BBC report club sacked a scout accused of sexual abuse 1988 but didn't report it

[brontebilly]

Without wishing to defend the indefensible, I wonder if the timing of this story has anything to do with Sir Graham's death - the dead can't sue, neither can they put their side of the story. I also seee that the solicitors involved are Slater & Gordon, who always strike me as a particularly rapacious bunch of ambulance chasers.

Casting doubts on the veracity of the guys claims from the get go?

It's a vile but unfortunately all too common story. Paedos infiltrating organisations with kids, instead of protecting the kids the organisation protects itself. I still can't fathom the reluctance of parents in the 80s ,or earlier, to engage the police right from the start. Why attempt to engage with the organisation that failed to protect their child?   Were the police seen as complicit and/or biased towards institutions?

[old man villa fan]

I am surprised that very little came out when he was convicted in 2007.  Although times were different in the 70s/80s, they certainly were not in 2007.

I cannot remember hearing about the case in 2007 but I would imagine those that new him or of him, would have known about it.  How thorough was the police investigation around 2007 and why is information now coming to light that would have been key evidence if used in 2007 (assuming it wasn't heard).

[Ger Regan]

I'm really disappointed in certain fan's reactions to this story. Not on here, but I've seen some absolutely shameful things on Facebook about this. Club / manager loyalty should only go so far, this is too serious to dismiss it out of hand.

[purpletrousers]

Without wishing to defend the indefensible, I wonder if the timing of this story has anything to do with Sir Graham's death - the dead can't sue, neither can they put their side of the story. I also seee that the solicitors involved are Slater & Gordon, who always strike me as a particularly rapacious bunch of ambulance chasers.

Casting doubts on the veracity of the guys claims from the get go?

It's a vile but unfortunately all too common story. Paedos infiltrating organisations with kids, instead of protecting the kids the organisation protects itself. I still can't fathom the reluctance of parents in the 80s ,or earlier, to engage the police right from the start. Why attempt to engage with the organisation that failed to protect their child?   Were the police seen as complicit and/or biased towards institutions?

Times and culture have changed dramatically.

RE: the point Dave made in January about timing, it's also easier to say difficult but true things about people that are popular, after they are gone.
Whilst of course anything is possible, sadly, I'd be slow to question the truth of someone on that timing alone.

As for GT, sadly guidance and culture around reporting were different, and wrong.
I can conceive someone with an amount of good intention leading a family toward not 'making a fuss' as it would create difficulty for a young career *and* the club, so encouraging non-action.
It doesn't need saying, but just to save someone pointing it out, that would not be good enough intention.
As was also pointed out prior, the seriousness of reporting is exponentially multiplied due to the non/protecting of future victims, not just bringing justice to the child in question.

At least things have shifted here in some ways.

Horrible stories in the news at the moment re: levels of abuse in India, there was a survey a 10 years ago in which 53% of children reported some sort of sexual abuse.

Working in mental health and so often with adults whose psyche's/personalities/health are damaged in this way as kids, it's chilling how much suffering was/is caused.

[lordmcgrath5]

Doesn't sound good. Please let's not have comments about the culture of the time and so on. If as an institution Villa had information that could have possibly stopped other boys being abused, withholding it is shameful whichever way you look at it.

Fully agree with all of Meanwood Villa's comments on this.

There is a repeated pattern of institutions (the church, schools and - yes - football clubs) prioritising the institution over the victims. This directly led to other people being abused. If Villa and specific individuals in charge at the club were guilty of this attitude and behaviour, then both should be held to account in the inquiry.

[CT]

No, I'm not naive, but thanks anyway.

I just think a man with such integrity as he had wouldn't have been involved in a cover up.

It's got fuck all to do with club loyalty, but if it turns out he was guilty of this, then I'm wrong and I'll hold my hands up.

[AVFCRob]

I'm with Ger Regan on this. When I heard the report last night and saw the headline on here I feared that reactions would be instinctively to defend the club.

Nothing is worse than child abuse. We haven't advanced much from the Catholic Church, BBC child abuse scandals have we?

Shocking and shameful.

[PeterWithesShin]

I read the post as SGT was naive at best rather than you CT.

[XXVilla]

I read the post as SGT was naive at best rather than you CT.

Confirmed

[Lucky Eddie]

It's on BBC2 right now

[robbo1874]

As a point of reference, BBC's Childline was created in 1986 and the associated publicity that surrounded it at the time.

You could argue that abuse of Children would have been fairly prominent in the media around the time of these allegations and that if Taylor and more specifically AVFC were aware of the allegations then they should have reported the allegations to the Police and Child welfare authorities.
That is my view in hindsight, which is always a great thing.

Equally the argument could be made that this emerging awareness was only really in its infancy then and the old ways of sweeping things under the carpet would have still been the predominant response to these vile acts.

As I see it, the club, or Taaylor don't come out of this with much credit. The only positive appears to be that they sacked the scout. Personally, I don't subscribe to the line that it 'was the culture of the times' line. We're Aston Villa and we appear to have largely failed the kids and families involved in this sorry affair.

As to Taylor's counselling of those affected, only him Stride and Ellis will really know their motives for pointing out the supposed terrace reaction. Taylor can't defend himself, Ellis will no doubt not remember. Only really Steve Stride could really be relied on to tell the truth and I think he should.

[Lucky Eddie]

As a point of reference, BBC's Childline was created in 1986 and the associated publicity that surrounded it at the time.

You could argue that abuse of Children would have been fairly prominent in the media around the time of these allegations and that if Taylor and more specifically AVFC were aware of the allegations then they should have reported the allegations to the Police and Child welfare authorities.
That is my view in hindsight, which is always a great thing.

Equally the argument could be made that this emerging awareness was only really in its infancy then and the old ways of sweeping things under the carpet would have still been the predominant response to these vile acts.

As I see it, the club, or Taaylor don't come out of this with much credit. The only positive appears to be that they sacked the scout. Personally, I don't subscribe to the line that it 'was the culture of the times' line. We're Aston Villa and we appear to have largely failed the kids and families involved in this sorry affair.

As to Taylor's counselling of those affected, only him Stride and Ellis will really know their motives for pointing out the supposed terrace reaction. Taylor can't defend himself, Ellis will no doubt not remember. Only really Steve Stride could really be relied on to tell the truth and I think he should.

Would you have given different advice to the young players than Graham did?

[old man villa fan]

It's interesting that Taylor should go and speak to the player and his family when he wasn't or had been a Villa player.

[robbo1874]

I'd like to think I would yes, certainly. The thing is though, we don't know whether he genuinely had concerns about the outcome of terrace chanting on the kids, or whether it was scare tactics to make it go away. How close were any of the kids involved to making it at the highest level anyway? We don't really know any of the background detail.

What would you have done?

[brian green]

For what it is worth I took several boys from the East Anglian region for Villa trials during the period in question.  I mixed with and talked at length to the parents of trialists and the scouts of other clubs including those of Leicester City but I never heard a word about impropriety of any kind.  I am not an under carpet sweeper and my wife was a magistrate on our local juvenile bench.  I would have blown the whistle in an instant.