Pre-Season Friendlies

[Matt Collins]

Apart from Veretout who is probably leaving, the enitire midfield contingent has the speed and turning ability of a Caterpillar dump truck. I never thought I would pine for players like Barry Bannan, but he's Lionel Messi compared to the slow motion antics of Lansbury, Hourihane, Gardner and Bjarnason. Is it any wonder that strikers like McCormack and Hogan struggle, when you have such a lack of pace, creativity and more worringly, an inability to find a player with the same coloured shirt, in the middle of the pitch.

Hourihane was very much a box to box player at Barnsley

I don't understand how Bruce can make a midfield two look so woeful and ineffective, whereas a lot of other Championship teams make it work. Brighton got promoted playing a two with two wingers, one of those midfielders was Sidwell, Chris Hughton must be a miracle worker.

Wouldn't it better to question why none of the two midfielders we've picked to do it can make it work? they're the ones with the ball at their feet after all

If you put Xavi and Iniesta in a midfield two in, say, that Wimbleton team of the 80s and 90s where the job of the centre mids was basically to kick the shit out of anyone who dared to pass through, and punt any ball that fell to them into the corners for someone to chase, do you really think they would've distinguished themselves in any way?

It's basically impossible for any midfielder to show what they're capable of if the setup isn't right. It doesn't have to be perfectly accommodating for them, but we're not close to finding something that's helpful.

On a lesser scale it's a little similar to when we we had Petrov-Barry as the midfield combination (sorry to be all nostalgic to the days when we could actually win a match or two).

Both excellent and clever footballers and they could certainly keep the ball effectively and also move it out quickly to Young so he could get one v one with the full back.

However it was one paced and we struggled many times when teams would come to VP and play three centrally against them.

Always looked better when we put another body in there like NRC or Sidwell even if they were average. Even better when Milner was moved there and it felt like two players alongside Petrov given the vast distance he covered every match.

I still think we need Jedinak or another player of his ilk in there but at the same time we must give more licence for Hourihane and especially Lansbury to push forward and actually join Kodjia in the box for crosses and chances

I agree w every word if we're just focusing on the midfield. But the implication is either that we play with one striker, or three at the back. And there are big questions about both options - essentially (for different reasons) are they attacking enough to score the goals we'll need to get promotion?

[kippaxvilla2]

If I was a visiting alien and happened across a Villa game as one of my first experience on earth, I'd leg it back into the saucer get those delorean doors flipped up at double speed and back to space I'd go.

[ozzjim]

Hourihane was pretty incredible for Barnsely and made it work in a 4 4 2. I think Bruce has them both sitting very deep rather than 1 getting forward and supporting the attack. Which then leaves the forwards isolated and less to target for the wingers. Lansbury is ok but he's little more than a more confident Gardner.

[SoccerHQ]

Apart from Veretout who is probably leaving, the enitire midfield contingent has the speed and turning ability of a Caterpillar dump truck. I never thought I would pine for players like Barry Bannan, but he's Lionel Messi compared to the slow motion antics of Lansbury, Hourihane, Gardner and Bjarnason. Is it any wonder that strikers like McCormack and Hogan struggle, when you have such a lack of pace, creativity and more worringly, an inability to find a player with the same coloured shirt, in the middle of the pitch.

Hourihane was very much a box to box player at Barnsley

I don't understand how Bruce can make a midfield two look so woeful and ineffective, whereas a lot of other Championship teams make it work. Brighton got promoted playing a two with two wingers, one of those midfielders was Sidwell, Chris Hughton must be a miracle worker.

Wouldn't it better to question why none of the two midfielders we've picked to do it can make it work? they're the ones with the ball at their feet after all

If you put Xavi and Iniesta in a midfield two in, say, that Wimbleton team of the 80s and 90s where the job of the centre mids was basically to kick the shit out of anyone who dared to pass through, and punt any ball that fell to them into the corners for someone to chase, do you really think they would've distinguished themselves in any way?

It's basically impossible for any midfielder to show what they're capable of if the setup isn't right. It doesn't have to be perfectly accommodating for them, but we're not close to finding something that's helpful.

On a lesser scale it's a little similar to when we we had Petrov-Barry as the midfield combination (sorry to be all nostalgic to the days when we could actually win a match or two).

Both excellent and clever footballers and they could certainly keep the ball effectively and also move it out quickly to Young so he could get one v one with the full back.

However it was one paced and we struggled many times when teams would come to VP and play three centrally against them.

Always looked better when we put another body in there like NRC or Sidwell even if they were average. Even better when Milner was moved there and it felt like two players alongside Petrov given the vast distance he covered every match.

