January 2016 - Transfer Rumours, Speculation & Suggestions

[ciggiesnbeer]

MON was not my fave manager but he is in no way responsible for the club not signing anyone so far this window.

[glasses]

isn't Naismith exactly the type of mad, overpriced signing MON would have made and what put us in this mess in the first place?

O'Neill is responsible for us being bottom of the league? Ha!

No. But it's the kind of signing that he made repeatedly that ultimately started this whole shitstorm. Beye, Shorey, L. Young for example.

Our current league position has nothing to do with him directly.
Given that during his tenure he wouldn't countenance any other influence within the club in addition to manager he was de-facto CEO, regardless of any other names floating about, until the day Faulkner called him out. That makes him partly responsible for the shitty, unsustainable state our finances were in.
How we dealt with the mess is another story, but he certainly had a role in kickstarting all of this.

Charles N'zogbia, Shay Given, Darren Bent, Jean II Makoun, Ron Vlaar. As has been said over the last few weeks. We've had money to spend, it's been spent appallingly by poor managers. How much value did we get from the above on the pitch and in terms of transfer return?

It's ludicrous to even mention MON 5 years after he left as someone to blame. That we haven't got over it is more the club's problem than his. We finished 9th, sold two of the three best players in the squad the summer after he left. Since he left, only Benteke has been bought that has anywhere near wiped his face in terms of fee received and return on the pitch. None of the others have, or are likely too.

[old man villa fan]

isn't Naismith exactly the type of mad, overpriced signing MON would have made and what put us in this mess in the first place?

O'Neill is responsible for us being bottom of the league? Ha!

No. But it's the kind of signing that he made repeatedly that ultimately started this whole shitstorm. Beye, Shorey, L. Young for example.

Our current league position has nothing to do with him directly.
Given that during his tenure he wouldn't countenance any other influence within the club in addition to manager he was de-facto CEO, regardless of any other names floating about, until the day Faulkner called him out. That makes him partly responsible for the shitty, unsustainable state our finances were in.
How we dealt with the mess is another story, but he certainly had a role in kickstarting all of this.

Charles N'zogbia, Shay Given, Darren Bent, Jean II Makoun, Ron Vlaar. As has been said over the last few weeks. We've had money to spend, it's been spent appallingly by poor managers. How much value did we get from the above on the pitch and in terms of transfer return?

It's ludicrous to even mention MON 5 years after he left as someone to blame. That we haven't got over it is more the club's problem than his. We finished 9th, sold two of the three best players in the squad the summer after he left. Since he left, only Benteke has been bought that has anywhere near wiped his face in terms of fee received and return on the pitch. None of the others have, or are likely too.

The reason why we haven't been able to sign good established PL players (other than Bent) over the last 5 years is because of the wages legacy left by MON which just about crippled us.

[curiousorange]

I suspect that many were along the right lines when they claimed we should plan for the Championship - that seems to be how the club see our chances. We're nine points from safety, which is doable if not likely, but there hasn't been much enthusiasm to try and cut that gap by doing anything other than letting Garde get on with it with what he has. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that the signing policy is so short-term that any additions won't be joining us on our trips to the Banks's and the Sty.

[glasses]

Really? Why did we pay Shay given circa 60k a week for 5 years then? Darren Bent and Charles N'zogbia somewhere in the same region? We're they not established premier league players at the time?

[Villa in Denmark]

isn't Naismith exactly the type of mad, overpriced signing MON would have made and what put us in this mess in the first place?

O'Neill is responsible for us being bottom of the league? Ha!

No. But it's the kind of signing that he made repeatedly that ultimately started this whole shitstorm. Beye, Shorey, L. Young for example.

Our current league position has nothing to do with him directly.
Given that during his tenure he wouldn't countenance any other influence within the club in addition to manager he was de-facto CEO, regardless of any other names floating about, until the day Faulkner called him out. That makes him partly responsible for the shitty, unsustainable state our finances were in.
How we dealt with the mess is another story, but he certainly had a role in kickstarting all of this.

Charles N'zogbia, Shay Given, Darren Bent, Jean II Makoun, Ron Vlaar. As has been said over the last few weeks. We've had money to spend, it's been spent appallingly by poor managers. How much value did we get from the above on the pitch and in terms of transfer return?

