collapse collapse

Please donate to help towards the costs of keeping this site going. Thank You.

Recent Topics

UEFA Europa Conference League-Knockout stages (Lille) by astonvilla82
[Today at 06:07:12 AM]


West Ham v Aston Villa post match by astonvilla82
[Today at 05:57:04 AM]


Unai Emery - our manager by ROBBO
[Today at 04:59:13 AM]


FFP by Percy McCarthy
[Today at 04:08:44 AM]


International Rugby by dcdavecollett
[Today at 01:12:03 AM]


Games Moved for TV by Percy McCarthy
[March 18, 2024, 11:00:20 PM]


Press-ing on by Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle
[March 18, 2024, 10:48:26 PM]


Luton A by purpletrousers
[March 18, 2024, 10:24:29 PM]

Recent Posts

Re: UEFA Europa Conference League-Knockout stages (Lille) by astonvilla82
[Today at 06:07:12 AM]


Re: West Ham v Aston Villa post match by astonvilla82
[Today at 05:57:04 AM]


Re: Unai Emery - our manager by ROBBO
[Today at 04:59:13 AM]


Re: FFP by Percy McCarthy
[Today at 04:08:44 AM]


Re: Unai Emery - our manager by adrenachrome
[Today at 02:23:42 AM]


Re: FFP by adrenachrome
[Today at 02:10:34 AM]


Re: Unai Emery - our manager by dcdavecollett
[Today at 01:38:48 AM]


Re: International Rugby by dcdavecollett
[Today at 01:12:03 AM]

Follow us on...

Author Topic: Financial fair play  (Read 219703 times)

Offline David_Nab

  • Member
  • Posts: 4260
  • Location: Luton
  • GM : 24.12.2015
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #150 on: May 29, 2018, 11:57:26 AM »
I think that whatever happens we will be competitive next season, we've just missed capitalising on the massive advantage we've had for these past two seasons.

Those wages ( and I expect we paid a significant % of wages to the loan players as well ) make a mockery of Bruce's continual I have had to work with FFP crap to put in perspective we lost to a Bolton side with a £5k a week wage cap due to going into administration ..thats real hardship not paying Terry 70k a week , Lansbury 35k a week etc ...

Offline wolfman999

  • Member
  • Posts: 902
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #151 on: May 29, 2018, 12:14:17 PM »
I think that whatever happens we will be competitive next season, we've just missed capitalising on the massive advantage we've had for these past two seasons.

Those wages ( and I expect we paid a significant % of wages to the loan players as well ) make a mockery of Bruce's continual I have had to work with FFP crap to put in perspective we lost to a Bolton side with a £5k a week wage cap due to going into administration ..thats real hardship not paying Terry 70k a week , Lansbury 35k a week etc ...

I would agree except that surely as a club we are operating at a much higher level than Bolton. In terms of club size, support, TV exposure, etc. there's no comparison.

Offline Matt Collins

  • Member
  • Posts: 10884
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #152 on: May 29, 2018, 12:21:42 PM »
Lansbury and hourihane were coming to the end of their contracts so were well placed to negotiate big deals

I think Ads' maths above was a little reasuring. Let's say we do need 40:

C 12 less in wages from those leaving, factoring in win and goal bonuses
C 8 from Amavi
C 1 from Gil
C 3 from sell on fees for veretout and Adama (complete guess,)
C 3 from other non playing sales
C 3 from Recon sponsoring BMH

Theres a lot of guesswork there. But that would be 30 or so

So we need 10 more, but have to factor in the need for some more players (keeper, CB) and amortisation

So would need to sell more than £10m worth of players. But perhaps would be possible to sell, say adomah, hourihane and Hogan?


Offline Ad@m

  • Member
  • Posts: 12563
  • GM : 23.03.2023
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #153 on: May 29, 2018, 12:26:38 PM »
According to one of the papers yesterday Jedinak is on 45k a week and Lansbury 35k a week.

If Henri can somehow wrangle 35k a week when I don't think he's played a single minute of premier league football in his career then I imagine Hourihane wouldn't be far off that. If he isn't he needs to sack his agent.

Then you factor in players dropping down from the prem like AEM and Whelan.

As much as I'm trying to put a better spin on things we are in a bit of a hole with yet again the wage bill compared to what we're turning over. We're paying our squad players not far off what the squad players at Spurs are getting.

Either we let Steve Bruce get on with it to sort out his own mess of putting together an ageing expensive squad or we gave that as the main reason for mutually consenting his deal.

Of course that will have to be another manager we pay off so would that go against us on FFP?

How the hell did we end up paying those wages , its not like we were in competition with other teams for them ..Jedinek I can excuse a little as at least he was dropping down a league but Lanbury really FFS

Lansbury was captain at Forest so was probably their highest earner.  Ditto Hourihane.  £30/£35k a week seems like about the going rate for a mid-table Championship team captain.  You can probably apply the same logic to McCormack (Fulham captain) and Jedi (Palace captain).  It's only the Villa that sign players on this level as squad players.

Therein lies the problem with Bruce's shit or bust approach, which is not a million miles away from MON's shit or bust approach to getting in the Champions League.  The business plan makes sense if you achieve the target.  If you don't though, the house of cards collapses pretty quickly.

Offline Matt Collins

  • Member
  • Posts: 10884
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #154 on: May 29, 2018, 12:32:31 PM »
Yep.

