Welcome Roberto Di Matteo and Steve Clarke

[Ger Regan]

This would have been a non story from the start if she wasn't female and good looking. That's sexism for you...

We'll never really know as I don't ever recall a manager going beserk at a physio for doing their job before.

[peter w]

This would have been a non story from the start if she wasn't female and good looking. That's sexism for you...

Maybe if she worked for a high street retailer I'd agree with you. As it is she's on a high profile position, with a high profile club, and involved in a high profile incident. In this incidence I'm not sure her looks contributed to the outcome but certainly it did influence on lookers to stay interested.

[paul_e]

Does this extend to black and asian players who are racially abused, and to gay players who experience homophobic abuse too? Should they just 'grow up' too? Or is it only sexism that is okay?

Do you really think a bit of wolf whistling 'banter' is the same as hate fueled racism?   I use the phrase banter guardedly as I fully appreciate it is not be very nice and of course we could do without it in this day and age, but the terrace chants about female referees and linesmen are generally intended to be good natured (if misguided).  Are they really that much worse than calling a referee a c***?  Are they really any way near as bad as screaming abuse at black players?  Personally I don't think they are.

They're aimed at demeaning someone because of what they are rather than what they do, which to me makes them every bit as bad as racism. I can remember when that was just 'banter' as well.

Dave - I understand what you are saying but disagree with you.  A builder wolf whistling a lady walking past a building site is not comparable to someone screaming racist abuse.  It may be neither are acceptable in this day and age, but I do think the intent is very different.

but we're not talking about a single builder wolf-whistling someone.  We're talking about men in a crowd containing women and children treating her as an object because she's tryin gto do her and job and being encouraged to do so by her manager who then outright questioned her professional judgement on TV which, in most opinions, he would never have done had she been male.

Moving back to the original point the underlying sentiment was that she as woman worked in a public role within football so she should expect and just live with the various forms of sexism that she was subjected to.  There's really not much, in terms of attitude towards women, difference between that and the ched evans "she had sex with my mate so she was up for it" defence, in both cases people are trying to take away the rights of the woman being a victim because she should've known that men can't control themselves.  I personally find that sentiment just as sexist to men as I do to women and it's an attitude that belongs in the past.

[SheffieldVillain]

Does this extend to black and asian players who are racially abused, and to gay players who experience homophobic abuse too? Should they just 'grow up' too? Or is it only sexism that is okay?

Do you really think a bit of wolf whistling 'banter' is the same as hate fueled racism?   I use the phrase banter guardedly as I fully appreciate it is not be very nice and of course we could do without it in this day and age, but the terrace chants about female referees and linesmen are generally intended to be good natured (if misguided).  Are they really that much worse than calling a referee a c***?  Are they really any way near as bad as screaming abuse at black players?  Personally I don't think they are.

How do you know that it was just 'wolf-whistling banter'?

And also, to use the racism comparison, monkey noises were just 'monkey-noise banter', not necessarily always hate-filled. Singing 'do you take it up the arse' at Graeme Le Saux and others was just good-natured banter, 'part of the football experience'.  Now seen as wholly unacceptable.

[Risso]

Jesus, I can't honestly believe people are having a go at her over this.  Chelsea, could, and should have realised that Mourinho was TOTALLY out of order and sorted it out months ago.  She was reportedly on £500K a year for her role, and if true there's no way I'd have accepted an offer of £1.2m and no apology if I'd been unacceptably forced out of my job by a bullying superior either.

[Dave]

This would have been a non story from the start if she wasn't female and good looking. That's sexism for you...

Maybe if she worked for a high street retailer I'd agree with you. As it is she's on a high profile position, with a high profile club, and involved in a high profile incident. In this incidence I'm not sure her looks contributed to the outcome but certainly it did influence on lookers to stay interested.

Agree on the "staying interested" part. Even in the hours after the incident, everybody had forgotten who Jon Fearn was.

[PeterWithesShin]

From the Beeb and is why I think there's a good chance they paid so much was to keep things from being made public.

The case was expected to last seven to 10 days and could have led to potentially embarrassing witness statements and documents - including texts and emails - being made public.

Allegations included this, must have been lovely for her going to work and having bantz.

....... and regularly had to endure sexually explicit comments from her colleagues.

[chrisw1]

Does this extend to black and asian players who are racially abused, and to gay players who experience homophobic abuse too? Should they just 'grow up' too? Or is it only sexism that is okay?

Do you really think a bit of wolf whistling 'banter' is the same as hate fueled racism?   I use the phrase banter guardedly as I fully appreciate it is not be very nice and of course we could do without it in this day and age, but the terrace chants about female referees and linesmen are generally intended to be good natured (if misguided).  Are they really that much worse than calling a referee a c***?  Are they really any way near as bad as screaming abuse at black players?  Personally I don't think they are.

