Doug interview on Sky now

[Chris Harte]

How is that any different to those that defend Ellis and rarely, if ever, criticise him?

I never said it was any different.

There seems to be a small number of people here who have been trying to dismiss Ellis' role in Villa getting promoted back to the old Division One. His role was he employed Graham Taylor, who then did the rest. But even that seems too much for some, who say things like "it was more luck than judgement", "Taylor chose Villa, not the other way round" or even "Ellis only employed Taylor because so-and-so told him that Taylor might be/was available." Really? Take advice from someone? How dare he!

If Lerner takes the advice that leads to him making the right actions to returning the club to the PL then he'll deserve the credit too.

[PeterWithesShin]

So it's the same thing but only one side of it bothers you?

There's an even smaller number of people who have been trying to dismiss that if it had been left to Ellis we'd almost certainly have had Dave Bassett as manager. His role was to find the find next Villa manager, that's who he found until SGT was delivered to him. If you want praise for that decision, well at least he could see the same as everyone else on the planet that SGT was a better choice than Dave Bassett.

[Chris Harte]

So it's the same thing but only one side of it bothers you?

Did I say that?

There's an even smaller number of people who have been trying to dismiss that if it had been left to Ellis we'd almost certainly have had Dave Bassett as manager. His role was to find the find next Villa manager, that's who he found until SGT was delivered to him. If you want praise for that decision, well at least he could see the same as everyone else on the planet that SGT was a better choice than Dave Bassett.

So you agree then that Ellis deserves credit, whether Taylor's appointment was due to advice from someone else or not. Ultimately, he acted. He could have ignored the advice he was given.

[PeterWithesShin]

Well you only ever criticise those that in your eyes give him no praise, never those that appear on threads to only defend and praise him and never criticise. Seems pretty one sided to me.

Maybe remember that I did actually praise for him Venglos a few pages ago. I don't give him praise for SGT as imo he doesn't deserve it as he didn't actively try and sign him as manager, to me that makes a difference. If he'd gone after SGT and signed him then i'd praise him for it. I'll praise or criticise when I think either one is deserved.

[Chris Harte]

Well you only ever criticise those that in your eyes give him no praise, never those that appear on threads to only defend and praise him and never criticise. Seems pretty one sided to me.

You'll have to point those out to me because I'm not sure I've ever seen such posts.

Balance is the word.

[PeterWithesShin]

Well you've posted on this thread 7 or 8 times without criticising him so ner ner

[TopDeck113]

Just going off on a slight tangent, but it is only in retrospect (and maybe for five of the last seven months he was here) that I appreciate how remarkable SGT's first tenure was in terms of the transformation in the club.  However, my recollection of the time is that I enjoyed the first season away trips but many of the home games were dire, the second season was an okay-ish start followed by a prolonged dire period that almost ended in relegation and a final season where his job was under threat by the early autumn. The fact that there were still players at Villa Park in those years that had played on a certain May evening in 1982 perhaps demonstrates that fans' expectations were coloured more by that recent success than the subsequent relegation.  Against that background of relative mediocrity, if they'd been for a walk around the rose garden after the Derby County game, the fact that Doug hadn't actively pursued SGT would now be used by some as a case to argue that he'd been negligent in his recruitment procedures!

[DaveD]

Without wanting to defend Doug, while SGT was clearly a far better option, would Dave Bassett have been so terrible ? Okay the football might have been a bit agricultural but he'd probably have got the job done - he had a pretty good record at Wimbledon and later Sheffield United and even Forest to an extent.

I'm just saying he was a fairly well regarded young manager at the time. We've seen far worse appointments before and since.

[andyh]

Without wanting to defend Doug, while SGT was clearly a far better option, would Dave Bassett have been so terrible ? Okay the football might have been a bit agricultural but he'd probably have got the job done - he had a pretty good record at Wimbledon and later Sheffield United and even Forest to an extent.

I'm just saying he was a fairly well regarded young manager at the time. We've seen far worse appointments before and since.

A very good point.
We turned our noses up at the thought of Bassett then, in the same we we do about Allerdyce, Pullis and Pearson now.
(In the case of Pullis, it's totally justified)

[PeterWithesShin]

We'll never know for sure but in a bit of of a twist of fate, after SGT joined us Bassett took over Watford. And promptly relegated them. He was sacked during that first season went to Sheff Utd and relegated them as well. While he did okay at Sheff Utd for a few years he did relegate them twice. He relegated Forest twice as well.

[DaveD]

His first relegation with both Sheffield United and Forest was pretty much nailed on when he arrived.

[PeterWithesShin]

Sheff Utd were outside the drop zone by a few points when he took over. I can't find the exact date in March he took over Forest but they were no worse off than we were when Sherwood arrived.

[Chico Hamilton III]

Without wanting to defend Doug, while SGT was clearly a far better option, would Dave Bassett have been so terrible ? Okay the football might have been a bit agricultural but he'd probably have got the job done - he had a pretty good record at Wimbledon and later Sheffield United and even Forest to an extent.

I'm just saying he was a fairly well regarded young manager at the time. We've seen far worse appointments before and since.

It's easy to forget that Taylor was an exponent of the long ball game as well. "Long passes", as he called them. But that's how football was played in this country at the time.   

[dave.woodhall]

I can't see Dave Bassett unearthing Yorke, Platt and McGrath.

[Tayls_7]

I can't see Dave Bassett unearthing Yorke, Platt and McGrath.

Unearthing McGrath?