Welcome Roberto Di Matteo and Steve Clarke

[RussellC]

Are you suggesting getting rid of Toner and Lyden?

Yes. They are bang average players who benefitted from not being Richards, Lescott, Bacuna etc last season so were lauded far beyond their abilities. The Phil Robinsons or Dean Glovers of 2016 Aston Villa.

Or potentially the Steven Davis and Gary Cahill of 2016...?

[Chris Smith]

Are you suggesting getting rid of Toner and Lyden?

Yes. They are bang average players who benefitted from not being Richards, Lescott, Bacuna etc last season so were lauded far beyond their abilities. The Phil Robinsons or Dean Glovers of 2016 Aston Villa.

Or potentially the Steven Davis and Gary Cahill of 2016...?

I agree, I don't think we can judge them based on being chucked in during our shambles of last season. Peter might be right but I would sooner they be given a little more time.

[old man villa fan]

Are you suggesting getting rid of Toner and Lyden?

Yes. They are bang average players who benefitted from not being Richards, Lescott, Bacuna etc last season so were lauded far beyond their abilities. The Phil Robinsons or Dean Glovers of 2016 Aston Villa.

Nothing like giving young players the chance to develop at a level a bit less demanding and also making a statement to other young players coming through.

[tomd2103]

Are you suggesting getting rid of Toner and Lyden?

Yes. They are bang average players who benefitted from not being Richards, Lescott, Bacuna etc last season so were lauded far beyond their abilities. The Phil Robinsons or Dean Glovers of 2016 Aston Villa.

Nothing like giving young players the chance to develop at a level a bit less demanding and also making a statement to other young players coming through.

I hope to see more younger players feature this season.  I read somewhere that four or five of the U21 squad will be training with the first team. 

[Toronto Villa]

Are you suggesting getting rid of Toner and Lyden?

Yes. They are bang average players who benefitted from not being Richards, Lescott, Bacuna etc last season so were lauded far beyond their abilities. The Phil Robinsons or Dean Glovers of 2016 Aston Villa.

How on earth can you come to that conclusion based them being introduced to the first team under those conditions last season?

[saunders_heroes]

I'm all for playing young players but only if they're good enough. Don't just call for them to be in the team because they came through the ranks. Christ we've had some shit come through the ranks over the last few years, players who aren't fit for the shirt really. They certainly contributed to our decline since 2010.

[Toronto Villa]

What's been a little surprising is that aside from a couple of pictures that came on the day players returned for pre season there hasn't been any others, no videos, interviews etc. It's like everything is being done in secrecy by the new regime. I imagine between now and the training camp some more might come out but they are looking to conduct a thorough review so maybe as part of that they are trying to keep things as private as possible.

[Toronto Villa]

I'm all for playing young players but only if they're good enough. Don't just call for them to be in the team because they came through the ranks. Christ we've had some shit come through the ranks over the last few years, players who aren't fit for the shirt really. They certainly contributed to our decline since 2010.

That goes without saying, and often they have come in way before their time, or just because the actual first team players are shit. Young players should only be introduced because they add something. I just don't think that any of us has seen enough of Lyden and Toner yet to say they should be ditched.

[peter w]

Are you suggesting getting rid of Toner and Lyden?

Yes. They are bang average players who benefitted from not being Richards, Lescott, Bacuna etc last season so were lauded far beyond their abilities. The Phil Robinsons or Dean Glovers of 2016 Aston Villa.

How on earth can you come to that conclusion based them being introduced to the first team under those conditions last season?

Because they looked average players. you don't need see players in good teams to be able to judge their ability, if anything that blinds people. Toner came in because there was very little choice but to bring him in (I suppose you could thank Black for that), but he doesn't look anything other than what he was ran average player in a poor team.

he could well develop but I haven't watched him and thought he was anything other than what i've described. I also haven't heard many people on here salivate over an Elphick and Toner back line. He's still young though so maybe he does have time on his side to develop but he doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form, for anyone to think he is likely to.

Moving on from that, I think other players that Di matteo may look at in terms of the squad being too large is Suliman, Blackett-Taylor, Watkins, Mason, Sellars, and Davis. What do you do with them? You can't give them contracts and then dump them in the reserves so either loan to the lower leagues or sell. It also depends on reports and age too, obviously, but the scouting system has been heavily criticised and rightly so. Not everyone is able to develop a Bale or a Rooney, but we're barely able to produce a Clark or a Bannan at the moment.

[robbo1874]

Time will tell. All we can do is have faith in RDM and Clarke. The ones who are good enough will surely get a chance, maybe even some of the ones who aren't quite will also. Our best hope is to rid the squad of as many of the under achievers we had last season and start afresh, in my view.

[Dave]

What's been a little surprising is that aside from a couple of pictures that came on the day players returned for pre season there hasn't been any others, no videos, interviews etc. It's like everything is being done in secrecy by the new regime. I imagine between now and the training camp some more might come out but they are looking to conduct a thorough review so maybe as part of that they are trying to keep things as private as possible.

Either that or all the people who would be taking pictures, conducting interviews and writing up the copy for the website have been laid off.

[old man villa fan]

Are you suggesting getting rid of Toner and Lyden?

Yes. They are bang average players who benefitted from not being Richards, Lescott, Bacuna etc last season so were lauded far beyond their abilities. The Phil Robinsons or Dean Glovers of 2016 Aston Villa.

How on earth can you come to that conclusion based them being introduced to the first team under those conditions last season?

Because they looked average players. you don't need see players in good teams to be able to judge their ability, if anything that blinds people. Toner came in because there was very little choice but to bring him in (I suppose you could thank Black for that), but he doesn't look anything other than what he was ran average player in a poor team.

he could well develop but I haven't watched him and thought he was anything other than what i've described. I also haven't heard many people on here salivate over an Elphick and Toner back line. He's still young though so maybe he does have time on his side to develop but he doesn't stand out in any way, shape, or form, for anyone to think he is likely to.

Moving on from that, I think other players that Di matteo may look at in terms of the squad being too large is Suliman, Blackett-Taylor, Watkins, Mason, Sellars, and Davis. What do you do with them? You can't give them contracts and then dump them in the reserves so either loan to the lower leagues or sell. It also depends on reports and age too, obviously, but the scouting system has been heavily criticised and rightly so. Not everyone is able to develop a Bale or a Rooney, but we're barely able to produce a Clark or a Bannan at the moment.

and yet some are talking about keeping on Hutton, Westwood etc. who would clearly blocking the development of the team going forward.

[peter w]

You need to keep some experienced players - whoever they may be - and add better quality to it. I don't think there's any doubt that there are better players around than Hutton and Westwood, for example, but getting rid of them just because we hope the academy players will turn out to be better is mindlessly optimistic at best and dereliction of any coaching/managerial duty at worst.

[Toronto Villa]

What's been a little surprising is that aside from a couple of pictures that came on the day players returned for pre season there hasn't been any others, no videos, interviews etc. It's like everything is being done in secrecy by the new regime. I imagine between now and the training camp some more might come out but they are looking to conduct a thorough review so maybe as part of that they are trying to keep things as private as possible.

Either that or all the people who would be taking pictures, conducting interviews and writing up the copy for the website have been laid off.

so who took the pictures and videos when Xia/RDM joined the club or when Elphick joined? And even if some of our media team were laid off we could just outsource those services.

edit: well that was well timed

[thegreatdane]

our new fitness coach has quite an impressive website

http://www.maxmarchesi.com/