How do you know that it was just 'wolf-whistling banter'?

And also, to use the racism comparison, monkey noises were just 'monkey-noise banter', not necessarily always hate-filled. Singing 'do you take it up the arse' at Graeme Le Saux and others was just good-natured banter, 'part of the football experience'.  Now seen as wholly unacceptable.

OK, so here we are talking about people in a football crowd wolf whistling etc right?  My take on it is this is usually done in a good natured way, if not always received this way by the recipient.  Conversely racist chanting is usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred.  I understand why neither may be particularly acceptable, but my personal opinion is that they are not really comparable.  For the record, I am not particularly defending the 'sexist' behavior and do not partake in it myself, but my opinion is that comparing it to 1980's style full on racism is somewhat hysterical. 

[Small Rodent]

From the Beeb and is why I think there's a good chance they paid so much was to keep things from being made public.

The case was expected to last seven to 10 days and could have led to potentially embarrassing witness statements and documents - including texts and emails - being made public.

Allegations included this, must have been lovely for her going to work and having bantz.

....... and regularly had to endure sexually explicit comments from her colleagues.

Yep. I swear this country is going backwards, or has it ever moved on and casual racism, sexism etc has just been hidden? This new excuse of "banter" and denigration of PC as being something which it isn't shows a new bullying society we live in. 

[SheffieldVillain]

OK, so here we are talking about people in a football crowd wolf whistling etc right?  My take on it is this is usually done in a good natured way, if not always received this way by the recipient.  Conversely racist chanting is usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred.  I understand why neither may be particularly acceptable, but my personal opinion is that they are not really comparable.  For the record, I am not particularly defending the 'sexist' behavior and do not partake in it myself, but my opinion is that comparing it to 1980's style full on racism is somewhat hysterical. 

No, you're stating your own experiences here as fact.
Wolf-whistling and sexist banter 'is done in a good natured way'.
Racist chants are usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred."

As I said earlier, monkey chants and homophobic chants have often been delivered in a 'good-natured', 'part of the crowd way'. It doesn't make them right.

This isn't comparing them to '1980's style full on racism', it's comparing them to behaviour which has continued, albeit on a lesser scale, right up to the present day.

If you believe that if discriminatory abuse delivered in a 'good natured way' is okay, fair enough. You also seem to have narrowed this down to a bit of wolf-whistling and have conveniently missed out the other reported types of comments.

[dave.woodhall]

Does this extend to black and asian players who are racially abused, and to gay players who experience homophobic abuse too? Should they just 'grow up' too? Or is it only sexism that is okay?

Do you really think a bit of wolf whistling 'banter' is the same as hate fueled racism?   I use the phrase banter guardedly as I fully appreciate it is not be very nice and of course we could do without it in this day and age, but the terrace chants about female referees and linesmen are generally intended to be good natured (if misguided).  Are they really that much worse than calling a referee a c***?  Are they really any way near as bad as screaming abuse at black players?  Personally I don't think they are.

How do you know that it was just 'wolf-whistling banter'?

And also, to use the racism comparison, monkey noises were just 'monkey-noise banter', not necessarily always hate-filled. Singing 'do you take it up the arse' at Graeme Le Saux and others was just good-natured banter, 'part of the football experience'.  Now seen as wholly unacceptable.

OK, so here we are talking about people in a football crowd wolf whistling etc right?  My take on it is this is usually done in a good natured way, if not always received this way by the recipient.  Conversely racist chanting is usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred.  I understand why neither may be particularly acceptable, but my personal opinion is that they are not really comparable.  For the record, I am not particularly defending the 'sexist' behavior and do not partake in it myself, but my opinion is that comparing it to 1980's style full on racism is somewhat hysterical. 

Perhaps if you were a woman, and afraid to be out after dark because of what some would call 'banter' and others would call assault, you might think differently.

[chrisw1]

OK, so here we are talking about people in a football crowd wolf whistling etc right?  My take on it is this is usually done in a good natured way, if not always received this way by the recipient.  Conversely racist chanting is usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred.  I understand why neither may be particularly acceptable, but my personal opinion is that they are not really comparable.  For the record, I am not particularly defending the 'sexist' behavior and do not partake in it myself, but my opinion is that comparing it to 1980's style full on racism is somewhat hysterical. 

No, you're stating your own experiences here as fact.
"Wolf-whistling and demeaning women is done in a good natured way.
Racist chants are usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred."

As I said earlier, monkey chants and homophobic chants have often been delivered in a 'good-natured', 'part of the crowd way'. It doesn't make them right.

This isn't comparing them to '1980's style full on racism', it's comparing them to behaviour which has continued, albeit on a lesser scale, right up to the present day.

If you believe that if discriminatory abuse delivered in a 'good natured way' is okay, fair enough. You also seem to have narrowed this down to a bit of wolf-whistling and have conveniently missed out the other reported types of comments reported.

The point specifically started when the crowd chants to her were directly compared to 1970's and 80' football crowd racism in an earlier comment.  I have said I don't think they are particularly comparable and I remain of this view.   

I have also said Jose acted like a tit and the club dealt with it badly.  Finally I have said I think £5m is a hell of a lot for being treated badly at work and losing your job.

[Stirchley Villain]

OK, so here we are talking about people in a football crowd wolf whistling etc right?  My take on it is this is usually done in a good natured way, if not always received this way by the recipient.  Conversely racist chanting is usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred.  I understand why neither may be particularly acceptable, but my personal opinion is that they are not really comparable.  For the record, I am not particularly defending the 'sexist' behavior and do not partake in it myself, but my opinion is that comparing it to 1980's style full on racism is somewhat hysterical. 

No, you're stating your own experiences here as fact.
"Wolf-whistling and demeaning women is done in a good natured way.
Racist chants are usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred."

As I said earlier, monkey chants and homophobic chants have often been delivered in a 'good-natured', 'part of the crowd way'. It doesn't make them right.

This isn't comparing them to '1980's style full on racism', it's comparing them to behaviour which has continued, albeit on a lesser scale, right up to the present day.

If you believe that if discriminatory abuse delivered in a 'good natured way' is okay, fair enough. You also seem to have narrowed this down to a bit of wolf-whistling and have conveniently missed out the other reported types of comments reported.

The point specifically started when the crowd chants to her were directly compared to 1970's and 80' football crowd racism in an earlier comment.  I have said I don't think they are particularly comparable and I remain of this view.   

I have also said Jose acted like a tit and the club dealt with it badly.  Finally I have said I think £5m is a hell of a lot for being treated badly at work and losing your job.

To be fair to Mourinho and as much as I dislike the bloke "filho/filha do/da puta" is a general expletive in the Portuguese language, a bit like FFS or son of a bitch is in ours. I don't think she was wrong to take offence though.

[chrisw1]

Does this extend to black and asian players who are racially abused, and to gay players who experience homophobic abuse too? Should they just 'grow up' too? Or is it only sexism that is okay?

Do you really think a bit of wolf whistling 'banter' is the same as hate fueled racism?   I use the phrase banter guardedly as I fully appreciate it is not be very nice and of course we could do without it in this day and age, but the terrace chants about female referees and linesmen are generally intended to be good natured (if misguided).  Are they really that much worse than calling a referee a c***?  Are they really any way near as bad as screaming abuse at black players?  Personally I don't think they are.

How do you know that it was just 'wolf-whistling banter'?

And also, to use the racism comparison, monkey noises were just 'monkey-noise banter', not necessarily always hate-filled. Singing 'do you take it up the arse' at Graeme Le Saux and others was just good-natured banter, 'part of the football experience'.  Now seen as wholly unacceptable.

OK, so here we are talking about people in a football crowd wolf whistling etc right?  My take on it is this is usually done in a good natured way, if not always received this way by the recipient.  Conversely racist chanting is usually delivered with an underlying air of menace and hatred.  I understand why neither may be particularly acceptable, but my personal opinion is that they are not really comparable.  For the record, I am not particularly defending the 'sexist' behavior and do not partake in it myself, but my opinion is that comparing it to 1980's style full on racism is somewhat hysterical. 

Perhaps if you were a woman, and afraid to be out after dark because of what some would call 'banter' and others would call assault, you might think differently.

So people in a football ground chanting 'get your tits out for the lads' is akin to assaulting a woman in the street?  FFS.  It may not be pleasant Dave but it's a ridiculous comparison.  If you read my posts carefully you will note I have always said it isn't nice behavior and we could do without it.  But I don't think it is akin to the racism we saw in the 70's and 80's.  Nor do I think it's akin to assaulting a woman in the street.  Maybe you do.  Shall we leave it there?

[dave.woodhall]

So people in a football ground chanting 'get your tits out for the lads' is akin to assaulting a woman in the street?  FFS.  It may not be pleasant Dave but it's a ridiculous comparison.  If you read my posts carefully you will note I have always said it isn't nice behavior and we could do without it.  But I don't think it is akin to the racism we saw in the 70's and 80's.  Nor do I think it's akin to assaulting a woman in the street.  Maybe you do.  Shall we leave it there?

It may not be as bad but the principle is the same. If someone says, or does, something towards you that you don't want it's unacceptable and can lead to worse. But what's up darlin' got no sense of humour? You know you love it really.