Summer transfer, gossip and speculation thread

[paul_e]

With amortization to consider, do you similarly have to factor in the purchase price to factor your overall loss or gain for FFP?

I.e. We sign Gollini for £5 million on a 5 year deal. His book value is therefore now £3 million. We sell him for £3.5 million, so we're £500k up on his book value. We then remove his £1.5 million wages from the balance sheet, so the difference is now £2 million.

Have we reduced the FFP deficit by £2 million? Or do we have to then factor the £1.5 million loss between disposal cost and acquisition cost? So we'd be only £500k up?

The £2m is the value as far as FFP is concerned.

That's why I'm not sure what we can do about Hogan and McCormack.  In both cases I think we'd struggle to get an offer high enough to do more than break even on FFP but neither of them really offer us anything right now.

[tomd2103]

Tobias Pachonik from serie B side Carpi being linked. Free agent. No neither have I.

A quick google suggests he's a right back so I can see why we're linked, Bruce likes to keep a good stock of them.

See, that's the kind of nonsensical thinking that has got us in a financial mess.  Four right-backs at the club all on decent money is the kind of idiotic approach that has plagued the club for some time now. 

[shipscat]

With amortization to consider, do you similarly have to factor in the purchase price to factor your overall loss or gain for FFP?

I.e. We sign Gollini for £5 million on a 5 year deal. His book value is therefore now £3 million. We sell him for £3.5 million, so we're £500k up on his book value. We then remove his £1.5 million wages from the balance sheet, so the difference is now £2 million.

Have we reduced the FFP deficit by £2 million? Or do we have to then factor the £1.5 million loss between disposal cost and acquisition cost? So we'd be only £500k up?

The £2m is the value as far as FFP is concerned.

That's why I'm not sure what we can do about Hogan and McCormack.  In both cases I think we'd struggle to get an offer high enough to do more than break even on FFP but neither of them really offer us anything right now.

I think the way we're try and manage this,if we have no genuine interest in keeping them or anyone else whom potentially is worth a big loss on the FFP front is to offload them on a loan basis initially.

Hence,we could let Hogan go off on loan for a nominal fee, with an agreement of say 4 million at the end of the season pre agreed.Which would mean in FFP terms a break even amount,in fact a small profit if the rumoured fee to Brentford was 8M.

We,ve done something similar on Amavi,Elphick etc.However,it leads to an an ever decreasing circle of  less money available as effectively we barely make a profit on anyone in real terms.

[Ads]

With amortization to consider, do you similarly have to factor in the purchase price to factor your overall loss or gain for FFP?

I.e. We sign Gollini for £5 million on a 5 year deal. His book value is therefore now £3 million. We sell him for £3.5 million, so we're £500k up on his book value. We then remove his £1.5 million wages from the balance sheet, so the difference is now £2 million.

Have we reduced the FFP deficit by £2 million? Or do we have to then factor the £1.5 million loss between disposal cost and acquisition cost? So we'd be only £500k up?

The £2m is the value as far as FFP is concerned.

That's why I'm not sure what we can do about Hogan and McCormack.  In both cases I think we'd struggle to get an offer high enough to do more than break even on FFP but neither of them really offer us anything right now.

That's what I was mulling over.

With Hogan for example, if he's on £35k per week and a 4 year deal, then we'd need to sell him for more than £4.5 million to make any money to chip away at the FFP deficit.

If the manager does not want him surely better to loan him for a million this year, hope he plays well and then sell him for an agreed £4 million next summer. That way we benefit to the tune of £2.8m this year for FFP and then the same again next year when his book value is down to £3m.

[ChicagoLion]

With amortization to consider, do you similarly have to factor in the purchase price to factor your overall loss or gain for FFP?

I.e. We sign Gollini for £5 million on a 5 year deal. His book value is therefore now £3 million. We sell him for £3.5 million, so we're £500k up on his book value. We then remove his £1.5 million wages from the balance sheet, so the difference is now £2 million.

Have we reduced the FFP deficit by £2 million? Or do we have to then factor the £1.5 million loss between disposal cost and acquisition cost? So we'd be only £500k up?

The £2m is the value as far as FFP is concerned.

That's why I'm not sure what we can do about Hogan and McCormack.  In both cases I think we'd struggle to get an offer high enough to do more than break even on FFP but neither of them really offer us anything right now.

That's what I was mulling over.

With Hogan for example, if he's on £35k per week and a 4 year deal, then we'd need to sell him for more than £4.5 million to make any money to chip away at the FFP deficit.

If the manager does not want him surely better to loan him for a million this year, hope he plays well and then sell him for an agreed £4 million next summer. That way we benefit to the tune of £2.8m this year for FFP and then the same again next year when his book value is down to £3m.

See my explanation above.
If Hogan is still on the Balance sheet at 9mil and we sell him for 5 mil that is a 4 mil loss.
By losing his wages then the Profit and loss account will benefit by 1.6  mil producing a net loss for the year 2.4 mil.

[Ad@m]

With amortization to consider, do you similarly have to factor in the purchase price to factor your overall loss or gain for FFP?

I.e. We sign Gollini for £5 million on a 5 year deal. His book value is therefore now £3 million. We sell him for £3.5 million, so we're £500k up on his book value. We then remove his £1.5 million wages from the balance sheet, so the difference is now £2 million.

Have we reduced the FFP deficit by £2 million? Or do we have to then factor the £1.5 million loss between disposal cost and acquisition cost? So we'd be only £500k up?

