West Ham vs Aston Villa Post Match Thread

[brian green]

Phil, I think the give away was when he said he would be here in May.  He is very intelligent and open, totally unlike anybody else at the club recent past or present.  He was telling us that he would see this season out.  Because, if the board are so hell bent on money saving and downsizing they could not strengthen Remi's hand by even one player in January they will be the same if not worse in the summer and Remi Garde will go.  In his place will be put some McLeish/Lambert clone who will do as he is told and not make demands for money.

[Olof's Beard]

Depressing isn't the word is it? It's like being kicked in the knackers repeatedly. After starting so well, for her best player to randomly forearm smash his marker in the face is bordering on mental. I am sure he does indeed feel like crap today but so he should. He isn't Benteke, he's scored five goals including one penalty and what he did last night was one of the most brain dead acts I have seen in a long time.

It's impossible to judge the rest of the game although Lescott and Okore deserve a lot of praise again. Over the last month, Lescott has been as good as anything we have had in that position for years. You can see his experience, he looks unhurried, uses the ball well and never has to dive in. Fair play to him for turning his form around, albeit a little late.

We sat far too deep after going down to ten men. I agreed that we needed two banks of four, but Gabby needed to sit on Collins and Reid to at least give them something to think about. Fair play to Gabby, he looked decent early on and we looked like we were playing 10 yards further up the pitch thanks to his presence. A lot of criticism has come his way - most of it fair - but our best 45 minutes of attacking football came in one of only two games (to my memory) where he started up front - against Leicester. He hasn't played up front much in recent years because he is half the player Benteke he is, but the lone striker role was always his best. We should probably stick with him.

[fbriai]

football is about winning

we are not winning, we may have possesion stats, pass completion, whatever, but if you dont score all the tippy tappy football in areas that dont hurt the opposition is pointless

chuck a couple of academy kids in, just do something that isnt bringing richardson on

They showed a stat on BT Sports last night about pass completion. W.Ham had around 450. We had 177.
Admittedly, it was 11 v 10, but we are miles behind the decent teams.

I wouldn't read too much into those pass statistics.

While watching the Leicester game, I was struck by a statistic that appeared on the screen after about 40 minutes, which stated that we had already passed the ball ~80 times more than Leicester up to that point. Subsequently, interested in whether this was because Garde in particular had us playing the ball around more, I looked at the statistics for all of our matches this season. They were quite surprising:

[Sherwood]
BO (A) 1-0 (AV: Comp. 305; Tot. 378; 81%) (Opp.: Comp. 462; Tot. 545; 85%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -157; Tot. -167)
MU (H) 0-1 (AV: Comp. 350; Tot. 434; 81%) (Opp.: Comp. 455; Tot. 530; 86%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -105; Tot. -96)
CP (A) 1-2 (AV: Comp. 276; Tot. 349; 79%) (Opp.: Comp. 278; Tot. 346; 80%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -2; Tot. 3)
SU (H) 2-2 (AV: Comp. 437; Tot. 518; 84%) (Opp.: Comp. 234; Tot. 317; 74%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 203; Tot. 201)
LC (A) 2-3 (AV: Comp. 304; Tot. 402; 76%) (Opp.: Comp. 295; Tot. 383; 77%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 9; Tot. 19)
WB (H) 0-1 (AV: Comp. 343; Tot. 443; 77%) (Opp.: Comp. 219; Tot. 294; 74%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 124; Tot. 149)
LI (A) 2-3 (AV: Comp. 267; Tot. 332; 89%) (Opp.: Comp. 498; Tot. 562; 89%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -231; Tot. -230)
ST (H) 0-1 (AV: Comp. 398; Tot. 476; 84%) (Opp.: Comp. 296; Tot. 373; 79%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 102; Tot. 103)
CH (A) 0-2 (AV: Comp. 327; Tot. 418; 78%) (Opp.: Comp. 304; Tot. 406; 75%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 23; Tot. 12)
SW (H) 1-2 (AV: Comp. 269; Tot. 367; 73%) (Opp.: Comp. 313; Tot. 408; 77%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -44; Tot. -41)
[/Sherwood][MacDonald]
TH (A) 1-3 (AV: Comp. 217; Tot. 317; 68%) (Opp.: Comp. 428; Tot. 523; 82%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -211; Tot. -206)
[/MacDonald][Garde]
MC (H) 0-0 (AV: Comp. 318; Tot. 398; 80%) (Opp.: Comp. 488; Tot. 573; 85%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -170; Tot. -175)
EV (A) 0-4 (AV: Comp. 333; Tot. 395; 84%) (Opp.: Comp. 530; Tot. 603; 88%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -197; Tot. -208)
WA (H) 2-3 (AV: Comp. 400; Tot. 490; 82%) (Opp.: Comp. 157; Tot. 256; 61%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 243; Tot. 234)
SO (A) 1-1 (AV: Comp. 434; Tot. 535; 81%) (Opp.: Comp. 231; Tot. 319; 72%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 203; Tot. 216)
AR (H) 0-2 (AV: Comp. 355; Tot. 419; 85%) (Opp.: Comp. 428; Tot. 507; 84%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. -73; Tot. -88)
NU (A) 1-1 (AV: Comp. 303; Tot. 403; 75%) (Opp.: Comp. 246; Tot. 364; 68%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 57; Tot. 39)
WH (H) 1-1 (AV: Comp. 349; Tot. 423; 83%) (Opp.: Comp. 216; Tot. 299; 72%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 133; Tot. 124)
NC (A) 0-2 (AV: Comp. 293; Tot. 377; 78%) (Opp.: Comp. 247; Tot. 353; 70%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 46; Tot. 24)
SU (A) 1-3 (AV: Comp. 367; Tot. 464; 79%) (Opp.: Comp. 278; Tot. 375; 74%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 89; Tot. 89)
CP (H) 1-0 (AV: Comp. 339; Tot. 427; 79%) (Opp.: Comp. 312; Tot. 422; 74%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 27; Tot. 5)
LC (H) 1-1 (AV: Comp. 380; Tot. 489; 78%) (Opp.: Comp. 280; Tot. 391; 72%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 100; Tot. 98)
WB (A) 0-0 (AV: Comp. 348; Tot. 438; 79%) (Opp.: Comp. 182; Tot. 270; 67%) (AV-Opp. Diff.: Comp. 166; Tot. 168)

