Relegation and rebuilding

[KevinGage]

Watched the league show today.  Its dog eat dog down there with lots of big clubs scrapping it out. Im worried VP will become another great away day for a new set of clubs. Being centrally located,  thered be big away followings and we'd be the biggest scalp. Our current lambs wouldnt stand a chance

We will get bummed in that division.

Genuine horror show, like the greenhouse scene in Scum.

A team that has been as dreadful as we have been for the past four years isn't going to suddenly start winning the 20+ games it is needed to get out of that league.

[Malandro]

As much as they didn't fit into our plans. I regret Lowton and Weimann leaving now.

Lowton can't get in the Burnley team and Weimann has 3 goals. These aren't the players you are looking for, move along.

I'm not sure about Lowton, but my brother-in-law says Andi has done well considering he's had to make do on the wing.  But like you say - we've moved on.

[aj2k77]

We actually upgraded on a player in the summer, the Weimann to Ayew transfer has been the one shining light. If only it wasn't massively offset by Benteke to pantomime horse.

[tomd2103]

One thing O'Neil did was establish a means to an end. He brought pace into the side, height and somebody capable of delivering the ball. He opined that if you have ten dead ball opportunities per game then they shouldn't be wasted. If you can go back to front very quickly, then the opposition has to sacrifice territory. If you're strong out wide, then you need to be good in the air. We had a style, which at home could be blunted, but nonetheless was effective.

We've had no discernable means since. We've spent a lot of money, but it's a scattergun approach and a hotchpotch mesh of different managers half baked ideas.

We need to address this for next season and we should start now.

The Championship is poor quality. Watch the games on Sky and see for yourself. The pace isn't any quicker, it'd just more frenetic because there is less quality on the ball. The best sides always come up. When they say it's a tough league, they mean it's a poor one blunt of quality.

We will be the biggest club down there, with the biggest wage budget and likely one of the biggest transfer budgets too, depending on who joins us in the drop. The name Aston Villa holds currency, as would Newcastle, in a way Hull or QPR never will. Use this financial and physical size advantage to target players.

The way I see it, Gestede offers very little outside the box. He's a championship player and he bagged 20 which tells you a lot. Amavi and Ayew have excellent delivery, but we are short up front in this league and we'd be short in most.  A few pages back somebody categorised the two characteristics I think the side should have to come back up; pace and power. Flood the forward areas with pace, control territory for set pieces or crosses and Gestede will actually be an asset.

We need more mobility though and a couple of quick forwards would be ideal. I am not the best at examples, but the Palace lad we were linked with; quick and direct, somebody to get the opposition to face their own goal more often than not and get squared up. That would at least be a second dimension to our attacking play.

Ayew may well get poached but it won't be cheap. If he stays I would suggest one fast winger, if he goes, then two. Again, as examples, Hoillet, Philips,  Puncheon, players of that ilk with experience of the league would be useful. Added I to Sinclair, whose delivery I don't think is good enough for this league, I think we'd force a lot of sides to sit very deep and away from home let us go back to front like the ONeill days. Sinclair has done well in that league before and would weigh in with goals. Equally, Traore would be an asset and you'd have four quick wide men to get you through a long season. We would also have greater capacity given our turnover (albeit reduced) and size under the rules to put together  forward options like that.

Gil and Grealish I think we'd keep and may be able to provide guile and flair but only if the platform behind them is provided. Sanchez is powerful enough, but isn't good enough and cannot be trusted to cover the back four. We need a big horrible git in there to really provide steel to the spine. Jedinak is your typical horrible Aussie and I'd welcome him, or somebody like him. That type of player would complement Veretout and his industry. We are too soft and easy to defend against, sides should find it physically difficult first and foremost to.play against us; pace and power are a must to let the extra quality we have flourish.

You can take a broom to the back five. Amavi I like, Okore if he could string games together offers potential, but the rest are garbage.

I agree with that analysis and for an example, we only have to look at the Blues game earlier in the season. Blues were organised and compact, but Gray aside, had very little quality in the final third.  They also got ripped apart by pace out wide at times, so like you have said above, all the clues are there. 

If he stays and has the right attitude, Ayew should be too good for teams at that level and I would look at adding a similar paced player on the other side (it ight be worth loaning Traore out for a season).  I think Grealish and Gil would be good in that league, but we would need a couple of solid midfielders to hive us that base behind them, with Veretout hopefully staying as well.  The back four would need rebuilding with a new keeper also coming in.

We need a new striker whatever happens and would like to see Gestede limited to last 20 minute cameos at most.

[ROBBO]

Can't see Benteke lasting very long at Pool, still getting goals but looks a shadow of his best, Collins of all players dominated him on Saturday.

