Blues match police crowd management

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I enjoy the atmosphere of derbys however hostile they become. And you're as safe as you allow yourself to be.

Walking a bit further rather than having a scar on my head like an innocent young niece has is a small price to pay.

[UK Redsox]

Point was simply that a certain level of intimidation can add to certain people's adrenalin, just like those who like jumping out of a plane, doesn't have to mean we are all hooligans.

I enjoy the atmosphere of derbys however hostile they become. And you're as safe as you allow yourself to be.

This is what I don't understand about some football fans.

Mr Shin can attest to the bemused look on my face when we've encountered posturing/minor aggression from away fans.

Not having grown up immersed in the culture of football, I still find it all a bit bizarre at times.

 

[Ads]

There hasn't been serious disorder between both sets of fans in this fixture during day time kick offs in my lifetime.

The Noses had a pop at The Vine in 2004 and they kicked off themselves with the WMP in 2007, but Garrison Lane, Rocky Lane, Aston Park in 2003 and Digbeth in 2010; all evening fixtures.

I won't call their attacking the Manor Tavern serious disorder given the 15/16 year old lad who works behind the bar appeared to have seen more frightening things down the toilet.

What are they preventing? There's an edge to the the game, there's a lot of hold me back types, but very few indeed willing to to act on their bravado. There wouldn't be serious disorder with more away fans and without these over the top measures.

[Ad@m]

Why shouldn't they be happy? Why does this have to be as difficult as possible for them? Why is it necessary to waste a whole load of criminal justice resources (not just in the police but right through the prosecution system) and club resources, on trouble that can be prevented.

If just a few times this match could go off in a way that left the authorities thinking all this fuss wasn't necessary, then maybe we'd get bigger allocations, and more relaxed policing, but unfortunately, this fixture hasn't accumulated that history yet.

In answer to your question - I have no idea whether they influenced the decision on allocations, but we are told that this was not a police decision. However - yes, they are pleased, as has been mentioned, smaller allocations mean that the tickets go to regular away fans, who generally know how to travel, or if they don't, will be well known.

It's useful to remember that all of this is happening in a country on high terror alert, on St Georges day. All of that has to be taken into account both in general terms, and actually also for this match, but carry on jumping up and down about them making it easy for themselves by all means.

in the current climate, I'd probably be more concerned about some Jihadi looper getting the keys to a truck and steaming down Aston Hall Rd, than the visit of 2,000 of the unwashed.

I suspect that risk is the explanation for the two massive trucks which have been parked across Witton Lane since the Westminster attack.  It obviously won't prevent an issue down Aston Hall Rd but they'd certainly stop the same happening on Witton Lane or Trinity Road.

[peter w]

Think is, as AV5 said, there are people that enjoy the atmosphere for the adrenalin rush such as someone who takes their thrills from extreme sports. I have no idea why someone would want to take part in or watch MMA (or whatever its called) stuff as to me its just rubbish and not in the slightest bit interesting. Just violent. Yet, there are plenty of people who will point out why I'm wrong. AV5 enjoys the adrenalin of the atmosphere but it doesn't make him a thug. Others enjoy the safety of posturing. Others the actual violence.

[Ad@m]

I like the edge in and around the ground when we play them home and away, it's one of the elements which makes our derby one of the most fierce in the country and one neutrals want to watch. Make it a bubble fixture and you'll lose a lot of that and it becomes about as intimidating as Fulham v Chelsea or Liverpool v Everton.

I'd guess that most people wouldn't see a football match being "intimidating" as a positive thing.

I think an intimidating atmosphere can in some respects make a game more interesting to the neutrals watching on the tv, and even those on the stadium whom are always going to be safe.

I think the fact our average attendance in the top flight at the peak of hooliganism (mid-80s) was little over 15,000 and now, in the division below, its more than double that would suggest not everyone shares your view.

[Ads]

The tension and needle is what makes the game exciting.

No walk to a ground is moodier than a trip to the Sty. Seeing all the bollock chain wearers skulking about, the buzz of Harold the helicopter, endless hi-vizier wearers milling about. The quietness of it all, or at least the perception that it should be louder, but anything more than a hushed conversation might spark the tinder.

The hatred you get coming your way inside the ground. The vitriol you pour back. The way you go berserk when you score. The extra kick in the nads when they do.