I still think we need Jedinak or another player of his ilk in there but at the same time we must give more licence for Hourihane and especially Lansbury to push forward and actually join Kodjia in the box for crosses and chances

I agree w every word if we're just focusing on the midfield. But the implication is either that we play with one striker, or three at the back. And there are big questions about both options - essentially (for different reasons) are they attacking enough to score the goals we'll need to get promotion?

First problem with one upfront is if your striker dosen't score enough. That wasn't an issue last season with Kodjia hitting close to 20.

Bigger problem was hardly anyone scoring from midfield (give Hourihane and particularly Lansbury more licence) and the wide players not chipping in.

I certainly agree with people saying we need another wide player. Adomah, Grealish and Green dosen't strike to me consistant 9 month promotion winning performances.

Only real logic to us supposedly wanting El-Mohamady in that he would give width but then I don't see him as anywhere near good enough to improve us into a top 2 side, that would be a Matt Richie type who score score 10 and also provide that in assists.

[Richard]

Spot on Ozzjim if one pushes to support the two strikers and two wide men surely if we get hit on the break 4 defenders and the other midfielder is sufficient ? That's why the full backs for me are crucial as they can't get caught out of position too much. Bree for me instead of Hutton would help.

[Tayls_7]

Spot on Ozzjim if one pushes to support the two strikers and two wide men surely if we get hit on the break 4 defenders and the other midfielder is sufficient ? That's why the full backs for me are crucial as they can't get caught out of position too much. Bree for me instead of Hutton would help.

That's basically saying try someone other than Hutton because we've seen precious little of Bree so far.

[ozzjim]

Spot on Ozzjim if one pushes to support the two strikers and two wide men surely if we get hit on the break 4 defenders and the other midfielder is sufficient ? That's why the full backs for me are crucial as they can't get caught out of position too much. Bree for me instead of Hutton would help.

That's basically saying try someone other than Hutton because we've seen precious little of Bree so far.

I think that is going on the basis that no one can be worse than Hutton at marauding out of position and leaving a huge hole for the opposition to punish. Oh yes... Richards. I will take the Bree option too please. Or De Leat.

[Matt Collins]

Spot on Ozzjim if one pushes to support the two strikers and two wide men surely if we get hit on the break 4 defenders and the other midfielder is sufficient ? That's why the full backs for me are crucial as they can't get caught out of position too much. Bree for me instead of Hutton would help.

Can't think of many teams playing like this at the moment?

[peter w]

Thing is bree hasn't shown anything in the admittedly short exposure that he's had that he's any better than hutton. Hutton does try and get forward but just can't do it well enough.

[AV82EC]

Thing is bree hasn't shown anything in the admittedly short exposure that he's had that he's any better than hutton. Hutton does try and get forward but just can't do it well enough.

I'd disagree think he's shown a lot of composure that Hutton lacks. He's focused on defending with occasional forays to support forwards. He certainly isn't all action like Hutton and we look a much better balanced team for it.

[old man villa fan]

Thing is bree hasn't shown anything in the admittedly short exposure that he's had that he's any better than hutton. Hutton does try and get forward but just can't do it well enough.

As we seem to want to build many of our attacks down the right, we are wasting most of our opportunities because of Hutton's poor final ball or his runs down blind alleys.

[Matt Collins]

I don't know if it's that we want to, or that opponents would rather give Hutton space than Taylor or

Similarly, I remember when we played 352 v Ipswich and Nathan baker saw a lot of the ball. I'm sure that was deliberate on their part

[Proposition Joe]

Trying to put my finger on why we look so toothless. I think we are set up to mainly try and create chances via the wide areas, to the detriment of the centre.

Unfortunately, the player in the wide area responsible for creating something is usually the fullback, and teams therefore double up against us here so moves usually either go:

Defence -> midfield -> wide -> lose ball / move break down
Defence -> midfield -> wide -> midfield -> defence -> hoof / lose ball / move break down

I wish we carried more threat in the middle. How many chances do we create via through balls or one-twos? If teams feared our middle more, we'd also get more space out wide.

[Comrade Blitz]

Are we just going through the motions again.

Going through the motions in someone else's car
and I think we missed our turning back there

Is African Car Reverser driving?

[sirlordbaltimore]

Thing is bree hasn't shown anything in the admittedly short exposure that he's had that he's any better than hutton. Hutton does try and get forward but just can't do it well enough.

I don't think Bree needs to have shown he can do better than Hutton. The question is can he be possibly worse than Hutton ?

I doubt it.

Bree put in a lovely cross the other night for Flabby to score. That itself is more than i've seen Hutton do with the ball in the final third forever.