MO'N on Goals on Sunday

[tomd2103]

But Lee, if Champions League Football was the mandate, I'm struggling to see how Marlon Harewood and Zat Knight, amongst many others, were the kind of player to take us there.  Good enough to come second in the "sub-league" outside the big four, which was a sea of mediocrity, but in my view there was never serious chance of them making the CL.  And even if we had scraped 4th, I couldn't have seen us even getting through the qualifier at time when we were being comfortably beaten by the likes of Rapid Vienna.   

I agree. I think he made some shit signings, in fact I think he totally blew the fantastic work he did in the first 18 months.
He'd turned the juggernaught around with relatively little outlay, a few really good deals (Petrov, Young, Carew) on key players that improved the team, and then suddenly all we seem to do is buy loads of squad fillers to sit in behind his favourite 11.

No, I think it was doomed to failure, but I do recognise two things.

1: He did a good job in the first place. There are many, many managers out there that would have fucked up the opportunity he was given.

2: The owner was massively culpable. When he was making us that big fancy slap up meal, he neglected to tell us that was the last of the food for a month.

Agree.  I just think he reached the end of his managerial shelf life when he was with us.  The game had moved on and he was left behind.  His time at Sunderland just confirmed that.  I still think to this day that he timed his departure to cause maximum disruption and that it sent us spinning into a downward spiral from which we are yet to recover. 

[ktvillan]

But Lee, if Champions League Football was the mandate, I'm struggling to see how Marlon Harewood and Zat Knight, amongst many others, were the kind of player to take us there.  Good enough to come second in the "sub-league" outside the big four, which was a sea of mediocrity, but in my view there was never serious chance of them making the CL.  And even if we had scraped 4th, I couldn't have seen us even getting through the qualifier at time when we were being comfortably beaten by the likes of Rapid Vienna.   

I agree. I think he made some shit signings, in fact I think he totally blew the fantastic work he did in the first 18 months.
He'd turned the juggernaught around with relatively little outlay, a few really good deals (Petrov, Young, Carew) on key players that improved the team, and then suddenly all we seem to do is buy loads of squad fillers to sit in behind his favourite 11.

No, I think it was doomed to failure, but I do recognise two things.

1: He did a good job in the first place. There are many, many managers out there that would have fucked up the opportunity he was given.

2: The owner was massively culpable. When he was making us that big fancy slap up meal, he neglected to tell us that was the last of the food for a month.

Agree.  I just think he reached the end of his managerial shelf life when he was with us.  The game had moved on and he was left behind.  His time at Sunderland just confirmed that.  I still think to this day that he timed his departure to cause maximum disruption and that it sent us spinning into a downward spiral from which we are yet to recover. 

I'd agree the first 18 months were full of promise, he'd turned us around and made a few very good signings.  He'd established a platform and I looked forward with relish to the transfer window where I was optimistic he would sign the 3 or 4 players that would take us to the next level.   And we got Harewood.  And Knight.  And I knew right then that this bloke was not going to take us any further than that.  And so it proved.

[Chris Harte]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Beyond Houllier, well, the plot was lost. Not necessarily just with first team manager appointments.

[ktvillan]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

[LeeB]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

[OzVilla]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

This with great big bells on.

Plenty of us predicted Houlier would struggle with health issues, we weren't all Nostradamus.  A massive missed opportunity due to very poor research and decision making.  And what's particularly galling is their decision making didn't get any better afterwards.

[tomd2103]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Beyond Houllier, well, the plot was lost. Not necessarily just with first team manager appointments.

Although I think O'Neill's departure was the catalyst for what has followed, I agree Chris that the situation should have been recoverable.  Although I think the investment hasn't been of the level it was under O'Neill since his departure, it certainly has been enough for us not to be in the position we are in now. 

[Meanwood Villa]

Is it just me who wishes we'd kept up the "unsustainable" levels of spending so we might have a decent team?

[dave.woodhall]

Is it just me who wishes we'd kept up the "unsustainable" levels of spending so we might have a decent team?

The clue's in the word 'unsustainable'.

[Meanwood Villa]

Is it just me who wishes we'd kept up the "unsustainable" levels of spending so we might have a decent team?

The clue's in the word 'unsustainable'.

Unsustainable for who? Randy's still a billionaire isn't he and this was pre the rigging of financial fair play. The way I see it is if we'd spent more on wages since O'Neill left we wouldn't be the worst team in the league.

[dave.woodhall]

Is it just me who wishes we'd kept up the "unsustainable" levels of spending so we might have a decent team?

The clue's in the word 'unsustainable'.

Unsustainable for who? Randy's still a billionaire isn't he and this was pre the rigging of financial fair play. The way I see it is if we'd spent more on wages since O'Neill left we wouldn't be the worst team in the league.

How many more hundreds of millions of pounds would you like him to have put in, and how would we have paid it back?

[OzVilla]

It's not necessarily the amounts spent it's the way it's been spent that's the issue.  It's been the issue to differing degrees since Randy first opened his chequebook.

[Meanwood Villa]

Is it just me who wishes we'd kept up the "unsustainable" levels of spending so we might have a decent team?

The clue's in the word 'unsustainable'.

Unsustainable for who? Randy's still a billionaire isn't he and this was pre the rigging of financial fair play. The way I see it is if we'd spent more on wages since O'Neill left we wouldn't be the worst team in the league.

How many more hundreds of millions of pounds would you like him to have put in, and how would we have paid it back?

How many hundreds of millions of pounds did he think it would take to be a suitable custodian of the club when he bought us? Why would we have to pay it back? I get the criticism of O'Neill wasting money but the subsequent pulling of the plug is what's left us where we are now. Sad as it is, the game's all about money. Our owner's cut the budget and as a direct result we're shite. Personally I'd rather he'd have put shitloads of money in and we were good. Harsh on a personal level perhaps but frankly all I'm interested in with Randy is his wallet.

[Chris Smith]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

It's all 'ifs and buts' though isn't it. If we have learned anything from the past few years is that we could always find a new way to fuck up.

Garde seems to be made of the right stuff and I think  Fox might be getting a proper structure in place to support him but, based on recent experience, would anyone be in the least surprised if they both turn out to be completely useless?

[themossman]

While the timing of O'Neill's departure was spiteful, we shouldn't be blaming that on our current problems. It was in 2010.

The correct appointments since would have made the situation recoverable. FWIW I think Houllier would have proved to be the correct appointment had his health not let him down.

Me too. The real disaster was the lunacy of replacing him with TSM.  Soild downhill ever since.

Houllier was the wrong appointment because of his health issues. It didn't suddenly crop up.

If we'd have got someone with a similar profile abroad, and not insisted on bloody "premier league experience", we might have had a bloody chance.

Correct. It was a gamble, on our future competitiveness as a premier league team. The more I think about it the more gambles there have been under this regime. That houllier's health will hold, that the fans will accept mcleish, that deals can be done in the last year of a player's contract. Solskjær would have been a punt. Replacing your prize assets with unproven French players has been a disastrous punt. Sherwood, garde. This era has been characterised by a perverse will to take the left field option and it's fucked us.

Edit - of course, to bring it back to MON, it all started with a gamble, with the front loaded investment and lack of proper accountability when he was first in place. This all makes the safe stewardship stuff sound pretty hollow.