I blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order.
The thing that's frustrating me about England's batting is that whilst bringing in any replacements for Dawson/Ballance/Jennings is a risk, there are no County Championship games going on during July at all, so there is no way of seeing who is in form, getting a closer look at their technique etc. Shoddy scheduling from the ECB, again in this country we don't help our national side enough.
Quote from: Chris Jameson on July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PMI blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order. Doesn't seem to bother players from other countriesEven the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPL
Quote from: UK Redsox on July 18, 2017, 01:57:15 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PMI blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order. Doesn't seem to bother players from other countriesEven the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPLOn top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.
Quote from: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 07:22:27 PMQuote from: UK Redsox on July 18, 2017, 01:57:15 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PMI blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order. Doesn't seem to bother players from other countriesEven the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPLOn top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.
Quote from: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2017, 07:34:43 PMQuote from: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 07:22:27 PMQuote from: UK Redsox on July 18, 2017, 01:57:15 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PMI blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order. Doesn't seem to bother players from other countriesEven the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPLOn top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one). I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out. Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6. I honestly have no idea who that could be though. A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned him
Quote from: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 10:38:28 PMQuote from: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2017, 07:34:43 PMQuote from: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 07:22:27 PMQuote from: UK Redsox on July 18, 2017, 01:57:15 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PMI blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order. Doesn't seem to bother players from other countriesEven the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPLOn top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one). I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out. Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6. I honestly have no idea who that could be though. A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned himI agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high. 6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward. I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five. I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily. For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it. We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window. I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone. One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five. I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three. I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well.
I don't get why Hameed gets mentioned to come back in so much. He averages 19 in First Class cricket in 2017, he also looks to me like he doesn't yet have the physique to really be playing adult cricket. I think he needs a strong summer in the gym as at the moment he just won't have the power and the answers to a rapid Australian bowling attack in the winter. I can understand a Bell recall being ruled out because he hasn't scored the runs this year, but by the same token it's unfair for people to then say Hameed should play.I'd go for giving Duckett another go, a fine player who has shown he can do it at International level in the shorter formats, and is in form with 2 hundreds in his last two First Class games. Sam Robson should also be under consideration for another shot.
Quote from: tomd2103 on July 18, 2017, 11:30:49 PMQuote from: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 10:38:28 PMQuote from: PaulWinch again on July 18, 2017, 07:34:43 PMQuote from: paul_e on July 18, 2017, 07:22:27 PMQuote from: UK Redsox on July 18, 2017, 01:57:15 PMQuote from: Chris Jameson on July 18, 2017, 01:54:17 PMI blame that stupid hit and run game for the failings of our top order. Doesn't seem to bother players from other countriesEven the Boycott-esque Test player Hashim Amla players in the IPLOn top of that the best batsman we have is great in all 3 formats.The problem is that we just don't seem to be able to get players who have the right technique and attitude in the top 5.Not sure that's true Root and Cook are fine and I have no problem with Bairstow. He played a poor shot yesterday but I think he can play the situation normally.Sorry, I should have said enough players with ...I agree those 3 are fine and Ali, Stokes and Woakes are as good a 7, 8 and 9 as any in world cricket and should be played as such, I know some people will say that the first 2 are too good to be that low but there's no point promoting them and bringing in extra bowlers and you wouldn't bring in a dedicated batsman and play him below 7 so it's the best option.The problem is that we really need to fill the other spots (2, 3 and 5 for me but Bairstow could easily jump up one). I think Hameed will come back strong but this year was always going to be a tough one after such a quick rise last season but he's probably 2 years away really and the other 2 spots are anyone's guess.I'd be tempted to take a look at Malan in place of Ballance but he's another who seems better suited to the limited overs stuff but there's no one else that's really jumping out. Keeping Jennings therefore seems sensible and then we really need to find someone to come in at 5/6. I honestly have no idea who that could be though. A few years back it looked like Hain would be ideal to come in and take a spot like that but his game in the longer form seems to have abandoned himI agree with that Paul and would add that I would put Bairstow at six as well, as I think Stokes is batting one place too high. 6, 7, 8, 9 of Bairstow, Stokes, Ali and Woakes should be fine going forward. I think the point made above about James Taylor is a good one, as he was just settling into that role at five. I don't think we have ever really replaced Strauss and Trott at the top of the order though and look very fragile there. We seem to be always looking to the future in test cricket and in doing so, we seem to discard players very hastily. For me, the priority now should be the Ashes in the winter and that is it. We should be looking at players for the upcoming six month window. I am biased, but if we are looking for someone to fill that number five slot and bring a bit of stability over the next few months, Ian Bell would be as good as anyone. One of the female pundits on 5 Live laughingly dismissed the idea (when someone text in to say that Compton should be considered, she laughed saying he was in the past and we shouldn't be looking at players like him and Ian Bell), which I found a bit disrespectful seeing as Bell has got over 20 test hundreds and only really started to struggle when he started being moved around from five. I agree that there has to be some forward planning, but we have time to do that after the Ashes in preparation for the next one here.In terms of the team for the Oval, I would bring in Stoneman to open with Cook (another left hander!) and move Jennings to three. I would have given Ballance another go a bit further down the order, but with him out, we've got the choice of dropping Dawson and maybe playing an extra batsman or keeping Dawson in as well. Bell has hardly set the world alight since he was dropped. I thought he'd score shed loads of runs and force himself back into contention but that hasn't happened.