Remi Garde - Departs Aston Villa

[themossman]

I think we needed a certain kind of manager, one who was very different from Lambert and could get an instant reaction from the players. For me Tim was as good as anyone around for that job. It's in the realms of the unknowable but I also suspect a better long term manager trying to address some of the bigger issues might have failed at the immediate task of keeping us in the league. It's also unfair to point at results like Southampton when we are already safe and focused on a cup final.

When we played Southampton we weren't safe from relegation. If the excuse is that our minds were on the cup final, then it's yet more evidence of bad management. They shouldn't have been when it was still possible for us to go down. And yes, another manager might not have got the win against Everton or the win against Spurs. But then they might have managed to not pick an awful team to surrender at home to Burnley or have been one of only three managers to be beaten by a John Carver side.

And if we needed a certain type of manager to get us clear from relegation and that person wasn't Remi Garde last season why is it Remi Garde now (not necessarily in your mind, you may think that it shouldn't be him now - but in the opinion of the people employing them both)?

That's splitting hairs a tad though. We were all but safe and survival was confirmed the same day. Which would explain if not excuse a collective sense of 'we've probably done enough' that would have been hard for a manager to deal with.

On the second point, my (possibly simplistic) reading of the situation is that a cerebral, progressive manager (Garde) trying to make large scale cultural changes to how we play and train may go backwards before he goes forwards by bumping up against established bad practices, e.g. the Houllier season. I still fear that may happen this season but hope to be proven wrong. In contrast, a cheeky, media friendly motivator like TS may have a better short term bounce but fail in the long term. Ideally TS would have been given a short term contract and booted out in the summer with a big thanks for everything, but obviously it couldn't happen like that.

Edit - also with the benefit of hindsight it's easy to understate the collective sense of doom that hung over Lambert's final days and the task the new guy had in terms of changing the mood. Hence the outpouring against the bitters.

[Monty]

Garde is an arch-pragmatist, though. It's pragmatic to play attacking football, and always will be while it's three points for a win.

[Desi]

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/11/04/aston-villa-fans-on-duverne/

[Dave]

I think we needed a certain kind of manager, one who was very different from Lambert and could get an instant reaction from the players. For me Tim was as good as anyone around for that job. It's in the realms of the unknowable but I also suspect a better long term manager trying to address some of the bigger issues might have failed at the immediate task of keeping us in the league. It's also unfair to point at results like Southampton when we are already safe and focused on a cup final.

When we played Southampton we weren't safe from relegation. If the excuse is that our minds were on the cup final, then it's yet more evidence of bad management. They shouldn't have been when it was still possible for us to go down. And yes, another manager might not have got the win against Everton or the win against Spurs. But then they might have managed to not pick an awful team to surrender at home to Burnley or have been one of only three managers to be beaten by a John Carver side.

That's splitting hairs a tad though. We were all but safe and survival was confirmed the same day. Which would explain if not excuse a collective sense of 'we've probably done enough' that would have been hard for a manager to deal with.

I don't think that it is - if you look back at the 'Other Games' thread from that day of the Spurs vs Hull match, it's not exactly full of relaxed people who are comfortable that survival has been all-but-secured.

Anyway, rather than their minds being on the Cup Final, shouldn't they all have been busting a gut to make sure that they are selected for the Cup Final? Or at they very least the manager should be making that their motivation, rather than lazily slumping to two shit defeats. If we'd beaten Burnley we'd have banked another £1.2m prize money. That would have covered half the next load of manager compensation that we need to pay.

[Villa in Denmark]

if you go back and look at the state we were in at the time,1  look at the posts including your own about how bleak everything was, the absolute despairing shit hole we were camped in

and now you say 2 there were probably 'many' others who could have got us out of it

I think I will leave it there as someone else has pointed out 3 you are obviously someone who just makes stuff up as you go along to suit your own interests,
I'm not keen on debating things with people who just  4  brush the facts aside as if they never happened

1. I hope you've taken the trouble to find a post of mine that says we were as good as doomed, otherwise, maybe you're making stuff up.

