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Author Topic: John Terry - Gone  (Read 550000 times)

Offline Virgil Caine

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #330 on: June 23, 2017, 08:59:26 AM »
I had hopes that the new regime of Wyness, Rounds and He who Walks on Water were going to put in place a different way of working than that been evident in the last 7 years. The potential signing of Terry and the baggage that he comes with appears to indicate no fresh thinking, which to me is really disappointing.


Offline andyh

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #331 on: June 23, 2017, 09:09:51 AM »
Aside from the shitstorm this potential signing is causing, what does this tell us about Bruce's approach to the new season?

I think many, many fans were hoping Bruce would undergo some sort of epiphany this summer that would usher in a new way we approach the game.
Many said we need to change our style of play and become, fitter, stronger, with much more pace and movement.
We need to get away from the dinosaur approach of tippy tappy, sideways, backwards turgid football that had us finishing as a lower half, second division team last season.   

Targeting players like Terry does not suggest to me that Bruce has gone 'all modern' and we will enjoy the sort of football we saw from many other teams last season.
Many other teams who were better than us. 
   
 

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #332 on: June 23, 2017, 09:11:45 AM »
In addition to the objections raised by most posters, I am concerned about  SB's strategy in offering the contract.

A lot of us think the current squad is more than capable of getting us promoted, but  Bruce started playing the card that the players bought in could not cope with the pressure. To me, that is an admission that he is unable to assemble a coaching team or the tactics necessary to do this.

It does not look good, in my view.

We need additional centre half cover so in that sense the squad is not good enough. One of Chester or Baker gets injured or suspended then we are in trouble. If a Terry like player was available but without the baggage then I doubt it would receive half the scrutiny this is. I can understand why people don't want him based on his character but from a purely footballing sense it makes a lot of sense.

I'm struggling to see how "from a purely footballing sense" it makes a lot of sense for a second tier club to employ a 37 year old on £60k a week... as cover?

He won't be cover, so I'm not sure what point you're making. He'll be breaking up the only position in which we looked vaguely competent last season and leaving us lacking funds to address the parts of the team that really need addressing.

We need another centre half, common sense tells us that Baker and Chester cannot play every game, injuries and suspensions will take there toll. So the argument that the squad is good enough does not stand up. If, as part of that deal we get one that is good enough to hold down a starting place then all the better.

It is understandable but I think your judgement of him as a player is clouded by your view of him as a man. He has never had pace but has made up for that with his strength, ability, leadership and positional sense. That is why there are a number of clubs interested in signing him.

On balance I would probably prefer that we didn't sign him but if we do then I am fairly confident that he would be good enough for the Championship.

He might be good enough, he might not. As he's hardly played in the last six months, it's difficult to tell.

Maybe he's better than McGrath, Baresi or Beckenbauer... who all retired or disappeared to the Disney Retirement "Soccer" League at his age.

But you're agreeing that Baker and Chester are okay and that we need to strengthen "the squad'. Buying a player to come straight into the first team at centre-half is not a priority. We can easily get a promising youngster or a solid pro as centre-half cover, save ourselves a fortune in the process and re-invest in areas where we need to strengthen the team, as opposed to just providing cover.

There is no sense in the Terry signing. It's a vanity signing based on reputation rather than the logical needs of the team/squad. Nothing more, nothing less.

Your last sentence just comes across as Theresa May level arrogance, "I know best so will shut down any debate, "Terry means Terry".

I am suggesting that I think the pairing from last season were adequate. Chester is more than good enough but Baker has many obvious flaws to his game, in my opinion, and that is before taking into account his injury record and propensity for picking up cards. We need another centre half, if that was to be of the quality that reduced the number of games we had to play Nathan then all the better. If we signed the dickhead from Chelsea we would have a better defence than last season, but he is a long way from being the only person that could do that.

As I said, I would prefer that we didn't' sign him but that is not to with what I think he could provide on the pitch.

Offline Hookeysmith

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #333 on: June 23, 2017, 09:12:09 AM »
I am actually more worried that Dr Tony is star struck and it is allowing Bruce's clear lack of coaching and leadership skills to be masked over.

I can see Bruce gone by October as I think this year we will be even worse than last - another season will be wasted

If we were alleged to have turned the club around on not to employ McClaren then I feel we should get the same message out

Offline Duncan Shaw

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #334 on: June 23, 2017, 09:13:37 AM »
I've read all on here and can understand fully just about every viewpoint on this signing.

I'm only going to comment football-wise and I it would be fine, I think he's got enough about him to still be decent at this level and he's clearly got some desire if he's willing to slug it out in the Championship rather than go to US for $$$.  He might also bring Baker on somewhat, be good for his development.

2 things have struck me this morning though - firstly the comment above about the owner trying to get one over on Small Heath - this could be bang on the nail and worrying if so.

The other thing is reading the summary linked from the Beeb in the Grauniad, the more I think about it the more he using us and Brucie as a stalking horse - let it out there that they're all pally, that it's a done deal to try and flush out a better offer. 