The spurs strategy was more medium term. Focus on large quantities of younger players some of whom will come good and some won't

Anyway, that's all old hat now

Online ChicagoLion

  • Member
  • Posts: 22049
  • Location: Chicago
  • Literally
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #155 on: May 29, 2018, 12:45:04 PM »
Lansbury and hourihane were coming to the end of their contracts so were well placed to negotiate big deals

I think Ads' maths above was a little reasuring. Let's say we do need 40:

C 12 less in wages from those leaving, factoring in win and goal bonuses
C 8 from Amavi
C 1 from Gil
C 3 from sell on fees for veretout and Adama (complete guess,)
C 3 from other non playing sales
C 3 from Recon sponsoring BMH

Theres a lot of guesswork there. But that would be 30 or so

So we need 10 more, but have to factor in the need for some more players (keeper, CB) and amortisation

So would need to sell more than £10m worth of players. But perhaps would be possible to sell, say adomah, hourihane and Hogan?
If you sell Hogan for 5 then you still write off another 4 mil, so now you need to find another 4 and assuming Hourihane and Adonai break even on value that’s 14 mil profit they still have to find, if your Mathis are right.
The obvious answer is sell Grealish, and I can not see how that won’t happen.

Offline Matt Collins

  • Member
  • Posts: 10884
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #156 on: May 29, 2018, 01:00:32 PM »
That's true on Hogan. You'd save his wages on top of course

But hourihane only cost 1.5. so you'd see the bulk of what, £7m to a gullible buyer plus £1.5m in wages?

Offline SoccerHQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 42391
  • Location: Down, down, deeper and Down.
  • GM : 19.06.2021
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #157 on: May 29, 2018, 07:05:50 PM »
In two minds about Hourihane. Limited but does score goals at this level.

Remember the Wyness line about needing 80 goals to go up automatically?

Wolves got 82 and Fulham 79 so Cardiff were the only ones to buck that trend as they got up with just 69 goals. (we scored 72).

So as minimum you need one striker capable of hitting 20 goals (Grabban would've done that for us over a full season), a midifelder capable of hitting 10 + (Hourihane) and one of the wider players also getting double figures (Adomah before xmas).

Alright selling these players but we need to find as good replacements with the limited budget we have.

Offline Matt Collins

  • Member
  • Posts: 10884
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #158 on: May 29, 2018, 07:07:39 PM »
Its gonna involve some hard choices.

We'll need our strikers to contribute more as well

Offline Steve67

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12198
  • Location: Down south now. Born in Aston.
  • GM : 01.12.2024
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #159 on: May 29, 2018, 07:09:44 PM »
Hopefully, Gollini going to Atalanta? 3.5m Euro's.  Another loss but we'll take the money.

Offline SoccerHQ

  • Member
  • Posts: 42391
  • Location: Down, down, deeper and Down.
  • GM : 19.06.2021
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #160 on: May 29, 2018, 07:13:44 PM »
We have similar players in quite a few positions.

I don't think there's much between Bjarni and Hourihane at all. Bjarni scored some nice goals in his appearences so think he'd hit 10 if he was a week in week out player.

We obviously can't carry Whelan and Jedinak in the squad next season.

De Laet is one who's been forgotten and back from his loan but again you would have him, Bree and AEM as RB options.

Lansbury can't even make the 18 now, he needs to be moved out if possible.

Offline old man villa fan

  • Member
  • Posts: 3458
  • Location: Birmingham
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #161 on: May 29, 2018, 08:06:36 PM »
Lansbury and hourihane were coming to the end of their contracts so were well placed to negotiate big deals

I think Ads' maths above was a little reasuring. Let's say we do need 40:

C 12 less in wages from those leaving, factoring in win and goal bonuses
C 8 from Amavi
C 1 from Gil
C 3 from sell on fees for veretout and Adama (complete guess,)
C 3 from other non playing sales
C 3 from Recon sponsoring BMH

Theres a lot of guesswork there. But that would be 30 or so

So we need 10 more, but have to factor in the need for some more players (keeper, CB) and amortisation

So would need to sell more than £10m worth of players. But perhaps would be possible to sell, say adomah, hourihane and Hogan?
If you sell Hogan for 5 then you still write off another 4 mil, so now you need to find another 4 and assuming Hourihane and Adonai break even on value that’s 14 mil profit they still have to find, if your Mathis are right.
The obvious answer is sell Grealish, and I can not see how that won’t happen.


Using your example, if somebody wanted to buy Hogan for £5m, wouldn't you ask for a £1m loan fee and a guarantee to buy for a further £4m at the end of next season.  Thus delaying the write off of part of the loss.

Offline Ad@m

  • Member
  • Posts: 12563
  • GM : 23.03.2023
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #162 on: May 29, 2018, 08:55:11 PM »
You can delay the loss on sale but you can't delay the amortisation.

If we're saying Hogan's book value is £9m and it's amortising at £3m per year a sale for £5m would crystallise a £4m loss.

Taking a loan fee of £1m would result in a £3m amortisation charge - net result £2m.

So yeah, short term its better but only if the other club is committed to buying the player. Otherwise you stand to lose £4m if you can't sell him the following year.

Offline Richard E

  • Member
  • Posts: 13025
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Tipton
  • This also will pass.
  • GM : 28.02.2019
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #163 on: May 29, 2018, 08:56:19 PM »
One measly win against bloody Fulham and we wouldn't be having to worry about any of this crap. Ffs.

Offline Nunkin1965

  • Member
  • Posts: 3134
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Planet Earth
  • This is only a problem.
Re: Financial fair play
« Reply #164 on: May 29, 2018, 09:01:52 PM »
One measly win against bloody Fulham and we wouldn't be having to worry about any of this crap. Ffs.
I keep seeing Jack's mazy run.
That slight deflection on the shot..

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal