Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[Chris Harte]

A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

But the alternative offered was Thierry Henry. If it had been, say, Dean Smith or Chris Houghton then it would have made the decision less clear.

Let someone else take the punt on Henry. We don't need to visit the casino again.

[dave.woodhall]

The last one though is completely true and nothing to do with Henry, Bruce did fail twice.

The first time he had 35 games to do it, not 46. Probably more mitigation than the thing Risso doesn't want to hear about again.

True, and I'll accept automatic promotion had gone but the playoffs should've been possible.  We were 10 points short when he arrived and he'd cut that to 4 within 2 months but then 5 wins from 16 over the next 3 months killed the chance. RDM got sacked for a record like that and yet Bruce was excused for it and we're still expected to believe that RDM was why we failed that season.  The truth is both of them were shit which is why we didn't even make the top half.

If we'd sacked Bruce we'd have been on our third manager of the season. Perhaps that's what saved him. Who knows?

Incidently, this is the most civil discussion I've had on the Henry/Bruce thing with someone on the opposite side of the fence , so thanks for that.

I agree completely, but that's my point, he could easily have been sacked for that run, he could easily have been sacked for the run at the end of the first season and start of his 2nd which saw him get about 10 points from 12 games (and give Cardiff a huge headstart) and he could easily have been sacked for failing in the play offs.  A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

I can think of three possible sacking dates for Sir Graham, a couple for Brian Little and John Gregory, and at least one for Ron Saunders.

[Drummond]

The last one though is completely true and nothing to do with Henry, Bruce did fail twice.

The first time he had 35 games to do it, not 46. Probably more mitigation than the thing Risso doesn't want to hear about again.

True, and I'll accept automatic promotion had gone but the playoffs should've been possible.  We were 10 points short when he arrived and he'd cut that to 4 within 2 months but then 5 wins from 16 over the next 3 months killed the chance. RDM got sacked for a record like that and yet Bruce was excused for it and we're still expected to believe that RDM was why we failed that season.  The truth is both of them were shit which is why we didn't even make the top half.

If we'd sacked Bruce we'd have been on our third manager of the season. Perhaps that's what saved him. Who knows?

Incidently, this is the most civil discussion I've had on the Henry/Bruce thing with someone on the opposite side of the fence , so thanks for that.

I agree completely, but that's my point, he could easily have been sacked for that run, he could easily have been sacked for the run at the end of the first season and start of his 2nd which saw him get about 10 points from 12 games (and give Cardiff a huge headstart) and he could easily have been sacked for failing in the play offs.  A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

I can think of three possible sacking dates for Sir Graham, a couple for Brian Little and John Gregory, and at least one for Ron Saunders.

The very best managers in history across all jobs and teams have had times when they could have been sacked. Who knows in reality how things will turn out?

Sometimes, and in the examples you gave, the decision not to dismiss is proven to be right, others, such as Lambert (who let's face it probably had more dates than any other manager) were perhaps proven to be wrong.

[paul_e]

The very best managers in history across all jobs and teams have had times when they could have been sacked. Who knows in reality how things will turn out?

Sometimes, and in the examples you gave, the decision not to dismiss is proven to be right, others, such as Lambert (who let's face it probably had more dates than any other manager) were perhaps proven to be wrong.

Exactly, we won't know if keeping Bruce was the right decision until we have some evidence and we'll never know if Henry would've been inspired or pathetic so dismissing people with the opposite opinion as moronic because you don't like the reasons they've given is a ridiculous stance to take, which was the only point I was trying to make.

In hindsight we should've sacked MON when he started making eyes at Liverpool and in hindsight we should've given Sherwood a temporary contract until the summer and then hired a proper manager but neither of those would've been popular actions given MON had got us to a cup final finished 6th for the 3rd year running and Sherwood had steered us clear of a relegation battle and got us to a cup final. If the alternative to MON had been Pochettino I suspect we'd have seen similar arguments that we were sacking an experienced manager and replacing him with someone with no real track record (he'd had about 20 games at Espanyol at the time).

[Allan C]

The last one though is completely true and nothing to do with Henry, Bruce did fail twice.

The first time he had 35 games to do it, not 46. Probably more mitigation than the thing Risso doesn't want to hear about again.

True, and I'll accept automatic promotion had gone but the playoffs should've been possible.  We were 10 points short when he arrived and he'd cut that to 4 within 2 months but then 5 wins from 16 over the next 3 months killed the chance. RDM got sacked for a record like that and yet Bruce was excused for it and we're still expected to believe that RDM was why we failed that season.  The truth is both of them were shit which is why we didn't even make the top half.

If we'd sacked Bruce we'd have been on our third manager of the season. Perhaps that's what saved him. Who knows?

Incidently, this is the most civil discussion I've had on the Henry/Bruce thing with someone on the opposite side of the fence , so thanks for that.

I agree completely, but that's my point, he could easily have been sacked for that run, he could easily have been sacked for the run at the end of the first season and start of his 2nd which saw him get about 10 points from 12 games (and give Cardiff a huge headstart) and he could easily have been sacked for failing in the play offs.  A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

I can think of three possible sacking dates for Sir Graham, a couple for Brian Little and John Gregory, and at least one for Ron Saunders.

