The underlying problem...

[peter w]

I can't blame Lerner. Is he disinterested because of personal problems, sure okay. Has he always fronted up cash and given each manager a more than healthy chunk to spend, yes I think he has. He's written off and swallowed the loans the club owes him to help it out. That's really all I can ask of a billionaire owner. He's an easy target because we all know about him and he never speaks. That's his crime apparently.

For me, our CEO's should have done more. Yes perhaps they should not have been appointed but they are the ones with the day to day running of Aston Villa FC. They, either through inaction or inability have allowed Villa to be in this inescapable rut. We've also had a lot of CEOs and that can't be good for stability or for continuity. More nous on the board at Villa and we'd do better I think. We wouldn't just blindly stand by while everything seemingly goes to shit.

i posted during the close season that I felt ultimately Faulkener as CEO should shoulder a lot of the blame for not reigning in Oneills spending spree which effectively broke the club for the foreseeable future, which is where our current problems really began.

I don't think you'll find many of us who do not agree when and where this all started. The fact that it has caused this much damage is unbelievably baffling. But that was, what, 5 years or so ago? That the club haven't been able to move on from that shows the absolute weak leadership that has been shown. As much as they say to the contrary the owner is absent. He may care, of course he does any upturn of form means money and winning a big Cup Final puts the club very much in the shop window. hell, you may even turn up to the Cup Final. Why not? It's your club.

But the most damning thing to say is that where they may have been able to muddle better through the malaise is to appoint the right man for the job as manager. i think the decision to appoint Houllier, Mcleish (for fucks sake), Lambert, and Sherwood has directly led to where we are. That they have identified these people as the right man for the job surprised me. They are terrible at getting the manager we need in. Its gotten to the point where we dread an impending managerial appointment because you just don't know what the bloody hell they'll come up with.

yes, the fans were in support of Lambert at the time of appointment. But I don't think that swayed the decision to appoint. But, my Colchester mate (who all hate him) said that he'd be found out at Villa so were there any dissenting voices from the boardroom when deciding to appoint?

I remember from Dave's book, which is excellent by the way and I was thinking could do with an update because there's a hell of a lot to write about from O'Leary on,a run of largely wrong appointments and managers who have mostly faded into obscurity, and reading from back then you see similarities, not a solid backroom team, no money then money thrown at the problem but only to read that sometimes that had initial success but then ended up in failure and relegation. The only consistent was a weak or unstable backroom who could only appoint the wrong person rather than the real issues at hand. Then, as now, the rash splash of cash - where ever it comes from - is usually our only plan, as it ever was. 

[claret and blue blood]

Fuck me 5 trophies, league 81 , league cups x3 and that little trophy we won in 82!

[pbavfckuwait]

To me the underlying problem, is that we have no cohesive plan that can be implemented through the club from top to bottom, no (horrible word I am going to use for a football club) corporate identity, what we are good at and there has been a number off the pitch, we know about it but no one else does, because we take a closer interest, but we have and are still especially since Lerner very very poor at getting the message out there.Take the General for a prime example of crass corporate "We care "attitude, until it gets rough, then wham he is gone.

This seems to run through to the identifying and placement of managers, no set pattern of how the club identifies itself, allows for a transfer of dire do not lose, to play for a while then back to dire do not lose and has the cycle started again.

As for what is coming out of Sherwood at the moment, he is a inexperienced manager with a very cocky I know it all attitude, so surely you look for someone at the club, i.e. Fox to say pull it back a bit Timmy boy, it might be how you are feeling but lets say those things at Bodymoor, not on the BBC on a Saturday night when you are still hurting, because there's 30k other Villa fans hurting and alot of them have put up with this sort of shit alot longer than you son.

[brian green]

Amen to that Kuwait. Like most of a lifetime longer than Sherwood has.

[Risso]

Fuck me 5 trophies, league 81 , league cups x3 and that little trophy we won in 82!

The original point said domestic ie not European.

[pauliewalnuts]

To me the underlying problem, is that we have no cohesive plan that can be implemented through the club from top to bottom, no (horrible word I am going to use for a football club) corporate identity, what we are good at and there has been a number off the pitch, we know about it but no one else does, because we take a closer interest, but we have and are still especially since Lerner very very poor at getting the message out there.Take the General for a prime example of crass corporate "We care "attitude, until it gets rough, then wham he is gone.

This seems to run through to the identifying and placement of managers, no set pattern of how the club identifies itself, allows for a transfer of dire do not lose, to play for a while then back to dire do not lose and has the cycle started again.

As for what is coming out of Sherwood at the moment, he is a inexperienced manager with a very cocky I know it all attitude, so surely you look for someone at the club, i.e. Fox to say pull it back a bit Timmy boy, it might be how you are feeling but lets say those things at Bodymoor, not on the BBC on a Saturday night when you are still hurting, because there's 30k other Villa fans hurting and alot of them have put up with this sort of shit alot longer than you son.

Worth pointing out that we now have a Sporting Director / Technical Director / whatever you want to call him, in Hendrik Almstadt, which suggests that there actually is some thought towards football continuity above the level of manager.

I agree, one of the things he might want to be doing is having a word with Sherwood about the cockiness from time to time, it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny and it just pisses off the supporters.

