Steve Bruce - officially confirmed (as Sheffield Wednesday boss)

[sid1964]

I agree with what you say Brian, however the fans will play a massive part in whether Bruce is allowed to remain our Manager. If the current run of form continues, attendances will start to drop and then the fans will turn against him between now and the end of the season, this could have a major say on what Dr Tony decides to do at the end of the season

He has probably already thrown £50 million+ at the team, would he trust Bruce with another £10 million in the summer?, if there is no improvement in form or league position. I am not so sure he would.

[Clampy]

I agree with what you say Brian, however the fans will play a massive part in whether Bruce is allowed to remain our Manager. If the current run of form continues, attendances will start to drop and then the fans will turn against him between now and the end of the season, this could have a major say on what Dr Tony decides to do at the end of the season

He has probably already thrown £50 million+ at the team, would he trust Bruce with another £10 million in the summer?, if there is no improvement in form or league position. I am not so sure he would.

But if he changes manager, he'll probably have to throw a lot more than another £10m at it.

[Ads]

Wager didn't improve Huddersfield an iota when he took over in December last season. We'd have been clamouring for his neck on the block in the Revolving Door FC.

Before Wagner they had 3 wins, 6 draws and 8 losses in 17 games.

Between 5 December and 12 Jan they won 5 out of 9.

He took over with them 19th. Have a guess where they finished.

[brian green]

I agree with you Sid.  The subtle difference is that we the fans have had six years of becoming numb/hardened to failure.  Tony might be less forgiving than we have been obliged to become in recent years. Don't get me wrong, I am no apologist for MON, Houllier, Lambert, McLeish, KMac, Sherwood, Garde, Black or RDM, I think we have had to grow thick skins to still keep coming back for more of the same.
Brentford, even allowing for mitigating circumstances, was as bad as anything we have seen post MON.

[itbrvilla]

I agree with you Sid.  The subtle difference is that we the fans have had six years of becoming numb/hardened to failure.  Tony might be less forgiving than we have been obliged to become in recent years. Don't get me wrong, I am no apologist for MON, Houllier, Lambert, McLeish, KMac, Sherwood, Garde, Black or RDM, I think we have had to grow thick skins to still keep coming back for more of the same.
Brentford, even allowing for mitigating circumstances, was as bad as anything we have seen post MON.

I'd put it in the top 2-3 worst results as a fan since 94.

[boozey182]

Bruce has an almost unprecedented opportunity now, it seems. Dr X has given him a backing and, with the playoffs out of reach, he has three months of matches to help prepare for next season. Get his preferred formation sorted, bleed in a few youngsters (RHM, Green, Bedeau), assess exactly what needs to be done in the summer...you know, exactly the type of thing that we should have done this time last year and what Newcastle are currently benefiting from. While I remain unconvinced by Bruce, this is the best strategy for getting us up next season, and he'll know what a great opportunity it is, and what a great advantage he'll have over the teams scrapping over the playoff places and fighting relegation in the Premier League at the moment. They'll all have major upheaval in the summer based on the outcome of this season, whereas I imagine we'll be pretty settled. The next few months will be up and down, but they might be the most important we've had in a long time.

[TheMalandro]

I agree with you Sid.  The subtle difference is that we the fans have had six years of becoming numb/hardened to failure.  Tony might be less forgiving than we have been obliged to become in recent years. Don't get me wrong, I am no apologist for MON, Houllier, Lambert, McLeish, KMac, Sherwood, Garde, Black or RDM, I think we have had to grow thick skins to still keep coming back for more of the same.
Brentford, even allowing for mitigating circumstances, was as bad as anything we have seen post MON.

I'd put it in the top 2-3 worst results as a fan since 94.

I thought it was a very good Brentford performance. We were poor but they played exceptionally well.

[Chris Smith]

Our best hope for promotion next season is that Bruce is still with us rather than face another summer of upheaval and the inevitable settling in period required for a new manager. Therefore setting artificial targets is counter productive, it will be obvious to everyone if it is working but saying we must win x number of points stifles any thoughts of experimentation or risk taking.

