Relegation and rebuilding

[oldhill_avfc]

Tomd, I think the Noses game was very telling. Ayew's movement second half ripped them apart and couldn't live with our quick passing. They're pushing for promotion and offered nothing.

I get that there is no confidence at the moment, but I just cannot see why people think we will drop through the leagues. My previous post wasn't anything particularly novel, but highlighted a way and means of taking on that league and going for the title, which has to be the aim.

Financially, we are significantly stronger than any of the teams down there, so we will be capable of squad renewal to buy the firepower necessary.

The defence needs a lot of work and I think we should be aiming for a mixture of big, physical and experienced championship centre half with a blend of younger players capable of carrying on their development after promotion.

I'd start the work now. Next year's keeper, holding midfielder and centre half. If there are loan deals to be done then have a go, but I think we need to be bigger, stronger (dare I say snide) and faster. With players like Veretout, Amavi, Ayew supplemented by a new spine, then the flair players like Grealish, Gil and Traore will have a big impact. Without wishing to labour the point, Sinclair and Gestede were big successes in that league, even poor players like Westwood may have a limited role to offer.

I agree with much of this and your previous analysis.  However, if we do retain players like Sinclair, Gestede and Westwood then has to be only for the specific purpose of getting us promoted.  They're clearly not good enough for the premiership and if they're anywhere near a promoted squad then we'll undoubtedly struggle yet again.

[oldhill_avfc]

All three owners are spectacular in their ineptitude. How are they billionaires? They should be playing Wonderwall badly outside the back of Rackhams.

The Championship is utter gash though. Which helps. I couldn't quite believe how poor until I took a recent interest, even Derby are bilge.

We've beaten Bournemouth twice this year, so we know they're pap too and they won the bloody thing.

I'd be absolutely amazed if there weren't relegation clauses since we've evidently been preparing for this eventualiy for five years now.

We managed to scrape home against Bournemouth in both games.  The first when we had a much better team than now.  If that's the standard needed to win the Championship we are a longway off.

[tomd2103]

Whilst I recognise the risks of being sucked down and down, I actually think we have a great opportunity to bounce back in style. There haven't been too many Villa-sized clubs relegated in recent years. Many of the top championship players and quite a few Premier league players with the attributes to succeed in the Championship would be delighted to join us. If we get the right mix we could storm that league next year and restore our credibility and reputation. But the allure of signing for the Villa will soon wear off if we stay down for more than one season.

For what its worth, and I know this has been discussed on another thread, I'd genuinely love to win the Championship. A season of swatting teams aside and putting them in their place would be far more enjoyable than anything we've seen over the last 4 years at VP.

Newcastle stormed the championship after they were relegated. Lerner copies Ashley's model to some extent (buy cheap continental players and hopefully sell a few for large profit) which has resulted in Newcastle not pushing on and likely to go down with us. I don't relish that long term prospect.

Newcastle's problem was that they bought a load of foreign players who just saw them as a one season stepping stone.  Remember Cisse's first season in English football?  He was brilliant, yet when the move to Arsenal or Manchester United didn't materialise that summer, the interest in playing for Newcastle vanished.  You might be able to get away with that if you have one player behaving like that, but when it is a large number of the team then you've got serious problems.   

[NeilH]

I’ve seen enough in spits and spots to suggest that if we show any of the potential we have an can keep the core of our talent, whilst bombing out those stealing a living from us, we’ll pi** the division. Of course, this is based on the coaching teams’ ability to get the team playing more to its potential and to cut out the mistakes; this will be the priority for Garde from now until August.

[peter w]

All three owners are spectacular in their ineptitude. How are they billionaires? They should be playing Wonderwall badly outside the back of Rackhams.

Agreed that all three are badly run and are being shamed by clubs like Watford, Leicester and Southampton. I still think Sunderland and Newcastle would be better equipped than us to get their house in order in the championship. Both have more experience of recent relegations than we have and we should remember that our owner is absent/distant as well as incompetent.

Does Ellis Short go to many Sunderland matches?

No idea. Does he?

[Ads]

All three owners are spectacular in their ineptitude. How are they billionaires? They should be playing Wonderwall badly outside the back of Rackhams.

The Championship is utter gash though. Which helps. I couldn't quite believe how poor until I took a recent interest, even Derby are bilge.

We've beaten Bournemouth twice this year, so we know they're pap too and they won the bloody thing.

I'd be absolutely amazed if there weren't relegation clauses since we've evidently been preparing for this eventualiy for five years now.

We managed to scrape home against Bournemouth in both games.  The first when we had a much better team than now.  If that's the standard needed to win the Championship we are a longway off.