[russon]

As much as they didn't fit into our plans. I regret Lowton and Weimann leaving now.

Don't make me laugh. Both crap and in Weimann's case utterly so. Carlos Cuellar's reputation improved with every game he didn't play for us but Weimann's is irrecoverable (not that he had one to start with).

[supertom]

Can't see Benteke lasting very long at Pool, still getting goals but looks a shadow of his best, Collins of all players dominated him on Saturday.

The fans haven't taken to him either. He scores goals but they expect more here. Trouble with Benteke is, he's a lazy player. He's not going to do much unless he's having one of his fired up games. He may well have a decent scoring record but a bunch of feck stains like Liverpool, who think they should be pushing for the title every year, want to see something else aside from the goals. You got that with Suarez and to be fair to Sturridge, when he actually can play, he works hard too.
Granted Michael Owen wasnt renowned for his work rate but he had the advantage of coming through their ranks as a kid and any one half decent coming through the youths at Liverpool will have their fans tugging themselves raw. And his goal record there was exceptional.

I think they'll sell Benteke this summer or next Jan. He'll leave with a fairly decent goal return but not too much sadness from their fans. He just doesn't quite fit there. He was more suited to us where he could be our superstar. We could (just about) forgive long lean spells in front of goal and games where he couldn't be bothered or sulked because he'd produce moments of brilliance.

I think he'll do well in Italy, France or Spain, maybe Germany. You can perhaps get away with being a bit more mercurial. Failing that he drops down to a smaller club and becomes a big fish in a small pond again, but he's got enough talent to be at a CL club. Probably not enough to be a top four Premiership striker though, because he's too erratic.

[Sidvillan]

This is the first forum I have ever joined !!!! Like so many Villa Fans I hope that this will be an outlet for my extreme depression over the state of AVFC and prove to be at least a little therapeutic. I have supported the Villa for some 45 years and was a season ticket holder till moving to Devon 34 years ago. I feel greatly for you fans who attend the games week in and week out and have the greatest respect for your loyalty at this most depressing time. It does seem a long time ago when Villa consistently played attractive, attacking and skilful football.

I realise that I am fairly ignorant with regards to the current set up at the Club so please make allowances for that. I would appreciate answers to the following questions:
1. Was Nigel Pearson ever interviewed for the manager's role ?
2. Do we have any quality U21's who could gradually be brought into the first team during the rest of this season ?
3. Are there any signs that Garde is bringing more organisation into the team on the pitch?
4. So we get relegated, are there any positives for us to hang on to at the moment ?
5. Is it conceivable that we will do a Leeds?
6. Now and in the Championship we will need a manager who can get players welded into a real team and get them playing consistently to the best of their ability and beyond as did my hero Brian Clough and currently Eddie Howe - although early days, are there any indications that Garde will fit the bill ?

[Big Dick Edwards]

If we all accept the club is going down we can actually use this miserable episode positively. We first have to be sure that Garde is going to be our manager next season. He's saying the right things at least. In which case he should recall all of our players who are out on loan (Baker, Bennett, Donacien etc) if legally able and he should get a good look at them for the rest of the season so he can decide who will be of use next season or not. He should also try and sell any player this month who 1) thinks they're too good to play for us next season, or 2)any player who he has seen enough of in training to know won't have the desire to fight for his footballing life in The Championship. If that means releasing Ayew, Traore, Gil, Veretout and Richards this month, so be it. A collection of Billy Big Bollocks will be of no use to us next August. The fact that Amavi is injured for the rest of this season suggests he will be with us next season if he likes it or not.
Come May we will then be able to identify targets to add to the squad and move forward. We already have a proven striker at Championship level in Gestede, and I'd partner him with Rickie Lambert, another proven scorer at that level.

[Ads]

Tomd, I think the Noses game was very telling. Ayew's movement second half ripped them apart and couldn't live with our quick passing. They're pushing for promotion and offered nothing.

I get that there is no confidence at the moment, but I just cannot see why people think we will drop through the leagues. My previous post wasn't anything particularly novel, but highlighted a way and means of taking on that league and going for the title, which has to be the aim.

Financially, we are significantly stronger than any of the teams down there, so we will be capable of squad renewal to buy the firepower necessary.

The defence needs a lot of work and I think we should be aiming for a mixture of big, physical and experienced championship centre half with a blend of younger players capable of carrying on their development after promotion.

I'd start the work now. Next year's keeper, holding midfielder and centre half. If there are loan deals to be done then have a go, but I think we need to be bigger, stronger (dare I say snide) and faster. With players like Veretout, Amavi, Ayew supplemented by a new spine, then the flair players like Grealish, Gil and Traore will have a big impact. Without wishing to labour the point, Sinclair and Gestede were big successes in that league, even poor players like Westwood may have a limited role to offer.

