying to make sure a club isn't left deep in the shit if the rich owner/s leave.

The only thing I have thought is that any money pumped in by benevolent owners should be effectively taxed.  So a rich owner wants to plough £100m into his club; fine but 10% must be given to the FA.  Similarly transfers from outside the league structure should be taxed.

The FA, in turn, are obligated, in a not for profit manner, to plough money into the ground roots of the game and also make it available to clubs in exceptional circumstances (Bury etc / social responsibility initiatives etc).

Sorted.

Online Stu

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1183 on: September 07, 2019, 12:57:19 PM »
The FA would totally mis-manage the money. Blundering set of clowns that lost money on Wembley.

Offline purpletrousers

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #1184 on: September 08, 2019, 12:29:40 AM »
Here you go. Cut and paste from iPhone so apologies for any formatting errors.
Apology not accepted. I managed to paste the same thing two pages/days ago on an iPhone cutting out the junk.
;)

Interesting point Dante. Being a career public sector bod I know nothing of this, do investments usually get taxed?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2019, 03:14:08 AM by purpletrousers »

 


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