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Author Topic: Bruce Sacked at last (now official)  (Read 1332452 times)

Offline ChicagoLion

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  • Posts: 9830
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17535 on: August 20, 2018, 05:25:43 PM »
The sticking plaster thing is utter bullshit and should be met with contempt.  He can revise things as much as he wants but he signed a former England captain after chasing him for weeks, he signed a guy who's played for him at 2 previous clubs, he signed a winger who would've been the envy of almost everyone in the division and he signed a central midfielder that he didn't really need but he wanted for some extra experience. He then added to that by grabbing a guy who was a good shout to be the league's top scorer for the 2nd half of the season.  In terms of young players he got his first choice goalie, a player he's picked up again for this year and a midfielder who he gave plenty of game time to, ahead of the clubs own youth players and who I expect he'd have wanted back if Grealish had gone there.

As always, nothing is his fault, there's always an excuse but he's learned to make them sound plausible enough that people lap it up.


This. Every single word of it
Absolutely.

Offline frank black

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17536 on: August 20, 2018, 05:33:28 PM »
The sticking plaster thing is utter bullshit and should be met with contempt.  He can revise things as much as he wants but he signed a former England captain after chasing him for weeks, he signed a guy who's played for him at 2 previous clubs, he signed a winger who would've been the envy of almost everyone in the division and he signed a central midfielder that he didn't really need but he wanted for some extra experience. He then added to that by grabbing a guy who was a good shout to be the league's top scorer for the 2nd half of the season.  In terms of young players he got his first choice goalie, a player he's picked up again for this year and a midfielder who he gave plenty of game time to, ahead of the clubs own youth players and who I expect he'd have wanted back if Grealish had gone there.

As always, nothing is his fault, there's always an excuse but he's learned to make them sound plausible enough that people lap it up.


This. Every single word of it
Absolutely.

True, true

Offline Ads

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  • GM : 02.04.2021
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17537 on: August 20, 2018, 05:37:46 PM »
I think you're looking at it in a narrow way. I wouldn't argue that we didn't have some very good players on loan or that we are not left with some very good players in the squad.

Finacial issues as they obviously became apparent last season saw us sign two permanent and for relatively small fees, to allow us to get the quality in and spend the wages necessary. We went very close with that, but I'm sure the preference would have been there to sign Johnstone, Snoddy and Grabban for example permanently. Financially we couldn't do that, so you're constantly having to reinvent key positions with the squad.

We're lacking I feel in the Snoddy and Grabban departments at present which is why I don't think we're as effective now as we will be once the business is completed.

Offline Russ aka Big Nose

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17538 on: August 20, 2018, 05:47:17 PM »
As has been said, the absence of a pattern of play is very telling.

It means results are more unpredictable, i.e. you are less likely to counter an organised opposition and you become reliant on 'that bit of quality' or 'the rub of the green' for results - both classic post-match excuses for floundering managers.

Another issue with this is what it does to the players - intelligent players don't want the frustration of toiling away trying to do things as individuals as they did against 10-man Ipswich and less intelligent players also respond better to having a role clearly defined for them and that recognises their limitations.

If you have a plan allied with a clear intent drilled into the players and decent quality - which we do at this level - then you can bring people in and still play the same way and with the same intent.

You can be more certain of the outcome because, by and large, the only thing preventing quality from prevailing is players having an off day. We have that plus the absence of a way of playing.

I would love us to play exciting, attacking football, but right now (and for more than two years) I would settle for understanding what my team is trying to do. How are they set up to win the ball and how do they look to create chances. I would even settle for a different plan home and away.

The best I can determine with Bruce is we play we no pattern but hope to stay in the game for at least 70 minutes and go from there. Not good enough in this era or any other.

We have seen sides with an understanding of what they are doing and with more limited resources get out of this division.

For me, talk of a crisis narrowly averted is a smokescreen - he can still have a way of playing and players clear on what is expected of them - even if half the team is from the u23s - in fact, they probably have a playing philosophy.

And as posted the other day - when we have options in every position to play three of the back four out of position (in front of a new keeper) is shocking.

Either he is actually clueless or he is trying to make a point to the new owners - and a point that is not merited. Whichever it is, it is not good enough. UTV
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 05:50:08 PM by Russ aka Big Nose »

Offline ChicagoLion

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  • Posts: 9830
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17539 on: August 20, 2018, 08:02:01 PM »
Yes Russ, agree with all of that.
I am trying to work out if he is thick, stubborn, stupid or conniving.
It’s hard to work out, maybe a bit of everything.

Offline brian green

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17540 on: August 20, 2018, 08:17:36 PM »
His fiction writing is pants too.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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  • GM : 29.07.2019
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17541 on: August 20, 2018, 08:38:45 PM »
We're lacking I feel in the Snoddy and Grabban departments at present which is why I don't think we're as effective now as we will be once the business is completed.