2 There might be something along those lines out there, I'm not going hunting, but my general line all the way through was if Lambert stayed we were down, get anyone half competent in and we'd be fine.

On the It's Sherwood thread on his appointment i said he'd do just enough to keep us up and we'd be wondering how long he'd got left by October or November.  That's not just making stuff up.

3 And as for the "how did he lose the dressing room?" musings, if you don't know the difference between hypothesis (albeit a little polemic in character) and bullshit maybe you can go and share a library with Silhilvilla.  He's still apparently looking up something from the last time he confused some words.

4. At what point have I denied that Sherwood kept us up.  I merely stated my personal opinion that any half competent manager could have achieved the same and any good he did he has more than undone with everything that's happened post Leicester.  On a personal level I wish him no ill.  On a professional level he deserves every ounce of criticism he's going to eventually get for what's happened to us this season.

And taken together points 1 and 3 could be construed to be accusing me of lying.  Can you for clarity's sake confirm that that wasn't your intention?

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Apologies if already posted, but a rarely intelligent article here from BBC Sport.  (Note to the Beeb, this is what transpires when you employ proper journalists, rather than lazy hacks like Phil McNulty and shrieking simpletons like Savage)...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34699001

[garyshawsknee]

Interesting article about 5 things Remi needs to do.

http://www.football365.com/news/remi-garde-an-aston-villa-to-do-list 

[Toronto Villa]

Apologies if already posted, but a rarely intelligent article here from BBC Sport.  (Note to the Beeb, this is what transpires when you employ proper journalists, rather than lazy hacks like Phil McNulty and shrieking simpletons like Savage)...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34699001

there have been quite a few articles now supporting the appointment or at least understanding the opportunity or logic behind it. Then look at the quality of journalist that wrote those versus the ones that have suggested it is a mistake or some massive unfathomable risk. I'll side with the former.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Apologies if already posted, but a rarely intelligent article here from BBC Sport.  (Note to the Beeb, this is what transpires when you employ proper journalists, rather than lazy hacks like Phil McNulty and shrieking simpletons like Savage)...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34699001

there have been quite a few articles now supporting the appointment or at least understanding the opportunity or logic behind it. Then look at the quality of journalist that wrote those versus the ones that have suggested it is a mistake or some massive unfathomable risk. I'll side with the former.

Couldn't agree more.  You only need to look at the levels of research done by the writers in question; the ones who are in favour of this appointment have eloquently shown their working-out.  They patently know their subject and have bothered to do homework that extends beyond soaking up the banter on MOTD2.  It's measured, informed journalism, as opposed to hysterical click-bait.

[mr underhill]

I was half listening to the Talkshite commentary on the Man City game last night and some  knobhead said 'goodness knows how many they will score against Villa on Sunday'. Cheap laughs, and an assertion they may well be true, but he who laughs last, laughs loudest. I am positive that with patience, things will get better.

[Hookeysmith]

The general media sensationalistic reporting does my head in

"Garde bans French in the dressing room" when he has said that all players need to have a common understandable language and as we are in England etc. He also alludes to "team" every time a reporter tries to steer him towards English vs French. Are they trying to cause a shit stir already

[Chris Jameson]

The media have picked up on the unnecessary comments from Micah Richards so are going to focus on the French/English thing until the next grammatical error appears on the club website.

[Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle]

The general media sensationalistic reporting does my head in

"Garde bans French in the dressing room" when he has said that all players need to have a common understandable language and as we are in England etc. He also alludes to "team" every time a reporter tries to steer him towards English vs French. Are they trying to cause a shit stir already

I hope that from now on the manager and all players conduct TV interviews in Esperanto.

[Marlon's Hairy Wood]

I've just been looking at Remi Garde on Getty Images Sport.. after all the Gilets we were promised, at least we'll get some fashion on the touchline at least 

Adidas trainers with his blazer and jeans 

The all grey ensemble   

[themossman]

The media have picked up on the unnecessary comments from Michah Richards so are going to focus on the French/English thing until the next grammatical error appears on the club website.

It's what they do, the cheeky scumbags.