It's ludicrous to even mention MON 5 years after he left as someone to blame. That we haven't got over it is more the club's problem than his. We finished 9th, sold two of the three best players in the squad the summer after he left. Since he left, only Benteke has been bought that has anywhere near wiped his face in terms of fee received and return on the pitch. None of the others have, or are likely too.

I agree that we've been managed appallingly, I'd say from the day Lerner got the keys to Villa Park.

From the above list I'd say we got reasonable value from Bent and Vlaar for their contribution to keeping us up in their respective first 2 seasons. You could make an argument for Given earning at least some of his value with his contribution to keeping us up under McLeish. A couple of saves at the Sandwell Truck Stop immediately spring to mind.

It's not  ludicrous to mention MON when the point was that the shit storm started when Faulkner called him out on flogging a couple of the likes of Beye to free up funds for McGeady and Keane if I remember rightly.  As I said, how it's been managed since is another story, but that's the point where it started to unravel and MON had a degree of culpability in us reaching that point.

[old man villa fan]

Really? Why did we pay Shay given circa 60k a week for 5 years then? Darren Bent and Charles N'zogbia somewhere in the same region? We're they not established premier league players at the time?

I think you missed the word 'good'.  The signing of Given and N'Zogbia was to satisfy a new manager but Lerner new about as much as McLeish on what was required.

[supertom]

Really? Why did we pay Shay given circa 60k a week for 5 years then? Darren Bent and Charles N'zogbia somewhere in the same region? We're they not established premier league players at the time?

I think you missed the word 'good'.  The signing of Given and N'Zogbia was to satisfy a new manager but Lerner new about as much as McLeish on what was required.

Well that's the fault of those managers and our scouting. MON didn't drain the well completely dry and I don't think we can carry on blaming him. We've had more money than other clubs in this division. Our wage bill has remained higher than many others. We've just mis-spent. We're reportedly paying Traore a lot of money. Some of those French lads won't be on peanuts either. We're not the only club who doesn't go and hand out 100k a week contracts to top names, but I think we could have spent our money wislier and perhaps tempted better players in. We could have gone for qaulity over quantity.
The other thing is also our position. We've been so unerringly wretched that it's probably been hard to attract players here who don't have a fatal flaw. That might be for example a Lescott who is a big name player but is 33, or Richards who has a big reputation but had played fuck all in the previous 2 years.
The money has been there to sign "good" premier league players. We've just not spent the money wisely and we've not been in anything like a good position to tempt players. We've been linked with plenty of names over the last 5 years. Players which for one reason or another chose not to come here.
As for this window? How in the hell would we attract anyone here short of doing something foolish and paying double what someone's worth like QPR did with players like Samba.

[glasses]

isn't Naismith exactly the type of mad, overpriced signing MON would have made and what put us in this mess in the first place?

O'Neill is responsible for us being bottom of the league? Ha!

No. But it's the kind of signing that he made repeatedly that ultimately started this whole shitstorm. Beye, Shorey, L. Young for example.

Our current league position has nothing to do with him directly.
Given that during his tenure he wouldn't countenance any other influence within the club in addition to manager he was de-facto CEO, regardless of any other names floating about, until the day Faulkner called him out. That makes him partly responsible for the shitty, unsustainable state our finances were in.
How we dealt with the mess is another story, but he certainly had a role in kickstarting all of this.

Charles N'zogbia, Shay Given, Darren Bent, Jean II Makoun, Ron Vlaar. As has been said over the last few weeks. We've had money to spend, it's been spent appallingly by poor managers. How much value did we get from the above on the pitch and in terms of transfer return?

It's ludicrous to even mention MON 5 years after he left as someone to blame. That we haven't got over it is more the club's problem than his. We finished 9th, sold two of the three best players in the squad the summer after he left. Since he left, only Benteke has been bought that has anywhere near wiped his face in terms of fee received and return on the pitch. None of the others have, or are likely too.

I agree that we've been managed appallingly, I'd say from the day Lerner got the keys to Villa Park.

From the above list I'd say we got reasonable value from Bent and Vlaar for their contribution to keeping us up in their respective first 2 seasons. You could make an argument for Given earning at least some of his value with his contribution to keeping us up under McLeish. A couple of saves at the Sandwell Truck Stop immediately spring to mind.

It's not  ludicrous to mention MON when the point was that the shit storm started when Faulkner called him out on flogging a couple of the likes of Beye to free up funds for McGeady and Keane if I remember rightly.  As I said, how it's been managed since is another story, but that's the point where it started to unravel and MON had a degree of culpability in us reaching that point.

