When English Football Ruled Europe

[dave.woodhall]

When we were in Hamburg we took 4 times as many as Ajax had done previously and the German police commented on what a load of throbbers Ajax had been compared to us.

What's that in English?

[villa `cross the mersey]

The hooliganism aspect shouldn't be understated-  when I went to Villa Park to get my tickets for the final I was interviewed by Dutch TV and asked if I had been at Anderlecht - I had been and gave my account of how the policing had been a bit over the top - the interviewer made it clear that the Dutch Police were expecting  a bit of bovver between the German and English fans - as it turned out the Dutch Police handled it just right - due to the Dutch ambivalence towards Germans all the neutrals / locals were backing the Villa

When I worked in Tenerife doing hotel entertainment the amount of guests was normally mostly Brits followed by Germans followed by the Dutch. From mixing with plenty of Dutch people and hearing their opinions of the race they called 'the squareheads', I think your term of 'Dutch ambivalence' is a very polite way to describe the Dutch people's feelings towards their neighbours.

I have been visiting Nederland for over 40  years and have many good friends there -  their dislike of the Germans stems ostensibly from the treatment they received when occupied in WW 2 by the Nazis
I regularly holiday in Winterswijk in the East of the country and close to the German border - speaking to locals who lived through the occupation gives you an insight to what were troubled and difficult times - as liberators the Brits are still held in high esteem

[steffo]

My mate was working in Germany and went to Rotterdam and bought 6 tickets at the ground two weeks before for the Villa end. what's more he bought them speaking German!!!

[purpletrousers]

I was lucky enough to be at the final in Rotterdam, and thought the ITV4 programme was really nicely done.

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a good deal of photographic footage of Rotterdam generally out there.  There are just one or two long range shots of the Villa end to be found on the web, and I search for me and my cap (to no avail) amongst the thousands - I recall roughly where I was stood. 

Yep ditto that. Watched it on my phone this eve thanks to a H&V parishioner sharing Villa Boy on Facebook.

I'm away at the moment but there is someone I can ask with a personal archive, I'm not sure if he was at the match.

I was an eleven year old in the front row of the top tier behind the goal we scored into. Quite central but just to the left of the goal. It was a very warm night. To this day, apart from the end I was in I am not sure who was where in the rest of the ground regarding Villa fans, Bayern fans and neutrals.

I was 8 Damo (I've presumed there can't have been many much younger than me) and a bit behind you. As has been pointed out the Dutch were obviously majorly pro-Villa, about the only European nation that love the Brits eh? My biggest memory of the goal celebration was the Dutch geezer in the row behind grabbing me in jubilation, and after checking I played football, telling me he wanted to his newborn to grow up to be like me!

Yeah I had no idea Newbon was on the bench. That moment of elbowing Spinsky, 'You're on mate'. Unbelievable!

The pennant given out on the way home. The good bunch on the coach including a Dessie Bremner's dad. Yes a very warm night, wearing just my vest and no doubt my Peter Withe sweatbands. Having to neck my fizzy pop we weren't allowed to bring in (we weren't used to being searched I think). As a kid does, promising myself if I joined in every single song in the second half (even the swear words) the we'd win. It worked! The distant but priceless glimmer of that trophy held aloft. Watching brought back a lot of memories.

I remember discussing how little trouble there'd been, and I think my Dad pointing out the state a lot of the villa were in on the way back, if we'd lost he wasn't so sure it would have been so peaceful...

[McGraths Dry Cleaning]

Top viewing. Remember my Dad (Wolves fan) watching it on TV with me and celebrating when we scored. The Gary Newbon bit about being on the bench was fascinating. My Dad disliked Newbon (not sure why) and we saw him at a Wolves game and he made me go and get his autograph as a piss take (although I think Newbon thought I was a genuine "fan" lol). I also got Tony Morley's autograph around that time on the back of a Benson & Hedges fag packet when we saw him watching some football at Beacon Park in Lichfield. I loved the Bayern player saying Villa weren't playing English football but European. What a team we had then and how overlooked Ron Saunders is as a manager.

