The Butterfly Effect

[Ad@m]

LeeS - it annoys me as well, and have had many frustrating discussions over it, it's like banging your head against brick wall isn't it.
In Sunday's case had the goal been given the game would have restarted from a kick-off instead of on the edge of the six-yard box. Everything from that point on would have played out differently - not just at Wembley, but across the whole world. For instance, I might have carried on watching instead of going for a walk like I did when United went one up. On my walk I stopped and had a moan about the Villa with a Wolves fan I know, so his life has now also taken a different path to what it would have done too, etc etc.

As for Vidic being sent off, Milner might not have scored the penalty if Vidic had gone as it would have been taken at a different moment in time.

Could get pretty philosophical here.  All this assumes that there's such a thing as free will.  If not, a change in any one event could still result in this particular version of reality moving back to what happened.

[stuart r]

LeeS - it annoys me as well, and have had many frustrating discussions over it, it's like banging your head against brick wall isn't it.
In Sunday's case had the goal been given the game would have restarted from a kick-off instead of on the edge of the six-yard box. Everything from that point on would have played out differently - not just at Wembley, but across the whole world. For instance, I might have carried on watching instead of going for a walk like I did when United went one up. On my walk I stopped and had a moan about the Villa with a Wolves fan I know, so his life has now also taken a different path to what it would have done too, etc etc.

As for Vidic being sent off, Milner might not have scored the penalty if Vidic had gone as it would have been taken at a different moment in time.

Absolutely. In late 1981 Gary Shaw gave me his autograph in the Asda by Villa Leisure Centre. That chance meeting meant that I impacted in some way on the course of his life. As Villa went on the win the European Cup I can confidently state that I played a part that happening. I never received a medal or any recognition for my part in our victory and I certainly don't want you all thanking me now or commissioning statues and that. I'm a humble man who just happened to be in the right place at the right time and contributed to the greatest achievement in Aston Villa's history.

[Clark W Griswold]

I don't think your Southampton chum is much of a deep thinker, if he doesn't get it now he probably never will so you might as well be talking to him in Chinese whilst banging your head against the wall.

[Dave Cooper please]

The same as. - 'If we'd gone through we'd have drawn x team'

Forgive my geekiness but in the FA Cup, this can be true as the number that you are assigned in the draw relates to the order that the previous draw was made.

For example, if Villa are drawn out of the hat in the first tie of the 3rd round , ourselves or the opponents would be ball 1 in the 4th round draw

But the Butterfly Efect would mean that if Villa had gone through our ball would have been put in the freezer to make sure we got Man Utd again.

[LeeS]

The same as. - 'If we'd gone through we'd have drawn x team'

Forgive my geekiness but in the FA Cup, this can be true as the number that you are assigned in the draw relates to the order that the previous draw was made.

For example, if Villa are drawn out of the hat in the first tie of the 3rd round , ourselves or the opponents would be ball 1 in the 4th round draw

It can only be true in the same sense as me standing in the queue for a lottery ticket and cursing my luck that I was directly behind the bloke who won. The result is random and if replayed over and over again would produce varied results.

Rewind time, go back to the point that Villa lost the FA cup tie and then replay it all over again with Villa having won. Every random event replayed could have a different outcome, including the order that the balls are drawn.

[KevinGage]

If Dowd had sent off Vidic like he should have done, we would have won more silverware and not be in the position we are now

The only slight issue with that is we played a Manure side at VP a couple of weeks previously who were reduced to ten men for a large part of the game and didn't make the advantage count. If anything, they looked the better side.

Yes, a team with 11 players should beat one with 10.  But when the 10 are comfortable in possession, can work openings and generally look assured, it's not nailed on that they would lose to a team whose only real method of attack was get the ball to Ashley Young or hoof it to Heskey.

[Deano's Mullet]

Any of those Dean Saunders shots vs Spurs 1993 go in and I think we would have won the Premier League. Hit post twice and one blatant one cleared off line.

[itbrvilla]

Does this annoy anyone else?

A colleague of mine is a Saints fan and is, understandably, upset about Sunday's result and he keeps banging on about the offside goal. In his mind the score is 3-3 and Gabbiadini has been denied a hat-trick.

No matter how hard I try I cant explain to him about the butterfly effect. If the offside goal is not disallowed then the entire game from that moment on plays out differently. Maybe it leads to a different result maybe it doesn't. Maybe it leads to Gabbiadini scoring a hat-trick maybe it doesn't. But you can say with almost 100% certainty that nothing that followed that moment would happen exactly the same as it did. He disagrees and believes the same moves and the same chances and the same goals would have all followed.

It brought to mind all of those times a commentator says, "Villa should have had 3 or 4 goals already", or, "Gabby could have had a hat-trick tonight". I always end up tutting at the telly. Anyone else?

Ask him how the resulting kick off would of integrated into the play leading to the following 5 goals or how the effect of Doris on the ball?

[itbrvilla]

The same as. - 'If we'd gone through we'd have drawn x team'

Forgive my geekiness but in the FA Cup, this can be true as the number that you are assigned in the draw relates to the order that the previous draw was made.

For example, if Villa are drawn out of the hat in the first tie of the 3rd round , ourselves or the opponents would be ball 1 in the 4th round draw

Bit the order they are drawn would be different.

[postal]

yep, all of these are annoying.  How about "they are a great team on paper" is annoying too..... shame the games are played on grass.

[paul_e]

The same as. - 'If we'd gone through we'd have drawn x team'

Forgive my geekiness but in the FA Cup, this can be true as the number that you are assigned in the draw relates to the order that the previous draw was made.

For example, if Villa are drawn out of the hat in the first tie of the 3rd round , ourselves or the opponents would be ball 1 in the 4th round draw

Bit the order they are drawn would be different.

There's actually no way of knowing that.  The 2 events aren't deterministic, us being in the draw instead of Tottenham (for example) but having the same number wouldn't mean anything to the draw.  There's a reasonable belief that time/events work in a similar way to a stone on a pond and small changes create local/short term ripples before the surface settles back into the same pattern.  so there's no reason to assume that 1 event would change everything.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

If Pat McMahons goal at Leicester in April 1969 had been given we would not have been relegated to the 3rd division. Our climb back to the top would have taken two less years, resulting in us being League Champions in 1979 and European Cup Winners in 1980. We would still have won the League in '81 and Europe in '82 as well, probably a few other titles, Cups along the way with us firmly established as the dominant force when
F££tball started properly in 1992. For the last 25 years we have never been outside of the top four.   

[adrenachrome]

If Pat McMahons goal at Leicester in April 1969 had been given we would not have been relegated to the 3rd division. Our climb back to the top would have taken two less years, resulting in us being League Champions in 1979 and European Cup Winners in 1980. We would still have won the League in '81 and Europe in '82 as well, probably a few other titles, Cups along the way with us firmly established as the dominant force when
F££tball started properly in 1992. For the last 25 years we have never been outside of the top four.   

Nailed on, that.

[Bad English]

I am about to go for a stiff Donald Trump in the downstairs trap. Could the ensuing chain of events in any way cause Kodjia to pass the ball to someone for a Villa goal in the second half?

[adrenachrome]

I am about to go for a stiff Donald Trump in the downstairs trap. Could the ensuing chain of events in any way cause Kodjia to pass the ball to someone for a Villa goal in the second half?

More likely to generate a shit storm of shitterpillars and shit moths sending the shit barometer to a new low in a tremendous shit tsunami.