Offline Abbeyfealeavfc

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #335 on: June 23, 2017, 09:14:21 AM »
For me the link with jt says more about Bruce.
Signing jt who comes with the tag line "no coaching required" suits bruce.
I've never really felt Bruce has had full control/authority over the changing room, since his arrival, especially with gabby, richards and bacuna in the background. Bruce would be hoping that if he had jt, that might help to shift the balance of power in his favour. Personally I would sack off the idea of signing jt and instead use some of the money mentioned (as jt's wages) to pay off any 1 or preferably all 3 of the wastrels mentioned above. The atmosphere at the club would change for the better overnight and we'd still be left with a potentially talented squad for the championship.
Finally for automatic promotion we need to be in the mix after 10-12 games. If we're not its too late to change manager (as we found out last season with rdm). Bruce knows this and probably realises he'll be judged after 6 games, especially after last season's brain freeze in Jan/Feb and missed opportunity to manage the season out after Burton away. The idea of signing jt is a typical Bruce short term quick fix with very little thought given to medium/long term objectives. If it's Bruce's idea to sign a 37 year old, has been, mercenary footballer for  huge wages,  whilst keeping hold of the likes of gabby, richards and bacuna, then I'm fast losing any hope for the coming season.

Offline cannock villa

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #336 on: June 23, 2017, 09:14:36 AM »
So people who say racist things aren't really racist? So who is racist? Are we to sign people who groom children but aren't paedophiles also, just as long as they're 'winners'?
So you have never said anything stupid in the heat of the moment which you obviously don't mean. An argument with a girlfriend/wife, telling off the kids when their naughty and saying I could kill you, it doesn't mean your a murderer.
Big Ron probably did more for black players in the 70's than most in football but then that is all forgotten by one stupid remark.

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #337 on: June 23, 2017, 09:17:49 AM »
Aside from the shitstorm this potential signing is causing, what does this tell us about Bruce's approach to the new season?

I think many, many fans were hoping Bruce would undergo some sort of epiphany this summer that would usher in a new way we approach the game.
Many said we need to change our style of play and become, fitter, stronger, with much more pace and movement.
We need to get away from the dinosaur approach of tippy tappy, sideways, backwards turgid football that had us finishing as a lower half, second division team last season.   

Targeting players like Terry does not suggest to me that Bruce has gone 'all modern' and we will enjoy the sort of football we saw from many other teams last season.
Many other teams who were better than us. 
 

When you consider the Chelsea sides he has play in and the managers he has played under I am not sure that argument holds up. A reliable defence allows the midfield more attacking freedom as they are not constantly having to worry about potential cock ups behind them.

I am really surprised to find myself sort of defending him as I have never had any time for the man but that does not stop me from recognising that he is (was?) a very good centre half.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #338 on: June 23, 2017, 09:18:23 AM »
Is it acceptable to call a fellow professional a "fucking black ******"?

If not; why do you keep defending him with this tiresome "yeah but I bet you've made fun of a foreigner" routine?

Offline brian green

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #339 on: June 23, 2017, 09:20:15 AM »
I am surprised Chris that you take such a pragmatic approach.  I share the view expressed by others that even considering Terry is to replay our old vices of lazy management decisions, profligacy with money and unnecessary risk taking.

Online Monty

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #340 on: June 23, 2017, 09:30:31 AM »
Aside from the shitstorm this potential signing is causing, what does this tell us about Bruce's approach to the new season?

I think many, many fans were hoping Bruce would undergo some sort of epiphany this summer that would usher in a new way we approach the game.
Many said we need to change our style of play and become, fitter, stronger, with much more pace and movement.
We need to get away from the dinosaur approach of tippy tappy, sideways, backwards turgid football that had us finishing as a lower half, second division team last season.   

Targeting players like Terry does not suggest to me that Bruce has gone 'all modern' and we will enjoy the sort of football we saw from many other teams last season.
Many other teams who were better than us. 
 

When you consider the Chelsea sides he has play in and the managers he has played under I am not sure that argument holds up. A reliable defence allows the midfield more attacking freedom as they are not constantly having to worry about potential cock ups behind them.

I am really surprised to find myself sort of defending him as I have never had any time for the man but that does not stop me from recognising that he is (was?) a very good centre half.

Reliable, sure, but not one capable of pushing the high line that we need to change the way we play. Terry could only be 'reliable' in the same kind of defence in the same kind of tactics we saw from Bruce last season - i.e. scared, timid, stay-in-yer-half-and-hope-for-the-best football.

Offline Risso

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #341 on: June 23, 2017, 09:41:28 AM »
I cannot stop shuddering at the prospects of us being called "John Terry's Aston Villa".

That's not likely to be the case though, the media would never do that.  Even with players who we see as Villa heroes, the media like to portray them as belonging elsewhere, eg Paul McGrath and Man U, and David Platt and Arsenal.

Offline Ads

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #342 on: June 23, 2017, 09:56:21 AM »
In retrospect I much preferred being Martin O'Neill's Aston Villa than that turd that wouldn't flush.

Online Monty

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #343 on: June 23, 2017, 09:58:14 AM »
In retrospect I much preferred being Martin O'Neill's Aston Villa than that turd that wouldn't flush.

Without wanting to get into that *again*, that was a lot of money to spend on that style of football. The idea that it was just Martin, and if only we tried Boggy Britball again (did I dream McLeish? Was Lambert a hallucination?) then we'd be fine again - well it's nonsense, isn't it?

Offline auntiesledd

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Re: John Terry - contract offer
« Reply #344 on: June 23, 2017, 10:12:34 AM »
I've just suffered an nauseating flashback of 'Mr Chelski' being given that ego-tastic guard of honour at the end of last season. I'd imagine that any future contract drawn up for the tosser would feature a compulsory halt during every match - so folk could pay full homage to the self-styled Legend that Terry thinks he is. Endearing images abound...

 


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