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be but programs about football of this era remind me how football came with a threat of violence in those days. It turned a lot of people off football and kept them away.

[wittonwarrior]

Why on earth did Ellis allow the team to be broken up so quickly.

[dave.woodhall]

Why on earth did Ellis allow the team to be broken up so quickly.

This is not me, these are the words of Dennis Mortimer, and as such are beyond argument:

"The players didn't talk to Ellis, and it was a real strain to him that on away trips he had to keep his distance. He's always wanted to be loved and while we were there he couldn't have any affinity with the players. He wanted to be accepted and to do that he had to break up the loyalty of the players to the manager."

[thebravadokid]

Even my Lichfield Villains flag got an airing when they were showing the Kiev away game in Simferopol.

Was this the original flag lifted off a building site on Eastern Avenue?

[lennythekad]

Even my Lichfield Villains flag got an airing when they were showing the Kiev away game in Simferopol.

Was this the original flag lifted off a building site on Eastern Avenue?

No mate, it was lifted off a building site on Boley Park by the Turnpike pub in about 1980 😜😜

[thebravadokid]

I remember a flag being liberated from it's pole
 on the estate opposite the Dr. Johnson in the mid
 70's. Nice to see you stuck with tradition.

[Big Dick Edwards]

The white one is the UEFA edition and the other was printed by Feyenoord. The latter is, I beIieve, the rarer of the two.

I've got both. The unofficial one is littered with errors about our players.

[144 Hard Boiled Eggs]

Why were there so many empty seats? That's always what it looks like on the YouTube clips anyway.

I think it was down to the recession and people's personal finances, football violence and football attendances in general around that time. But you are right, looking at the TV footage it seems quite empty compared to other European cup finals around those years.

I think Damo, PWS and Rudy nailed the main reasons, notably the recession and hooliganism, with falling attendances across the country. The recession had really kicked in by then and our poor league form meant gates were lower than the previous season.

Air travel was not affordable in 1982 so most people would have had to take a couple of days off work to travel on the club trains and coaches. Also, in theory you could only get a ticket and travel package from the club- no ticket only sales from UEFA or Feyenoord. In reality there were a few Dutch lads scattered around the Villa end (“tonight we are English”) and a coach load of lads went from the Crown &Cushion and got tickets. There was also a knot of Villa fans at the opposite end of the ground in the Bayern end.i have no idea how they got their tickets.

It would have been very hard for neutrals to buy a ticket for the game -UEFA absolutely wanted to avoid trouble and repeats of the scenes from Anderlecht. So the hangers on and locals who attend finals now could not go back then. A mate of mine who is  a Wednesday fan was living in Holland at the time and pestered his dad to go (he was only 12) and he could only get tickets via some sponsors. So he, his brother and his dad were sat behind the goal with the Bayern fans and celebrated our win. We always joke that he has seen as many Villa trophies as Wednesday - all he has to show is the 1991 Rumbelows cup final v Manyoo.

I'm sure I remember there being talk at the time of ferry numbers being cut due to the military using them for the Falklands conflict (for freight etc.). Not sure if it affected the number of fans getting over there though.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

I remember a flag being liberated from it's pole
 on the estate opposite the Dr. Johnson in the mid
 70's. Nice to see you stuck with tradition.

In 1977 I liberated a flag from a Conservative Club in Huddersfield. (If I hadn't been so drunk I would never have climbed that flagpole).
Weeks later, it was liberated from me in Bilbao. (If I hadn't been so drunk those Bilbao fans would not have been able to take it from me so easily). 

[Legion]

My old Lions blog has a whole section devoted to pictures of this match sent to me by Christopher Barton. It is sadly no longer available. Cannot even find it on the Internet Archive.

[Legion]

Found it!