[tomd2103]

Tomd, I think the Noses game was very telling. Ayew's movement second half ripped them apart and couldn't live with our quick passing. They're pushing for promotion and offered nothing.

I get that there is no confidence at the moment, but I just cannot see why people think we will drop through the leagues. My previous post wasn't anything particularly novel, but highlighted a way and means of taking on that league and going for the title, which has to be the aim.

Financially, we are significantly stronger than any of the teams down there, so we will be capable of squad renewal to buy the firepower necessary.

The defence needs a lot of work and I think we should be aiming for a mixture of big, physical and experienced championship centre half with a blend of younger players capable of carrying on their development after promotion.

I'd start the work now. Next year's keeper, holding midfielder and centre half. If there are loan deals to be done then have a go, but I think we need to be bigger, stronger (dare I say snide) and faster. With players like Veretout, Amavi, Ayew supplemented by a new spine, then the flair players like Grealish, Gil and Traore will have a big impact. Without wishing to labour the point, Sinclair and Gestede were big successes in that league, even poor players like Westwood may have a limited role to offer.

Couldn't agree more with that Ads, though I'm not sure about bringing in players now with next season in mind.  If we bring in players and they improve the side then we could finish the season with some momentum and take it into next season.  On the flip side, we could bring players in and they get dragged into the current malaise and end up shot to pieces as well.  I would prefer a couple of quality loans to the end of the season who could lift the spirits of the better players already at the club and revisit the transfer market in the summer.

[brontebilly]

Can't see Benteke lasting very long at Pool, still getting goals but looks a shadow of his best, Collins of all players dominated him on Saturday.

Collins tore Benteke a new one towards the back end of last season too

Keeping Dunne and selling Collins was a bad move from Lambert

Collins would a handy signing for us next season, doesnt get beaten in the air

[Risso]

Tomd, I think the Noses game was very telling. Ayew's movement second half ripped them apart and couldn't live with our quick passing. They're pushing for promotion and offered nothing.

I get that there is no confidence at the moment, but I just cannot see why people think we will drop through the leagues. My previous post wasn't anything particularly novel, but highlighted a way and means of taking on that league and going for the title, which has to be the aim.

Financially, we are significantly stronger than any of the teams down there, so we will be capable of squad renewal to buy the firepower necessary.

The defence needs a lot of work and I think we should be aiming for a mixture of big, physical and experienced championship centre half with a blend of younger players capable of carrying on their development after promotion.

I'd start the work now. Next year's keeper, holding midfielder and centre half. If there are loan deals to be done then have a go, but I think we need to be bigger, stronger (dare I say snide) and faster. With players like Veretout, Amavi, Ayew supplemented by a new spine, then the flair players like Grealish, Gil and Traore will have a big impact. Without wishing to labour the point, Sinclair and Gestede were big successes in that league, even poor players like Westwood may have a limited role to offer.

How are we financially stronger?  Fox has said that Lerner is still propping up the club, and this year we largely spent what we recouped on Benteke and Delph.  When we go down, I think you'll see things start to get quite bleak on the financial front.  Other than possibly Ayew, we don't have any saleable assets really.

[Des Little]

I've been thinking this for a while so I'll say it and run for cover. Next year we are going to need both nous and raw talent to get us anywhere near the play offs. In order to address the former, would it be completely remiss to look at the possibility of asking Gareth Barry to come back and sit in the middle (not literally) and guide the hopefully younger, less experienced team through the minefield that is the Championship? From what I can see, none of the current mob seem to have the required brains to do such a thing.

[sickbeggar]

I'm not too worried really. We have a lot of decent championship level players. We're like that horse that gets entered into the Derby and finishes last but is then dropped down in class and romps away with it - Not that we'll run away with it with the current squad but a good showing with a few players added isn't impossible

Now we know we'll lose the likes of N'zogbia Cole? a few more out of contract hopefully. Should free up some wages at least

Then you got the possible sells. Probably Ayew, a few of the other guys like gil or Traore who still have a value back in their home countries any maybe won't suit the championship or a new manager. May attract some interest for some of the other English players depending on how much their wages reduced for relegation clauses but really i wouldn't be worried about selling any of them

Likewise i wouldn't be too worried about who we keep. Think the defence would do okay in Championship with a bit of strengthening. I'd like Guzan and bacuna replaced though.  A couple of experienced faces in midfield and up front the likes of Gestade can do it in the Championship if you play to his strengths. If Garde is still here i can see him being flogged but we still need a striker or two even if he stays.


Either way with a bit of confidence returning, and 4 or 5 players paid for by the departures we'll be there or thereabout's imho