Bruce Sacked at last (now official)

[PeterWithesShin]

He also had a lot of players that had played for Lambert the season before. So a bit of a miracle.

[amfy]

I am coming to the conclusion that it may be best to keep him. Alternative is get a new man / back room staff, who it is, we can’t really say as there is no-one jumping out as an obvious choice. Then another start to the season of bedding new approach and maybe new players, which could see us fall behind.
In the Ch-ship it’s normally over a season before a manager kicks on.
Also, I don’t think next season will be as tough looking at the teams around us and teams coming down, it looks like Derby are going to appoint Frank Lampard FFS. Only Pulis I can see as doing something.

Nuno didn't exactly struggle coming into the Dogheads and immediately applying a new style

He was in a positiin to bring some stylish players in. Our manager won't be.

I actually think Bruce works better without money. His best outcomes seem to have been when he has had to make the best of what he's got, & its seemed to fall apart when hes been handed some cash to get some 'quality' in, when, like O'Neill, he only seems to know it if everyone has seen it for yeara already.

His promotion record isn't with money.

I know that he's known for a while who he will have to lose if we failed, & will have options in mind.. He knows and is liked by the players. He knows our younger players too. He not only knows who is good on the pitch, he knows who has the temperament for the battle ahead and who can 'rally the troops' at team level.

So, there are advantages to him staying. I won't be heartbroken if we try someone else, but its swings and roundabouts.

[dave.woodhall]

I am coming to the conclusion that it may be best to keep him. Alternative is get a new man / back room staff, who it is, we can’t really say as there is no-one jumping out as an obvious choice. Then another start to the season of bedding new approach and maybe new players, which could see us fall behind.
In the Ch-ship it’s normally over a season before a manager kicks on.
Also, I don’t think next season will be as tough looking at the teams around us and teams coming down, it looks like Derby are going to appoint Frank Lampard FFS. Only Pulis I can see as doing something.

Nuno didn't exactly struggle coming into the Dogheads and immediately applying a new style

Not saying he should stay or go, but there's a lot of "It worked for Wolves" being said now and yes, it did. But before they got it right a lot of things didn't work for Wolves. There's a lot more Solbakkens out there than there are Nunos. 

[OzVilla]

I wouldnt be disappointed if he stays and I wouldnt if he went.  I think alot depends on our real financial situation and the clubs plan for next season (which in fairness none of us really knows).

We talk about where we finished being a fair reflection and it was, but that also makes us the best of the rest.  Admittedly we'll lose those good loan players as well as Appleyard but IF we can keep Grealish, Kodja and Chester whilst bringing in some our our youth then we really won't be in bad shape at all.

[purpletrousers]

He said he was 'baffled' by how the first half at Wembley turned out. You are the manager at a vital game and you are 'baffled'?

I took that comment as a bit of arse-covering, effectively blaming the players rather than his tactics.

I even transcribed that comment post match (only just deleted in the notes of my phone last night). It's one thing to say, "my tactics didn't work", but to be 'baffled' why your team doesn't 'turn up' is more worrying, it smacks of self-delusion to protect a fragile ego, which is understandable in the raw loss/staring into the headlights.

Herein lies the issue we are never going tiger away from, caution.

My best hope if he does stay is Terry appointed #2/emergency centre and kicking his ass into playing more attacking football but neither will happen.

I only know Dean Smith from seeing Brentford run rings around Villa, but have come roundcto the idea. I think he's a lovely guy but we need-de Bruceing at some point. Why not get the Bruce-ectomy done and properly develop.

[Nelly]

I thought bringing in Bruce was the "get us up this season at all costs" option? He and we have failed in that objective, I think this is the perfect time to properly rebuild Villa, introduce and keep a footballing ethos and identity and move forwards for once. No more scraping it. Build something lasting with a manager who gets that.

[purpletrousers]

Not saying he should stay or go, but there's a lot of "It worked for Wolves" being said now and yes, it did. But before they got it right a lot of things didn't work for Wolves. There's a lot more Solbakkens out there than there are Nunos. 

Indeed. And you aren't not saying:

Key point is they learned from those mistakes. Went on to make other mistakes. Learned from them.
We seem to keep making the same half mistake. Part of me starting to feel relieved we won't humiliate ourselves by boring the top flight again.

I'd hate to be a manager, it's so tough, but his caution Vs risk balance just isn't right.

[dave.woodhall]

Not saying he should stay or go, but there's a lot of "It worked for Wolves" being said now and yes, it did. But before they got it right a lot of things didn't work for Wolves. There's a lot more Solbakkens out there than there are Nunos. 

Indeed. And you aren't not saying:

Key point is they learned from those mistakes. Went on to make other mistakes. Learned from them.
We seem to keep making the same half mistake. Part of me starting to feel relieved we won't humiliate ourselves by boring the top flight again.

I'd hate to be a manager, it's so tough, but his caution Vs risk balance just isn't right.

It's hardly a work of great profundity to say that the root cause of our problem has been that we go from one extreme to the other in rapid succession. Traditional British manager to respected foreign coach to traditional to Next Big Thing to short-term gobshite to young foreigner to... Each with his own style, each with his own philosophy. And we never learn from any of them.

