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Author Topic: Financial fair play  (Read 219867 times)

Online paul_e

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #210 on: May 30, 2018, 06:04:58 PM »
And it doesn't have to be commercially viable if the person sponsoring it is the same person that owns the club and is just using it as a way to pump a few million into the club.

It does.  FFP includes anti-abuse rules which say that transactions between connected parties (which Recon clearly is to the Villa) need to be at market value or they're removed from the calculation.

But as you say, there aren't really many comparisons they can use to find the market value.

How many clubs are looking at a regen project for the entire area and have a connected party that would be used to do the work and needs the exposure?
How many grounds are going to be used as party of a major international sporting competition in a few years time which would add further exposure?
How many existing grounds have been sponsored and at what value? Newcastle has been mentioned, are there many others?  From what I can find Wonga agreed around £6m a year as shirt and stadium sponsor 6 years ago.  With changes in circumstance and all the extra money in the game I really don't see those, along with the training ground, being ignored if we agreed to a figure about double that, or a touch higher.

Online pauliewalnuts

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #211 on: May 30, 2018, 06:22:00 PM »
Quote
We are all aware that we will face severe FFP challenges next season. I am an Aston Villa fan. But I am also a businessman. Under the current circumstances, I think the club needs to rethink not only the past two years but also the past ten years. Villa needs to be a sustainable football club. People join. People leave

So

- no pumping in of money
- bye bye Jack

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #212 on: May 30, 2018, 06:25:03 PM »
If we have to find £40 million in savings essentially this summer....

£3 million - Terry leaving
£2 million - Gabby leaving
£3 million - Gollini leaving
£2 million - Gil leaving
£2 million - Snodgrass leaving
£2 million - Elphick to Reading
£6 million - McCormack (4 million fee plus the wages saved)
£1 million - Johnstone leaving
£2 million - Deleat leaving
£1 million - Samba leaving
£1 million - Grabban leaving
£3 million - Lansbury leaving
£1 million - Hutton leaving

Even with all of that we are only at around £30 million, would be seriously screwed as we would be a keeper short, have 1 left back and 1 centre half, need 2 wingers and a centre forward. Going to need an incredibly patient fan base and board for whoever has this task. Could easily end up where Sunderland are (they must even more fucked than we are!)

Offline Richard E

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #213 on: May 30, 2018, 06:26:36 PM »
We bet the farm on red and it came out black.

Offline chrisw1

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #214 on: May 30, 2018, 06:31:31 PM »
So other than pulling up the drawbridge for the elite few, all FFP really does is fuck over any clubs with the slightest bit of ambition.

I fucking hate modern football.

Offline ozzjim

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #215 on: May 30, 2018, 06:36:05 PM »
So other than pulling up the drawbridge for the elite few, all FFP really does is fuck over any clubs with the slightest bit of ambition.

I fucking hate modern football.

Essentially it has protected the top few clubs at the time it was introduced. The fact we invested it poorly under RDM and Bruce on the parachute (£30 million on McCormack, Tsishbola, Hogan, Lansbury plus their wages for what, 15 games this season) is partly what has killed us though.

Offline amfy

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #216 on: May 30, 2018, 06:36:56 PM »
Gollini jas just been sold for 3.5mill - so thats half a mill more + any part wages we were propping up.

Remember most sales put the wages as well.as the transfer fee in the pot.

If Barney has a decent world cup he could draw a good fee and he's not on your list.

If we can keep a reasonable core, we have some decent youths, & we can look at some cheaper loans.

Blackpool got out of this division straight through from league one - it doesn't take loads of money. Its takes organisation and team spirit. Lets see if we can get those

Online SamTheMouse

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #217 on: May 30, 2018, 06:45:29 PM »
I stand by my assessment that since (fucking) Cardiff got out of this division and didn't even have to do it via the play-offs, anything is possible.

If we build properly for the long term, it will be time and patience we need, not money.

Mind you, money probably helps a lot.

Fuck. Time to start drinking.

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #218 on: May 30, 2018, 06:53:42 PM »
And it doesn't have to be commercially viable if the person sponsoring it is the same person that owns the club and is just using it as a way to pump a few million into the club.

It does.  FFP includes anti-abuse rules which say that transactions between connected parties (which Recon clearly is to the Villa) need to be at market value or they're removed from the calculation.

You miss the point again. Say for arguments sake the experts consider its correct market value is £5m a year to sponsor a stadium like VP, many companies won't bother as they'd consider it poor value for money as everyone will still call it Villa Park, and the only reason they'd want to spend that money is for advertising. If I want to spend £5m a year purely as a way to spend money on the club to help with FFP, I wouldn't care if anyone calls it The PWS Stadium or they all carry on calling it Villa Park as I didn't invest the money for the sponsorship value.