Problem is, even with Snoddy and Grabban we failed to go up, mainly because (IMO) Bruce consistently adopts a 'not lose' approach rather than trying to out play teams.  That approach means you're reliant on bits of brilliance, so you always need "one more" player if you're not winning.

Offline Ad@m

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17542 on: August 20, 2018, 09:18:19 PM »
We're lacking I feel in the Snoddy and Grabban departments at present which is why I don't think we're as effective now as we will be once the business is completed.

Problem is, even with Snoddy and Grabban we failed to go up, mainly because (IMO) Bruce consistently adopts a 'not lose' approach rather than trying to out play teams.  That approach means you're reliant on bits of brilliance, so you always need "one more" player if you're not winning.

This.

Here we are, two years on from when Bruce joined, arguably with a better squad but playing worse.  I'll give Bruce credit for shoring the defence up as that was letting us down week in, week out when we first came down but we're no more likely to go up because he consistently refuses to use the strength of the squad he has to go and steam roller the majority of the league.

So it's two years wasted and unless he goes soon it'll be another year wasted.  As Leeds/Forest/Wednesday fans have found out - keep wasting years and it's really easy to get stuck down here.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 10:49:55 PM by Ad@m »

Offline Rudy65

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  • Posts: 3593
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17543 on: August 20, 2018, 09:31:08 PM »
The only reason I keep mentioning Rodgers is because he keeps saying very positive things about us. But then so does Simon Jordan.

What has Rodgers said about us?

Offline brontebilly

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  • Posts: 4821
  • GM : 28.06.2019
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17544 on: August 20, 2018, 10:38:00 PM »
What worried me most in his post-match comments from the weekend was his criticism of the players "not moving the ball quickly enough".  Whilst I completely agree with him, this suggests more a lack of work on the training-ground than it does players just not being capable of doing it. it's also a criticism that could be thrown at all Villa performances since he's been in charge.

It's a bit of a cliched comment I find "Not moving the ball quick enough". Tends to be thrown out there by the standard British type manager. The real question he should be answering why didn't we? For starters there were significant selection errors e.g. Playing Jedinak centre half, Tuanzebe right back and Elmo right midfield.

But we have a fundamental problem in that we lack a genuine playmaker in the traditional number six role. Jedinak and Whelan have qualities but they are stoppers. Bjarnasson is a more mobile version of these two.  Hourihane is box to box and far more interested in loose play than taking the ball off the back or setting a tempo. Lansbury hasn't the mobility or drive and seems to be miles down the pecking order. Bruce signed four of these.

Offline TheTimVilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17545 on: August 21, 2018, 07:12:19 AM »
We may as well play 2 holding midfielders. Hopefully that will alleviate some of the defensive duties of our attackers. Playing a 4-1-4-1 and having the front 5 defending is ineffective. Maybe a 4-2-3-1 would be more robust and moves the attacking midfielders ten yards up the pitch.

Offline Matt Collins

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17546 on: August 21, 2018, 07:22:18 AM »
Yeah I also wonder if the 4141 has stopped working as well

But I think the main problem is weve gone from having a massive winger threat to having almost none, plus the lack of a hold up man

If we play 4231 with grealish as 10 I really think we'd lack goal threat

Offline TheTimVilla

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17547 on: August 21, 2018, 07:24:15 AM »
A 3 of Jack, Jinky and AN Other would work nicely

Offline sickbeggar

  • Member
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17548 on: August 21, 2018, 09:21:25 AM »
My view now is that Bruce has reverted to a system that involves getting the ball to Kodjia and little else, with Mcginn & co supplying the ammo. I think he would have done that last season if he'd been fit.  Downside to that is as we saw when he did it last time, is you don't exactly get many goals from other outlets and if he gets crocked again.........

Offline frankmosswasmyuncle

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Re: Bruce out?
« Reply #17549 on: August 21, 2018, 09:59:40 AM »
The sticking plaster thing is utter bullshit and should be met with contempt.  He can revise things as much as he wants but he signed a former England captain after chasing him for weeks, he signed a guy who's played for him at 2 previous clubs, he signed a winger who would've been the envy of almost everyone in the division and he signed a central midfielder that he didn't really need but he wanted for some extra experience. He then added to that by grabbing a guy who was a good shout to be the league's top scorer for the 2nd half of the season.  In terms of young players he got his first choice goalie, a player he's picked up again for this year and a midfielder who he gave plenty of game time to, ahead of the clubs own youth players and who I expect he'd have wanted back if Grealish had gone there.

As always, nothing is his fault, there's always an excuse but he's learned to make them sound plausible enough that people lap it up.


This. Every single word of it
Absolutely.

True, true
Fourthed!