[DB]

I am coming to the conclusion that it may be best to keep him. Alternative is get a new man / back room staff, who it is, we can’t really say as there is no-one jumping out as an obvious choice. Then another start to the season of bedding new approach and maybe new players, which could see us fall behind.
In the Ch-ship it’s normally over a season before a manager kicks on.
Also, I don’t think next season will be as tough looking at the teams around us and teams coming down, it looks like Derby are going to appoint Frank Lampard FFS. Only Pulis I can see as doing something.

Nuno didn't exactly struggle coming into the Dogheads and immediately applying a new style

Not saying he should stay or go, but there's a lot of "It worked for Wolves" being said now and yes, it did. But before they got it right a lot of things didn't work for Wolves. There's a lot more Solbakkens out there than there are Nunos. 

Yes agreed. As said just my current view. It’s a long summer ahead and a lot can happen.

[Monty]

I'm more interested in the sustainable-but-good-football models, going all the way back to Swansea and Southampton (and boy they fell off the rails once they abandoned their models), than I am in Wolves' unrepeatable situation.

[chrisw1]

I am coming to the conclusion that it may be best to keep him. Alternative is get a new man / back room staff, who it is, we can’t really say as there is no-one jumping out as an obvious choice. Then another start to the season of bedding new approach and maybe new players, which could see us fall behind.
In the Ch-ship it’s normally over a season before a manager kicks on.
Also, I don’t think next season will be as tough looking at the teams around us and teams coming down, it looks like Derby are going to appoint Frank Lampard FFS. Only Pulis I can see as doing something.

Nuno didn't exactly struggle coming into the Dogheads and immediately applying a new style

Not saying he should stay or go, but there's a lot of "It worked for Wolves" being said now and yes, it did. But before they got it right a lot of things didn't work for Wolves. There's a lot more Solbakkens out there than there are Nunos. 

This has always been my argument.

But if we can't gamble on the next great young foreign coach we do have the safer option of Dean Smith.

[VinnieChase84]

It may not work ( a la wolves) but it also could. Not risking trying a new route just means like our current style we’re beihg cautious before ambitious/attacking.
We know what we are going to get with Bruce, it’s never going to change. Granted the stability and him repairing the dressing room has been huge but we’re never going to play on the front foot. Ultimately the cautious approach cost us promotion if I’m being harsh.

If the funding/cash available was the same for this season then I would be more inclined to give Bruce another season. Seeing how we’re are going to have to build and embatk on a more sustainable model we may as well start with a coach who will play a certain way and manage youngsters!?
If Bruce had Sessegnon he would probably have kept him in the under 23’s

[SoccerHQ]

Usually the way you train is the way you play.

Any Pulis team obviously spends loads of time working on defensive shape in training. Roy Hodgson is another manager known for spending loads of time working on defensive set up.

There is no way during the week at Bodymoor/Recon we are spending an hour or two on the pitch playing glorious one/two touch training drills otherwise you'd see more evidence on this on a Saturday.

We just played our usual no frills restrictive game and Fulham exposed it.

I reckon SB told them in the dressing room pre match to sit back and stay compact for first 10-15 minutes. The problem with that approach is it can then get very easy to stay in that mindset for whole of the first half as it's not easy to snap out of.

It also allowed Fulham to get into their stride early on. They'd have rather us sitting off allowing them to get their passing going rather than us attempting to press their middle from the first minute.

If Steve Bruce was capable of technical coaching we'd have likely gone up in second.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I thought bringing in Bruce was the "get us up this season at all costs" option? He and we have failed in that objective, I think this is the perfect time to properly rebuild Villa, introduce and keep a footballing ethos and identity and move forwards for once. No more scraping it. Build something lasting with a manager who gets that.

The perfect time was two years ago but get your point and fully agree especially "for once".

[robleflaneur]

Not saying he should stay or go, but there's a lot of "It worked for Wolves" being said now and yes, it did. But before they got it right a lot of things didn't work for Wolves. There's a lot more Solbakkens out there than there are Nunos. 

Indeed. And you aren't not saying:

Key point is they learned from those mistakes. Went on to make other mistakes. Learned from them.
We seem to keep making the same half mistake. Part of me starting to feel relieved we won't humiliate ourselves by boring the top flight again.

I'd hate to be a manager, it's so tough, but his caution Vs risk balance just isn't right.

It's hardly a work of great profundity to say that the root cause of our problem has been that we go from one extreme to the other in rapid succession. Traditional British manager to respected foreign coach to traditional to Next Big Thing to short-term gobshite to young foreigner to... Each with his own style, each with his own philosophy. And we never learn from any of them.

Valid point.It certainly reflects a lack of 'identity' as Southgate labels it.Philosophy is not a word that Tactics Tim would have recognised.Villa have been almost in perpetual crisis mode since MON's departure.Events have shaped Villa's actions ,starting with the timing of MON's departure and then Houillier's retirement.The lack of financial support from Lerner undermined the dubious quality of his subsequent managers.A situation so redolent of the 60s,the board don't back the manager,the best players leave ,the replacements are inadequate,the quality of the coaching and management decline.
And once again events are shaping our club ,this has been the result of being too often a badly run club without a long term plan.As Peter Morris put it in his 1960 book ,'History of Aston Villa', post war up till then Villa had not lived up to their motto,'Forward'.