I'd argue Shorey and Luke Young did as much for the club as Given and Vlaar. All not very much, but did we not get fees back for Shorey and Young too? How much did we get back for Given and Vlaar?

I honestly think MON walking out stopped affecting us at the point we finished 9th, having bought Bent in January. Or it should have. The fuckwittery of Faulkner and Lerner took over then.

[glasses]

Really? Why did we pay Shay given circa 60k a week for 5 years then? Darren Bent and Charles N'zogbia somewhere in the same region? We're they not established premier league players at the time?

I think you missed the word 'good'.  The signing of Given and N'Zogbia was to satisfy a new manager but Lerner new about as much as McLeish on what was required.

It's easy to say that in retrospect. At the time, there were people on heroes and villains that thought N'zogbia was an upgrade on Young, and that Shay Given was still a class keeper. My point was more that we could still afford to pay them big wages, so MON can't have crippled the wage bill that much.

[pauliewalnuts]

Bit harsh on Luke Young - started 75 matches in three seasons.

[supertom]

Bit harsh on Luke Young - started 75 matches in three seasons.

And for the most part was generally solid. He's comfortably the best right back we've had since Delaney and to be honest is probably pushing for best left back since Freddie (given we've not seen enough of Amavi yet sadly). I think he worked out to be a decent signing, albeit overpriced.

[glasses]

Bit harsh on Luke Young - started 75 matches in three seasons.

And for the most part was generally solid. He's comfortably the best right back we've had since Delaney and to be honest is probably pushing for best left back since Freddie (given we've not seen enough of Amavi yet sadly). I think he worked out to be a decent signing, albeit overpriced.

He was only overpriced because of what he went for the year before. 5 and a bit million wasn't a huge fee for someone who like you say was a mostly solid premier league player. Did we get a fee when he left? Can't remember.

[auntiesledd]

I suspect that many were along the right lines when they claimed we should plan for the Championship - that seems to be how the club see our chances. We're nine points from safety, which is doable if not likely, but there hasn't been much enthusiasm to try and cut that gap by doing anything other than letting Garde get on with it with what he has. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that the signing policy is so short-term that any additions won't be joining us on our trips to the Banks's and the Sty.

isn't Naismith exactly the type of mad, overpriced signing MON would have made and what put us in this mess in the first place?

O'Neill is responsible for us being bottom of the league? Ha!

No. But it's the kind of signing that he made repeatedly that ultimately started this whole shitstorm. Beye, Shorey, L. Young for example.

Our current league position has nothing to do with him directly.
Given that during his tenure he wouldn't countenance any other influence within the club in addition to manager he was de-facto CEO, regardless of any other names floating about, until the day Faulkner called him out. That makes him partly responsible for the shitty, unsustainable state our finances were in.
How we dealt with the mess is another story, but he certainly had a role in kickstarting all of this.

Charles N'zogbia, Shay Given, Darren Bent, Jean II Makoun, Ron Vlaar. As has been said over the last few weeks. We've had money to spend, it's been spent appallingly by poor managers. How much value did we get from the above on the pitch and in terms of transfer return?

It's ludicrous to even mention MON 5 years after he left as someone to blame. That we haven't got over it is more the club's problem than his. We finished 9th, sold two of the three best players in the squad the summer after he left. Since he left, only Benteke has been bought that has anywhere near wiped his face in terms of fee received and return on the pitch. None of the others have, or are likely too.

The reason why we haven't been able to sign good established PL players (other than Bent) over the last 5 years is because of the wages legacy left by MON which just about crippled us.

So absolutely nothing to do with our wonderful owner pulling the spending plug; sanctioning the flogging-off of any quality players we've had & replacing them with cheapo options; employing a succession of poor managers & inadequate chancers in key positions at the club; being a self-styled 'custodian' of our historic club & hiding in silence on t'other side of the pond...etc...etc ?

I'm glad it's nothing to do with Uncle Randolph, otherwise we might really be in the shite.

[Dante Lavelli]

Without wishing to turn this into another MON debate, one thing he did do in his time at the club was make any sort of DoF/CEO role impossible.  Randy, being the bloke he is, took MON's actions at face value and subsequently we spent the best part of 5 years with our destiny solely in the hands of a bunch of manager seemingly selected at random.

So whilst his transfer approach was, at best, blinkered he also restricted our prospects moving forward by making sure that he was 'the' authority at the club leaving a vacuum when he left.