Clearly, if he we lose every game and the new players all turn out to be duds then he will have to go but it will be back to the drawing board and potentially another wasted year.

[old man villa fan]

I can't say that I have studied Bruce's way of playing at his past clubs but my impression is that, as they have been lesser teams, he has had to play defensive and counterattacking football through necessity.  Can he turn this mentality around to develop dominating play.  As if he doesn't, promotion next season will not be a certainty.

[Villatillidie25]

I agree with you Sid.  The subtle difference is that we the fans have had six years of becoming numb/hardened to failure.  Tony might be less forgiving than we have been obliged to become in recent years. Don't get me wrong, I am no apologist for MON, Houllier, Lambert, McLeish, KMac, Sherwood, Garde, Black or RDM, I think we have had to grow thick skins to still keep coming back for more of the same.
Brentford, even allowing for mitigating circumstances, was as bad as anything we have seen post MON.

I'd put it in the top 2-3 worst results as a fan since 94.

Really?! Somewhat melodramatic... it was bad but we've seen really bad in the past 5 years - Luton, Bradford x 2, Milwall, Arsenal, Chelsea etc etc

[Clampy]

I agree with you Sid.  The subtle difference is that we the fans have had six years of becoming numb/hardened to failure.  Tony might be less forgiving than we have been obliged to become in recent years. Don't get me wrong, I am no apologist for MON, Houllier, Lambert, McLeish, KMac, Sherwood, Garde, Black or RDM, I think we have had to grow thick skins to still keep coming back for more of the same.
Brentford, even allowing for mitigating circumstances, was as bad as anything we have seen post MON.

I'd put it in the top 2-3 worst results as a fan since 94.

Really?! Somewhat melodramatic... it was bad but we've seen really bad in the past 5 years - Luton, Bradford x 2, Milwall, Arsenal, Chelsea etc etc

There were a few last season as well. Liverpool at home for one but the one that always sticks in my head was Lambert's last game away at Hull.

[ciggiesnbeer]

To argue with ibrvilla for a moment, it did underline where we are as a club perhaps a little more than others because of its nature. In the league level we play at, expectation, play style, player effort, manager choices and opposition. That kind of convergence from many differing shards of awfulness tends to make a mark.

[mattjpa]

Off the top of my head....
Inheriting a defence that shipped goals - and he's not fixed it
inheriting a weak midfield - and rather than try to work with them he decided to sign an entire midfield
inheriting a woefully unfit squad - every manager says this but I honestly don't see us as being any fitter now than we were when he arrived
a 12m striker that couldnt be arsed turning up for training - that appears to have only happened since Bruce arrived and coincides with Bruce deciding to rehabilitate a striker who had taken the piss just as much.
injuries/sickness to Baker, Adomah and more importantly Jedinak - every team has injuries
Men coming back from international duty on the other side of the world - people being full internationals in the championship is a nice problem to have so long as they deliver in the 35-40 games where they're not jet-lagged or travelling
an unprecedented 6 signings in january and two of our best players going to AFCON. - First bit, this was his choice, 2nd bit as above

answered in line but what I'm getting at here is that any manager who joins a club to repalce a sacked manager will have problems to deal with, it's why they got the job and fixing those problems is the core part of the job for the first year.

I've been a little harsh on purpose because he's paid a fortune to fix the problems and improve us, he really doesn't need to have excuses made for him, and most of those are excuses not explanations.