The £2m is the value as far as FFP is concerned.

That's why I'm not sure what we can do about Hogan and McCormack.  In both cases I think we'd struggle to get an offer high enough to do more than break even on FFP but neither of them really offer us anything right now.

That's what I was mulling over.

With Hogan for example, if he's on £35k per week and a 4 year deal, then we'd need to sell him for more than £4.5 million to make any money to chip away at the FFP deficit.

If the manager does not want him surely better to loan him for a million this year, hope he plays well and then sell him for an agreed £4 million next summer. That way we benefit to the tune of £2.8m this year for FFP and then the same again next year when his book value is down to £3m.

See my explanation above.
If Hogan is still on the Balance sheet at 9mil and we sell him for 5 mil that is a 4 mil loss.
By losing his wages then the Profit and loss account will benefit by 1.6  mil producing a net loss for the year 2.4 mil.

Correct.  To put it another way - selling him now for £5m creates a net loss of £4m.  Keeping him costs us £4.75m (£3m amortisation + £1.75m wages).  It would have to be a weird set of circumstances for FFP to drive a decision that doesn't really make commercial sense.

Loaning him out is an interesting one as it may generate a loan fee and may reduce his wage costs to us but you're kicking the problem down the road and I doubt many clubs would be willing to loan a player with an obligation to buy him at the end of the loan (yes I know Gil is on such a deal but it sounds like Deportivo are even more of a basket case than we were under Lerner!).

[VinnieChase84]

Blues are about to sign a left back for £2.5m, how are they doing this when it’s rumoured they are one of 12 to fail FFP?

[Matt Collins]

The more I think about it, the more I feel we will have to sell grealish

If we do, we'll have to replace the creativity of him and Snodgrass on the cheap

Green can step up but we'd need another wide option, preferably pacey

And we'd need more creativity centrally. Personally, from what I've seen, O'Hare should go on loan rather than be seen as that man

The loan market seems the obvious place to look. I know people don't like it. But someone like Phil Foden just is better than anything we've got and if it puts us 5 places higher up the table than relying on our youth it could be crucial. Harry Wilson from Liverpool is another obvious option

I'd love it to be our kids leading an exciting brand of football next year. But I think the majority need a loan out first to see what they can do.

[sickbeggar]

With everyone being fit from who's left its the defence that worries me. Looks very weak to me and if the rumours that Tuanzebe is on loan again is true, it seems not much at the club is changing. Total false economy paying to loan in someone else's youth player. We don't even know if he's good enough and basically we're paying to improve someone else's asset! get a cheap Championship player in or failing that an experienced free transfer if elphick is deemed too rotten. Our youth can provide the cover, they should have been doing that last season anyway.

[Ads]

Bobby Reid and Hoillet would be two good free transfers.

Pace and Reid is unorthodox too. Hoillet  is ok at this level.

[SoccerHQ]

Problem we'll have is people are just factoring in every signing we'll make this summer is going to be brilliant and fit in perfectly.

When was the last time in a summer transfer dealings we made 4-5 that instantly improved our team?

Last summer the business was good but with the level of experience we signed we knew likes of Terry and Snodgrass were proven and would be good at this level after getting used to things.

However likes of Whelan and Onomah struggled to make a consistant impact.

Given we will have likely lost 5 regular starters from our 11 in the next 6 weeks we need similar standard replacements and that will be very difficult considering our transfers will be mostly from the left field category for first time since summer 2015.

At least they won't be coming up to 30 and handed 3 year deals on 30k a week as that defeats the whole object.

[SheffieldVillain]

The loan market seems the obvious place to look. I know people don't like it. But someone like Phil Foden just is better than anything we've got and if it puts us 5 places higher up the table than relying on our youth it could be crucial. Harry Wilson from Liverpool is another obvious option

I'd love it to be our kids leading an exciting brand of football next year. But I think the majority need a loan out first to see what they can do.

I get where you're coming from with this. But would a season in League One or Two necessarily show what they can do at a higher level? No point in loaning them out to another Championship club.

The young players brought in last season from the Premier - Tuanzebe and Onomah -  made no difference to us whatsoever. We may as well have given the 10-15 mins per match from subs appearance for Onomah to one of our own then we'd have started to see what they can do. And did Tuanzebe do any better than Bree when given an appearance? Not really.

Give our kids a chance first, then if they aren't up to it yet loan them out. How many of us would have expected Davis to be a reasonable squad player before he got chucked in through necessity last year? Not many.

With Bruce's approach we'll never know if any of the kids are up to it.

[curiousorange]

Bobby Reid and Hoillet would be two good free transfers.

Pace and Reid is unorthodox too. Hoillet  is ok at this level.

I like Hoilett. There was a point about five years ago when he was destined for big things.

[footyskillz]

Tobias Pachonik from serie B side Carpi being linked. Free agent. No neither have I.

A quick google suggests he's a right back so I can see why we're linked, Bruce likes to keep a good stock of them.

See, that's the kind of nonsensical thinking that has got us in a financial mess.  Four right-backs at the club all on decent money is the kind of idiotic approach that has plagued the club for some time now.

Yeah he's anyone but Bree atm. If this ridiculous signing happens just to replace Hutton then where is the balance to the squad.

[villabear]

Tobias Pachonik from serie B side Carpi being linked. Free agent. No neither have I.

Sounds a bit fishy to me.