The very best managers in history across all jobs and teams have had times when they could have been sacked. Who knows in reality how things will turn out?

Sometimes, and in the examples you gave, the decision not to dismiss is proven to be right, others, such as Lambert (who let's face it probably had more dates than any other manager) were perhaps proven to be wrong.

The big difference with the managers you mention is that we all knew that that their dip temporary and we were prepared to give them more time. With Bruce what we get is this as he has proven at his other clubs

[Drummond]

And what Bruce has also proven at other clubs is that he can get them promoted. He's done it more than any other manager.

[Clampy]

And what Bruce has also proven at other clubs is that he can get them promoted. He's done it more than any other manager.

Hasn't Warnock overtaken him now?

I don't agree that he should have ben sacked after the first season. He could have had no complaints if he'd been replaced at the end of this season though.

[Drummond]

I thought he had the most promotions, but is tied with Bruce re the Premier League.

[footyskillz]

A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

But the alternative offered was Thierry Henry. If it had been, say, Dean Smith or Chris Houghton then it would have made the decision less clear.

Let someone else take the punt on Henry. We don't need to visit the casino again.

I touted lampard as he's an understanding wise modern football coach .

Would have liked him on board after play off finals and think he will be a great uk manager.

Fair play to derby I like to think Villa would make such a move for him say we we're promoted 2018 /19 season , but Bruce is failing in season 2018/20 and derby lost in those 2018/19 play offs after a great season under lampard then reasonable to suggest him as an option.

[Clampy]

A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

But the alternative offered was Thierry Henry. If it had been, say, Dean Smith or Chris Houghton then it would have made the decision less clear.

Let someone else take the punt on Henry. We don't need to visit the casino again.

I touted lampard as he's an understanding wise modern football coach .

He hasn't actually coached anyone yet though has he? (correct me if I'm wrong)

[footyskillz]

And what Bruce has also proven at other clubs is that he can get them promoted. He's done it more than any other manager.

Hasn't Warnock overtaken him now?

I don't agree that he should have ben sacked after the first season. He could have had no complaints if he'd been replaced at the end of this season though.

I think from the championship level Bruce is leader .

However I think this is one great hope bruce very good for championship and gas every chance this season but moving forward when in prem would need a new direction

[Risso]

A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

But the alternative offered was Thierry Henry. If it had been, say, Dean Smith or Chris Houghton then it would have made the decision less clear.

Let someone else take the punt on Henry. We don't need to visit the casino again.

I touted lampard as he's an understanding wise modern football coach .

Would have liked him on board after play off finals and think he will be a great uk manager.

Fair play to derby I like to think Villa would make such a move for him say we we're promoted 2018 /19 season , but Bruce is failing in season 2018/20 and derby lost in those 2018/19 play offs after a great season under lampard then reasonable to suggest him as an option.

Bizarre.  You spent most of the last week railing against Henry, but then suggest Lampard, who has even less practical experience than Henry.

What on earth are you basing the "wise modern football coach" on.  At least Henry has his Pro Licence, something Lampard hasn't.

[john e]

I thought he had the most promotions, but is tied with Bruce re the Premier League.

I think Warnock had 9 promotions to his name

I still wouldn't want him at Villa for the same reason I never wanted Bruce
they don't build anything that lasts, they put together teams with no lasting stability that are mostly painful to watch

[footyskillz]

A manager who deserves longer doesn't have a list of possible sacking dates like that so I don't think it's fair to call people moronic if they wanted a change in manager because they expect him to fail again.

But the alternative offered was Thierry Henry. If it had been, say, Dean Smith or Chris Houghton then it would have made the decision less clear.

Let someone else take the punt on Henry. We don't need to visit the casino again.

I touted lampard as he's an understanding wise modern football coach .

He hasn't actually coached anyone yet though has he? (correct me if I'm wrong)

This is first time as a manager yes he took over Derby this summer .

As a player and pundit he's very good . Plus he has experience of being coached well by great managers in the game.
Will wait on that one then when I think more about it . 

But I do like the look of derby to be there or thereabouts.

Many  people think Iampard will be promoted as a better chance than Bruce

The bookies say this to win league

Stoke
9/2
Middlesbrough
8/1
West Brom
8/1
Nottingham Forest
9/1
Leeds
11/1
Swansea
11/1
Aston Villa
12/1
Brentford
14/1
Derby
14/1


But promotion Derby are more strongly fancied.!

Stoke
13/8
Middlesbrough
11/4
West Brom
11/4
Nottingham Forest
10/3
Leeds
7/2
Swansea
7/2
Derby
4/1
Aston Villa
9/2

[footyskillz]

I thought he had the most promotions, but is tied with Bruce re the Premier League.

I think Warnock had 9 promotions to his name

I still wouldn't want him at Villa for the same reason I never wanted Bruce
they don't build anything that lasts, they put together teams with no lasting stability that are mostly painful to watch

They have four promotions to the top flight so are equal in that respect