[brian green]

One underlying factor which has not been touched on is us, the crowd at Villa Park.  Ever since MON flounced out we, the fans have had an endless stream of agony to endure. Patience and goodwill have become thin on the ground and, with every justification, our nerves and our tempers are frayed and the players pick up on it.

[Witton Warrior]

One underlying factor which has not been touched on is us, the crowd at Villa Park.  Ever since MON flounced out we, the fans have had an endless stream of agony to endure. Patience and goodwill have become thin on the ground and, with every justification, our nerves and our tempers are frayed and the players pick up on it.

Was just saing in the office I have noticed the difference as we come out of the ground after yet another defeat - people used to be saying "see you next time to give XXXXXX a seeing-to" now it is more "maybe see you in a couple of weeks - maybe...."

Must admit I am just bored now - can't even muster the anger - stopped following the matches when we are away as it just ruined ann afternoon - still attend but keep wondering why as even the entertainment factor is minimal

[ktvillan]

Houllier was different. He struggled at first having inherited an ageing overpaid and unmotivated squad, and he showed a lack of respect for the club and the fans at times.  But let's not forget we finished 9th after looking like relegation certs.  We were playing some very decent stuff by the end of that season and the talk was of bringing in some very promising talent that close season.   He wasn't perfect but it's notable that he's the only non-British coach Lerner has hired and he's the only one who had much of a clue tactically and achieved a top half finish.  Our other managerial choices since have been, to varying degrees, insane, risky, naive, badly researched, and unambitious.    It's the kind of thinking that has some people advocating bringing in the arch űnterPulis Allardyce.  Surely if the net is cast around Europe and beyond we could come up with someone better than that?

[brian green]

You are right kt. Houllier was a good manager.  The only thing he had in common with the other post DOL incumbents was that we took a chance on him. With him we hoped he had a fully functioning heart, the others we hoped had a brain. We always roll the dice and it always comes up Delph Eyes.

[ez]

At Leicester I remember turning to the bloke behind me when we went 2-0 up and saying 'Why do I feel worse? When they pulled one back, you felt the slow intake of breath from the crowd like we all knew what was coming.

I remember a season or so ago, Emile Heskey being quoted as saying the Villa fans 'Don't so much get on your back as go unbearably quiet'. I think my match companion's reaction of 'F off Emile, if you hadn't been so F in shit maybe we'd have had more to sing about' is a fair one, but I also think he is right.

I do think the team felt that from us at Leicester, and I think there is a difference between ' blaming the fans' and saying the continuation of a losing mentality lies with the fans. Look back over this thread and it is about how many years we have put up with this, how every one has had enough of losing and being shit. We have come to expect it?

A few posts up there's something like - Even if we beat Stoke 4-0 I'll have no confidence going into the Chelsea game because every upturn is followed by more shit. That's how we all feel now, it's like we've lost the ability to believe in anything good.

I think the Cup Final really cemented this - more than any other time we've gone to Wembley I believed this was 'our year' - it felt like all the signs were there. It emerged like a beacon out of the shiteness that surrounded it. We were in an FA Cup miracle bubble and nothing could stop us. When that bubble burst, it felt as bad as anything I'd experienced as a fan.

It becomes easier to believe that everything is shit, that when you are 2-0 up, all it is going to take is one goal from the opposition and it's all going down the pan, because believing good stuff is going to happen can only end one way can't it?

I honestly believe that with a change of manager, director, & virtually the entire playing staff, the continuation of a 'losing mentality' might lie with us. NOT, that it is our fault, but that we are ground down by it and struggling to get up. The challenge for a manager of this club, is getting a team to be able to play us out of that, rather than panic when they feel it from us. We have earned our right to be miserable and defeatist, we need a team that is able to rise above that to drag us out of it, not be pulled in with us.


 

Great post Amfy.  Strangely enough, the one game where it seemed the fans didn't believe we were going to lose was the FA Cup semi final.  The support just didn't stop and carried us through, culminating in the famous roar towards the end.  It seemed to carry on from there until our bubble burst at Southampton away (even though the support there was still great considering what happened)

Someone on here once said it's all over for a manager when the fans turn on him. I tend to think Lambert being left in place for so long was part down to the lack of reaction to him on matchdays.

[ChicagoLion]

It is always about the man at the top.

We are here because of string of really poor decisions and the current situation through a lack of a decision regarding Lambert.

Now VP is seen as a place where the fans are easily critical or apathetic, Teams love coming to Villa Park, not the Home Team.

[aj2k77]

We could do with a man of stature, who fans could respect coming in and galavanising the club. Getting a feel good factor going again, a Big Ron. Not more nobodies with 12 months on their Cv or questionable personalities.

[silhillvilla]

I can see Saturday being scarcely 30,000 , possibly 28k.
Interest is waning. Our home form is diabolical and it's not entertaining whatsoever .

[The Left Side]

I think it is a little early to change manager but if it does happen you have to look at what Koeman has done at Southampton and hope a new manager could do the same. If we could get a man of stature as AJ says then we could finally put the last 5 years behind us. Klopp would be a gamble as he doesn't know the premier league but he would be my shout, if we could get him.