In the league, up to and including the West Brom game, and following Garde's first two games in charge, only the Arsenal have passed the ball around more than we have when playing against us. We passed some teams off the park, look at Watford for example, where we had 243 more completed passes than they did. Problem is, we still lost!

If they prove anything, these statistics suggest, at least to me, that we can actually knock the ball around quite nicely at times, but we took far too long to find some kind of defensive solidity and we are clearly lacking any kind of a cutting edge up front. They also show how Leicester aren't doing anything special, just playing the percentage balls into the channels and using their pace up front. It's working for them though!

[pbavfckuwait]

fbriai you can have all the possession in the world but if you have no cutting edge, it really does not matter, also what those stats do not show is where that possession is taking place. Teams are quite happy to allow us plenty of time on the ball, as they know we have neither the movement or the guile to get either through them or behind them.

[Olof's Beard]

I think those stats are also the reason that Remi has so often spoken about 'efficiency'. Watford were very efficient at Villa Park, four chances and three goals. We have to an extent sorted our efficiency issues in our own box by cutting out the huge number of silly mistakes, but creatively we are blunt and when we do get chances, we miss them. A striker and winger could have made all the difference.

[fbriai]

fbriai you can have all the possession in the world but if you have no cutting edge, it really does not matter, also what those stats do not show is where that possession is taking place. Teams are quite happy to allow us plenty of time on the ball, as they know we have neither the movement or the guile to get either through them or behind them.

Completely agree, PB. As much as anything, my point was that we shouldn't read too much into our poor pass statistics last night. As I said, we hugely out-passed Watford and still lost, while Leicester are clearly far more efficient than we are. In fact, we have out-passed the opposition in 75% of our matches under Garde, but have only won one of them.

Your point about where we have possession is clearly valid. It's no good having the ball in the middle of the park if you don't do anything with it.

[MattW]

Nadir. No transfers in, more bad luck with non-decisions, stupid self-destructive sending off, only attacking threat suspended for three games, and pretty much guaranteed relegation. Seriously deflating.

Garde's positivity post-match impressed me. Also pleased they fought on. But one single break in our favour would be nice.

Kind of wish the season was over and we could start preparing for the Championship. This purgatory is not fun. It could be eased by playing youngsters. I suppose he'll do that when he gives up.

[auntiesledd]

Unfortunately it is all too easy to work out the manner of Remi's betrayal.  When he came he was promised adequate funds.  He would not have come without that assurance. The board would not have invited him to come without that assurance.  Enter Steve Hollis, as Ads describes him perfectly our de facto administrator, and "adequate" funding to bring in the players Remi Garde wants becomes "within our projected budget parameters"

Yep, it sounds to me like yourself & Ads are bang on. Garde stitched-up by a bunch of self-serving scumbags undertaking their master's bidding. Frankly, I'm amazed Remi hasn't walked yet - but shirley it's just a matter of time. Happy fecking days.

[john e]

I was sitting with the enemy last night, right in front of where the fore arm smash took place,
 although I didn't see it I knew something had gone on as a whole load of WH fans went running down the isle in a rage
I knew then it was all over for the night, we cant score with 11 men let alone 10

the only positive for me was that the team did show some spirit, the back four looked as good as at any time this season, but sadly with a man down it was backs to the wall for 70 minutes and the inevitable goals eventually came

the biggest frustration when watching Villa is you just know we arnt going to score, it was the same on Saturday, bloody useless up front with nill attacking penetration

[pbavfckuwait]

But we will be ok John e as Hollis and Fox do not think we need anymore forwards and their the footballing brains down at Villa Park that Lerner listens to.

