Manager suggestions - Now with added poll

[Drummond]

Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.

Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.

All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?

Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.

What about the difference in squad quality?

Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.

What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.

[Chico Hamilton III]

I agree that we should copy Man City and Chelsea and sack our manager as soon as it's clear tat he's not going to do what he was hired for in the first place. You won't see either of them hanging on to a lame duck manager 

[boozey182]

Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.

Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.

All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?

Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.

What about the difference in squad quality?

Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.

What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.

That last bit is exactly right, and absolutely hits the nail on the head as to why hiring Bruce was such a bad move. If we were really planning on building gradually, we needed a forward thinking, progressive manager, with a clear philosophy and game plan. Even Bruce's biggest fans wouldn't claim that he is that. Wagner might have been, but we'll never know for sure. I think it's foolish to play down what he has done at Huddersfield though, it's an incredible job he's done there.

We gambled that Bruce would be able to sneak us into the playoffs last year, which I guess wasn't a ridiculous move, and for a while it looked like we had a shot. Around Christmas, we looked on course. However, we faded away (/fell off a cliff) so it didn't pay off.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it now looks like we should have cut our losses in May and started the rebuilding process all over again.

[Tugby Villain]

Julian Nagelsmann gets my vote:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/15/hoffenheim-julian-nagelsmann-liverpool-champions-league

[London Villan]

Stick or twist, it's a gamble. A lot of people said we should have binned Sherwood at the end of the Cup Final season, hindsight would prove them right. Same with Bruce, I can see why we chose him, but it's not working now however it would have been a big decision to sack him over the summer.

Any manager coming in is a gamble, clubs get it wrong more than they get it right. Look at the managers Spurs, Everton, Liverpool and even Chelsea have had and then got rid of. It's even more tough at a mid-table Championship side (albeit with a lot of potential).

[DB]

Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.

Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.

All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?

Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.

What about the difference in squad quality?

Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.

What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.

Agree with all of that. Everyone has  a different idea what constitutes SB having had enough time before it is too late for someone else to come in and get us up - as you say no-one is nailed on success and we could be in same position not long from now.

[passitsideways]

Wagner took over Huddersfield in November 2015 with them 18th in the table and finished 19th.

Last season was promoted having lost 6 of their last 10 games.

All of a sudden he's the one we need? Really? You can imagine the recriminations when we didn't perform straight away. The games they won last season were generally by one goal, which doesn't inspire confidence, does it?

Bruce has been promoted more than anyone else from this division, twice since that article saying he was clueless. The point is whichever manager you get, you're not guaranteed a thing.

What about the difference in squad quality?

Nobody has said a particular manager is a guaranteed thing either.

What about squad quality? We've seen time and time again that a proper team will outdo a bunch of individuals, we've put together a whole new squad since relegation, had two managers, a bunch of coaches, numerous comings and goings and people expect us to be settled and sorted. It just doesn't work like that. Chelsea and Man City, as prime examples didn't suddenly win the league because they spent loads, they had to build gradually.

Yeah, and there's also been plenty of occasions where a team with more individual quality about them overcomes a well-drilled but inferior team. The only thing you can say comfortably is that you need a mix of both to go places. The fact that Wagner didn't do that well straight away, and got promoted the hard way is far more acceptable in the context where he didn't have a team that was filled with quality players.

As for Bruce, yes, there's been a fair bit of upheaval since he arrived, but most of the players in the squad he's had for at least seven months plus a full pre-season. Sure, it's unfair to expect things to be totally settled and sorted, but the point is, he's done fuck-all to suggest that he's making any progress whatsoever towards that ultimate aim.

[Drummond]

You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?

[aj2k77]

Quite right, those 30 minutes against Hull were scintillating. We will look back on those 30 minutes in years to come and miss that golden period.

[paul_e]

You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?

What good is less than half of a game of looking like a decent team if it doesn't get you a result?

[Drummond]

You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?

What good is less than half of a game of looking like a decent team if it doesn't get you a result?

What is the point of asking an irrelevant question to answer a question?

[passitsideways]

You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?

If you want me to amend my post to make it "sustained progress" I can do that, but I would've thought that descriptor goes without saying.

We had good stretches during games last season under Bruce as well, and each time, it proved to be fleeting, just like what happened at Hull.

[Virgil Caine]

You've seen nothing good whatsoever? Not even against Hull?

What good is less than half of a game of looking like a decent team if it doesn't get you a result?

The problem is that we have been so unaccustomed to any period of half decent football that there  is an inclination to go overboard and think that at last we've cracked it. Unfortunately those brief periods of accidental adequacy just do not compare with the very real quality that Villa teams served up on a consistent basis to those with memories long enough to remember.

As an aside it would be interesting to compare results pre and post Calderwood appointment as I am not convinced he has added anything of a positive nature.

[chrisw1]

The Calderwood thing is really odd.  Before he joined the general thinking was he was a big part of Brightons success.  It now seems maybe not so much.  It is strange that he hasn't been able to replicate any of their qualities on our team notwithstanding the expensively assembled squad.

[aj2k77]

Bruce only had 6 games in charge before Calderwood joined so you couldn't really make a case for anything.