Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[ktvillan]

The thing that entertains me most is winning. There was a long drawn out debate about Allardyce and Everton last season. It will be interesting to see if firstly they are the great entertainers of the Premier League next season and secondly if they finish higher than the eighth spot they managed last season.

Yes, that situation was quite idiotic really, my bet is that they'll play slightly better football and finish 14th.

You talk as if there is some kind of mutual exclusivity between winning and playing good football.  There isn't, as Wolves and Fulham showed in our league.  On the all too rare occasions we decided to try it, it worked for us too.  Neither does graft and grind hoofball guarantee more wins, even if it did work for Cardiff.

[Ads]

People are entitled to their opinions. That we came 4th, won 23 games and scored more goals than just about everybody else I think supports my view that it was an entertaining season.

Cardiff are a pretty awful side to watch and I certainly feel we played much better football than them, but I doubt there's too many Cardiff fan's who were not thoroughly entertained.

[old man villa fan]

You usually measure success by playing close to or to the best of your ability consistently.

[Ads]

I measure it by winning myself.

[Clark W Griswold]

The thing that entertains me most is winning. There was a long drawn out debate about Allardyce and Everton last season. It will be interesting to see if firstly they are the great entertainers of the Premier League next season and secondly if they finish higher than the eighth spot they managed last season.

Yes, that situation was quite idiotic really, my bet is that they'll play slightly better football and finish 14th.

You talk as if there is some kind of mutual exclusivity between winning and playing good football.  There isn't, as Wolves and Fulham showed in our league.  On the all too rare occasions we decided to try it, it worked for us too.  Neither does graft and grind hoofball guarantee more wins, even if it did work for Cardiff.

I don't talk about anything of the sort, I just think that would be the typical thing to happen particularly in their situation. They're a bit like us really, and their couple of good seasons were an exception to the rule. The top 6 is becoming more predictable year on year, I doubt they'll finish certainly any higher than 7th the way the premier league is at this moment in time. More likely I think they'll finish lower next season. I actually agree with you, success can come from playing the right way or from hoofing it, as long as you have a plan, a settled team with the right personnel.

[ktvillan]

People are entitled to their opinions. That we came 4th, won 23 games and scored more goals than just about everybody else I think supports my view that it was an entertaining season.

Cardiff are a pretty awful side to watch and I certainly feel we played much better football than them, but I doubt there's too many Cardiff fan's who were not thoroughly entertained.

Yet when I express my opinion it's dismissed as "gross exaggeration".   I guess you base entertainment value on outcome rather than process.  Fair enough, your choice.  I prefer to see some good football as well, and I think we saw far too little from that squad under Bruce.

[sirlordbaltimore]

The thing that entertains me most is winning. There was a long drawn out debate about Allardyce and Everton last season. It will be interesting to see if firstly they are the great entertainers of the Premier League next season and secondly if they finish higher than the eighth spot they managed last season.

Yes, that situation was quite idiotic really, my bet is that they'll play slightly better football and finish 14th.

You talk as if there is some kind of mutual exclusivity between winning and playing good football.  There isn't, as Wolves and Fulham showed in our league.  On the all too rare occasions we decided to try it, it worked for us too.  Neither does graft and grind hoofball guarantee more wins, even if it did work for Cardiff.

So what you're actually saying is there's more than one way to play football, and that grind/graft is just as likely to get you up as tiki-taka.

Three teams went up last season all playing different styles of football.

Noted.

[paul_e]

I don't talk about anything of the sort, I just think that would be the typical thing to happen particularly in their situation. They're a bit like us really, and their couple of good seasons were an exception to the rule. The top 6 is becoming more predictable year on year, I doubt they'll finish certainly any higher than 7th the way the premier league is at this moment in time. More likely I think they'll finish lower next season. I actually agree with you, success can come from playing the right way or from hoofing it, as long as you have a plan, a settled team with the right personnel.

The bold bit is key, last season we played as if we had a target man who could hold up the ball because that's how Bruce plays, but we were wanting Hogan to do the job.

Aside from that we're losing so many players who were regulars last season that we don't have a settled team anyway so we should do now what we should've done 2 years ago and decide where we want to be (in terms of the make-up of the squad) in 2-3 years and start working towards it.

[tomd2103]

I don't talk about anything of the sort, I just think that would be the typical thing to happen particularly in their situation. They're a bit like us really, and their couple of good seasons were an exception to the rule. The top 6 is becoming more predictable year on year, I doubt they'll finish certainly any higher than 7th the way the premier league is at this moment in time. More likely I think they'll finish lower next season. I actually agree with you, success can come from playing the right way or from hoofing it, as long as you have a plan, a settled team with the right personnel.

The bold bit is key, last season we played as if we had a target man who could hold up the ball because that's how Bruce plays, but we were wanting Hogan to do the job.

Aside from that we're losing so many players who were regulars last season that we don't have a settled team anyway so we should do now what we should've done 2 years ago and decide where we want to be (in terms of the make-up of the squad) in 2-3 years and start working towards it.

Agree Paul and that's why I would say playing effective football is the real key.  Hoofing the ball anywhere is of course terrible to watch, but early balls up to a front man who can hold the ball up and bring players into play can be effective and good to watch if it is done well.  Like you say though, aimless balls in the vague direction of a small striker who can't hold the ball up is never going to be good to watch.   

[Ads]

As it's my opinion that calling us dire, like root canal work, waiting for root canal work or being a quadriplegic is a gross exaggeration.

Football for me is about winning.

[ChicagoLion]

A significant problem has been the lack of pace.
It causes the back line to drop deeper, the opposition defense can step up if they are not concerned with players getting in behind. It also means that counter attacking is less effective and because the opposition can “ push on “ there is less space to play out from the back which often causes the pass back and hoof.

[Ads]

I wouldn't disagree about pace. Green and RHM playing more ought to aid that.

[john e]

If SB can shoot us 80 + points and 70 + goals with likes of Green, O'Hare and Hepburn-Murphy as regular starters I'd be astounded.

so would everyone i'd assume. our remit this season wont be promotion, it'll be purely not letting the club go to the wall

as long as everyone approaches it as such knowing what a state we're in some enjoyment can be had along the way

with a manager who can at least build something sustainable I think we could give it a good go next season for promotion

we will still have one of largest wage bills in that division no matter what
if the target is to avoid relegation any old numpty could do that even Bruce

[mr underhill]

looks like Forest are going all Wolves like - record bid in for a guy from Portugal with others to follow. Apparently Karanka is looking to sign up to eight players for a promotion push. Sound familiar?

[robleflaneur]

A significant problem has been the lack of pace.
It causes the back line to drop deeper, the opposition defense can step up if they are not concerned with players getting in behind. It also means that counter attacking is less effective and because the opposition can “ push on “ there is less space to play out from the back which often causes the pass back and hoof.

The lack of pace in more advanced positions is more noticeable when the ball is launched aimlessly forward.
It's not the space to play out that is the problem,it's the lack of movement from players willing to receive the ball.The big exception is Grealish who is adept at finding space and shielding the ball.Better coaching could alleviate the problem but it won't while Bruce is there.
As others have pointed out,if the 'Villa Engine ' pass and move,is our ideal method for progress,why don't the first team use it ? Is it because we are shackled by Bruce's mantra of 'It's the Championship' and the best way to win is through determination and experience,vital qualities but skill and tactics count for a lot.
I do fear for our development of young players if Bruce stays here.Who will be leaving in 12 months time for better opportunities ?