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Author Topic: International Rugby  (Read 199886 times)

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3030 on: November 15, 2020, 10:09:13 AM »
Totally agree about selection.

Iím finally starting to appreciate Youngs a bit, but still donít like Farrell at Outside Half

Offline nigel

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3031 on: November 15, 2020, 10:32:23 AM »
England won as comfortably as anyone would expect. Not sure why he felt the need to play Youngs and Farrell in it though, what realy benefit is there to give 2 of the most experienced players in the squad a game when there's no depth of experience in either position? What was the point on a centre playing on the wing when we already struggle picking 2 from 5-6 in those spots. Jones has done good things for England but some of his selection decisions have been shocking.

Without checking, aside from Jamie George, Itoje and Billy that was a relatively inexperienced pack, so and experienced head at 9 was probably essential.
I quite like Youngs, nothing too flash, but still a very good international player.

Iíd have liked to have had Joe Simmonds or Umaga at 10 with Farrel at 12

Offline paul_e

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3032 on: November 15, 2020, 11:54:21 AM »
My problem with Youngs is the same now as it was when he broke through, he takes 2-3 steps before he passes (because he's deciding if he can make a break) which means th 10 and 12 have no space when they get the ball. For me it's a fundamental weakness in a 9 because it forces you to play in a certain way so you become predictable. Just watch for how many times the ball gets thrown out with tacklers already level with him, it forces Farrell into the pocket (not that it takes much) and encourages us to kick the ball away. Ireland and Wales in particular have both pegged us for it at times and really rushed us.

In the pack you had George, Launchbury, Itoje and Billy as experience and in the backs the only inexperienced player was Lawrence, you could easily accommodate a 9 and 10 combo that's there for the experience. Aside from that Robson isn't really a rookie, given he's been the best 9 in the country for the last 4-5 years he should be on at least 30-40 caps, yesterday was just the latest example of why he's still nowhere near that. Jones doesn't trust him and has spent 5 years refusing to give him a chance to earn that trust.

Even ignoring my issues with Youngs and my concerns with Farrells temprament, we have no experienced cover for them (particularly if Ford is now out of the question). An injury to 1 of them would leave us in a situation where we had no choice but to play inexperienced players, with the depth England have available that's a ridiculous situation to be in with our 3 key positions.

Offline Dante Lavelli

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3033 on: November 15, 2020, 12:40:55 PM »
Simmons strikes me as similar to Farrell in the way he is captain and presumably a good motivator.  If he is a better player then you could soon see Farrell replaced, or more likely shifted to centre where we do not look as blessed.

Offline paul_e

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3034 on: November 15, 2020, 02:27:13 PM »
Simmons strikes me as similar to Farrell in the way he is captain and presumably a good motivator.  If he is a better player then you could soon see Farrell replaced, or more likely shifted to centre where we do not look as blessed.

I'm not sure about Simmons, he reminds me a lot of Myler in that he does all the basic things well and, with a massive dominant pack in front of him, that's enough to look a great player at times but I don't think he has the bit of brilliance you need to win a game on his own. Smith and Umaga should both be getting game time to see if they can step up right now but I suspect Umaga will be a centre in the long run. On top of that I hope Mallinder can stay fit and get a run in the centres, I think he could be a top class 12 but he's been a utility option too often so far and really needs to be given a settled run.

Offline Jon Crofts

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3035 on: November 16, 2020, 01:48:53 PM »
The travesty of Ben Youngs is that I get the sense Jones will continue with him come what may so that he can beat Jason 'The Fun Bus' Leonard's cap record.

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3036 on: November 21, 2020, 01:29:17 PM »
England just brought all 8 subs on at the same time.
Iíve not seen that before.

Good to see the Forestís own Mo Hunt back playing.

France scored a cracking try just before HT and are still 10-18 up.

However, I think that France should have had a player sent off for kicking an opponent. Not sure why being slightly held is mitigation for downgrading to a yellow card. She was very lucky

Update - another try for France. Donít see much hope for England now

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3037 on: November 21, 2020, 01:40:33 PM »
Now 22-23, great fight back by England.

Offline UK Redsox

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3038 on: November 21, 2020, 01:47:51 PM »
England win it with a penalty in added time.

Offline PaulWinch again

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3039 on: November 21, 2020, 03:58:31 PM »
Mayís second try was sensational.

Offline paul_e

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3040 on: November 21, 2020, 06:22:20 PM »
Mayís second try was sensational.

Yep, exceptional try.

Offline Villa Lew

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3041 on: December 03, 2020, 12:43:40 PM »
Apologise if this has been discussed before, but in today's Mail Clive Woodward is saying rugby's obsession with the box kick is ruining the game as a spectacle and reducing it to a crawl. For the first time that he can remember teams with prime possession no longer want the ball and teams with sensational runners and counter attackers have virtually given up doing what they do best.

Watch very little rugby so I can't comment, but would be interested in others' views.

Offline paul_e

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3042 on: December 03, 2020, 01:37:54 PM »
Apologise if this has been discussed before, but in today's Mail Clive Woodward is saying rugby's obsession with the box kick is ruining the game as a spectacle and reducing it to a crawl. For the first time that he can remember teams with prime possession no longer want the ball and teams with sensational runners and counter attackers have virtually given up doing what they do best.

Watch very little rugby so I can't comment, but would be interested in others' views.

He's spot on. The other day England lined up with 4 kickers at half backs and centres and just booted the ball away constantly, there were 2-3 times where we had overlaps around halfway and Youngs and Ford didn't even look, it's very frustrating because we have a lot of quality out wide and right now they're just kick chasers for most of the game. It's been since France mugged us in the 6N to follow on from SA doing the same in the WC final (by mugged us I mean made mugs of us by not letting us get our backs involved). It's almost like Jones has decided that he's going to avoid being overpowered by a rush defence by just kicking away possession and hoping for mistakes and penalties. We're little more than Stoke playing for throw-ins right now.

Offline Ads

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3043 on: December 04, 2020, 07:39:08 AM »
But when we're just about the best in the world up front, isn't that playing to your strengths?

The forwards marmalised Ireland comprehensively the other week.

Offline paul_e

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Re: International Rugby
« Reply #3044 on: December 04, 2020, 03:31:19 PM »
But when we're just about the best in the world up front, isn't that playing to your strengths?

The forwards marmalised Ireland comprehensively the other week.

The best answer I can offer there is 'sort of'. We have a exceptional pack, and more importantly whichever 8 start we have 5 on the bench who are nearly as good and another 10-12 who aren't making the 23 but are world class players. Of course we need to make use of that by bullying teams. The issue is that by packing the team with power runners and kickers we telegraph exactly what we're going to do. Knowing how we're going to play and stopping us aren't the same thing so we'll win plenty of games by doing it but if a team gets their defence right we haven't got much plan b beyond 'give it to May'. I'd just like us to look a little less like we're playing NFL style planned moves for the first 3-4 phases of every attack because right now we're taking some very good, instinctive players and turning them into robots.

 


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