If you read through the thread that lead up to my post you would see i was not putting together a list of excuses for him, I was taking issue with LukeJames' claim that A) SB's methods were outdated when he had absolutely nothing to back it up and B) That he was hopelessly throwing formations at a wall and hoping one would stick. I was arguing that there were several reasons why we haven't got a settled team or formation yet.  Im in complete agreement that progress is limited at the moment and we have really stunk for a few games BUT im firmly in the camp that a manager has to be given a transfer window and a preseason (just like RDM was) before a judgement on his performance and our long term progress should be made

[UK Redsox]

I agree with you Sid.  The subtle difference is that we the fans have had six years of becoming numb/hardened to failure.  Tony might be less forgiving than we have been obliged to become in recent years. Don't get me wrong, I am no apologist for MON, Houllier, Lambert, McLeish, KMac, Sherwood, Garde, Black or RDM, I think we have had to grow thick skins to still keep coming back for more of the same.
Brentford, even allowing for mitigating circumstances, was as bad as anything we have seen post MON.

I'd put it in the top 2-3 worst results as a fan since 94.

Really?! Somewhat melodramatic... it was bad but we've seen really bad in the past 5 years - Luton, Bradford x 2, Milwall, Arsenal, Chelsea etc etc

There were a few last season as well. Liverpool at home for one but the one that always sticks in my head was Lambert's last game away at Hull.

It was right up there (down there?) for me.

Yes, the Chelsea games were absolute batterings but they looked like batterings from early on.

Brentford was an in-game collapse from the position of being the totally dominant team to "squeal like a pig" all within the space of half an hour or so.

[brontebilly]

Like I've said a few times, providing we don't nosedive down the league or he doesn't lose the dressing room, he's my choice to take us into next season.

Does 2 points from 6 games and  1 win a 6 defeats in 7 away games not count as nosediving?  That's why I'm posting on this thread so often, I can't work out why there aren't a lot more people who are concerned by this.

Bruce has succeeded in dumbing down expectations. Shit performances, results in a tail spin and throwing the cheque book at the problem.

Changing to 343 was particularly worrying at the weekend, as others have said we barely have three centre halves on the books so the recent transfer plunge surely should have considered another centre half.

Like any manager he needs results to improve but some consistency of tactics and team selection would surely help.

You do realise we've had 9 players come in, in the January transfer window alone, don't you? We've also had 8 out i think, with 3 sold and 5 loaned. I'd suggest it's pretty difficult given those numbers alone, to pick a consistent team. When some players have only actually been here for 1 or 2 games.

He experimented with what he inherited to try and get the best out of it, but the team was obviously not good enough in several areas, and we all knew it. He had a good initial effect but the same old problems kept cropping up. Injuries also dictated teams and tactics too.

Now he's had a fairly good transfer window with his choice of players, given the obvious constraints, and now he has to be given time to work with them. Personally i think we've now got a pretty good group of players, we messed up at Forrest (mostly through individual errors) but i saw a lot of potential in some of the performances and the partnerships that can be struck up.

I think the Dr is doing exactly the right thing too with his latest comments about using this season now as a springboard for the next. It takes the pressure off of the manager and players for a bit, which i think affects a lot of people when they come here, and will allow them to play with a bit more freedom and fluency. If we hit a good run and make the play offs all well and good, if not, we consolidate in the summer by shifting some more of the deadwood, get a few more shrewd acquisitions in and really go for it next season.

Obviously if things continue as they have and don't tangibly improve before the end of the season, then he has to go, but i just can't see that happening with his track record.

Im aware of the recent transfer business, yes.

However I dont buy it as an excuse, it was Bruce's decision to change keepers, the entire midfield and swap Hogan for McCormack and Ayew. Bruce has been with us for a decent run of it now and I for one see no improvement whatsoever. There was very little improvement in performances either lets be honest in the good run points wise we had at the start of his reign.

I'm not calling for his (potato) head yet but I do think he is seriously underachieving as a manager so far at the club. Our budget dwarfs most other clubs in this division combined yet they are still making mugs of us on a weekly basis. The thought of Bruce being allowed to spend more money in the summer is bonkers.

The state of the team lineup v Forest, Hourihane on the right of Lansbury again ffs, if we were playing wing backs how come they were not playing at least 10 yards further up the pitch, failing to hook Grealish early on, sitting back into our own half against the might of Forest who are so potless they have loaned two of our castoffs

the mind boggles as to what tactics Bruce is attempting to deploy