Derbies are great. There is safety and there is sanitisation. WMP have done a good job during day time kick offs of ensuring nothing really happens; organised or otherwise. There has been no justifiable reason for the measures undertaken and it's a strawman argument to suggest that because they work (well durh) we must continue with them.

We're at the thin end of the wedge.

[dave.woodhall]

There hasn't been serious disorder between both sets of fans in this fixture during day time kick offs in my lifetime.

The Noses had a pop at The Vine in 2004 and they kicked off themselves with the WMP in 2007, but Garrison Lane, Rocky Lane, Aston Park in 2003 and Digbeth in 2010; all evening fixtures.

I won't call their attacking the Manor Tavern serious disorder given the 15/16 year old lad who works behind the bar appeared to have seen more frightening things down the toilet.

What are they preventing? There's an edge to the the game, there's a lot of hold me back types, but very few indeed willing to to act on their bravado. There wouldn't be serious disorder with more away fans and without these over the top measures.

Someone without your extensive knowledge of football violence might regard what you call hold me back bravado as a frightening experience to be caught up in.

[Ad@m]

Think is, as AV5 said, there are people that enjoy the atmosphere for the adrenalin rush such as someone who takes their thrills from extreme sports. I have no idea why someone would want to take part in or watch MMA (or whatever its called) stuff as to me its just rubbish and not in the slightest bit interesting. Just violent. Yet, there are plenty of people who will point out why I'm wrong. AV5 enjoys the adrenalin of the atmosphere but it doesn't make him a thug. Others enjoy the safety of posturing. Others the actual violence.

The trouble is, as has already been pointed out, when morons start either start lashing out at anyone wearing the wrong colours, or start blindly chucking rocks/bottles/whatever into a group everyone else has lost the choice over whether they want to partake in this "extreme sport".

In a world where I'm sure WMP funds are as stretched as ever they're hardly going to go to great efforts if it's not necessary.  I'm sure they'd be quite happy to send no-one down to police the game.

[peter w]

You're right Ad@m the police would prefer that. But that contradicts your point surely? Fans make it impossible for them to not police the game because of the posturing and  spill over into disturbances. Therefore, they do have to police the game. And police it with as much force to prevent serious disorder but to try and keep inconvenience to a minimum. Its not their fault 'we' can't just allow that to happen.

[Ad@m]

You're right Ad@m the police would prefer that. But that contradicts your point surely? Fans make it impossible for them to not police the game because of the posturing and  spill over into disturbances. Therefore, they do have to police the game. And police it with as much force to prevent serious disorder but to try and keep inconvenience to a minimum. Its not their fault 'we' can't just allow that to happen.

Exactly.  My point is that people are complaining about the police tactics, and I'm saying they're only doing it because certain "fans" can't be trusted.

[Clampy]

The tension and needle is what makes the game exciting.

No walk to a ground is moodier than a trip to the Sty. Seeing all the bollock chain wearers skulking about, the buzz of Harold the helicopter, endless hi-vizier wearers milling about. The quietness of it all, or at least the perception that it should be louder, but anything more than a hushed conversation might spark the tinder.

The hatred you get coming your way inside the ground. The vitriol you pour back. The way you go berserk when you score. The extra kick in the nads when they do.

Derbies are great. There is safety and there is sanitisation. WMP have done a good job during day time kick offs of ensuring nothing really happens; organised or otherwise. There has been no justifiable reason for the measures undertaken and it's a strawman argument to suggest that because they work (well durh) we must continue with them.

We're at the thin end of the wedge.

At the end of the day, they're trying to make sure the whole day passes off as peacefully as possible. I'm not sure what part of that you're having trouble with.

[Hookeysmith]

My (selfish) issue is that we are to be on duty at 9.00am and we park in the staff car park at the old Osram site on Tame road. After the game it is a bit difficult to get to that side of the ground and to the car park from really any other route.

Hopefully by the time we are stood down the vast majority will be away

[wittonwarrior]

My (selfish) issue is that we are to be on duty at 9.00am and we park in the staff car park at the old Osram site on Tame road. After the game it is a bit difficult to get to that side of the ground and to the car park from really any other route.

Hopefully by the time we are stood down the vast majority will be away

My selfish issue is just to make sure we dub them 2 or 3 nil. A whole summer of them with chests puffed out is intolerable

[Tony Erdington]

Don't like games against sha at all, and yes I have been involved in unnecessary rubbish. I actually agree with the way the police , police this game keeps trouble to an absolute minimum.