[MattW]

I'll start by saying I didn't rate Tim and wasn't sad to see him go ..however to me the board oversaw the mass recruitment in summer with some input from Tim but mainly based on stats and potential of players ( to add Greg Evans in the mail commentated that Payet from Spam would not have been on our rader as he was too old at 28) .

Tim couldn't mold the players into a team and created a poor atmosphere so was binned.They saw Remi as a good option , he would know the french players and had experience working within a budget. Unfortuantly the poor start with eroded squad confidence, lose of Amavi and fundamentaly just a not good enough squad was too much for him to turn round.So they took the decision to not spend more money after bad and spin the wheel of getting back promoted.

In this plan they miss that in doing this they have hung Remi out to dry , have left the players in no doubt the board has no confidence in them and lost any remaining good will with the fans.They have sentenced the club to a long 15 games ( 14 after tonight of slow death in the public glare)  and left Remi to front up to the media to explain the clubs decision to give up.

The team until Ayews moment of madness where on top , I think Gabbys movement was looking effective with Ayew and we had some nice passing but it all went out the window with the red card.The rest of the game was a 73 min preview of the rest of the season the team struggling against and inevetiable result ,trying hard but lacking the quality.

Excellent analysis, in my opinion.

Agree, right on. And anyone with a bit of nous, dealing with the issue on the merits, could have worked that out.

[oswald funkletrumpet]

Firstly, Ayew what a bellend. Provoked or not there is no excuse for that, he cost us any chance we had in the game. Similarly his impending suspension has probably put the final nail in the coffin on the season.We were doing ok until then, were on the front foot and were on top. Afterwards they defended well but it is a massive ask to play three quarters of a game with ten men.

Sacking Garde wold be madness I just after hope he doesn't take matters into his own hands. I dread to think who they would see as a suitable replacement. The people who should be scanning the situations vacant column are those dealing with transfers after they failed so miserably in January.

I haven't read most of this thread, but who on earth is advocating sacking Garde?! He is the one positive of this season at the moment. People need to look beyond the 1 win in 13 games or whatever it is, because we have an absolutely awful squad and the fact we're actually competing in games is quite impressive. We actually look like an organised unit now and that is no mean feat. Garde staying is absolutely critical to our future, and I hope the fucking idiots in charge of our club realise this and give him assurances of backing in the summer.

Garde has been mugged off no question

As far as the organised unit bit goes I don't understand

Pre Garde:
Played 11, won 1, drawn 1 lost 9, For 11 against 20 GD-9


With Garde
Played 13, won 1, drawn 6 lost 6, for 9 against 21 GD-12


Turned a few defeats into draws, hasn't won any more games and we still can't score

D minus

[Olof's Beard]

Firstly, Ayew what a bellend. Provoked or not there is no excuse for that, he cost us any chance we had in the game. Similarly his impending suspension has probably put the final nail in the coffin on the season.We were doing ok until then, were on the front foot and were on top. Afterwards they defended well but it is a massive ask to play three quarters of a game with ten men.

Sacking Garde wold be madness I just after hope he doesn't take matters into his own hands. I dread to think who they would see as a suitable replacement. The people who should be scanning the situations vacant column are those dealing with transfers after they failed so miserably in January.

I haven't read most of this thread, but who on earth is advocating sacking Garde?! He is the one positive of this season at the moment. People need to look beyond the 1 win in 13 games or whatever it is, because we have an absolutely awful squad and the fact we're actually competing in games is quite impressive. We actually look like an organised unit now and that is no mean feat. Garde staying is absolutely critical to our future, and I hope the fucking idiots in charge of our club realise this and give him assurances of backing in the summer.

Garde has been mugged off no question

As far as the organised unit bit goes I don't understand

Pre Garde:
Played 11, won 1, drawn 1 lost 9, For 11 against 20 GD-9


With Garde
Played 13, won 1, drawn 6 lost 6, for 9 against 21 GD-12


Turned a few defeats into draws, hasn't won any more games and we still can't score

D minus

Organising them was part 1 of the recovery because make no mistake, we were a shambles before he came in. No consistency of playing style, formation or personnel and a defence made from porcelain. He had to concentrate on sorting that out first and he did - hence why we turned losses to draws. He plugged the leaks, so we stop conceding with such regularity.

The next stage is to increase the threat going forward. That's what would turn the draws to wins, but he clearly needs new personnel to do that. By turning the losses to draws I think he had earned the right to bring in a couple of players who might just turn the draws into victories, but our new Chairman clearly didn't agree.

[fbriai]

That's the most frustrating thing about this season. Apart from Everton away, we haven't been absolutely hammered in the league. With just a couple more decent players we could easily, as you say, have turned a few of those defeats into draws and draws into wins.

[ROBBO]

There's a reason we can't score and it has nothing to do with the manager it's to do with the meat heads that relied on a player who had half a decent season in a Championship side.