Scott Hogan - retired

[PeterWithe]

I’d like to be able to claim some far reaching insight but I can’t reallŷ remember why I didn’t think it would work out, probably as I didn’t think he did anything particularly impressively given the fee, he wasn’t quick, strong, skilful or had any stand out qualities. He just got on the end of a lot of good balls slid down the side of CBs by a No10 that we didn’t tend to play a lot of. As I think Jack was bit part at that stage.

[Risso]

I’d like to be able to claim some far reaching insight but I can’t reallŷ remember why I didn’t think it would work out, probably as I didn’t think he did anything particularly impressively given the fee, he wasn’t quick, strong, skilful or had any stand out qualities. He just got on the end of a lot of good balls slid down the side of CBs by a No10 that we didn’t tend to play a lot of. As I think Jack was bit part at that stage.

To be fair, you could make that claim about 75% of Villa's transfers and be right!

[PeterWithe]

Was this the same window Bruce identified the need for a player who could carry the ball through the midfield?  And then bought Hourihane, Barney and Lansbury, none of which could do that job whilst Jack was on he bench.

[paul_e]

But they played about half a season of games each, that's far too soon to decide that they can never be good enough, especially given they were both still U23 when they were with us. My point really is that we move from the 'give them time' to 'nah they're shit' stages far too quickly with young players.

Calling players like Elmo, Taylor, Lansbury, etc shit is different, they're at the peak of their career, they shouldn't need patience, you pay a premium (in wages at least) for them to come in and do a job straight away.

I just think anyone younger than 23-24 needs to have their age and experience taken into account more than we are often willing to do.

You do know it's not a few dozen people on here who decide on whether to persevere with a player, right?

Yes, because slagging off young players after 15-20 games in limited to solely this forum and hasn't been widespread on forums, facebook and twitter or been represented in how crowds at games treat players.

[PeterWithe]

I don’t think any perceived lack of patience on here is necessarily transferred to match day home crowds. Wesley being the obvious example.

[in exile]

Obvious but he needs games and goals.
Would he drop down to League One if wages were not an issue?

[Risso]

But they played about half a season of games each, that's far too soon to decide that they can never be good enough, especially given they were both still U23 when they were with us. My point really is that we move from the 'give them time' to 'nah they're shit' stages far too quickly with young players.

Calling players like Elmo, Taylor, Lansbury, etc shit is different, they're at the peak of their career, they shouldn't need patience, you pay a premium (in wages at least) for them to come in and do a job straight away.

I just think anyone younger than 23-24 needs to have their age and experience taken into account more than we are often willing to do.

You do know it's not a few dozen people on here who decide on whether to persevere with a player, right?

Yes, because slagging off young players after 15-20 games in limited to solely this forum and hasn't been widespread on forums, facebook and twitter or been represented in how crowds at games treat players.

Even if every single member of the crowd was calling a player shit, which just isn't even remotely the case, it's still the manager who picks the team and decides when to sell a player.

[paul_e]

Even if every single member of the crowd was calling a player shit, which just isn't even remotely the case, it's still the manager who picks the team and decides when to sell a player.

Of course, but are you trying to suggest that fans turning on a player has no impact at all? When it happens at the ground everyone sees the impact (Guzan and Lescott are good examples from the relegation season) but when it's all happening on the internet it's hard to be sure but it's not much of a stretch to think that a fair few players (or at least people that know them and pass things along) will be part of the fan community and will see the criticism.

All of this is missing the point though, one of the stated goals of the current owners is to develop younger players, that comes with a risk of some inconsistent performances and will mean everyone will need to be patient with players sometimes. The real skill in developing young players is mastering the balance of giving them chances and knowing when to cut them loose. As fans that means sometimes we do need to be less eager to call someone "the worst striker in the history of the club" (to use a recent example).

[Risso]

All of this is missing the point though, one of the stated goals of the current owners is to develop younger players, that comes with a risk of some inconsistent performances and will mean everyone will need to be patient with players sometimes. The real skill in developing young players is mastering the balance of giving them chances and knowing when to cut them loose. As fans that means sometimes we do need to be less eager to call someone "the worst striker in the history of the club" (to use a recent example).

That 'mastering the balance' is the manager's job.  I've hardly heard a single cross word about any of the likes of Wesley or Guilbert etc this year at the ground.  Same with previous years, whatever we say on here or on Twitter, the crowd have been largely supportive for the most part, even faced with the dismal football we've had to endure for the best part of 10 years.  Gollini wasn't let go because the crowd were on his back, he wasn't played because the manager decided he was costing us too many points and played Bunn instead before getting Johnstone in on loan.

[ASHTONVILLA]

Every time I see a new comment pop up on this thread I oanic, lest Hogan has returned.

[cdbearsfan]

Sorry.

[Demitri_C]

Hogan probably the biggest flop in our history.

[ChicagoLion]

Hogan probably the biggest flop in our history.

Balaban, Ross Mcgateface Micah ?

[Kimaster1976]

I still cannot believe we spent £12 million on him, he has had more games and goals than McCormack managed for the same price however, gotta think positive!

Didn't Hogan have maybe a 4 or 5 game spell where he started every game got a few goals and played really well, I think in Bruce's play off season around the time when we smashed Wolves 4-1 or am I imagining this happening?

[ChicagoLion]

I still cannot believe we spent £12 million on him, he has had more games and goals than McCormack managed for the same price however, gotta think positive!

Didn't Hogan have maybe a 4 or 5 game spell where he started every game got a few goals and played really well, I think in Bruce's play off season around the time when we smashed Wolves 4-1 or am I imagining this happening?

No