Offline PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #219 on: May 30, 2018, 07:00:34 PM »
If we have to find £40 million in savings essentially this summer....

£3 million - Terry leaving
£2 million - Gabby leaving
£3 million - Gollini leaving
£2 million - Gil leaving
£2 million - Snodgrass leaving
£2 million - Elphick to Reading
£6 million - McCormack (4 million fee plus the wages saved)
£1 million - Johnstone leaving
£2 million - Deleat leaving
£1 million - Samba leaving
£1 million - Grabban leaving
£3 million - Lansbury leaving
£1 million - Hutton leaving

Even with all of that we are only at around £30 million, would be seriously screwed as we would be a keeper short, have 1 left back and 1 centre half, need 2 wingers and a centre forward. Going to need an incredibly patient fan base and board for whoever has this task. Could easily end up where Sunderland are (they must even more fucked than we are!)

£15m for Grealish when he goes to Huddersfield or Watford or wherever - We'll have £5m to buy a squad and pay wages. Job done.

Offline sirlordbaltimore

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #220 on: May 30, 2018, 07:13:17 PM »


No we all know what the situation is, from the horses mouth. I hope to fuck people don't start bleating next season if we're nowhere near the play offs

This is going to be a long haul to get back to the PL now, doing it on a budget and with a lot of homegrowns

Time to put on your big boy pants and buckle in for the ride

Offline Ads

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #221 on: May 30, 2018, 07:56:12 PM »
The biggest thing I take from the statement is that Bruce will be off.

Agreed.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #222 on: May 30, 2018, 07:57:17 PM »
And it doesn't have to be commercially viable if the person sponsoring it is the same person that owns the club and is just using it as a way to pump a few million into the club.

It does.  FFP includes anti-abuse rules which say that transactions between connected parties (which Recon clearly is to the Villa) need to be at market value or they're removed from the calculation.

You miss the point again. Say for arguments sake the experts consider its correct market value is £5m a year to sponsor a stadium like VP, many companies won't bother as they'd consider it poor value for money as everyone will still call it Villa Park, and the only reason they'd want to spend that money is for advertising. If I want to spend £5m a year purely as a way to spend money on the club to help with FFP, I wouldn't care if anyone calls it The PWS Stadium or they all carry on calling it Villa Park as I didn't invest the money for the sponsorship value.

I haven't missed the point, you're arguing the wrong point.

FFP rules require transactions with related parties to be on a commercial basis.  Like you say yourself, the reason you'd want to sponsor a stadium is for marketing purposes but if no one will call it by the new name, there's no value there.  No "expert" is going to say something's market value is £5m if no-one would pay it.  If, again as you say, you're really just sticking money in to get around FFP then there's clearly no commercial basis for that.

The test is essentially "What would an independent 3rd party pay for this?" so what Tone wants to put in in return for "naming rights" is irrelevant.

Offline Ads

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #223 on: May 30, 2018, 08:08:18 PM »
A subjective test like that is open for discretion. If we bring evidence to the table and we have things in our favour given the explosion of football in emerging markets and our ever pressence on the box- we are better placed than most in this league. Nobody would pay £10 million a year to sponsor your bibs and training ground surely? But they do. Nobody would be an official noodle sponsor? But there are. This is a very peculiar market.

Far better to make use of the opaque nature of Chinese business and circumvent the rules that way. Good luck picking the bones out of that EFL legal team.

Actually a land sale would work. RECON want to change Aston in a similar way that N17 is likely to and around Arsenal and Wembley has. Flog the land and lease it back for peppercorn rent given we're the flagship anchor tenant.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 08:10:34 PM by Ads »

Offline PeterWithesShin

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Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #224 on: May 30, 2018, 08:14:05 PM »
I could be the shirt sponsor, no one to do with FFP would care why i'm sponsoring the shirt and the players have "PWS" on their shirts, as long as i'm paying the going rate and not a billion a year. The same applies to the stadium, or anything to do with the club that they want to offer for sponsorship.
I specifically said if everyone, including FFP, agreed the market value naming rights to VP was worth £5m a year, it could be £3m, £1m, (the value is totally irrelevant to the point) I could pay it. As could Tony. Or anyone else. It is an easy way for me or Tony, or you, to put money into the club if so inclined, and of course have the cash to do so.

Stadium naming rights have a value, the only things debatable are what that value is, and then whether Tony can, or wants to, pay it.

 


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