We beat them twice and deservedly so in both games. They were the best side in the Championship. It doesn't mean we will automatically romp the league, but its a bell weather that shows the quality isn't very good.

I certainly agree with your other post though that Westwood, Sinclair etc may have a use in the Championship, but agree that it should go no further following promotion.

[eddiemunster]

Although I agree with most of Ads comments under the above subject, I cannot agree with the following;
We will be the biggest club down there, with the biggest wage budget and likely one of the biggest transfer budgets too, depending on who joins us in the drop. The name Aston Villa holds currency, as would Newcastle, in a way Hull or QPR never will. Use this financial and physical size advantage to target players.
Yes we will probably have the biggest wage budget, unfortunately it will be used up paying the weekly wages to the turgid shite that we have on the books at the moment.
Sorry mate, but our name holds no currency in targeting players, paying well over the odds does.

[Ads]

We're a big club, with a big name in this league. In the Championship, that counts further. If your a good player at say MK Dons and you're looking to move in the summer to a bigger club in the division. If Aston Villa are interested, then there is a good chance you'd jump through hoops to go there, in a way that you wouldn't for Hull, QPR or any of the other small teams that bob up and down in the leagues.

The same would apply to Newcastle and to a lesser extent Sunderland should they join us.

In respect of the wage issues, apart from Gabby, I cannot think of any big earners who contribute nothing being left. The wage eating non-providers like N'Zogbia, Cole, Senderos and Richardson will be gone. Richards may well leave, although he does play, so it would only be Gabby left unless I am mistaken.

[tomd2103]

We're a big club, with a big name in this league. In the Championship, that counts further. If your a good player at say MK Dons and you're looking to move in the summer to a bigger club in the division. If Aston Villa are interested, then there is a good chance you'd jump through hoops to go there, in a way that you wouldn't for Hull, QPR or any of the other small teams that bob up and down in the leagues.

The same would apply to Newcastle and to a lesser extent Sunderland should they join us.

In respect of the wage issues, apart from Gabby, I cannot think of any big earners who contribute nothing being left. The wage eating non-providers like N'Zogbia, Cole, Senderos and Richardson will be gone. Richards may well leave, although he does play, so it would only be Gabby left unless I am mistaken.

As we have seen, it is much harder said than done, but I would want a proper clearout.  I would like to see the following gone by or at the end of the season:

Guzan
Hutton
Lescott
Senderos
Baker
Richardson
Cole
Westwood
Sinclair
Agbonlahor
Kozak
N'Zogbia

I don't rate Gestede at all, but I think he could be useful in Championship, albeit in a cameo role.  I would say to the above who are not out of contract in the summer that they are never going to play for the Villa again so can go ahead and find another club.  Some of them wouldn't, so would have to be completely taken out of the picture. 

Edit - I would add Sanchez to the above list as well. 

[levico]

I think being the biggest name in the Championship is our biggest challenge.

Every match we play will be against opposition determined to claim our scalp. As things stand we don't have the players up for kind of fight.

[NeilH]

I think being the biggest name in the Championship is our biggest challenge.

Every match we play will be against opposition determined to claim our scalp. As things stand we don't have the players up for kind of fight.

'twas the case last time around and we got out at the first time of trying. I see no difference this time around. Both Newcastle and West Ham managed it and they are equally as big as us. If we can sort out the errors that are plaguing us right now and bomb out the trash, we'll walk the league.

[martin o`who??]

Rebuilding? - with what exactly, an absentee chairman, a back room staff poundland could out-manoeuvre, a manager who was at best a gamble and the worst crop of players in the clubs recent history - hardly the building blocks of a New golden-age for the club I'd wager.

[tomd2103]

I think being the biggest name in the Championship is our biggest challenge.

Every match we play will be against opposition determined to claim our scalp. As things stand we don't have the players up for kind of fight.

'twas the case last time around and we got out at the first time of trying. I see no difference this time around. Both Newcastle and West Ham managed it and they are equally as big as us. If we can sort out the errors that are plaguing us right now and bomb out the trash, we'll walk the league.

Wash your mouth out!!

[SamTheMouse]

Logic dictates that we're a big club and should piss the Championship next season.

However, the ability of the utter morons in charge of us to fuck everything up spectacularly badly cannot be underestimated.

[not3bad]

As we have seen, it is much harder said than done, but I would want a proper clearout.  I would like to see the following gone by or at the end of the season:

Guzan
Hutton
Lescott
Senderos
Baker
Richardson
Cole
Westwood
Sinclair
Agbonlahor
Kozak
N'Zogbia

From what I gather they are trying to get rid of the last 3 on that list now.